If anyone has a question about Snowmobile Laws, Registration and or Trail Permit Questions ask them here......

What do out-of-state riders need for Mich.????????

Good question Cat Call...


You need to buy a Michigan Trail Permit ( Can be obtained via the DNR Site or Michigan Snowmobile Association ) or from Most Stores and Sports shops in Michigan. JUST MAKE SURE YOU GET ONE FOR SNOWMOBILES and not ATV's... Some stores have made mistakes on that......

You also need to make sure you have registered your sled in your home state and make sure its up to date.... Having the correct paperwork handy on your sled will save time if you are stopped for sopme reason...... Make sure you also follow instructions on where to correctly place your Michigan Trail Permit....

Thanks for asking

I was just in MI @ christmas, visiting my folks and picking up my new sled.............I had it reg. and insured but no permit! Good thing I didn't get stopped! I guess playin' stupid doesn't work? :beer2:

lol.... Yeah good thing as its a $ 80.00 fine here I think........

MY BUDDY WENT TO JAIL SAT , FOR RIDING ON A IN VALID LIC BULL SHIT,. THE SAD THING WAS WE STOPED TO HELP A GUY WHO RAN INTO A TREE. MICHIGAN

HI LawDog nice of you to do this. My question is do we need to carry our reg. papers with us on the sled or will the stickers be sufficient. I ride in the central UP. Thanks in advance. Ron

Hey LawDog, do you need a trail permit to ride on a lake in MI? Have heard of a bunch of guys getting tickets for this on Lk St Clair for not having permits. Dont understand why you would need a trail permit if you are not on a trail. Any thoughts?

Is there a speed limit on MI trails other than safe and reasonable? What factors do you use to consider reasonable?

Also, while driving through Engadine 3 weeks ago I saw MI law enforcement (on REVS) moving an injured deer that was hit by a car off US 2. The deer was pretty much DOA, but it was put out of its misery once off the road. Was this you? We were getting gas at the Marathon station, this incident had our attention.

Thanks for all your help out there, and for taking your time to help out fellow sledders here.

Dave

Ron....

I think its always good to carry your reg papers with you in a plastic waterproof bag. This helps the officer check your Reg faster.... We can also check through the computers as well.... but recommend carrying the reg..

Dave .....


First of all Great Questions.... Now to your answers..


As far as the Trail permits here is the Law:

Snowmobiles are exempt from registration and having a trail permit if they are:

Operated exclusively on lands owned or under the control of the owner.
Used entirely in a safety education program conducted by a certified snowmobile safety instructor.
Operated exclusively in a special event of limited duration which is conducted according to a prearranged schedule under a permit from the governmental unit having proper jurisdiction.

In addition, a snowmobile used solely for transportation on the frozen surface of public waters for ice fishing is exempt from the trail sticker requirement, but must still be registered.

So if guys are getting tickets then its because they are not using them for soley ice fishing... ..


UNREASONABLE SPEED:

A Person Shall Not Operate a Snowmobile:

At a rate of speed greater than is reasonable for existing conditions.


Well each officer probably has a threshold on whats Resonable as far as speed... Although there is not a posted speed limit some County and or State Roads that the trail utilizes have posted 55 Mph signs... If it is not posted and it is a County Road then the limit is 55. The trail conditions change rapidly up here. and can be a sheet of ice underneath. If a person drifts out of his/her lane into on comming lane then that could be deemed unreasonable speed or even careless. Also driving 100 MPH passed other sledders going the other direction could be deemed unreasonable. Many things can weigh into that particular violation, But it comes down to the officers descretion...



No that wasnt us near engadine.... Thats out of our area.. we primarily work in Luce County ( Newberry ).

Law Dog: Can you explain the reason behind the headlight cover legislation. I heard there was a death involved. But it seems there has got to more to it than that. There are alot of preventable deaths in snowmobiling and I don't see MSA spearheading legislation for things like trailside sobriety test's.

I definately can understand a no cover at night rule or outlawing red and blue lenses but geen or yellow?

Thanks for the job you do. In my younger years I nearly went into law enforcement. I spent a couple of years as a reserve sheriffs deputy and marine deputy in the summer months. Went into military aerospace instead.

We are not spossed to ride on the side of the road here in our county.Well we got stopped 3 times this year by the same dnr officer and each time he told us the same thing.Cant ride go home!!!!!The first time he 2 guys tickets for no registration.Well both of my buddies just went to court last week and both tickets dropped.The sleds were registered he just didnt like us riding on the side of the road.Judge read the little snowmobile book you can get at the secutary of state that says you are able to ride at the extream right of way!!He told the dnr officer that he was out of line for stopping us and should not have gave us tickets.So needless to say the dnr and his prosecuter was very unhappy!!!!!1 for the good guys!!!!!!!1

Hert3....


