I figured I would bring up this topic again since some were so adamant with their opinion that carrying a holstered firearm being illegal in WI.
Since the arrest of Brad Krause in West Allis, and Jesus Gonzalez being detained in West Milwaukee and Chilton, then having his firearm seized by the police in those 2 different towns. Everyone was either found "Not guilty", or charges never persued and the weapons returned to their owners. Then the Attorney General sent out a statewide memo to all law enforcement departments clearly stating that Open-Carry of a holstered loaded firearm is a protected right in WI.
Where are all the people that were arguing it was illegal? (Joe, are you out there??)
Have you Open-Carried your handgun to take advantage of your protected right to do so?
Check out this article from Minocqua! http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.asp?Sect...amp;TM=52122.91
There are several things happening in our state lately, and some for the better IMO. We are losing some privileges, but some rights are being reinforced too.
For more information, please visit www.opencarry.org and join the ranks of the many people (including me) that are exercising their 2A rights without fear of arrest or harassment.
All we have right now is Open-Carry, maybe we will join the ranks of other states and finally get out CCW provisions too. I want the option to choose my method of carry depending on the situation. If we finally get CCW provisions, I do not want it to restrict the right that we have had for nearly 200 years to carry openly either.
Full Version: open carry of handguns protected.
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 3 2009, 01:39 PM) 
I figured I would bring up this topic again since some were so adamant with their opinion that carrying a holstered firearm being illegal in WI.
Since the arrest of Brad Krause in West Allis, and Jesus Gonzalez being detained in West Milwaukee and Chilton, then having his firearm seized by the police in those 2 different towns. Everyone was either found "Not guilty", or charges never persued and the weapons returned to their owners. Then the Attorney General sent out a statewide memo to all law enforcement departments clearly stating that Open-Carry of a holstered loaded firearm is a protected right in WI.
Where are all the people that were arguing it was illegal? (Joe, are you out there??)
Have you Open-Carried your handgun to take advantage of your protected right to do so?
Check out this article from Minocqua! http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.asp?Sect...amp;TM=52122.91
There are several things happening in our state lately, and some for the better IMO. We are losing some privileges, but some rights are being reinforced too.
For more information, please visit www.opencarry.org and join the ranks of the many people (including me) that are exercising their 2A rights without fear of arrest or harassment.
All we have right now is Open-Carry, maybe we will join the ranks of other states and finally get out CCW provisions too. I want the option to choose my method of carry depending on the situation. If we finally get CCW provisions, I do not want it to restrict the right that we have had for nearly 200 years to carry openly either.
Since the arrest of Brad Krause in West Allis, and Jesus Gonzalez being detained in West Milwaukee and Chilton, then having his firearm seized by the police in those 2 different towns. Everyone was either found "Not guilty", or charges never persued and the weapons returned to their owners. Then the Attorney General sent out a statewide memo to all law enforcement departments clearly stating that Open-Carry of a holstered loaded firearm is a protected right in WI.
Where are all the people that were arguing it was illegal? (Joe, are you out there??)
Have you Open-Carried your handgun to take advantage of your protected right to do so?
Check out this article from Minocqua! http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.asp?Sect...amp;TM=52122.91
There are several things happening in our state lately, and some for the better IMO. We are losing some privileges, but some rights are being reinforced too.
For more information, please visit www.opencarry.org and join the ranks of the many people (including me) that are exercising their 2A rights without fear of arrest or harassment.
All we have right now is Open-Carry, maybe we will join the ranks of other states and finally get out CCW provisions too. I want the option to choose my method of carry depending on the situation. If we finally get CCW provisions, I do not want it to restrict the right that we have had for nearly 200 years to carry openly either.
Never said I was against it, I said I would like to see better restrictions. Example why:
About a week after the state attorney general said 'open-carry is legal' some retard in Racine wears his weapon down the street, rides his bike onto a SCHOOL ZONE, where he is then harassed by some teenagers because of the gun he is carrying. The man un-holstered the gun and waved it in the air to scare the KIDS away. Not a thing was done about it cause this whole MOVEMENT has law-enforcement so scared of getting sued, we wont even prosecute those that can't follow the law or educate them self on how to safely carry a gun.
Hypothetical situation: I'm in Racine when this idoit starts waving his gun in the air on a SCHOOL ZONE. I'm open-carrying myself, but am outside the SCHOOL ZONE limits and see this happen. With my training, my reaction would be to draw my weapon on the man, yell out 3 warnings "STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN!" If the man lowers the barrel anywhere in my direction, I will fire "until the threat is eliminated." I dont want to start a fight here, but please just think about what could happen.
You want to open-carry, cool. All i ask is, follow the law, educate yourselfs before strapping on a gun, and be safe.
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 3 2009, 07:12 PM)
Never said I was against it, I said I would like to see better restrictions. Example why:
About a week after the state attorney general said 'open-carry is legal' some retard in Racine wears his weapon down the street, rides his bike onto a SCHOOL ZONE, where he is then harassed by some teenagers because of the gun he is carrying. The man un-holstered the gun and waved it in the air to scare the KIDS away.
Hypothetical situation: I'm in Racine when this idiot starts waving his gun in the air on a SCHOOL ZONE. First off, he was attacked and drew his weapon to stop the attack, he was not 'Waving his gun around I'm open-carrying myself, but am outside the SCHOOL ZONE limits and see this happen. With my training, my reaction would be to draw my weapon on the man, yell out 3 warnings "STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN!" If the man lowers the barrel anywhere in my direction, I will fire "until the threat is eliminated." But you would do nothing to help this man against the feral animals that attacked, instead you would shot and kill the guy for trying to defend himself
About a week after the state attorney general said 'open-carry is legal' some retard in Racine wears his weapon down the street, rides his bike onto a SCHOOL ZONE, where he is then harassed by some teenagers because of the gun he is carrying. The man un-holstered the gun and waved it in the air to scare the KIDS away.
Hypothetical situation: I'm in Racine when this idiot starts waving his gun in the air on a SCHOOL ZONE. First off, he was attacked and drew his weapon to stop the attack, he was not 'Waving his gun around I'm open-carrying myself, but am outside the SCHOOL ZONE limits and see this happen. With my training, my reaction would be to draw my weapon on the man, yell out 3 warnings "STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN!" If the man lowers the barrel anywhere in my direction, I will fire "until the threat is eliminated." But you would do nothing to help this man against the feral animals that attacked, instead you would shot and kill the guy for trying to defend himself
I bolded the part that you completely fabricated! it is a complete friggin lie and you know it! I challenge you to find one bit of your complete bullshit, made-up story anywhere to back it up!
The guy was attacked by 4 black teenagers that knocked him off his bicycle by hitting him in the head!! As he lay on the ground he was able unholster his weapon and yell "GUN" which stopped the attack against him by scaring them off without needing to shoot any of his attackers or even fire a single shot. All in all I think the guy did the right thing and there are thousands upon thousands of people that would agree with me.
As long as you are playing the 'What if" game, what do you think those 4 delinquents would have done to this middle-aged guy if he was not able to scare them off by unholstering his weapon? Would he be alive today? would he be severely injured and in the hospital? My guess is that he would have most likely been killed and robbed. by him wearing his firearm that night, he was able to defend himself against these feral thugs.
remember when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
here is a snip from the real story which can be found in its entirety here http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2009/...b9957429120.txt
RACINE — Four teens knocked a 42-year-old Racine man from his bike Friday night. He thought they were going to rob him.
The man pulled a Smith and Wesson revolver from his side holster, pointed it at the sky and yelled, “Gun!”
The four suspects ran, and the man flagged down a Racine police officer.
So Joe, why do you feel the need to lie? I challenge you to link to any news story that backs up your bullshit version of the events that happened.
Sorry about the double post, but I thought about this a little more and it actually angered me alittle...
Open-carry was always legal in Wisconsin, including during the Brad Klause (I may have misspelled the name) incident in West Allis. Those that knew of the law, were educated, and were willing to open carry themselfs, did so before the whole movement of the last few months and the statement from the attorney general. Granted you were harassed by police and individuals that dont know better, you still were within your rights and eventual the situations were ironed out.
Having this right wasnt good enough for some, couldnt take the heat from 'ignorant' police. The system worked, people got their guns back, charges were dropped... NOOOOOOO we have to keep pushing the issue. The State Attorney General had to make a statement so you could feel better. Now every idiot, including those that have no business carrying, are testing law-enforcement everywhere and incidents like the one in Racine happened. KIDS COULD HAVE BEEN HURT/KILLED, why, what changed??? As far as I can tell, the law is still the same as it was before.
