Full Version: 55 M.P.H.
I was just curious as to what the results would be. I dont agree with NYSSA playing politics and speaking for all the snowmobilers in N.Y.
Anyone who picks YES for any reason please post as to why you are picking yes. I dont want to flame on you but want to see if you make any "good" points as to why you support it.
Do they intend for the speed limit to appy to lakes also?
QUOTE(F7Hooligan @ Mar 19 2005, 08:42 PM)
Do they intend for the speed limit to appy to lakes also?
I was thinking the same. Thats why i said in the other post realated to this I would not adhear to it on lakes. If its a state law it probably will pertain to waterways seeing that the state owns the water. Well they dont own it but the Army Core Of Engineers does but state laws control it's use from what i understand.
I voted yes for other reasons.
The NYSSA doesn't have a choice.
To say no makes them look like outlaw's in Albany and our voices will be ignored.
Albany is where the policy's / laws are made, like it or not, and for us not to have respected ears and voices there they would run right over us.
Yeah the 55 mph limit isn't popular with us riders but how many do gooders would put a 35 limit in like some other states?
If there has to be a limit, I'll settle for 55 over a more extreme limit.
If every rider in NY joined a club that belonged to NYSSA they would be able to plop down a serious number of voters that a politicain would not ignore.
It's politics, pure 'n simple like it or not.
Big member numbers are like carrying a big stick in Albany.
Who is gonna be heard, 20k tree huggers / sled haters or 150k sled lovers? Sledders who vote and pay out cash money into Albany's coffers.
A lot of riders will bitch 'n moan about the limit, but how many are riding around with out reg. or ins. on their sleds also? And what about those who refuse to stay on the trail ignoring the genorosity of landowners then bitch when the trail goes away? I'm willing to give a little to keep what I've got.
Our sport has grow so much in the last few years, and with this growth the percentage of accidents, abuses and stupidity has become big enough to get attention. It's nobody's fault but our own. I don't want to be restricted and viewed like ATV riders have become, we have a statewide trail system, if 55 is what it takes so be it.
The NYSSA doesn't have a choice.
To say no makes them look like outlaw's in Albany and our voices will be ignored.
Albany is where the policy's / laws are made, like it or not, and for us not to have respected ears and voices there they would run right over us.
Yeah the 55 mph limit isn't popular with us riders but how many do gooders would put a 35 limit in like some other states?
If there has to be a limit, I'll settle for 55 over a more extreme limit.
If every rider in NY joined a club that belonged to NYSSA they would be able to plop down a serious number of voters that a politicain would not ignore.
It's politics, pure 'n simple like it or not.
Big member numbers are like carrying a big stick in Albany.
Who is gonna be heard, 20k tree huggers / sled haters or 150k sled lovers? Sledders who vote and pay out cash money into Albany's coffers.
A lot of riders will bitch 'n moan about the limit, but how many are riding around with out reg. or ins. on their sleds also? And what about those who refuse to stay on the trail ignoring the genorosity of landowners then bitch when the trail goes away? I'm willing to give a little to keep what I've got.
Our sport has grow so much in the last few years, and with this growth the percentage of accidents, abuses and stupidity has become big enough to get attention. It's nobody's fault but our own. I don't want to be restricted and viewed like ATV riders have become, we have a statewide trail system, if 55 is what it takes so be it.
I disagree with you based on this. NYSSA is a lobbyist group, more or less. With the numbers and about of cash they bring in from dues and other revenues, their voice is probably the strongest of them all when it comes to sleds and the laws governing them. By rolling over to the politicians who want to restrict our recreation, witout even consulting the majority, is plain stupidity. They could lobby against it. Make it known that it is ridiculous to limit speeds when stupidity, not speed, is the number one cause of accidents and death. The NRA fights tooth and nail against any law which would limit or restrict guns and thier use and distribution, regardless of whether it is a good law of not. They get heard. They may be wrong some of the time, but without them, guns would surely be outlawed by now. Same with sleds. If the NYSSA is going to roll over on every law that the political minority and tree huggin hippies throw at them, then our sport is on the brink of extinction. With all the new emmision and EPA laws and the like, we cannot afford to roll on any law, no matter how good or bad, that would put any more restrictions on our sport. We are slowly restricting ourselves into annihilation. Pretty soon, sledding will be like smoking. Can't do it anywhere. I for one will not support, or support those who do support, this new law. I will not put revenues into clubs or organizations who endorse this new law. I will not register in NY, just so they don't get my money which will help to enforce this new law. It is all bullshit, as far as I am concerned. I will hear both sides, but as of now, I will fight this all the way.
speed is always the issue i think not if i cant blast uver them big open fields at like 100 then that will suck because you know that joe blow cop will have radar set up in those spots i think if they want to cut down on accidents the need to have a drivers safty test a written and drivers test and call it a snowmobile license for everyone 12 and up alot of these deaths are common sense stuff gone wrong how many times ive came over a hill and had some asshole on my side of the stakes and just miss me when in 15 ft or more to the right that is people not thinking but if these same people had to get a license maybe it would help i dont know just my two sense 
well there were no more snowmobile police here in erie county because of the budget cuts so they couldnt enforce it here.
plus how could they set a maximum speed limit on trails that go through private property. I could see in parks. But they cant set a speed limit for the people going through MY backyard.
plus how could they set a maximum speed limit on trails that go through private property. I could see in parks. But they cant set a speed limit for the people going through MY backyard.
