I can't believe what I read in the last OSM magazine. The statement was that aftermarket exhaust was illegal?? I need verification but I was always on the understanding that as long as the decibel or noise level was within a certain range that it was ok!! Shit if thats the case what about all these Harleys and the fags &the fairies cars with the big pipe !!Please comment, Henn, we need a cop's input! Where are you?? :doh: :banghead: :help:

The way it states is that a muffler is meant to "muffle" the noise, an aftermarket muffler/exhaust/can that makes it louder is illegal, thats why all the kids with the fart mufflers are getting ticketed, and thats why sled get ticketed...thats it, if it dont muffle, you can get a ticket..

Oh by the way...harley with aftermarkets are illegal too...ive seen many tickies past out for that

So no decibel limit ??? :beerchug:

I think it's either 80 or 85 Db. You would have to check what the manufacturer limits are and be the same or quieter.

I'm not saying that you have loud pipes but I will say I'm glad that they are ticketing all the guys out there with pipes and loud sleds. If you can hear them coming from 10 miles away then something is wrong. :help:

As for the Harley owners with straight pipes :frech32: :frech32: The cops need to be handing out even MORE tickets to these ass holes!! :banghead:

Here's another question for henn, if I'm running pipes that are very close to stock and i get stopped do i have to comply with the request.I've heard from a couple of OPP that if I'm polite and say that I do not wish to comply and as long as I'm carrying all documents (lic,ins,trail pass) there's not much they can do.So whats the real deal? :banghead:

My guess is if it's noticeably louder they will probably give you the ticket and you will have to fight it out later in court (their court location) if you want to.

I'm willing to bet that in most cases it's up to the discresion of the officer, so if you want to take the chance then by all means, but don't say you weren't warned before hand
Cheers, KEVO

A freind with a F-III with stingers was fined and had to reinstall stock exhaust to get his license back (plate).

The Motorized Snow Vehicles Act of Ontario outlaws modifying exhaust systems. The process is simple, either the exhaust is stock or modified. Nothing to do with decibels. A few years ago all manufacturers started stamping SAE certification on the exhaust systems to assist law enforcement agencies in verifying if exhaust systems are stock or not.

that sucks!
I saw this in the latest osm and thought it was a bit overboard. There is a definite image associated with loud vs stock. its like "performance vs. 2-upper" not that I agree with this or not but it is a common preception. I have a trail can on mine nice "BRAAAAAAAAP", but not overly loud. I'm debating going back to stock this winter, but the stock thing is a suitcase . I ride from a residential area with no sledheads nearby and no one has ever said anything to me. My neighbour across the street says he can't even here it and that his stock honda v-twin (harley style crusier) is louder. I and i go sledding 3-4 times a week. I lay off the throttle when close of course, but the bottom line is BRAAAP responsibly. Though its always nice to have a voice when you need to get a point across. Also if you ride agressively and you pass people now and then it gives them some warning when you cruise by. my 2 cents.

All I have too say is ...."Remember..... Loud sleds close trails." Quebec last winter is one point in case. I love the BRAAAAAAP as much as the next....but if it comes down to closing the trails...... I can live without it.

:wut60: Well Mr Burns: Stock Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wut60:

In Ontariariario all modifications are illegal.
Technically, even reeds are illegal. Exhaust just gets the most attention because of the annoyance factor and it's easy to identify at trailside checkpoints.

FYI, same for cars and bikes. Ultimately your insurance coverage could be void if you have any aftermarket components installed. If you have an accident and the police throw the book at you your insurance company could hang you out to dry.


Ricers beware!

All modifications are not illegal in Ontario so long as they are CARB certified and it passes an emissions test. The problem is that if you do modify your vehicle you are supposed to tell your insurance company. Pretty much no one does.

I realize what the Motorized Snow Vehicle Act states, this is just another case of easy money.

My biggest beef with this issue is the fact that I can be ticketed for an "illegal" exhaust, however I can buy this "illegal" exhaust at many many locations.

Typical governement fashion, they'll collect GST from business'es on products, and they'll take my money for having "illegal" exhaust.

it's all bullshit, however I agree if they are actually the cause of closing trails, then take em off.