Barrack O-dumbass wants to show some prison abuse pictures so he could feel better too, but really, whats it going to change? All the pictures do is enrage people.
Thats right, I just compared some to our wonderful president. You have changed nothing, the law is still the same as it was before, but now there are more idiots carrying then before for the purpose 'because they can, and they know it.'
Back in the last thread on this topic, I believe I said something along the lines of 'this is the price we pay for our freedom,' in terms of the little bit of harassment some have received from law enforcement on the issue. I cant think of one situation where someone was imprisoned for open carry, in fact, I believe no one has been CONVICTED of any crime and all guns were returned or are in the process of being returned. You pick, little bit of harassment or dead kid?
Open-carry was always legal in Wisconsin, including during the Brad Klause (I may have misspelled the name) incident in West Allis. Those that knew of the law, were educated, and were willing to open carry themselfs, did so before the whole movement of the last few months and the statement from the attorney general. Granted you were harassed by police and individuals that dont know better, you still were within your rights and eventual the situations were ironed out.
Having this right wasnt good enough for some, couldnt take the heat from 'ignorant' police. The system worked, people got their guns back, charges were dropped... NOOOOOOO we have to keep pushing the issue. The State Attorney General had to make a statement so you could feel better. Now every idiot, including those that have no business carrying, are testing law-enforcement everywhere and incidents like the one in Racine happened. KIDS COULD HAVE BEEN HURT/KILLED, why, what changed??? As far as I can tell, the law is still the same as it was before.
Barrack O-dumbass wants to show some prison abuse pictures so he could feel better too, but really, whats it going to change? All the pictures do is enrage people.
Thats right, I just compared some to our wonderful president. You have changed nothing, the law is still the same as it was before, but now there are more idiots carrying then before for the purpose 'because they can, and they know it.'
Back in the last thread on this topic, I believe I said something along the lines of 'this is the price we pay for our freedom,' in terms of the little bit of harassment some have received from law enforcement on the issue. I cant think of one situation where someone was imprisoned for open carry, in fact, I believe no one has been CONVICTED of any crime and all guns were returned or are in the process of being returned. You pick, little bit of harassment or dead kid?
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 3 2009, 09:16 PM)
I bolded the part that you completely fabricated! it is a complete friggin lie and you know it! I challenge you to find one bit of your complete bullshit, made-up story anywhere to back it up!
The guy was attacked by 4 black teenagers that knocked him off his bicycle by hitting him in the head!! As he lay on the ground he was able unholster his weapon and yell "GUN" which stopped the attack against him by scaring them off without needing to shoot any of his attackers or even fire a single shot. All in all I think the guy did the right thing and there are thousands upon thousands of people that would agree with me.
As long as you are playing the 'What if" game, what do you think those 4 delinquents would have done to this middle-aged guy if he was not able to scare them off by unholstering his weapon? Would he be alive today? would he be severely injured and in the hospital? My guess is that he would have most likely been killed and robbed. by him wearing his firearm that night, he was able to defend himself against these feral thugs.
remember when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
here is a snip from the real story which can be found in its entirety here http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2009/...b9957429120.txt
RACINE — Four teens knocked a 42-year-old Racine man from his bike Friday night. He thought they were going to rob him.
The man pulled a Smith and Wesson revolver from his side holster, pointed it at the sky and yelled, “Gun!”
The four suspects ran, and the man flagged down a Racine police officer.
So Joe, why do you feel the need to lie? I challenge you to link to any news story that backs up your bullshit version of the events that happened.
The guy was attacked by 4 black teenagers that knocked him off his bicycle by hitting him in the head!! As he lay on the ground he was able unholster his weapon and yell "GUN" which stopped the attack against him by scaring them off without needing to shoot any of his attackers or even fire a single shot. All in all I think the guy did the right thing and there are thousands upon thousands of people that would agree with me.
As long as you are playing the 'What if" game, what do you think those 4 delinquents would have done to this middle-aged guy if he was not able to scare them off by unholstering his weapon? Would he be alive today? would he be severely injured and in the hospital? My guess is that he would have most likely been killed and robbed. by him wearing his firearm that night, he was able to defend himself against these feral thugs.
remember when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
here is a snip from the real story which can be found in its entirety here http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2009/...b9957429120.txt
RACINE — Four teens knocked a 42-year-old Racine man from his bike Friday night. He thought they were going to rob him.
The man pulled a Smith and Wesson revolver from his side holster, pointed it at the sky and yelled, “Gun!”
The four suspects ran, and the man flagged down a Racine police officer.
So Joe, why do you feel the need to lie? I challenge you to link to any news story that backs up your bullshit version of the events that happened.
I dont believe the news for 1 sec. I have 2 first hand accounts on the news completely changing the story to fit their ratings. Unless I see a police report on the incident, I will continue to make my own conclusion. Find me the full report, not a news broadcast and I will bite my tongue.
-Last time I checked I can ride a bike A LOT faster then most people can run. The man had a means to escape without any incident.
-The teenagers were UNARMED
-42yr old man BROKE THE LAW. Its a FELONY to carry a gun (open or concealed) onto a SCHOOL ZONE.
Here http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/44321637.html a news report that is so fabricated I fall over laughing everytime I read it. I WAS THERE, I filled out a 6 page police report on the whole thing. There was a mob (about 25-30 people) attacking Mike's Jeep cause they believe he just beat up a girl in the parking lot (weather this is true or not i dont know, there was a vehicle blocking my view.) As the mob was trying to break the windows of the vehicle and pull Mike out to possibly kill him, he started to drive away. The idiot, Matt Kesy, ran out of Klub Kaboom and immediately jumped infront of the vehicle and started beating on the hood, basically wanted to join the fight. I have witnessed Matt do this before, an incident which got him banned from another Waukesha area club. DONT EVER USE A NEWS REPORT TO TRY AND PROVE A POINT, the news is full of more crap then me after eating a bowl of beans!
Alright lets use state laws for this one,
You say this guy was 'Waving a gun in the air" before the delinquents attacked him.
Well if that was the case, he would have been charged with 'Brandishing". The guy was not charged with anything! they even let the school-zone infraction pass because his right to defend himself trumped the bogus school zone restriction.
Police were doing a little more than just harassing people that chose to open-carry the last couple of decades, they were attacking them with their weapons drawn, handcuffing them, detaining them and then trying to find a charge that would fit. When they couldn't find a suitable charge, they usually let the person go with a disorderly conduct charge but the police kept their firearm. That sounds alot like theft a firearm by aggravated armed assault! There was enough public outcry that the attorney general finally released his infamous memo to get the police to stop attacking people that are exercising a protected right!
All you are doing is twisting things up to meet your elitist view. Both the US and WI State constitution protect our right to keep and bear arms. With your views on people not having rights, and the government should have supreme rule over it's subjects. Maybe the city Of Chicago would make a good home for you until you are able to immigrate to communist north Korea. Their political views seem to fit with yours quite well.
You seem to have the typical police attitude, If someone besides Joe can carry a gun, then joe just does not feel all that important anymore and you are removed from that high pedestal, and it hurts you.
There are alot of people out there that I consider too stupid to have the right to vote, But it is their inaliable right and nothing can be done about it.
Rights are Rights! No matter if it is the right to keep and bear arms, or the right to free speech. They were put in place to keep government from trying to take them away. Rights are not granted by the government! Although that seems to be your lineof thinking.
You say this guy was 'Waving a gun in the air" before the delinquents attacked him.
Well if that was the case, he would have been charged with 'Brandishing". The guy was not charged with anything! they even let the school-zone infraction pass because his right to defend himself trumped the bogus school zone restriction.
Police were doing a little more than just harassing people that chose to open-carry the last couple of decades, they were attacking them with their weapons drawn, handcuffing them, detaining them and then trying to find a charge that would fit. When they couldn't find a suitable charge, they usually let the person go with a disorderly conduct charge but the police kept their firearm. That sounds alot like theft a firearm by aggravated armed assault! There was enough public outcry that the attorney general finally released his infamous memo to get the police to stop attacking people that are exercising a protected right!
All you are doing is twisting things up to meet your elitist view. Both the US and WI State constitution protect our right to keep and bear arms. With your views on people not having rights, and the government should have supreme rule over it's subjects. Maybe the city Of Chicago would make a good home for you until you are able to immigrate to communist north Korea. Their political views seem to fit with yours quite well.
You seem to have the typical police attitude, If someone besides Joe can carry a gun, then joe just does not feel all that important anymore and you are removed from that high pedestal, and it hurts you.
There are alot of people out there that I consider too stupid to have the right to vote, But it is their inaliable right and nothing can be done about it.