Speed doesnt kill. Stupid people kill. People who go out and drink a 12 pack and feel invincible. People who think they can drive just as fast at night or in fog or a snowstorm. People who just dont use their God given brain. Common sense. So the majority of snowmobilers will suffer for the acts of a few assholes. I really dont think the politicians in Albany actually know what goes on in the real world regarding sledding. The only thing they know is what they read in the papers. And the only items you read about are negative unfortunately. The only concern of the State is to make money. How many ways can we take in revenue? 'Lets make a speed limit for sleds and hand out speeding tickets'. Our $45.00 registration fee really helped out the trails this year!! Bullshit!! They were the same they have been the last 10 years. I cant tell you the number of clubs who have still not recieved their trail fund money or all the money they should recieve for all the trails they groom because of idiots running the program at the State. Go ahead, put up a speed limit. Then try to enforce it. I cant wait.
:wut60:
:wut60:
QUOTE(Maydaze @ Mar 20 2005, 02:44 PM)
Speed doesnt kill. Stupid people kill. People who go out and drink a 12 pack and feel invincible. People who think they can drive just as fast at night or in fog or a snowstorm. People who just dont use their God given brain. Common sense. So the majority of snowmobilers will suffer for the acts of a few assholes. I really dont think the politicians in Albany actually know what goes on in the real world regarding sledding. The only thing they know is what they read in the papers. And the only items you read about are negative unfortunately. The only concern of the State is to make money. How many ways can we take in revenue? 'Lets make a speed limit for sleds and hand out speeding tickets'. Our $45.00 registration fee really helped out the trails this year!! Bullshit!! They were the same they have been the last 10 years. I cant tell you the number of clubs who have still not recieved their trail fund money or all the money they should recieve for all the trails they groom because of idiots running the program at the State. Go ahead, put up a speed limit. Then try to enforce it. I cant wait.
:wut60:
:wut60:
Well said my man!! :div20: :div20:
QUOTE(Maydaze @ Mar 20 2005, 02:44 PM)
Speed doesnt kill. Stupid people kill. People who go out and drink a 12 pack and feel invincible. People who think they can drive just as fast at night or in fog or a snowstorm. People who just dont use their God given brain. Common sense. So the majority of snowmobilers will suffer for the acts of a few assholes. I really dont think the politicians in Albany actually know what goes on in the real world regarding sledding. The only thing they know is what they read in the papers. And the only items you read about are negative unfortunately. The only concern of the State is to make money. How many ways can we take in revenue? 'Lets make a speed limit for sleds and hand out speeding tickets'. Our $45.00 registration fee really helped out the trails this year!! Bullshit!! They were the same they have been the last 10 years. Go ahead, put up a speed limit. Then try to enforce it. I cant wait.
:wut60:
:wut60:
Im with you on that :div20: :fluffy:
Is the fine money going to go into the snowmobile fund or into one of NY finest jews pocket?
Hate to break this to everyone but yes it applies to lakes. You can get a permit to run races and other organized events but thats it. I wonder how much that is going to cost? In addition they are going to raise everything so that we provide the revenue for increased patrols. We all know whats going to happen...the straightaways where you get on the sled will be traps and the places where tha accidents occur will be ignored. Deaths will not go down and safety will not be increased...As a matter of fact I think that people will push it in areas they shouldnt because they know there will be no patrols there as they will all be on the straightaways.
QUOTE(bill367 @ Mar 21 2005, 06:42 AM)
Hate to break this to everyone but yes it applies to lakes. You can get a permit to run races and other organized events but thats it. I wonder how much that is going to cost? In addition they are going to raise everything so that we provide the revenue for increased patrols. We all know whats going to happen...the straightaways where you get on the sled will be traps and the places where tha accidents occur will be ignored. Deaths will not go down and safety will not be increased...As a matter of fact I think that people will push it in areas they shouldnt because they know there will be no patrols there as they will all be on the straightaways.
I agree 100% with everything you stated. We will be paying more to accomidate the cost of patroling and equipment, there will be more accidents in areas that use to be safer, and they are only going to patrol the areas that they know will generate revenue for the state. I'm not completely against a set speed limit, but I do think more thought and research needs to be put into the areas that do need set limits. I don't ride the lakes, but feel the lakes should be left alone with NO limit. Now wooded areas and places in town I see no problem with setting reasonable limits.
Eric
I say NO. I guess I don't see the reason that enforcing a 55 MPH speed limit will help. Plus like was said before how are they going to enforce it on private land? I also don't believe it's going to increase safety at all. I think it's NYS being a-holes like usual. I think what needs to be done to increase safety is place HUGE signs at areas where there have been serious injuries or fatalities. Also I think in some places the trails need to be "cleaned up." By that I mean take the trees out that are only a few inches from the trail that could pose a threat.
Seems like they are trying to turn the trails into roads to me. Soon you'll see stop lights or something. One of the reasons why I like to snowmobile is that there are not so many rules as there are on a road. It's catching up quickly though. That would be the day that someone tries to give me a speeding ticket on my own property! The old adage applies: more people more rules.