All right here is another one,My trucks exhaust rots I dont go back to a ford dealer I go to speedy or any muffler shop .Its after market exhaust not OEM ,but the decibles ar the same .I think I'm going to use this in court this year because if we can do this on our vehicles we shuold be able to do ths on our sleds.And don't give me this about the MSV act, it says hollywood pipes another out of date ,out of touch law.If I can buy a SLP pipe for my fusion which last years Db levels were so close to stock and SLP is going to put out these ratings ,how can a court up hold a charge .Would they be willing to set precident agaist every single muffler shop in Ontario!

I was stopped and told by an opp officer that the stock muffler can be replaced with an aftermarket can as long as its not louder than the stock unit.

Go go STEVIE WONDER nice posts. $2000 worth of work still won't get that vibrator going any faster than the 800X. See you at the snowmoblie show friday night!

Yes it is true in Quebec. I was stopped pulling into a relay last winter. They had me lift my hood and then asked if it was stock or aftermark? I have a dyno port pipe and can that is with in the Decipal level. They told me it was illegal to have any aftermark muffler systems at all. They were club members and could not issue me a ticket, but right after that it appeared to me someone was going inside to call the police so I was not going to stick around and find out. It is also on the FCMQ website. I looked it up last winter after this happened.

I guess it does depend on who you get stopped by then.If its not really loud they will probably leave you alone.I have a mbrp race can on my viper and have been thru at least 5 check points and they never questioned me about it.It has a nice low tone to it at low speeds but when your on the gas its pretty loud,but i dont think its too loud.

This is the whole problem, somebody mentioned above about getting your vehicle exhaust from Speedy vs say Chrysler, I think the key here is noise, they are most likely centreing in on this point.

I'd be surprised if some officers could tell the difference from stock or not except for the noise factor, We all know how ignorant the insurance companies are, why should we hold the government and their officers any higher????

You Guys with Aftermarket Pipes Kill me!! Please get it through your head that loud sleds close trails and are terrible for our sport!!

A few points you should learn:

1. The Highway Traffic Act as it pertains to Automobiles has NOTHING to do with sleds. The Highway Traffic Act specifically EXCLUDES Motorized Snow Vehicles! Sleds are governed by the Motorized Snow Vehicle Act.

From the Highway Traffic Act: - Section 1: “motor vehicle” includes an automobile, motorcycle, motor assisted bicycle unless otherwise indicated in this Act, and any other vehicle propelled or driven otherwise than by muscular power, but does not include a street car, or other motor vehicles running only upon rails, or a motorized snow vehicle, traction engine, farm tractor, self-propelled implement of husbandry or road-building machine within the meaning of this Act; (“véhicule automobile”)


Here is the link to the MSVA– read it!! http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes/Engli....htm#P324_34252

2. Any Modification of an exhaust is against the rules and will get you a ticket – period!! See section 18! There is NO Decibel test!

3. Stop the Bull $hit about Harleys and loud Hondas and GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS – Roads are PUBLIC PROPERTY, Snowmobile trails are on PRIVATE LAND and are a PRIVLEDGE that can be TAKEN AWAY!!

Cut and Past from Act:

Equipment requirements
Muffler in working order
18. (1) No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle unless it is equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation and no person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle which has a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon the motorized snow vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (1).
Removing or modifying any component
(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative. R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

This difference is also the reason why Radar detectors are NOT illegal when used on a Snowmobile!!

If this type of ignorance continues our sport is DOOMED!!

Red Rocket is a little fired up, we understand it has nothing to do with the Automobile Traffic Act, all people are pointing out is within that act you aren't supposed to modify your vehicle, yet people do, people sell stuff for modification, same scenario with the motorized snow vehicle act, thats it.

And i'd like to add that I don't have a modified exhaust on my sled, it's stock, however i'm an advocate for pro choice, loud sleds don't close nearly as many trails as morons who don't know how to drive and wrap their sled around a tree, then sue the club and landowner because the angle of the arrow on the sign didn't properly reflect the true angle of the curve based on 50km/hr speed limit.

Yes I am fired up! Ignorance that threatens the continued existence of our sport PI$$ES me off!!