Rights are Rights! No matter if it is the right to keep and bear arms, or the right to free speech. They were put in place to keep government from trying to take them away. Rights are not granted by the government! Although that seems to be your lineof thinking.
Actually Coco Joe, this issue would've never been brought up if it weren't for the ignorant f'in cops with there ego to stroke trying to bust an innocent man for exercising his legal rights and trying to make a point. REMEMBER, it was the cops that tried to take down Brad Krause and confiscate his weapon that brought light to this whole situation. Don't try to turn this around that the average joe blow wanted this blown up. If you f'in idiots knew what the f$%k was going on half the time instead of pounding your chests and trying to throw your weight around with no clue, it WOULD'VE stayed the way it was and wouldn't be an issue today. Don't blame us, we didn't make the law. Someone has to protect the innocent while the cops eat there ho ho's and tell b.s. stories at the donut shop.
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 3 2009, 09:16 PM)
I bolded the part that you completely fabricated! it is a complete friggin lie and you know it!
G2O, cops never lie, they always tell the truth. LMFAO.
Been there done that. GUILTY TILL PROVEN INNOCENT and they'll fabricate this biggest b.s. stories you ever heard!
I have always wanted to walk down my street with two holstered colt .45's, two ammo belts strung across my chest, boots with spurs and maybe a big sombrero. Just for fun.....
QUOTE(1FASTXC @ Jun 5 2009, 11:40 AM)
Actually Coco Joe, this issue would've never been brought up if it weren't for the ignorant f'in cops with there ego to stroke trying to bust an innocent man for exercising his legal rights and trying to make a point. REMEMBER, it was the cops that tried to take down Brad Krause and confiscate his weapon that brought light to this whole situation. Don't try to turn this around that the average joe blow wanted this blown up. If you f'in idiots knew what the f$%k was going on half the time instead of pounding your chests and trying to throw your weight around with no clue, it WOULD'VE stayed the way it was and wouldn't be an issue today. Don't blame us, we didn't make the law. Someone has to protect the innocent while the cops eat there ho ho's and tell b.s. stories at the donut shop.
To quote myself
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 3 2009, 09:36 PM)
'ignorant' police.
I am not a cop, nor have I ever been. I was however in the Army for 4 years and the National Guard for another 4, while apart of the Wisconsin National Guard, I was a member of a specialized task-force trained for riots, general police work should the police or prisons ever go on strike, and other stuff like airport security where I spent 9 months of my life.
I would like to know what point your trying to get at, I'm for open-carry, I'm for concealed carry even more. So exactly what is your argument? Mine is I dont want every idiot out there to be carrying just because they can and my second arguement is you got what you want, a public statement from the state attorney general and almost NO harrsment anymore, so shut your pie-holes youre making things worst. On the point of 'shutting up' I'd like to note that not me, but G2O brought up a dead topic from over a month ago and specifically singled me out.
The so-called "Dead Topic" was brought up because a story about our 2A rights is in the news again,
BTW, one the guys in the picture in the lakeland times is me! I'm carrying a Springfield Armory XD-m .40 on my side in downtown Minocqua for that pic.
The topic about government entities infringing, and blatently trying to abolish our rights will never be a dead topic as far as I am concerned! I wish people had to pass an intelligence test to have the ability to vote, but that is never going to happen either!
I am all for getting the ability to legally carry concealed in Wisconsin too, But all we have right now is the ability to open-carry, so I use that. If and when the state government ever gets of out the dark ages and joins the 48 other states that CCW provisions I too might apply for CCW, But I do not want to see the option of Open-Carry disappear either. We shoud be like Vermont that allows any manner of carry with no permits involved as long as you are legally qualified to own or possess a firearm. They have the least amount of restrictions on firearms, but have the lowest crime rate with guns too? Coincidence? I think not!
BTW, one the guys in the picture in the lakeland times is me! I'm carrying a Springfield Armory XD-m .40 on my side in downtown Minocqua for that pic.
The topic about government entities infringing, and blatently trying to abolish our rights will never be a dead topic as far as I am concerned! I wish people had to pass an intelligence test to have the ability to vote, but that is never going to happen either!
I am all for getting the ability to legally carry concealed in Wisconsin too, But all we have right now is the ability to open-carry, so I use that. If and when the state government ever gets of out the dark ages and joins the 48 other states that CCW provisions I too might apply for CCW, But I do not want to see the option of Open-Carry disappear either. We shoud be like Vermont that allows any manner of carry with no permits involved as long as you are legally qualified to own or possess a firearm. They have the least amount of restrictions on firearms, but have the lowest crime rate with guns too? Coincidence? I think not!
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 7 2009, 12:31 PM)
We shoud be like Vermont that allows any manner of carry with no permits involved as long as you are legally qualified to own or possess a firearm. They have the least amount of restrictions on firearms, but have the lowest crime rate with guns too? Coincidence? I think not!
LMAO
So is it the loose restriction on firearms or maybe the fact that Vermont has a small population;biggest city in the state has a population of less then 39000, cause I hear reports of murders coming out of small-town USA all the time!
I did a little fact finding for you and comparisons myself. the state of North Dakota has a similar population as Vermont: 624,000 to 636,000 with north dakota having the larger. City densities between the 2 states are similar as well. Vermont has loose gun regulations, North Dakota has NO open carry (except hunting) and concealed carry with permit only. Vermont has a higher violent crime rate then North Dakota, almost TWICE the rate. I thought we suppose to be safer with everyone strapped????
In the words of G2O, "Coincidence? I think not!"
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 7 2009, 01:21 PM)
North Dakota has NO open carry (except hunting) and concealed carry with permit only.
wrong! North Dakota has Open-Carry without any permits just like Wisconsin.
The only states that do not allow open-carry are TX, AR,OK,FL,NY,SC, and the area known as Washington DC. Open-Carry is even legal in Illinois (in rural area's)
And every other state in the country has provisions for concealed carry. Ans Illinois will probably have C-C provisions before we do! And that really sucks!
Our governor feels that you and I are not intelligent enough to be able to carry a concealed firearm for lawful purposes and to have the ability to defend ourselves and loved ones against mortal threats. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away! so you go ahead and call 911 to stop an atacker from killing you, I'll draw from my holster to handle the situation right there and make the 911 call afterwards for them to pick up what is left of the attacker.
I find how you chose to use the term "Loose gun regulations" interesting. It really says something about how you think.
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 7 2009, 04:37 PM)
wrong! North Dakota has Open-Carry without any permits just like Wisconsin.
Why do you have to lie, is this the only way to get your points across? here is a simiple breakdown of north dakota's gun law:
Carry - Loaded Firearms
No person may keep or carry a loaded firearm in or on any motor vehicle. Exceptions include:
1.Persons possessing a valid North Dakota concealed weapons license, except while that person is in the field engaged in trapping and hunting activities.
2.Any person in the field engaged in lawful hunting or trapping of nongame species or furbearing animals.
3.A security guard or private investigator licensed to carry firearms by the attorney general.
4.Any person possessing a valid special permit.
5.A law enforcement officer, except while the officer is engaged in hunting and trapping activities with a rifle or shotgun.
6.A member of the military while possessing an issued firearm and while on official duty.
Carry - Concealed Firearms
Carrying any firearm concealed is prohibited with the exception of one who is licensed to do so, or is exempted by statute, or is a law enforcement officer.
Concealed is defined as "not discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby."
Concealed does not include:
•A firearm in a belt holster or gun case if the holster or case is substantially visible or locked in a closed trunk or luggage compartment of a motor vehicle.
•A firearm carried in a field while lawfully engaged in hunting, target shooting or trapping.
•A handgun carried unloaded and in a secure wrapper to or from a home, place of business, or repair.
•An unloaded rifle or shotgun while carried in a motor vehicle.
Wrong again!! Either you are lying, or you are not researching laws correctly.
for a comprehensive list of handgun laws you have two great options to use. I would suggest www.opencarry.org as your first choice and www.handgunlaw.us as another reference. www.opencarry.org has national maps with each and every states laws posted and the map is also color-coded for easy use.
North Dakota State Constitution Declaration of Rights, Article I, Section 1
All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed.
Preemption Complete State Preemption of All Firearm Laws
Open Car Carry Firearms may be openly carried in cars only with a permit/license.
College Carry Carry Prohibited by Statute
legal status is determined at both www.opencarry.org and www.Handgunlaw.us
Edited to add hyperlinks
for a comprehensive list of handgun laws you have two great options to use. I would suggest www.opencarry.org as your first choice and www.handgunlaw.us as another reference. www.opencarry.org has national maps with each and every states laws posted and the map is also color-coded for easy use.