QUOTE(Maydaze @ Mar 20 2005, 02:44 PM)
Speed doesnt kill. Stupid people kill. People who go out and drink a 12 pack and feel invincible. People who think they can drive just as fast at night or in fog or a snowstorm. People who just dont use their God given brain. Common sense. So the majority of snowmobilers will suffer for the acts of a few assholes. I really dont think the politicians in Albany actually know what goes on in the real world regarding sledding. The only thing they know is what they read in the papers. And the only items you read about are negative unfortunately. The only concern of the State is to make money. How many ways can we take in revenue? 'Lets make a speed limit for sleds and hand out speeding tickets'. Our $45.00 registration fee really helped out the trails this year!! Bullshit!! They were the same they have been the last 10 years. I cant tell you the number of clubs who have still not recieved their trail fund money or all the money they should recieve for all the trails they groom because of idiots running the program at the State. Go ahead, put up a speed limit. Then try to enforce it. I cant wait.
:wut60:
:wut60:
"here's your sign" haha :smilielol: :smilielol: you got it exactly right, it is the stupid people, or should i say the intelligently impared to be more politically correct :frech32: :frech32: thats how everything has to be these days. sure i can see how a speed limit could SOUND good but in realitly how many people are going to adhear(spell.??) to it? you can be sure that the stupid ones that drive out of control and end up hitting trees or other riders are not going to slow down for a 55 mph speed limit, it is just going to make them go faster and wilder in the areas where they know there will be no patrols. also it would be nice to see some of this money from the registrations that is supposed to go to the clubs, get there, unless my local club is just pocketing the money, because the trails here are close to the worst i have ever seen them, and the club says that they don't have enough money to groom the trails.
thats it for my little rant, im out 
I think as we teach in the snowmobile safety class that you need to ride responsibly.
Limit your own speed to the conditions. So if your doing 55 in a snowstorm and you dont see the tree thats ok I guess by the state. I don't think they get the big picture, People
who are getting hurt speeding are going to do it with or without a speed limit. just my 2 cents
Limit your own speed to the conditions. So if your doing 55 in a snowstorm and you dont see the tree thats ok I guess by the state. I don't think they get the big picture, People
who are getting hurt speeding are going to do it with or without a speed limit. just my 2 cents
Why sit back and do nothing?
Please contact Assembly Member Joseph Morelle and copy in your State Senator and Assembly Member. Your State Senator and Assembly Member's address can be found here:
http://www.vote-smart.org
If you do nothing, then don't complain when your car insurance goes up and you get points on your license, because you were doing 67 MPH across an open field or a frozen lake.
Don't complain either, if an environmental group sues and wins to shut down your favorite trail because of insufficient resources for state snowmobile speed limit enforcement.
Also, feel free to plagiarize the attached letter ...
---------------------------------------------------------
Joseph D. Morelle
New York State Assembly Member
1945 East Ridge Road
Rochester, NY 14622
Dear Assembly Member Morelle,
I am writing you to tell you that, as a life-long New York State Citizen and a New York Snowmobile enthusiast, I do not support bill A.3792, which would establish a 55 MPH speed limit for snowmobiles. As I’m sure you are aware that New York State Consolidated (Snowmobile) Law Article 25, Control Provisions, Section 25.03 states “Operation of snowmobiles; general. It shall be unlawful for any person to drive or operate any snowmobile in the following unsafe or harassing ways: 1. Imprudent speed. At a rate of speed greater than reasonable or proper under the surrounding circumstances.” This current law leaves discretion to the law enforcement officer.
One of the most appealing things about snowmobiling, to me, is the freedom to relax and enjoy the scenery and not having to constantly take my eyes off of the trail to monitor my speed. In challenging terrain, responsible snowmobiling requires operator to keep their focus on the trail ahead and other snowmobilers. Monitoring ones speed, rather concentrating on the aforementioned, can easily lead to accidents. I for one do not want fellow snowmobilers concentrating on their speedometers, rather focusing in on the trail and me.
I would appreciate if you could please answer the following questions:
· What is your personal snowmobiling experience?
· Why is more redundant legislation required? Isn’t the current “imprudent speed” legislation sufficient? As there are many situations, on the trail, where a speed of 55 MPH would be fatal.
· Doesn’t current legislation require snowmobilers to obey posted speed limits, even on closed roads?
· If one is caught exceeding 55 MPH across a large frozen lake and issued a speeding ticket, will it go against their driver’s license/record? Will insurance companies be able to increase their automobile insurance rates, because of a snowmobile speed violation? What about for snowmobilers that do not possess a driver’s license, yet?
· Not all snowmobiles sold in New York are equipped with speedometers. How are these snowmobilers expected to comply with your proposed speed limit?
· To what Department of Transportation standard are snowmobile speedometers calibrated?
· If insufficient resources are available for enforcement of your proposed legislation, will it be possible for special interest groups to close roads, trails, and lakes to snowmobiles, via lawsuit, until said resources for enforcement are in place?
I appreciate your concern for snowmobilers’ safety, but all too often we think that just adding more laws will be the solution. I do believe mandatory snowmobile safety training and licensing would be a better solution, thus leading to safer snowmobiling for all, rather than just another law issuing a state wide speed limit.
I will wait for your responses.
Sincerely,
Please contact Assembly Member Joseph Morelle and copy in your State Senator and Assembly Member. Your State Senator and Assembly Member's address can be found here:
http://www.vote-smart.org
If you do nothing, then don't complain when your car insurance goes up and you get points on your license, because you were doing 67 MPH across an open field or a frozen lake.
Don't complain either, if an environmental group sues and wins to shut down your favorite trail because of insufficient resources for state snowmobile speed limit enforcement.