Just because somebody sells it does not make it legal to use it on the trails. On your private property or in a race setting sure. It is the old standard - buyer beware. If you are ignorant enough to buy a product that you cannot legally use then you deserve to be seperated from your hard earned $$.

Pro Choice - you do not have any - trails are on private land - follow the rules. Otherwise do not complain when you lose the PRIVILEDGE to trail ride!

Sueing Club and Landowner - Agreed this is a huge issue and needs to be rectified with government legislation that provides protection from liability for the clubs, volunteers and landowners.

There are MANY serious issues facing our sport but that does not change the fact that aftermarket pipes and cans are a BAD IDEA and are ILLEGAL in Ontario.

Well put :div20:

CARB is a California standard. In my limited studies I've not seen anything in the Motorized Vehicle Act making reference to CARB. And it's not only engine/exhaust mods that are illegal.
Suspension mod's are also targetted. Emmision and safety standards both are at stake.

Red Rocket I think you are missing the point ,when pipe companies develop pipe and can kits that are a few dbs different and not noticible and proven scientifically ,because it is their best interest so they still have a marketable product,I have to be told by someone on the side of a trail with no equipment ,just the power to open my hood and say "it does not say polaris ,heres your fine "The facts ,if I have the db rating from polaris and the rating from the company and there so close theres almost no difference,then fineshould not be given.Talk of trails being closed ,how many trails have been lost to wardens because they kicked of the owners or their kids on atv's.You have no right to search my truck without probable cause and you have no right to search my sled

:div20: :celebrating: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20: :div20:
Can you tell I agree with this post???

Stevie:

The FACT is that aftermarket pipes and cans are ILLEGAL in Ontario - PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION! Stop trying to "muddy" the water with secondary issues like trail wardens etc.

The Pipe manufactures are in business to make money, they do not have a legal team to sort through every law for every province and state in North America. They make a product and sell it - they do not state it can be legally used while trail riding. It is your responsibility to make sure YOU are running legal.

Also, we do not need a bunch of OPP officers on the trails with BD meters and testing equipment. It just creates a bunch of expense, workload and crap that our sport does not need to deal with. Not to mention we all know that a pipe or can might sound pretty tame at idle put be very loud at WOT.

Bottomline - put away your ego and your desire to look cool for the good of the sport!

Man, who shit in your corn flakes! :augen41:

Yes CARB is California but my point is that if it can pass there then it will pretty much pass anywhere as they have some of the toughest auto emissions laws. So here's a question, does that mean if you replace an distributor or plug wires or EGR with something else other than OEM is that illegal? I'm pretty certain the answer is no. I know what you are saying though, you have to check out what the regulations say because as long as it meets FMVSS, DOT, Emissions, etc standards then there is really nothing they can say about it. They would not win if challenged in court.

SledHead - I have an idea for you - If you do not like the laws in Ontario keep your A$$ at home and ride the wonderful trails in western New York!!

That's a great idea, lets kill tourism.

We do not need "tourists" coming up here and causing our trails to be closed.

When in Rome!

Well I,m not going to start WW3 over this , and as far as the trail warden comment i was responding to statement that trails were closed because of pipes. Anybody who knows me will valdate the respect I have for wardens volunteers and especially cops.it'.It's like talking politics or religion with your freinds,so I will due as I wish and pay the consequences for it,and at the end of the day I may even buy a beer for the guy that issued the ticket :beerchug:

Stevie:

I am not trying to start a war either. However please stop to consider that you receiving a ticket for running pipes and be willing to pay it may not be the full extent of the "consequences".

There may very well be consequences for the trail network you ride on and the entire sport in our Province. I have been riding long enough to have seen numerous trails closed because landowners get fed up with all the bull$hit - sleds going off trail, litter, loud sleds, ATVs trespassing etc. etc. The clubs have a brutal job trying to keep the landowners happy and the trails we all love open.

Please just stop and think about the larger consequences your actions may have on the sustainability of organized snowmobiling in Ontario. Don't you want your kids to be able to ride on our great trail network when they are your age??

Think Big Picture!! Do your part to keep our trails open.

I agree with you for the most part red rocket.I do run an aftermarket can once in a while on my sled.If im going out at night i always have the stock muffler on.I dont throw my race can on and see how many landowners i can piss off at 3am.My point is you can run an aftermarket can without being an ignorant asshole.