North Dakota State Constitution Declaration of Rights, Article I, Section 1
All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed.
Preemption Complete State Preemption of All Firearm Laws
Open Car Carry Firearms may be openly carried in cars only with a permit/license.
College Carry Carry Prohibited by Statute
legal status is determined at both www.opencarry.org and www.Handgunlaw.us
Edited to add hyperlinks
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 8 2009, 01:11 AM)
Wrong again!! Either you are lying, or you are not researching laws correctly.
for a comprehensive list of handgun laws you have two great options to use. I would suggest www.opencarry.org as your first choice and www.handgunlaw.us as another reference. www.opencarry.org has national maps with each and every states laws posted and the map is also color-coded for easy use.
North Dakota State Constitution Declaration of Rights, Article I, Section 1
All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed.
Preemption Complete State Preemption of All Firearm Laws
Open Car Carry Firearms may be openly carried in cars only with a permit/license.
College Carry Prohibited by Statute
legal status is determined at both www.opencarry.org and www.Handgunlaw.us
Edited to add hyperlinks
for a comprehensive list of handgun laws you have two great options to use. I would suggest www.opencarry.org as your first choice and www.handgunlaw.us as another reference. www.opencarry.org has national maps with each and every states laws posted and the map is also color-coded for easy use.
North Dakota State Constitution Declaration of Rights, Article I, Section 1
All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed.
Preemption Complete State Preemption of All Firearm Laws
Open Car Carry Firearms may be openly carried in cars only with a permit/license.
College Carry Prohibited by Statute
legal status is determined at both www.opencarry.org and www.Handgunlaw.us
Edited to add hyperlinks
According to the ND state constitution, you can carry a gun for a "lawful purposes". Once again, open carry is not "lawful" in ND, except under provisions I posted before.
I went to both the websites you posted, I have also highligthed your post... A load weapon out of a case in a vehicle is defined as concealed carry, even if it is openly shown in the vehicle. This is not open-carry, this is defined as concealed carry and as posted by YOU, requires a permit.
According to the websites you listed it is also a misdermeanor to carry a loaded weapon to a public gathering, like the one you had in Minocqua.
The version of open-carry in North Dakota is NOTHING like Wisconsin. Try again.
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 3 2009, 08:12 PM)
Never said I was against it, I said I would like to see better restrictions. Example why:
About a week after the state attorney general said 'open-carry is legal' some retard in Racine wears his weapon down the street, rides his bike onto a SCHOOL ZONE, where he is then harassed by some teenagers because of the gun he is carrying. The man un-holstered the gun and waved it in the air to scare the KIDS away. Not a thing was done about it cause this whole MOVEMENT has law-enforcement so scared of getting sued, we wont even prosecute those that can't follow the law or educate them self on how to safely carry a gun.
Hypothetical situation: I'm in Racine when this idoit starts waving his gun in the air on a SCHOOL ZONE. I'm open-carrying myself, but am outside the SCHOOL ZONE limits and see this happen. With my training, my reaction would be to draw my weapon on the man, yell out 3 warnings "STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN!" If the man lowers the barrel anywhere in my direction, I will fire "until the threat is eliminated." I dont want to start a fight here, but please just think about what could happen.
You want to open-carry, cool. All i ask is, follow the law, educate yourselfs before strapping on a gun, and be safe.
About a week after the state attorney general said 'open-carry is legal' some retard in Racine wears his weapon down the street, rides his bike onto a SCHOOL ZONE, where he is then harassed by some teenagers because of the gun he is carrying. The man un-holstered the gun and waved it in the air to scare the KIDS away. Not a thing was done about it cause this whole MOVEMENT has law-enforcement so scared of getting sued, we wont even prosecute those that can't follow the law or educate them self on how to safely carry a gun.
Hypothetical situation: I'm in Racine when this idoit starts waving his gun in the air on a SCHOOL ZONE. I'm open-carrying myself, but am outside the SCHOOL ZONE limits and see this happen. With my training, my reaction would be to draw my weapon on the man, yell out 3 warnings "STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN, STOP DROP THE GUN!" If the man lowers the barrel anywhere in my direction, I will fire "until the threat is eliminated." I dont want to start a fight here, but please just think about what could happen.
You want to open-carry, cool. All i ask is, follow the law, educate yourselfs before strapping on a gun, and be safe.
How is it that DRUG FREE School Zones are only 200' while GUN FREE School Zones are 1000'?
Are you telling me that some ghetto thug scubbag crack head is better than I am?!
F#CK YOU! Seems like a no brainer here on who the officials think is more important to safeguard our children from.
PS...I don't know what "training" you've had but you are under NO responsibility to "...yell out 3 warnings..." before you start shooting. Why would you give up the element of surprise and your tactical advantage by alerting the perpetrator of your presence? Sorry, but your hypothetical situation is a little far fetched.
Carl
The right to keep and bear arms for legal puropses, Having a loaded firearm holstered on your side is a legal purpose.
You say you are a proponent of both open-carry and concealed-carry, but you want required training, permits and permission for people to do so, that relegates a right to a privilege when someone must then ask permission to do. At that point it is no longer a right!
Those Pesky Rights.
The human need to be safe and secure comes only after the physical needs for oxygen, for food and water, and to maintain body temperature.
Our human right to be safe pre-dates the formation of our government and the writing of the Bill of Rights by centuries. It therefore should come as no surprise to anyone that the Bill of Rights (specifically the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution) was never meant to bestow a right upon us that we had not already possessed for centuries. The Second Amendment's purpose is to restrict the Federal Government's ability to take our rights away from us.
The Wisconsin Constitution contains the following: The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. Art. I, #25 (enacted 1998). This does not overturn the prohibition of concealed carry, but it says the people have the right to bear arms for security.
That leaves us with open carry as the only lawful way to bear arms in Wisconsin. The Wisconsin Supreme Court has recognized this.
Demand Equal Treatment for All your Rights.
No one would allow the police to harass or threaten you with a Disorderly Conduct charge just for waiting in line to vote, or for entering a church, or arrest you for writing a letter to the editor, or for speaking your mind. It should not be tolerated that police harass or threaten your civil right to be safe for no other reason than you are lawfully armed
"How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." Quoted from Rep. Suzanna Hupp TX
Here is an excerpt from the Constitution of North Dakota;
Declaration of Rights, Article I, Section 1
"All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed."
North Dakota is a "Shall Issue" state for concealed carry, you can carry in a vehicle if you have spent the time and money to get a permit, otherwise it is the saem as Wisconsin where a motor vehicle is considered concealment if the firearm is in plain viwe or hidden.
You say you are a proponent of both open-carry and concealed-carry, but you want required training, permits and permission for people to do so, that relegates a right to a privilege when someone must then ask permission to do. At that point it is no longer a right!
Those Pesky Rights.
The human need to be safe and secure comes only after the physical needs for oxygen, for food and water, and to maintain body temperature.
Our human right to be safe pre-dates the formation of our government and the writing of the Bill of Rights by centuries. It therefore should come as no surprise to anyone that the Bill of Rights (specifically the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution) was never meant to bestow a right upon us that we had not already possessed for centuries. The Second Amendment's purpose is to restrict the Federal Government's ability to take our rights away from us.
The Wisconsin Constitution contains the following: The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. Art. I, #25 (enacted 1998). This does not overturn the prohibition of concealed carry, but it says the people have the right to bear arms for security.
That leaves us with open carry as the only lawful way to bear arms in Wisconsin. The Wisconsin Supreme Court has recognized this.
Demand Equal Treatment for All your Rights.
No one would allow the police to harass or threaten you with a Disorderly Conduct charge just for waiting in line to vote, or for entering a church, or arrest you for writing a letter to the editor, or for speaking your mind. It should not be tolerated that police harass or threaten your civil right to be safe for no other reason than you are lawfully armed
"How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." Quoted from Rep. Suzanna Hupp TX
Here is an excerpt from the Constitution of North Dakota;
Declaration of Rights, Article I, Section 1
"All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed."
North Dakota is a "Shall Issue" state for concealed carry, you can carry in a vehicle if you have spent the time and money to get a permit, otherwise it is the saem as Wisconsin where a motor vehicle is considered concealment if the firearm is in plain viwe or hidden.
I have an idea, why not simply call the North Dakota legislature and ask someone there.
I was told by a neighbor who's been
hunting ducks in N.D. for 40 years that it is legal to open carry handguns outside of a motor vehicle, and at certain distances from school zones and other restricted buildings... dunno??