Also, feel free to plagiarize the attached letter ...
---------------------------------------------------------
Joseph D. Morelle
New York State Assembly Member
1945 East Ridge Road
Rochester, NY 14622
Dear Assembly Member Morelle,
I am writing you to tell you that, as a life-long New York State Citizen and a New York Snowmobile enthusiast, I do not support bill A.3792, which would establish a 55 MPH speed limit for snowmobiles. As I’m sure you are aware that New York State Consolidated (Snowmobile) Law Article 25, Control Provisions, Section 25.03 states “Operation of snowmobiles; general. It shall be unlawful for any person to drive or operate any snowmobile in the following unsafe or harassing ways: 1. Imprudent speed. At a rate of speed greater than reasonable or proper under the surrounding circumstances.” This current law leaves discretion to the law enforcement officer.
One of the most appealing things about snowmobiling, to me, is the freedom to relax and enjoy the scenery and not having to constantly take my eyes off of the trail to monitor my speed. In challenging terrain, responsible snowmobiling requires operator to keep their focus on the trail ahead and other snowmobilers. Monitoring ones speed, rather concentrating on the aforementioned, can easily lead to accidents. I for one do not want fellow snowmobilers concentrating on their speedometers, rather focusing in on the trail and me.
I would appreciate if you could please answer the following questions:
· What is your personal snowmobiling experience?
· Why is more redundant legislation required? Isn’t the current “imprudent speed” legislation sufficient? As there are many situations, on the trail, where a speed of 55 MPH would be fatal.
· Doesn’t current legislation require snowmobilers to obey posted speed limits, even on closed roads?
· If one is caught exceeding 55 MPH across a large frozen lake and issued a speeding ticket, will it go against their driver’s license/record? Will insurance companies be able to increase their automobile insurance rates, because of a snowmobile speed violation? What about for snowmobilers that do not possess a driver’s license, yet?
· Not all snowmobiles sold in New York are equipped with speedometers. How are these snowmobilers expected to comply with your proposed speed limit?
· To what Department of Transportation standard are snowmobile speedometers calibrated?
· If insufficient resources are available for enforcement of your proposed legislation, will it be possible for special interest groups to close roads, trails, and lakes to snowmobiles, via lawsuit, until said resources for enforcement are in place?
I appreciate your concern for snowmobilers’ safety, but all too often we think that just adding more laws will be the solution. I do believe mandatory snowmobile safety training and licensing would be a better solution, thus leading to safer snowmobiling for all, rather than just another law issuing a state wide speed limit.
I will wait for your responses.
Sincerely,
Sent one to my areas assembly member. Got this nice letter within 2 seconds from her too! Good to see she cares :wut60:
Thank you for your recent Internet message. I appreciate and
encourage your initiative and participation in the legislative
process.
However, due to the volume of Internet e-mail my office
receives, I am not always able to provide individual responses.
To enable my office to better respond to your concerns, ideas
and suggestions, or to provide issue-related or regional
information that may be of interest to you, please be sure to
include your name, postal mailing address and telephone number in
your message. If you have already done so, thank you.
You can contact my Capitol or district office by mail or
telephone at:
LOB 546 5763 Seneca St.
Albany, NY 12248 Suite 400
(518) 455-4601 Elma, NY 14059
(716) 675-7170
We will see if I ever get a email repsonse.... :cn:
Thank you for your recent Internet message. I appreciate and
encourage your initiative and participation in the legislative
process.
However, due to the volume of Internet e-mail my office
receives, I am not always able to provide individual responses.
To enable my office to better respond to your concerns, ideas
and suggestions, or to provide issue-related or regional
information that may be of interest to you, please be sure to
include your name, postal mailing address and telephone number in
your message. If you have already done so, thank you.
You can contact my Capitol or district office by mail or
telephone at:
LOB 546 5763 Seneca St.
Albany, NY 12248 Suite 400
(518) 455-4601 Elma, NY 14059
(716) 675-7170
We will see if I ever get a email repsonse.... :cn:
I support the 55 MPH law. Originally from Rochester now living NH I used to love to ride in the Old Forge but I got sick of people riding way out of control, IE speed. Snocross wanta bees are ruining this sport. Thank god I now live in NH and don't have to deal with this problem anymore. I mean we still have snocross wanta bees but not as bad as NY. You guys really need this law to improve safety.
Yes and No.
It's going to be a law that's not going to be enforced much but it's there when they want it.
The answer at the forum was no enforcement on the waterways as they are not funded trails across the water. 15' off the trail is also not enforceable. Private land is still a gray issue.
The speed limit was coming reguardless of NYSSA's support or not. And it might have been 35 if it's shoved down your throat.
Will it save live's? NO
Is it enforceable? Only when they choose. All truck trails on state land already have a 25 mph speed limit. Not many tickets issued in these areas this year.
Bottom line is if your not much will change. But if your speeding and out of control it will be easy to write a ticket. The nut cases will run from the law and create more problems but they are already a problem so. And Matt will probably crash again next year and think hard about taking up chess. :div20:
It's going to be a law that's not going to be enforced much but it's there when they want it.
The answer at the forum was no enforcement on the waterways as they are not funded trails across the water. 15' off the trail is also not enforceable. Private land is still a gray issue.
The speed limit was coming reguardless of NYSSA's support or not. And it might have been 35 if it's shoved down your throat.