Thanks for the question... Unfortunately I dont have the answer for you on how it was developed ( Who sponsored it and why ) It crept up quickly and was put into Law March 2004... I personally can say that a white light even during the day is much more visible than a tinted green, red , blue or other color... Sort of like the Daytime running lights on the newer vehicles of today.... That few seconds of being seen may help avoid an impact by being more visible on the trail...

Does the CO need to have a reason to pull over a snowmobile?
I thought it was the same as a car where the officer had to have a reason to check you. I hear a lot of stories where a officer pulls over sleds just to check there paperwork.

Normally an officer does have to show probable cause when stopping you. But probable cause can be as simple as someone placing their trail permit behind their windshield instead of directly above or below the headlight on the centerline of the snowmobile. Some sledders are placing them in the air intake to one side of the cowl for example... If an officer cannot see or make out the reg ( Color and or yr of expiration ) then he/she may stop you .... If your stopped there usually is a good reason.


You will always hear alot of stories about people getting pulled over for no reason. We had a simular situation last yr when people were saying that we were pulling large groups over at a time. What actually would happen is we would pull over one sled and the rest of his group not wanting to get seperated would stop as well. I think thats the proper thing to do ( not leave a man behind ). Just keep in mind there is always two sides of a story....

LawDog do you need to carry your drivers license and proof of insurance?

Does MI allow aftermarket exhaust on out of state sleds??? My friends and I are planning a trip out to the UP for next winter already and my ZR only has twin pipes and a quiet can, it didn't come with the stock exhaust. I rode it in WI and almost got into trouble, but it was just as quiet as the stock ZR800 in our group, so the DNR allowed me to keep riding.

Law Dog is probably resting from a long day of Patrol, hopefully he won't mind me answering.

As of right now, you'd be fine. But the state legislature is working on a Bill for a noise test. A true sound test with a dB meter. Pass by test. Don't recall the details, notes are at work.

If you have a quiet can you will probably still be fine. Details are still in the works, but I am confident my SLP silencer will pass, but it is annoying me anyhow so it may come off. I'll just have to store my oil somewhere else

how much is the fine for running headlight covers?

hey law dog is it illegal to put your trail sticker on the intake behind the windsheild as you mentioned eariler. I have been stopped before with it there and they just looked at it and sent me on my way.

Good question, if the w/s is clear do you see a problem with this? I think about having to replace a w/s and then having to buy another trail pass.

Another question for you LawDog...I hear that it is illegal to cross or be within 100' of open water in MI. Is this correct?

I can understand the logic, but on the other hand I believe that everyone who rides a snowmobile should be familiar with crossing water incase they are ever placed in an emergency situation where the ice they are riding on gives way.

Do you patrol on ATV or bikes in the summer? I have a couple questions regarding dirt bikes in MI.

Again, thank-you for offering this service to us here in MI.
Dave

I would highly recommend that you carry your drivers license and reg.... Insurance is not as important, but if you are involved in an accident it helps us for the report.....

Here is a snippet from the actual Law for Michigan in regards to noise level..



d) Without a muffler in good working order and in constant operation from which noise emission at 50 feet at right angles from the vehicle path under full throttle does not exceed 86 DBA, decibels on the “a” scale, on a sound meter having characteristics defined by American standards association S1, 4-1966 “general purpose sound meter”. However, noise emission from a snowmobile manufactured after July 1, 1977, and sold or offered for sale in this state shall not exceed 78 decibels of sound pressure at 50 feet as measured under the 1974 society of automobile engineers code J-192a. This subdivision does not apply to a snowmobile that is being used in an organized race on a course which is used solely for racing.

The magistrate in each individual county sets the fines, They can and sometimes adjust them. For that reason we do not carry a list of the fines... We just defer to the county courts...

Greg...

A trail permit is suppose to be placed directly above or below the headlight along the center line of teh snowmobile... We are seeing more and more people placing them in vents and behind windshields. If we cannot see the trailk permit we usually will stop the individul(s). If we can clearly see a valid trail permit then we will just wave as you go by ...

Greenteam7,


Yes Ido have issues with it as ice forming or dirt can block the view of the permit resulting in getting stopped by an officer if he/she cannot see it.

Dave,

here is the law as it relates to water.

324.82126 Operation of snowmobile; prohibitions; construction, operation, and maintenance of snowmobile trail; conditions; “operate” defined; prohibited conduct; assumption of risk


© On the frozen surface of public waters as follows:

(i) Within 100 feet of a person, including a skater, who is not in or upon a snowmobile.

(ii) Within 100 feet of a fishing shanty or shelter except at the minimum speed required to maintain forward movement of the snowmobile.