I was told by a neighbor who's been
hunting ducks in N.D. for 40 years that it is legal to open carry handguns outside of a motor vehicle, and at certain distances from school zones and other restricted buildings... dunno??
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 8 2009, 03:27 PM)
You say you are a proponent of both open-carry and concealed-carry, but you want required training, permits and permission for people to do so, that relegates a right to a privilege when someone must then ask permission to do. At that point it is no longer a right!
I do look at it as more of a privilege then a right, and honestly I dont think anything will ever change my mind on this. I do ask though, a right is a right and do you believe you should be able to lose a right, cause by definition if your able to lose it, its now a privilege. Its illegal for a felony to posess any firearm for any reason (including self defense.) This is a form of regulating a right, do you agree on this?
QUOTE(XCR1250 @ Jun 8 2009, 03:51 PM)
I have an idea, why not simply call the North Dakota legislature and ask someone there.
I was told by a neighbor who's been
hunting ducks in N.D. for 40 years that it is legal to open carry handguns outside of a motor vehicle, and at certain distances from school zones and other restricted buildings... dunno??
I was told by a neighbor who's been
hunting ducks in N.D. for 40 years that it is legal to open carry handguns outside of a motor vehicle, and at certain distances from school zones and other restricted buildings... dunno??
Sounds like someone is volunteering? LOL. I dont really care about ND, I only know what I've found online and I've posted all of it; ND was only used for a comparison with vermont due to their similar populations and city densities.
I do agree that rights should be forfeited if a person has shown that they are a danger to society as a whole, A felon loses the right to keep and bear arms, (RKBA) and they also lose the right to vote among other key rights.
These lost rights can also be regained by petition to the courts if the individual in certain circumstances.
You think firearm ownership should be lowered to a privilege, and the serious problem is almost every liberal legislator agrees with you!
We were not granted rights by the founders of this great country or its current administration, Instead we retain rights that we were born with for being a citizen of the USA. The founding fathers saw it very needful that the government should not have the ability to take those rights away. The RKBA was used as a way to keep the government from turning tyrannical, so we would have a chance of overthrowing the government if it turned into a dictatorship. So we would have a viable process of revolt against such tyrants.
lets look at where the founding fathers came from, and look at the UK's current gun laws! it took a few hundred years but the UK was able to successfully disarm almost every law abiding citizen, and now the only people that have firearms are the criminals. It did n;t work out too well for them, did it?
Do you know who else disarmed the citizens, and only granted the privilege for a few select people to own firearms? His name was Adolf Hitler, How did that work out for the citizens of Germany that did not have blond hair & blue eyes?
Those are the exact reasons the RKBA needs to stand solid as a guaranteed right for all to possess and exercise. our own form of checks and balances!
These lost rights can also be regained by petition to the courts if the individual in certain circumstances.
You think firearm ownership should be lowered to a privilege, and the serious problem is almost every liberal legislator agrees with you!
We were not granted rights by the founders of this great country or its current administration, Instead we retain rights that we were born with for being a citizen of the USA. The founding fathers saw it very needful that the government should not have the ability to take those rights away. The RKBA was used as a way to keep the government from turning tyrannical, so we would have a chance of overthrowing the government if it turned into a dictatorship. So we would have a viable process of revolt against such tyrants.
lets look at where the founding fathers came from, and look at the UK's current gun laws! it took a few hundred years but the UK was able to successfully disarm almost every law abiding citizen, and now the only people that have firearms are the criminals. It did n;t work out too well for them, did it?
Do you know who else disarmed the citizens, and only granted the privilege for a few select people to own firearms? His name was Adolf Hitler, How did that work out for the citizens of Germany that did not have blond hair & blue eyes?
Those are the exact reasons the RKBA needs to stand solid as a guaranteed right for all to possess and exercise. our own form of checks and balances!
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 9 2009, 09:21 AM)
I do agree that rights should be forfeited if a person has shown that they are a danger to society as a whole, A felon loses the right to keep and bear arms, (RKBA) and they also lose the right to vote among other key rights.
These lost rights can also be regained by petition to the courts if the individual in certain circumstances.
You think firearm ownership should be lowered to a privilege, and the serious problem is almost every liberal legislator agrees with you!
We were not granted rights by the founders of this great country or its current administration, Instead we retain rights that we were born with for being a citizen of the USA. The founding fathers saw it very needful that the government should not have the ability to take those rights away. The RKBA was used as a way to keep the government from turning tyrannical, so we would have a chance of overthrowing the government if it turned into a dictatorship. So we would have a viable process of revolt against such tyrants.
lets look at where the founding fathers came from, and look at the UK's current gun laws! it took a few hundred years but the UK was able to successfully disarm almost every law abiding citizen, and now the only people that have firearms are the criminals. It did n;t work out too well for them, did it?
Do you know who else disarmed the citizens, and only granted the privilege for a few select people to own firearms? His name was Adolf Hitler, How did that work out for the citizens of Germany that did not have blond hair & blue eyes?
Those are the exact reasons the RKBA needs to stand solid as a guaranteed right for all to possess and exercise. our own form of checks and balances!
These lost rights can also be regained by petition to the courts if the individual in certain circumstances.
You think firearm ownership should be lowered to a privilege, and the serious problem is almost every liberal legislator agrees with you!
We were not granted rights by the founders of this great country or its current administration, Instead we retain rights that we were born with for being a citizen of the USA. The founding fathers saw it very needful that the government should not have the ability to take those rights away. The RKBA was used as a way to keep the government from turning tyrannical, so we would have a chance of overthrowing the government if it turned into a dictatorship. So we would have a viable process of revolt against such tyrants.
lets look at where the founding fathers came from, and look at the UK's current gun laws! it took a few hundred years but the UK was able to successfully disarm almost every law abiding citizen, and now the only people that have firearms are the criminals. It did n;t work out too well for them, did it?
Do you know who else disarmed the citizens, and only granted the privilege for a few select people to own firearms? His name was Adolf Hitler, How did that work out for the citizens of Germany that did not have blond hair & blue eyes?
Those are the exact reasons the RKBA needs to stand solid as a guaranteed right for all to possess and exercise. our own form of checks and balances!
I dont want to take rights away from anyone, I just want people to be educated first. You wouldnt give your son/daugther a gun and just let them start shooting before teaching them a little something first?
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 9 2009, 10:03 AM)
I dont want to take rights away from anyone, I just want people to be educated first. You wouldnt give your son/daugther a gun and just let them start shooting before teaching them a little something first?
I've been reading your posts and I have no idea what side of the gun debate you are on. Please sum it up for me in a general synopsis.
Carl
QUOTE(carlschmarl2 @ Jun 9 2009, 10:17 AM)
I've been reading your posts and I have no idea what side of the gun debate you are on. Please sum it up for me in a general synopsis.
Carl
Carl
I tend to play devils-advocate alot, just the way I am.
-I'm Pro open-carry
-I'm Pro concealed-carry
-I'm Pro some form of education/permit (wheather its training, questionaire...something) so not just any idiot can strap on a gun and walk the streets.
ONLY IDEAS, dont take it as anything more!!! Why not list ideas to make it better, not necessarily more restrictive. Here is my first idea:
-Suzuki will pay for a motorcycle training course with every new/used bike purchaced from a dealership, if gun manufactures did this, you'd never hear another word from me.
If people go and buy a gun, i would think they have some inkling how the hell it works. If you're so worried about people being dangerous if not trained, how about you post up some statistics of people that got harmed with a gun by someone (innocently) who wasn't trained at all? I'm sure there's just tons and tons of cases. 
When you bring up the nutcases, what the f$%k is the difference if they're nuttier than squirrel turds. If they go get trained on how to use a gun, is that going to make them less nutty and not shoot someone afterwards? Should they turn them down for training? Look what the terrorists did. They got trained how to fly an airplane so they could use it to kill people. I don't see the point of all your training. A criminal is a criminal and if they decide to use a gun to do something wrong, they're going to do it, training or not. What are they going to do, tell certain people they don't have the given rights that others do because they "seem too nutty"? What if everyone in the state could open carry except guys that go by the name cocojoesledder on the internet, because they just aren't wrapped right in some peoples opinion. Would that be fair?
When you bring up the nutcases, what the f$%k is the difference if they're nuttier than squirrel turds. If they go get trained on how to use a gun, is that going to make them less nutty and not shoot someone afterwards? Should they turn them down for training? Look what the terrorists did. They got trained how to fly an airplane so they could use it to kill people. I don't see the point of all your training. A criminal is a criminal and if they decide to use a gun to do something wrong, they're going to do it, training or not. What are they going to do, tell certain people they don't have the given rights that others do because they "seem too nutty"? What if everyone in the state could open carry except guys that go by the name cocojoesledder on the internet, because they just aren't wrapped right in some peoples opinion. Would that be fair?