Will it save live's? NO
Is it enforceable? Only when they choose. All truck trails on state land already have a 25 mph speed limit. Not many tickets issued in these areas this year.
Bottom line is if your not much will change. But if your speeding and out of control it will be easy to write a ticket. The nut cases will run from the law and create more problems but they are already a problem so. And Matt will probably crash again next year and think hard about taking up chess. :div20:
We've had speed limits here for a few years and it hasn't been a problem or a big deal. We have only slightly changed our driving habbits. We learned if you don't go blazing through areas that have high sled traffic you won't get a ticket. I find they watch those areas the most. Enforcement has its limitations. Speed limits also help give snowmobiling a positive perception to the ignorant public that only reads about snowmobiling in the press.
According to the NYSSA rep the 55 mph has been passed.
QUOTE(Maydaze @ Mar 20 2005, 02:44 PM)
Speed doesnt kill. Stupid people kill. People who go out and drink a 12 pack and feel invincible. People who think they can drive just as fast at night or in fog or a snowstorm. People who just dont use their God given brain. Common sense. So the majority of snowmobilers will suffer for the acts of a few assholes. I really dont think the politicians in Albany actually know what goes on in the real world regarding sledding. The only thing they know is what they read in the papers. And the only items you read about are negative unfortunately. The only concern of the State is to make money. How many ways can we take in revenue? 'Lets make a speed limit for sleds and hand out speeding tickets'. Our $45.00 registration fee really helped out the trails this year!! Bullshit!! They were the same they have been the last 10 years. I cant tell you the number of clubs who have still not recieved their trail fund money or all the money they should recieve for all the trails they groom because of idiots running the program at the State. Go ahead, put up a speed limit. Then try to enforce it. I cant wait.
:wut60:
:wut60:
i totally agree
here in NH the speedlimit is 45 and it is a huge pain in the but because some of the trails you can doubble that so you are trying to keep your self slow enough which has you looking down instead of ahead and i think thats more unsafe....
we are out there for fun not to support the goverment with tickets
55 mph support only passed the NYSSA's delegates at the forum. The whole SRRA bill needs to be voted on in the Assembly and the Senate to "pass".
QUOTE(snowmoNH @ Apr 14 2005, 07:15 AM)
I support the 55 MPH law. Originally from Rochester now living NH I used to love to ride in the Old Forge but I got sick of people riding way out of control, IE speed. Snocross wanta bees are ruining this sport. Thank god I now live in NH and don't have to deal with this problem anymore. I mean we still have snocross wanta bees but not as bad as NY. You guys really need this law to improve safety.
I think other measures, like better trail signage (across the entire state) and maybe mandatory safety training / licensing would result in safer snowmobling, not a blanket 55 MPH speed limit. As there are many trails out there that would be deadly if travelled at 55 MPH. And the 90 MPH crowd is still going to travel at 90 MPH regardless of the speed limit.
Law enforcement does not have the resources to enforce this 55 MPH snowmobile speed limit. If this bill passes, it will give the radical environmentalists ammunition! They will prove that the 55 MPH speed limit is not being enforced (due to lack of law enforcement resources). Well since this law is not being enforced, they will file lawsuits to shut down trails, until said resources are in place.
Additional regulation always leads to less opportunities and freedoms for all of us.
Although this bill will probably be passed, as few snowmobilers will take the time to write to their leglislators.
Keep in mind, it is easier to prevent a new bill from becoming law, then it is to overturn an already existing law. If you don't want a 55mph speed limit, we need to stop it now before it becomes law. Otherwise, we might as well get used to going slow.
As for not getting involved, I visited the vote smart website, found all of my representatives email addresses, and sent them letters about this bill. If we can get a bunch of people together, we can squash this before we see it on the trails. I used the same letter that Trail Ryder used. Well written and to the point. Lets see what we, as snowmobilers can do.
Fight on your feet or live on your knees. GET INVOLVED!
As for not getting involved, I visited the vote smart website, found all of my representatives email addresses, and sent them letters about this bill. If we can get a bunch of people together, we can squash this before we see it on the trails. I used the same letter that Trail Ryder used. Well written and to the point. Lets see what we, as snowmobilers can do.
Fight on your feet or live on your knees. GET INVOLVED!
QUOTE(snowman1 @ Apr 14 2005, 05:51 PM)
55 mph support only passed the NYSSA's delegates at the forum. The whole SRRA bill needs to be voted on in the Assembly and the Senate to "pass".
He failed to say that it was only at the delegate level. Thanks snowman1. I will inform the rest of the club members.
QUOTE(Trail Ryder @ Apr 14 2005, 08:46 PM)
I think other measures, like better trail signage (across the entire state) and maybe mandatory safety training / licensing would result in safer snowmobling, not a blanket 55 MPH speed limit. As there are many trails out there that would be deadly if travelled at 55 MPH. And the 90 MPH crowd is still going to travel at 90 MPH regardless of the speed limit.
Law enforcement does not have the resources to enforce this 55 MPH snowmobile speed limit. If this bill passes, it will give the radical environmentalists ammunition! They will prove that the 55 MPH speed limit is not being enforced (due to lack of law enforcement resources). Well since this law is not being enforced, they will file lawsuits to shut down trails, until said resources are in place.
Additional regulation always leads to less opportunities and freedoms for all of us.