Absolutely,and i do a lot for not only my club but the sport in general.I live ,breathe and eat snowmobiling, just like my father who bought his first sled in 68, and had all of my family involved.By 76 he had 5 sleds(all omc).I make it a point to bring new people to this sport get people who used to do it back.I have no intension of ever leaving this sport.All I'm saying is that common sense be applied and that enforcement isn't blanketed to every sled because cat pipes are louder than anything on this earth(that's not really a bash ,I don"t think

i dont think most aftermarket pipes make much ponies, just make sound, i love the way they sound to but to be honest i would love to have a sled trail run right near my house but if me and my family were getting waken up at 2 in the morning all the time by a sled with aftermarket i prolly would have to say no to the trails too....

I agree totally.But like i said,you can run an aftermarket can and use a little common sense when your near houses or its late at night and not piss people off.

Aftermarket companies can make parts even if they are illegal on trails, because they list many parts as track only or for closed course, if you choose to use them off closed course, its your call.

As for taking on all muffler shops because you bought a fart exhaust there...they do sell oem style mufflers that meet oem standards..its when you buy the fart exhausts from them that you get a ticket..

Id run a can, or maybe a pipe...but I would respect where I used it, I wouldnt be rippin by houses in the middle of the night...BUT!!!! I will also live with the consequences if I do get a ticket.

Henn , I was with taillight the night we got stopped in the bottom of cooks bay ,quite surreal, 2 revs with cherries and the best was that they were carrying blackberrys.One of them thought my licence was suspended and i said I'm not leaving till you call it in. so he whips out the berry calls it in 2sec. later says everythings cool :div20:

If you read the act

note

if you change skis,clutching,gearing etc it is illegal

Another thing the exhaust consist of 3 parts most time

Y pipe(manifold)
Pipe
Aftermuffler(can)

The can is what is usual that 90% people change just to make their sled louder and has little affect on HP increase

The pipe is where the gains are to be made,yet many people never just get a pipe

I will use this example

I have 3 buds that had 2 96 FIIIs and 1 97 FIII

1- pipes and stock can

2- had stock pipes but can

3- had all stock

#1 races on the lake all the time has the pipes for performance,his sled is actually just as quiet as stock

#2-is a Braaaaper, annoys everyone with his constant throttle blipping,and loves the attention

#3-is also a throttle blipper

#1 respect people

#2 and #3 could care less of others and are the ones FN stuff up,because they WANT to be notice

Never had this problem but lets say you have a 10yr old sled and the pipe is worn,where are you suppose to find a stock pipe????

Also some ATV muffler manufactures actually sell QUIETER then stock mufflers aka for hunters

Why can't we get them to make a quieter then stock muffler for sleds

I can see this will be a debate that lasts all winter long :zzz:

Must have been OPP, cause York dont have Revs...gotta love the Provincial Police Budget!!
I love a super loud Braaaaapy exhaust, I just realize its not realistic...

Actually they were south simcoe ,It's funny cause I know a couple of OPP and their always saying"fricken municipal cops have all the equiptment" :celebrating:

They say that and then I see them out on there revs and RXP's in the summer, our big boats is a lot nicer...same with our equipment in the cars, but Id still like to spend my summers cruising the lake on an RXP....AND GETTING PAID TO DO IT!!!
I didnt even know south simcoe had sleds, thought they were too small....

quote=StevieWonder,Oct 14 2005, 09:11 PM]
Actually they were south simcoe ,It's funny cause I know a couple of OPP and their always saying"fricken municipal cops have all the equiptment" :celebrating:

[/quote]

Yeah, yunno they were a couple of good ol'boys we sat around and talked they were looking at my fusion, both guys rode and said it was a great gig getting paid to ride and thet admitted when they hit rail lines they were on the hammer.I still told them I wouldn't trade places with you guys because there's fun and then you have to go to a call where a kid is killed in a car crash ,and then the reality when you go home and that's in your head. None of us have to deal with that

shitty part to the job...but there are lots of pluses...and when everyone calls me an asshole pig, I just think of the good things, like working 4 days on and having 4 days off, which meens riding the trails mid week...with hardly anyone else out there!!!