Your training wouldn't do jack squat for safety. All it would do is teach people that know absolutely nothing about guns how to handle them. The innocent ones that only want to have it for protection and have no bad intentions would be fine and never would've harmed you or anyone anyway since that's not their intention. The people that are up and coming criminals, now you just trained them how to use a gun for criminal activity. The people that have bad intentions are already using guns without training to harm people, so what good is the training going to do there? So let me get this straight now, you're scared of the people that have no intention of harming anyone and just want a gun to protect them selves right? They're the dangerous ones?
I think individuals getting training is great idea, Everyone should have some type of informal or formal training in anything they do just so there is less chance of making a mistake that may injure themselves or not be able to defend themselves because they forgot about deactivating the safety in a time of need.
But it should not be mandatory for firearm ownership.
We have people voting with no mandatory training, hell we even have people voting that should be disqualified from that right under current laws, we also have people speaking publicly with no mandatory training. Those are both protected rights in this country as is our right to keep and bear arms for defensive purposes.
I think Joe may be equating the simple act carrying of a firearm for personal defense, the same as shooting the firearm daily in situations where several people may be in the general vicinity.
Criminals that illegally possess, and use their firearms during the commission of a crime do not need to, or usually have any training. So it makes no sense to me that the law abiding citizen exercising their rights should not be required to have any training either.
How about the cowards that flew jet airplanes into the World Trade center. Look where formal training got them! the terrorists got training to fly so they could use commercial jets against the citizens of this country. Do you think that would have happened if the pilots or flight attendants were armed? I doubt it! I still find it hard to believe that the passengers of only 1 of those flights took the initiative to fight back! Sheeple!! Friggin sheeple! by not acting against the terrorists, they caused the deaths of thousands and still lost their own lives!
It is very rare that anyone carrying a weapon for personal protection ever needs to unholster their weapon in self-defense. I personally went 7 years carrying concealed before I was ever involved in a situation where my gun needed to be drawn and aimed at an attacker. How often do you get attacked by someone? If it is a daily occurrence, maybe a change of lifestyle or moving to a better location would be a top priority? And if moving is not an option, Go armed everyday of your life!
I would rather have a firearm in my time of need (No matter how rare that chance may be) than to need a firearm and not have it available!
I would love to hear Gov. Doyles grumpy mumblings right now! It looks like his multiple Veto(s) of our concealed-carry bill backfired into his bald-headed face big time!
After the A.G. publicized his memo for the police to quit harassing people that exercise open-carry rights, the Governor stated in a news conference he will try to get the laws changed to prohibit it. This shows me what he thinks about the citizens that elected him, he thinks we are all too stupid and irresponsible to take care of ourselves and that government should do that for us! I am insulted by his statements and I have signed a petition to remove him from office before the end of his term due to his statements!
I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said "A government large enough to provide everything you need, is also powerful enough to take it all away"
There have been cases in the courts where the judges clearly stated "The police do not have the legal obligation to protect you, that is your responsibility"
very recently, 2 Milwaukee police officers were shot by a felon illegally carrying a firearm, and it was concealed! it was purchased by a straw-buyer for the fee of $40.00. We already have laws against this, Adding more laws on top of what we already have will not take firearms out of the hands of criminals, it will only disarm the law abiding citizens and remove their ability to defend themselves against criminals. Chief Flynn and Mayor Barrett want to treat each and every one of us as a criminal, they think very little of us. Why should people like this be kept in their position?
But it should not be mandatory for firearm ownership.
We have people voting with no mandatory training, hell we even have people voting that should be disqualified from that right under current laws, we also have people speaking publicly with no mandatory training. Those are both protected rights in this country as is our right to keep and bear arms for defensive purposes.
I think Joe may be equating the simple act carrying of a firearm for personal defense, the same as shooting the firearm daily in situations where several people may be in the general vicinity.
Criminals that illegally possess, and use their firearms during the commission of a crime do not need to, or usually have any training. So it makes no sense to me that the law abiding citizen exercising their rights should not be required to have any training either.
How about the cowards that flew jet airplanes into the World Trade center. Look where formal training got them! the terrorists got training to fly so they could use commercial jets against the citizens of this country. Do you think that would have happened if the pilots or flight attendants were armed? I doubt it! I still find it hard to believe that the passengers of only 1 of those flights took the initiative to fight back! Sheeple!! Friggin sheeple! by not acting against the terrorists, they caused the deaths of thousands and still lost their own lives!
It is very rare that anyone carrying a weapon for personal protection ever needs to unholster their weapon in self-defense. I personally went 7 years carrying concealed before I was ever involved in a situation where my gun needed to be drawn and aimed at an attacker. How often do you get attacked by someone? If it is a daily occurrence, maybe a change of lifestyle or moving to a better location would be a top priority? And if moving is not an option, Go armed everyday of your life!
I would rather have a firearm in my time of need (No matter how rare that chance may be) than to need a firearm and not have it available!
I would love to hear Gov. Doyles grumpy mumblings right now! It looks like his multiple Veto(s) of our concealed-carry bill backfired into his bald-headed face big time!
After the A.G. publicized his memo for the police to quit harassing people that exercise open-carry rights, the Governor stated in a news conference he will try to get the laws changed to prohibit it. This shows me what he thinks about the citizens that elected him, he thinks we are all too stupid and irresponsible to take care of ourselves and that government should do that for us! I am insulted by his statements and I have signed a petition to remove him from office before the end of his term due to his statements!
I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said "A government large enough to provide everything you need, is also powerful enough to take it all away"
There have been cases in the courts where the judges clearly stated "The police do not have the legal obligation to protect you, that is your responsibility"
very recently, 2 Milwaukee police officers were shot by a felon illegally carrying a firearm, and it was concealed! it was purchased by a straw-buyer for the fee of $40.00. We already have laws against this, Adding more laws on top of what we already have will not take firearms out of the hands of criminals, it will only disarm the law abiding citizens and remove their ability to defend themselves against criminals. Chief Flynn and Mayor Barrett want to treat each and every one of us as a criminal, they think very little of us. Why should people like this be kept in their position?
I don't understand how training of any kind; be it mandatory or not is supposed to curtail any crimes. Do you think if the 18 year old kid in Milwaukee had any kind of training he wouldn't have shot those two policemen in broad daylight earlier this week?! Maybe he would have been a better of a shot and fatally wounded them instead. Did any of the hand guns laws restrict this ghetto scumbag from pulling the trigger? NO. And what does the good Mayor start crying about? He wants stricter (preemption) laws enacted in Milwaukee!
What laws if ANY did this kid follow? NONE!
1. Bought the firearm through a "straw purchase."
2. Concealed (probably - I'm drawing conclusions).
3. Within 1000' of a school (conclusions).
4. Under age.
Now do you think any training would have done any good?
Possibly the three fundamental rules to any firearms safety?
1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. Treat every gun as if it were loaded.
How about shooting fundamentals?
1. Sight picture.
2. Front sight.
3. Squeeze the trigger.
What more training did this $hit Bag need?!
Link To Mayor Barrett's Teary Tirade
What laws if ANY did this kid follow? NONE!
1. Bought the firearm through a "straw purchase."
2. Concealed (probably - I'm drawing conclusions).
3. Within 1000' of a school (conclusions).
4. Under age.
Now do you think any training would have done any good?
Possibly the three fundamental rules to any firearms safety?
1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. Treat every gun as if it were loaded.
How about shooting fundamentals?
1. Sight picture.
2. Front sight.
3. Squeeze the trigger.
What more training did this $hit Bag need?!
Link To Mayor Barrett's Teary Tirade
Hey Carl, Thanks for joining us here. You guys got Concealed carry provisions in what year? I know NY-City has got some real F'ed up gun laws yet, and those worked out real well for the criminals becuase hardly anyone can legally carry.
I agree with you on how adding more gun laws is stupid & useless legislation, and tighter laws would not have stopped the 2 officers from being shot either.
That is the part so many people just cannot get through their head, Criminals do not obey laws! so whatever a law is, it just does not matter to them. It only stops law abiding citizens from being able to defend themsleves against criminals.
The punk in Milwaukee was carrying concealed, he had felony charges already, he bought the gun through a straw buyer, So he did not have the ability to purchase or own that gun legally. But he still had it. He broke how many laws?? those laws worked really well, didn't they?
I agree with you on how adding more gun laws is stupid & useless legislation, and tighter laws would not have stopped the 2 officers from being shot either.