Although this bill will probably be passed, as few snowmobilers will take the time to write to their leglislators.
Law enforcement does not have the resources to enforce this 55 MPH snowmobile speed limit. If this bill passes, it will give the radical environmentalists ammunition! They will prove that the 55 MPH speed limit is not being enforced (due to lack of law enforcement resources). Well since this law is not being enforced, they will file lawsuits to shut down trails, until said resources are in place.
Additional regulation always leads to less opportunities and freedoms for all of us.
Although this bill will probably be passed, as few snowmobilers will take the time to write to their leglislators.
I'm with you dude. I didn't think about the fact that NY has one of the most controlling governments in the US. Which is one of the reasons you know this law is going to pass. That sucks!!!!
All my buds still live in the Rochester area (Webster, Ontario). I can't believe some of the horror stories they tell me about the cops on the trails. DWI stops just about every weekend and that sticker deal thing. WTF. I have only seen 1 cop here in NH in the past 3000 miles / 3 years. Man I love living here. My buddies that come out and ride call it the outlaw state. Live free or die!!! :div20:
QUOTE(spez @ Mar 20 2005, 12:16 PM)
well there were no more snowmobile police here in erie county because of the budget cuts so they couldnt enforce it here.
plus how could they set a maximum speed limit on trails that go through private property. I could see in parks. But they cant set a speed limit for the people going through MY backyard.
plus how could they set a maximum speed limit on trails that go through private property. I could see in parks. But they cant set a speed limit for the people going through MY backyard.
I am imagining they can if its a state funded trail. And its insured thru the club..
I voted yes. Will this help save lives? Probably not. Some of you may not realize this, but you can get a ticket anyway for unsafe operation, this is a judgement call on the part of the police officer. In today's day and age we are regulated by too many outside forces, so we must put on an appearance to the outsiders and the uninformed. Do I agree with a speed limit, not really, but I don't think we had a real choice here. This was shoved down NYSSA's throat by Mr. Morrelle (spelling). Here are the way I see it.
1. Hal Flieshman the NYSSA president has fought against a speed limit for quite some time, however this time with the way this was introduced there was not much of a choice in the matter. For NYSSA to get the SRRA bill passed this was adopted into it's language. This makes us look responsible in the eyes of the non riders.
2. If this was enforced it would be a real pain, but in reality how many times have you seen an officer anyways. Be advised that the officers don't need to be on sleds to give you a ticket, look out for the car shooting radar at you. In Erie County the snowmobile division will most likely be abandoned, however the police in some of the towns regularly patrol and so do the DEC.
3. As I understand it, there will not be a speed limit on lakes. Lakes are not part of any funded trail system in NY. As for private property, they can write tickets there now, so what makes this any different. If it is your own property or you have permission and it is not on the trail then what can they get you for? Nothing. As for 15 feet off the trail, don't go there... They could write you a trepass ticket then if they really wanted to.
4. In all reality, next time you go riding make a concious effort to pay attention to your speedometer, how often is it above the 55mph anyways. This should not affect us here that much. Yes there are some fields you can go a lot faster in, if it is a seasonal road then the posted speed on the road you must abide by and if it is a forest road in a DEC maintained area then there is a 25mph speed limit I believe.
5. As for NYSSA not voicing the opinion of the snowmobilers, they really are. NYSSA is voicing the opinion of the CLUB members in NY. Do all of the CLUB members agree with this, I'm sure they don't, but if your club represented themselves properly this should have been reflected. I know that the club I belong to asked for a show of hands for who supported this and who didn't. It was then asked for our voting delegates who were to attend the forum to vote accordingly. Of 30 people at our meeting less than 10 were against the speed limit. If you are not a member of a club, then how is NYSSA going to know what you want. If you are a member of a club then you need to start attending the meetings if you don't already, otherwise you opinion will go unheard, plus you will be able to save some money if the SRRA bill passes.
1. Hal Flieshman the NYSSA president has fought against a speed limit for quite some time, however this time with the way this was introduced there was not much of a choice in the matter. For NYSSA to get the SRRA bill passed this was adopted into it's language. This makes us look responsible in the eyes of the non riders.
2. If this was enforced it would be a real pain, but in reality how many times have you seen an officer anyways. Be advised that the officers don't need to be on sleds to give you a ticket, look out for the car shooting radar at you. In Erie County the snowmobile division will most likely be abandoned, however the police in some of the towns regularly patrol and so do the DEC.
3. As I understand it, there will not be a speed limit on lakes. Lakes are not part of any funded trail system in NY. As for private property, they can write tickets there now, so what makes this any different. If it is your own property or you have permission and it is not on the trail then what can they get you for? Nothing. As for 15 feet off the trail, don't go there... They could write you a trepass ticket then if they really wanted to.
4. In all reality, next time you go riding make a concious effort to pay attention to your speedometer, how often is it above the 55mph anyways. This should not affect us here that much. Yes there are some fields you can go a lot faster in, if it is a seasonal road then the posted speed on the road you must abide by and if it is a forest road in a DEC maintained area then there is a 25mph speed limit I believe.
5. As for NYSSA not voicing the opinion of the snowmobilers, they really are. NYSSA is voicing the opinion of the CLUB members in NY. Do all of the CLUB members agree with this, I'm sure they don't, but if your club represented themselves properly this should have been reflected. I know that the club I belong to asked for a show of hands for who supported this and who didn't. It was then asked for our voting delegates who were to attend the forum to vote accordingly. Of 30 people at our meeting less than 10 were against the speed limit. If you are not a member of a club, then how is NYSSA going to know what you want. If you are a member of a club then you need to start attending the meetings if you don't already, otherwise you opinion will go unheard, plus you will be able to save some money if the SRRA bill passes.