(iii) On an area that has been cleared of snow for skating purposes unless the area is necessary for access to the public water.


Dave... I do not patrol in summer on ATV... Check the follwing web site for that info: www.mi.gov/dnr

And thanks for the compliment....

[quote=Beagle1,Mar 18 2005, 10:58 PM]
Law Dog is probably resting from a long day of Patrol, hopefully he won't mind me answering.

As of right now, you'd be fine. But the state legislature is working on a Bill for a noise test. A true sound test with a dB meter. Pass by test. Don't recall the details, notes are at work.

If you have a quiet can you will probably still be fine. Details are still in the works, but I am confident my SLP silencer will pass, but it is annoying me anyhow so it may come off. I'll just have to store my oil somewhere else

[/quo


beagle1......


I was busy working most of the weekend.... Started out driving out of Newberry on mud, rocks and snirt and getting hit with 6-8 inches of snow while out on duty... Lots of riders up on saturday. We only had one snomobile injury and that was on Sunday.... Trails were so nice on Sunday that I took out my personal sled and a couple of us went to the falls... TRAILS WERE GREAT !!! and hardly anyone on them..... Camp 33 is only open for 1-2 more weeks so i think this coming weekend will be the last.......

thanks for the quick reply law dog. You can see my permit from far away when the sled is not moveing very fast. But when you are going over 25 its gets kinda hard too see. Ill move it under the headlight for next year to help you guys out.

HEY LAWDOG, I SEE THERE IS A GUY IN MAINE THAT HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT A DUI ON A SLED.. DO THE SAME LAWS APPLY HERE FOR A SLED AS THEY DO FOR A VEHICLE? POINTS ON LICENSE ECT......

FUSION4ME....


Michgans Law Has changed ( If operating on a roadway or crossing one ) to .08 it is still .10 on a trail. You can be charged either under DNR Law or State Law Dependding on where your at and the officer. But points apply eitherway along with other sanctions from the Sec of State. see www.mi.gov/dnr then look under recreation then snowmobiling.

Thanks for the question

Lawdog... how often does a breathalyzer machine have to be calibrated? (intoxilyzer ME model 5000)
What does "wet bath" refer to in the breathalyzer world? ..I know what wet bulb would be...

Our laws in maine are .08 across the board..... thanks..

Snowman...

Im not sure what your state laws are in regards to calibration... But ours is monthly.........

The wet test is a test using distilled water and a precise amount of alcohol that is pre measured for the testing process...

that could be a good sign for me as the machine was cal'd 9/4/03!

thanks for the info...

now another question on this matter what if I have my headlight tinted verry lightly yellow green or orange there is no cover and I dont beleive their is a law placed on tinting is there would you be able to ticket me on that ????

Good Question....

Heres what the Law Says...

324.82131 Display of lighted headlight and taillight required; applicability of section to snowmobile 25 years or older.

Sec. 82131.

(1) A person shall not operate a snowmobile without displaying a lighted headlight and a lighted taillight. However, the headlight shall not be covered with a lens cap of any color.


You might get a ticket as the meaning of the Law is not to have a tinted headlight ...

*LawDog,

Is a trail permit needed to ride on a lake? Also, what about registration numbers? My sled is for drag racing only, not trail compatible(no lights, no suspension, loud exhaust). Do I need these to go out on a lake and run?

Thaks,
Harticat

Needs it on the lake as that is an area open to the public unless it is in a sectioned race with DNR permit approval.

NEWM is correct...... If your just going out to ride and test you need Reg and Trail Permit ... If it has Race Pipes on it you can be issued a ticket for loud exhaust...

Maybe I can help a little here. I'm not exactly sure about the DNR's stance on this but ours (USCG) is that as soon as your sled touches open water it is considered a watercraft and needs to be registered as such, with proper MC#'s and stickers. It would also need to have all proper safety equipment onboard (lifejackets, and depending how far from shore, flares, etc)

Are you going to get caught? Probably not, but don't try crossing Saginaw Bay and sink. That will get you a ticket, especially if they have to get you. Trust me.

BTW good luck registering your sled as a watercraft :smilielol:

edit for spelling error

Hi Lawdog:
Is there any reprecussions that you DNR CO's receive for writing false tickets?? For instance, if you write 10 tickets and 3 of them turn out false and get thrown out of court do you risk losing your job?? Also, are tickets a matter of public information?
We have a local CO who is just plain antaginistic (sp).. I know for sure that a number of his citations get challenged and beat in court and I wondered if the court ever gets to the point of no return with dead beat Officers??
Thanks
Rip

Ripper...


A citation or case being dismissed maybe because of several reasons, including the prosecutor may be dismissing it, the judge or magistrate may not find cause. Or the officer didnt prove his case/cause.