That is the part so many people just cannot get through their head, Criminals do not obey laws! so whatever a law is, it just does not matter to them. It only stops law abiding citizens from being able to defend themsleves against criminals.
The punk in Milwaukee was carrying concealed, he had felony charges already, he bought the gun through a straw buyer, So he did not have the ability to purchase or own that gun legally. But he still had it. He broke how many laws?? those laws worked really well, didn't they?
I'm not sure what year NY became a CCW state. I wish it was a "Shall Issue" state versus a "May Issue" state. CCW in NY is issued by the county in which you live. I got mine within 3 weeks of application, however, my fiance has been waiting almost a year to get one from her county and she works for the DOJ. Some counties even place restrictions on permits ie "target and hunting only" whereas mine is unlimited. I can carry in bars and public places except the obvious state and federal buildings and schools. There is no 1000' rule for schools, encased while in a motor vehicle and other crazy rules. We also have to register every handgun on a permit unlike most states that only license the individual. NY also has wasted millions in dollars since enacting the "Ballistics Fingerprinting". This is a system set up where every new handgun sold in NY has to be test fired and that shell and bullet is then sent into the NYSP where it's archived for the future to help solve gun crimes. To date this system has not netted one criminal nor one hand gun in any crimes. Waste of state tax payers monies IMO.
It is/was weird since moving here to leave the house without a firearm on my person...thank God she can carry and does whenever we go out...at least one of us is armed. I used to carry 95% of the time when in NY...hell, I even carried while out riding. I would like to see a "Shall Issue" here in WI but I'm afraid this liberal state will make it extremely hard to get and carry CCW if they do pass it into law. From the little research that I've done since moving here I think we (as Wisconsin Residents and Pro CCW Advocates) need to wait until the political climate is right to push another attempt at CCW legislation to avoid all the unnecessary restrictions.
Carl
It is/was weird since moving here to leave the house without a firearm on my person...thank God she can carry and does whenever we go out...at least one of us is armed. I used to carry 95% of the time when in NY...hell, I even carried while out riding. I would like to see a "Shall Issue" here in WI but I'm afraid this liberal state will make it extremely hard to get and carry CCW if they do pass it into law. From the little research that I've done since moving here I think we (as Wisconsin Residents and Pro CCW Advocates) need to wait until the political climate is right to push another attempt at CCW legislation to avoid all the unnecessary restrictions.
Carl
CCW will come along one f these decades, What worries me though is the politicians will try and outlaw Open-Carry to try and get coccealed carry pushed through. I do not want to lose my right to open carry! Imagine how ridiculous it would be to need to conceal a hangun when out wandering in the woods. If O-C gets tossed in favor of C-C, that may very well happen.
CC provisions would be nice to have in the winter becuase it is awfully difficult to wear a parka and a holster rig that stays uncovered properly to be legal O-C. Right now O-C is all we have, and I am pleased with that. Why fight to get another reason to carry when it is about as usefull as pissing into the wind with our current governor.
Please visit www.opencarry.org and join the WI specific forum. Lots of good stuff happening over there and across all the threads.
CC provisions would be nice to have in the winter becuase it is awfully difficult to wear a parka and a holster rig that stays uncovered properly to be legal O-C. Right now O-C is all we have, and I am pleased with that. Why fight to get another reason to carry when it is about as usefull as pissing into the wind with our current governor.
Please visit www.opencarry.org and join the WI specific forum. Lots of good stuff happening over there and across all the threads.
QUOTE(Gettin2Old @ Jun 14 2009, 04:50 PM)
Please visit www.opencarry.org and join the WI specific forum. Lots of good stuff happening over there and across all the threads.
I'm not a member there, however, I frequent that site quite a bit. I like the "Hometown Forums on AR15.com; CLICK FOR LINK
Carl
I have a few AR parts waiting around for a build, but I have been waiting for the frenzy to slow down a little before proceeding. I used to be able to get beautiful surplus SKS rifles for around $100.00 each. now the burned-out crappy ones are drawing $300+.
A lower assembly for an AR was about $60.00, now they are near $200.00 and backordered for months. I feel this rush to buy is going to be the same as the Y2K deal where everyone bought generators and never needed them and sold them never used for cheap a year later. Once the frenzy ends, things will go real cheap!
My atest purchase was a Springfield Armory XD-m in .40 S&W
A lower assembly for an AR was about $60.00, now they are near $200.00 and backordered for months. I feel this rush to buy is going to be the same as the Y2K deal where everyone bought generators and never needed them and sold them never used for cheap a year later. Once the frenzy ends, things will go real cheap!
My atest purchase was a Springfield Armory XD-m in .40 S&W
Good news for South Milwaukee...
Also, Watertown might not be too far behind.
Basically these two towns wanted to enact certain ordinances banning the carrying of firearms. But thanks to some out spoken people and certain Alderman/Alderwomen these issues will hopefully die for a while.
SM Notes:
"The proposed ordinance for South Milwaukee was voted upon last night. The vote was 4-4, with the mayor not wanting to vote. With a tie vote, it died. I was told by one alderman that this will not come up again."
That is quoted from the thread on opencarry.org.... You can read more details from people that were there IN THIS LINK
Watertown:
"The ordinance got delayed while it is getting reviewed. I think some of the aldermen are coming around. The final vote was going to be in 2 weeks but not sure about the time table as the ordinance is now being sent out for a second legal review. I’ll keep you’ll posted."
Carl
Also, Watertown might not be too far behind.
Basically these two towns wanted to enact certain ordinances banning the carrying of firearms. But thanks to some out spoken people and certain Alderman/Alderwomen these issues will hopefully die for a while.
SM Notes:
"The proposed ordinance for South Milwaukee was voted upon last night. The vote was 4-4, with the mayor not wanting to vote. With a tie vote, it died. I was told by one alderman that this will not come up again."
That is quoted from the thread on opencarry.org.... You can read more details from people that were there IN THIS LINK
Watertown:
"The ordinance got delayed while it is getting reviewed. I think some of the aldermen are coming around. The final vote was going to be in 2 weeks but not sure about the time table as the ordinance is now being sent out for a second legal review. I’ll keep you’ll posted."
Carl
QUOTE(carlschmarl2 @ Jun 17 2009, 08:26 PM)
Good news for South Milwaukee...
Also, Watertown might not be too far behind.
Basically these two towns wanted to enact certain ordinances banning the carrying of firearms. But thanks to some out spoken people and certain Alderman/Alderwomen these issues will hopefully die for a while.
SM Notes:
"The proposed ordinance for South Milwaukee was voted upon last night. The vote was 4-4, with the mayor not wanting to vote. With a tie vote, it died. I was told by one alderman that this will not come up again."
That is quoted from the thread on opencarry.org.... You can read more details from people that were there IN THIS LINK
Watertown:
"The ordinance got delayed while it is getting reviewed. I think some of the aldermen are coming around. The final vote was going to be in 2 weeks but not sure about the time table as the ordinance is now being sent out for a second legal review. I’ll keep you’ll posted."
Carl
Also, Watertown might not be too far behind.
Basically these two towns wanted to enact certain ordinances banning the carrying of firearms. But thanks to some out spoken people and certain Alderman/Alderwomen these issues will hopefully die for a while.
SM Notes:
"The proposed ordinance for South Milwaukee was voted upon last night. The vote was 4-4, with the mayor not wanting to vote. With a tie vote, it died. I was told by one alderman that this will not come up again."
That is quoted from the thread on opencarry.org.... You can read more details from people that were there IN THIS LINK
Watertown:
"The ordinance got delayed while it is getting reviewed. I think some of the aldermen are coming around. The final vote was going to be in 2 weeks but not sure about the time table as the ordinance is now being sent out for a second legal review. I’ll keep you’ll posted."
Carl
This is not news... It is against state contitution for such an ordinance to be passed. I've already posted this before and if you were any advocate for gun-carry, you'd known the law. Prime example why I believe people should be educated before carrying for a purpose other then hunting (only because we already have required education for hunting.)
The fact that the cities are even trying to pass this ordinance makes them a bunch of tards. Its only going to cost the tax payers money to get the ordinance pass then someone is going to open-carry, get arrested and sue the shit out of the city and cost the tax payers more. You know what, SCREW IT, pass the law so i can enact my "get rich quick" scheme.
"Wisconsin has a state pre-emption law that generally forbids cities from passing firearms ordinances more strict than that of state law. Statute 66.0409. This doesn't affect zoning regulations, which is why only one Madison gun shop sold handguns. That shop, along with others as well as the only gun club in Middleton, have closed."