Sno Twister...good points. Except 1 thing...NYSSA delegates voted a full month BEFORE the forum to make the 55 MPH bill a part of the SRRA bill. 3 county NYSSA delegates voted against it at that time (WHY?? Because they hadn't had the time to meet with their respected clubs that they represent to see which way they should vote.) The rest caved in and did what they personally wanted to do and did not care to get their club members' response to this issue first.
You are right, it was forced down our throats...both by the liberal media & uninformed Assembly members that want to make this a political issue to make themselves look good AND NYSSA, by not waiting until the forum to let the delegates make the desicion FIRST before making it part of the SRRA bill.
What happens now to the SRRA bill if this speed limit inclusion causes INFORMED law makers to vote it down? We wait for another year to introduce new legislation, heh??
I think these are 2 seperate issues and NYSSA should have made them that way. Just more "pork", in my opinion.
And we do see quite a few officers out here. Now they will be sitting on all the straight-a-ways waiting to catch a speeder. All the while, the fatal accidents are happening OFF from funded, maintained trails and/or on corners. It's not the speed that will kill me, its the corner that I don't see coming up (unsigned??). And that could happen at 40 MPH. Where does this end??
EDUCATION, NOT LEGISLATION!!!!
You are right, it was forced down our throats...both by the liberal media & uninformed Assembly members that want to make this a political issue to make themselves look good AND NYSSA, by not waiting until the forum to let the delegates make the desicion FIRST before making it part of the SRRA bill.
What happens now to the SRRA bill if this speed limit inclusion causes INFORMED law makers to vote it down? We wait for another year to introduce new legislation, heh??
I think these are 2 seperate issues and NYSSA should have made them that way. Just more "pork", in my opinion.
And we do see quite a few officers out here. Now they will be sitting on all the straight-a-ways waiting to catch a speeder. All the while, the fatal accidents are happening OFF from funded, maintained trails and/or on corners. It's not the speed that will kill me, its the corner that I don't see coming up (unsigned??). And that could happen at 40 MPH. Where does this end??
EDUCATION, NOT LEGISLATION!!!!
Snowman, Hal is also our Vice President of our Federation, he was not at the March meeting, but Roger McCabe the NYSSA treasurer and our federation President was and asked for us to take this issue of 55mph back to our clubs then. That was the March meeting. At the April meeting we told them we did and the forum was the following weekend. At the forum it was discussed the formal SRRA bill has not been introduced yet and NYSSA needed some imput. If this was such a big deal, the club delegates didn't see it as such and voted for it. Almost all the delegates voted in favor of this.
QUOTE
A03792 Summary:
SAME AS No same as
SPONSOR Morelle
COSPNSR Christensen, Ortiz, Mayersohn, Gunther
MLTSPNSR Abbate, Cook, Galef, Lavine, Magee, Magnarelli, McEneny, Pheffer
Amd S25.03, Pks & Rec L
Establishes a maximum speed limit of 55 mph for snowmobiles, unless
participating in an authorized special event or engaged in emergency operation.
A03792 Memo:
TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the parks, recreation and historic
preservation law, in relation to establishing a maximum speed limit
for snowmobiles
PURPOSE OR GENERAL IDEA OF BILL:
To establish a maximum speed limit for snowmobiles.
SUMMARY OF SPECIFIC PROVISIONS:
Amends subdivision one of section 25.03 of the Parks, Recreation and
Historic Preservation Law to establish a 55 m.p.h. speed limit for
snowmobiles, unless participating in an approved race or rally.
EFFECTS OF PRESENT LAW WHICH THIS BILL WOULD ALTER:
Operating a snowmobile at an "imprudent speed," that is, "greater than
reasonable or proper under the surrounding circumstances," is
prohibited. That standard is continued in addition to the new speed
limit.
JUSTIFICATION:
In recent years, high speed and reckless operation have been
significant contributing causes of snowmobiling fatalities and
accidents. It is estimated that one-third of accidents are directly
related to speed. In 1995-96, fatalities reached a record of 21
deaths. Many new models of snowmobiles are high performance machines
capable of travel in excess of 100 m.p.h. As with other moving
vehicles, stopping distances rapidly increase with speed. Cars and
motorcycles are limited to 55 m.p.h., or slower, on roads other than
interstates. Snowmobiles are certainly no less hazardous than those
vehicles, and should be held to at least the same limitations. The
bill makes an exception for races and rallies issued a permit by the
Commissioner of Parks.
PRIOR LEGISLATIVE HISTORY:
2001-2002: A.4916
A1084 of 2003-2004.
FISCAL IMPLICATIONS FOR STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS:
None.
EFFECTIVE DATE:
Immediately.
SAME AS No same as
SPONSOR Morelle
COSPNSR Christensen, Ortiz, Mayersohn, Gunther
MLTSPNSR Abbate, Cook, Galef, Lavine, Magee, Magnarelli, McEneny, Pheffer
Amd S25.03, Pks & Rec L
Establishes a maximum speed limit of 55 mph for snowmobiles, unless
participating in an authorized special event or engaged in emergency operation.