If a pattern of abuse or problems show up, usually the courts will let the admistrator know ( IE Sheriff or commanding officer/supervisor know ).

I think that an individual citation is not for viewing, but ticket numbers may be, You will have to contact your local magistrate/judges office to find out what they allow....

We tally our numbers at the end of each season and share them at the snowmobile council meetings here locally and our region. ( Eastern UP )


Our verbal warnings always outnumber our citations......

Thanks LawDog and THANK YOU for your hard work!!
Another not so quick one if you dont mind..
A friend of mine was killed in your area last winter. He was riding with some other friends. They had picked up his new sled on the way up there (he was from Illinios), got to the motel, drank a few (he had been warned MANY times), went out on the sleds.. He took off in front of everyone else and they lost him.. They looked all over and couldnt find him, they went back to the motel and were wakened a couple hours later to hear that Mike had been killed and a Groomer driver had found him... Apparantly he went off the side of a trail and hit a tree.. Thankfully the groomer sits higher and the driver could see down over the edge of the hill - noticed a reflection and found him..
Does any of this ring a bell??
Mike is REALLY missed by all of us.. I know that you hear all the time about drinking and sledding (you are probably getting sick of it) but I want you to know that there are TONS of us non-drinkers/ZERO TOLERANCE people out here that REALLY appreciate all the enforcement you guys can do (and DO) to get control of this nonsense!!! This sounds crazy but could you do us all a HUGE favor.. If you are faced with the choice between stopping someone for a "non-risky" violation (no Trail Pass ect..) and catching a drinker - PLEASE GET THE DRINKER!!!
That may sound crazy but I have watched our local DNR guys sitting at a corner writing the easy tickets while 6 guys are sitting less then a 1/4 mile away having a beer party - and the CO's knew it..
PLEASE dont misunderstand - I dont blame ANYONE but Mike for his death... Just kinda bugs me when I see it going on blatently...
Thanks again for taking your "home time" to answer our questions like you do!!
Ripper

Lawdog,

How about riding in the ditches along a road such as M-134. Do I have the right to cross driveways or do I need to be on the shoulder?



Jason

Anyone ever get a ticket for crossing a limited access highway? It is a misdemeanor but not on your driving record. I have already called and looked it up. http://www.grandbeach.org/temp/snowmobiles.pdf

The ticket discription is, Operated Snowmobile on Limited Access HWY. 324.82119

My question is, did you fight it and what was the outcome?

What if i have to put a new windshield on my sled, and my trail permit is on the old windshield? Do I have to buy another permit? I guess the easy way to solve this would be putting it below the windshield, but that's worse, screws up the paint.

Also, can you have your reg numbers painted on? I have seen this from time to time, but maybe they were out of staters...

Sorry guys... I havent been monitoring these posts... Been hanging around in the Michigan Room...


You cannot transfer the Trail permit.. It will say void on it when you do..... And you cannot put any reg numbers other than the ones the state gives you now...

Hope this helps..

Lawdog,
I too thank you for your dedication to the sport and to this site. Also thanks for taking time to answer our questions. Mine are observations mostly but I would like your 2 cents please.

In my county (Isabella) we called a meeting about 5-6 years ago with the local Police and road commission to get riding legal in our county. Prior to that we had the same problems that some others here have complained about. 3-4 time a year we would get stopped by the DNR and hassled cause we were riding on the side of the roads. Most of the times it was when most smart people in cars weren't even on the roads. We got riding on the back side of the shoulder legal and life has been much better since this happened. My problem is that I notice when the road commission is paving or contracting the paving they now pave to where there is NO gravel shoulder. Also every so may feet along the road they pile up rocks my guess for erosion control. They do this in the ditch and that is what I consider the back side of the shoulder. Are they not leaving themselves (road commission and county) open for a lawsuit when someone hits the rocks and looses control...You have signs all over the county saying you can ride the backside of the shoulder and then they pile up rocks every so many feet.

I also would like to know about children under 18, and is it lawful for them to ride at night with no adult supervision, with or without a snowmobile safety certificate? Also does private property play a role in this at all? I see all kinds of people letting under 18 year olds ride at night and we all know how dangerous sleds can be, let alone at night. Please don't PM or e-mail me with your I've been riding since I was 5 stories....I am just trying to see what the law states on this.....

Quick question...

one: do i need a snowmobile specific license to ride in michigan.

Two: what kind of sleds do you ride on patrol? Is there like a standard sled sort of like the police have Caprices and impallas and such? its just somthing I have been wondering about, the only DNR officers I've seen in wisconsin were pulling tourist sledders over in town with thier trucks...

any how thanks ahead of time!