A03792 Memo:
TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the parks, recreation and historic
preservation law, in relation to establishing a maximum speed limit
for snowmobiles
PURPOSE OR GENERAL IDEA OF BILL:
To establish a maximum speed limit for snowmobiles.
SUMMARY OF SPECIFIC PROVISIONS:
Amends subdivision one of section 25.03 of the Parks, Recreation and
Historic Preservation Law to establish a 55 m.p.h. speed limit for
snowmobiles, unless participating in an approved race or rally.
EFFECTS OF PRESENT LAW WHICH THIS BILL WOULD ALTER:
Operating a snowmobile at an "imprudent speed," that is, "greater than
reasonable or proper under the surrounding circumstances," is
prohibited. That standard is continued in addition to the new speed
limit.
JUSTIFICATION:
In recent years, high speed and reckless operation have been
significant contributing causes of snowmobiling fatalities and
accidents. It is estimated that one-third of accidents are directly
related to speed. In 1995-96, fatalities reached a record of 21
deaths. Many new models of snowmobiles are high performance machines
capable of travel in excess of 100 m.p.h. As with other moving
vehicles, stopping distances rapidly increase with speed. Cars and
motorcycles are limited to 55 m.p.h., or slower, on roads other than
interstates. Snowmobiles are certainly no less hazardous than those
vehicles, and should be held to at least the same limitations. The
bill makes an exception for races and rallies issued a permit by the
Commissioner of Parks.
PRIOR LEGISLATIVE HISTORY:
2001-2002: A.4916
A1084 of 2003-2004.
FISCAL IMPLICATIONS FOR STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS:
None.
EFFECTIVE DATE:
Immediately.
Gee, the proposed leglislation says nothing about lakes or "off-trail".
More rules rarely means better. It means less freedoms for us all.
Mark my work, if this bill becomes law, environmental groups will use this law against us. Law enforcement does not have the resources to enforce this 55 MPH snowmobile speed limit. If this bill passes, it will give the radical environmentalists ammunition! They will prove that the 55 MPH speed limit is not being enforced (due to lack of law enforcement resources). Well since this law is not being enforced, they will file lawsuits to shut down trails, until said resources are in place.
Of course the delegates voted FOR it. How could we vote against it? At the March NYSSA meeting, a majority of the directors voted to make the 55 MPH bill a part of the SRRA bill. So, in other words, if the delegates voted to not accept the 55 MPH speed limit at the forum, it would have caused the whole SRRA bill to be amended ...AGAIN! All becasue NYSSA acted BEFORE the forum. Check the voting record of NYSSA's March 2005 meeting and the insueing discussion from the 3 informed directors. Their vote against was not an actual vote against the new bill, it was because they did not get direct input from their clubs before the vote to include the speed limit in the SRRA bill. FACT!
This is from the letter that NYSSA sent to all their member clubs AFTER the March meeting informing us of what "we" we being forced to accept:
"On Saturday, March 12th, the NYSSA Board of Directors voted to include the 55PH speed limit provision in the SRRA bill and directed our lobbyists to inform the SRRA bill sponsors of our position."
I know that our county association meeting was the week AFTER that meeting. This is where all clubs' representatives should have been asked at that time to take this info back to their respective clubs for discussion & then to report back at the next county association meeting with their vote. Then the director could resonably vote what "we", the clubs that he represents, wanted. That's not the way it happened. BTW...our director was one of those lone 3 that voted correctly at the March NYSSA meeting.
"On Saturday, March 12th, the NYSSA Board of Directors voted to include the 55PH speed limit provision in the SRRA bill and directed our lobbyists to inform the SRRA bill sponsors of our position."
I know that our county association meeting was the week AFTER that meeting. This is where all clubs' representatives should have been asked at that time to take this info back to their respective clubs for discussion & then to report back at the next county association meeting with their vote. Then the director could resonably vote what "we", the clubs that he represents, wanted. That's not the way it happened. BTW...our director was one of those lone 3 that voted correctly at the March NYSSA meeting.
Yeah and as we all know the speed limit on roads keeps all the idiots below 55 :cn: Heres the problem, its just going to hurt the people that are responsible. Most take it easy on the twisties and hilltops ect. Ride responsibly. But when they get out to the lakes and open fields a lot like to open it up a bit. Where do you think the radar's are going to be set up? On the resovoirs and open fields. Not on the twisties where blair morgan jr. is passing you in the opposite lane going 70.
I wrote to all my representatives listed on the vote smart website. Today, I received a letter from Congressman Jack Quinn (who is the only one who responded to my letters). I used the same format that was used by Trail Ryder. Here is an attachment of the letter I received (which was personally signed, not rubber stamped). It doesn't specifically say that he is for or against this new law, but he does say that he is concerned with laws being fair and just. Take a look.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
QUOTE(acsnoproracer @ May 5 2005, 05:05 PM)
I wrote to all my representatives listed on the vote smart website. Today, I received a letter from Congressman Jack Quinn (who is the only one who responded to my letters). I used the same format that was used by Trail Ryder. Here is an attachment of the letter I received (which was personally signed, not rubber stamped). It doesn't specifically say that he is for or against this new law, but he does say that he is concerned with laws being fair and just. Take a look.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Is this a NYS Assemblyman or a State Senator?? We don't have a Congress in New York State. Where's his District anyways, I'd like to chat with Mr. Quinn.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.