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 17 2009, 10:07 PM)
This is not news... It is against state contitution for such an ordinance to be passed. I've already posted this before and if you were any advocate for gun-carry, you'd known the law. Prime example why I believe people should be educated before carrying for a purpose other then hunting (only because we already have required education for hunting.)
The fact that the cities are even trying to pass this ordinance makes them a bunch of tards. Its only going to cost the tax payers money to get the ordinance pass then someone is going to open-carry, get arrested and sue the shit out of the city and cost the tax payers more. You know what, SCREW IT, pass the law so i can enact my "get rich quick" scheme.
"Wisconsin has a state pre-emption law that generally forbids cities from passing firearms ordinances more strict than that of state law. Statute 66.0409. This doesn't affect zoning regulations, which is why only one Madison gun shop sold handguns. That shop, along with others as well as the only gun club in Middleton, have closed."
The fact that the cities are even trying to pass this ordinance makes them a bunch of tards. Its only going to cost the tax payers money to get the ordinance pass then someone is going to open-carry, get arrested and sue the shit out of the city and cost the tax payers more. You know what, SCREW IT, pass the law so i can enact my "get rich quick" scheme.
"Wisconsin has a state pre-emption law that generally forbids cities from passing firearms ordinances more strict than that of state law. Statute 66.0409. This doesn't affect zoning regulations, which is why only one Madison gun shop sold handguns. That shop, along with others as well as the only gun club in Middleton, have closed."
The news was that these two cities had city council meetings this week to try to enact stiffer, more restrictive gun laws in their respective towns. IF YOU were a gun advocate YOU would have known about these council meetings and been in attendance to speak out against them and to let the alder people know that there is Preemption here in WI.
Please elaborate on what your "Prime Example" is. If you directed that comment at me, you had better rethink your tactics bud. Also, if you knew your Wisconsin State Statues and Case Laws, you would know that local municipalities are capped as to how much a person can sue for. That law is for "tards" like you, who cannot sue over every issue and bankrupt the village/town/city. I've only been here 4 months and it appears I am more versed in Wisconsin Law than yourself. Thanks for playing along.
Carl
Here is my cell number in case you would like to discuss this matter more in depth: 315.730.6994
PS...Spell check is your friend
QUOTE(carlschmarl2 @ Jun 18 2009, 12:15 AM)
The news was that these two cities had city council meetings this week to try to enact stiffer, more restrictive gun laws in their respective towns. IF YOU were a gun advocate YOU would have known about these council meetings and been in attendance to speak out against them and to let the alder people know that there is Preemption here in WI.
Please elaborate on what your "Prime Example" is. If you directed that comment at me, you had better rethink your tactics bud. Also, if you knew your Wisconsin State Statues and Case Laws, you would know that local municipalities are capped as to how much a person can sue for. That law is for "tards" like you, who cannot sue over every issue and bankrupt the village/town/city. I've only been here 4 months and it appears I am more versed in Wisconsin Law than yourself. Thanks for playing along.
Please elaborate on what your "Prime Example" is. If you directed that comment at me, you had better rethink your tactics bud. Also, if you knew your Wisconsin State Statues and Case Laws, you would know that local municipalities are capped as to how much a person can sue for. That law is for "tards" like you, who cannot sue over every issue and bankrupt the village/town/city. I've only been here 4 months and it appears I am more versed in Wisconsin Law than yourself. Thanks for playing along.
I dont recall me saying anything about suing over the cap, oh wait, i didnt, so eactly how does this mean you know the law better then me? It doesnt.
QUOTE(carlschmarl2 @ Jun 18 2009, 12:15 AM)
Please elaborate on what your "Prime Example" is. If you directed that comment at me, you had better rethink your tactics bud.
Or Carl Schmarl is going to beat me up?
QUOTE(carlschmarl2 @ Jun 18 2009, 12:15 AM)
PS...Spell check is your friend
oH cRAP, i mISSED aN 's' iN cONSTITUTION; i'M gOING tO hELL, sOMEONE hELP mE pLEASE.
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 18 2009, 07:46 AM)
I dont recall me saying anything about suing over the cap, oh wait, i didnt, so eactly how does this mean you know the law better then me? It doesnt.
"...Get rich quick scheme..." is what you said. Unless you consider a few thousand "rich" then more power to you. I took that statement as saying you thought you would retire after suing some municipality. Maybe then you could buy a "big boy" sled.
And I'm not a fighter, I don't need some idiot who I beat the snot out of coming after me for civil damages...so I think you're safe there.
Coco, you're in West Allis right? I'd like to make amends and take you out shooting some time...I think we got off on the wrong foot.
It's quarrels like these that will forever keep the Pro-2A proponents from uniting, and the Anti's will continue to make more knee jerk, restrictive legislation because they are all united on their cause; eliminating guns from society. It's all or nothing in my book. We don't need any more laws regarding hand guns. Or any more "required training" for those who buy firearms. Why teach some ghetto hood rat how to shoot more accurately? I looks like they are doing just fine on their own. Just last night I was up patrolling the north side of Milwaukee and ran into TWO separate crimes scenes of homicides. Maybe you'd like to go for a ride with me tonight and I'll show you all the good these gun laws are doing!
All the training and guns laws in the world aren't going to stop these flea bags from committing crimes and/or killing each other. We need to enact stiffer penalties for those who commit these crimes using firearms...mandatory minimum sentences, felonies - AND USE THEM. Why is it that the state of Virginia has the least restrictive gun laws in the Union yet they also have some of the lowest crime rates?! Maybe because they punish those who use firearms in crimes?! Why don't we outlaw hookers, drug dealers, and all criminals? Oh wait, we already do and its not stopping them. Good idea!
Carl
QUOTE(carlschmarl2 @ Jun 18 2009, 10:56 AM)
Coco, you're in West Allis right? I'd like to make amends and take you out shooting some time...I think we got off on the wrong foot.
It's quarrels like these that will forever keep the Pro-2A proponents from uniting, and the Anti's will continue to make more knee jerk, restrictive legislation because they are all united on their cause; eliminating guns from society. It's all or nothing in my book. We don't need any more laws regarding hand guns. Or any more "required training" for those who buy firearms. Why teach some ghetto hood rat how to shoot more accurately? I looks like they are doing just fine on their own. Just last night I was up patrolling the north side of Milwaukee and ran into TWO separate crimes scenes of homicides. Maybe you'd like to go for a ride with me tonight and I'll show you all the good these gun laws are doing!
It's quarrels like these that will forever keep the Pro-2A proponents from uniting, and the Anti's will continue to make more knee jerk, restrictive legislation because they are all united on their cause; eliminating guns from society. It's all or nothing in my book. We don't need any more laws regarding hand guns. Or any more "required training" for those who buy firearms. Why teach some ghetto hood rat how to shoot more accurately? I looks like they are doing just fine on their own. Just last night I was up patrolling the north side of Milwaukee and ran into TWO separate crimes scenes of homicides. Maybe you'd like to go for a ride with me tonight and I'll show you all the good these gun laws are doing!
I HATE the city and I know all the bad parts of it. Long story why I moved from Oconomowoc to 'Dirty Allis' and as soon as this economy improves I'll be getting the hell out.
As far as the big boy sled, I've sold my 550, just havent updated the profile. If you do a search, you'll also see that the 550 was not stock either, a lot of work and money went into that toy, its not easy to make 85hp and and 393lbs out of the 550.
Boy you guys are have fun here...
Cops don't miss up... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865 Never talk!
Or when Obama decides to use the military against United States citizens.
Cops don't miss up... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865 Never talk!
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 5 2009, 06:47 PM)
I am not a cop, nor have I ever been. I was however in the Army for 4 years and the National Guard for another 4, while apart of the Wisconsin National Guard, I was a member of a specialized task-force trained for riots, general police work should the police or prisons ever go on strike, and other stuff like airport security where I spent 9 months of my life.
Or when Obama decides to use the military against United States citizens.
QUOTE(NHsledin @ Jun 18 2009, 01:11 PM)
Or when Obama decides to use the military against United States citizens.
Obama is a @#%@%&*$$#@$^%$&()()$@
QUOTE(CocoJoesSledder @ Jun 18 2009, 01:31 PM)
Obama is a @#%@%&*$$#@$^%$&()()$@
Coco,
http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/jun/1...ut-hold-milton/
Let's take your "get rich scheme" down to Milton and try it out. It appears they are doing the same as S. Milwaukee and Watertown. Let me know how it works out for you.
Carl
I credit alderwoman Lisa Pieper and the members of OCDO ( www.Opencarry.org ) for stopping the rest of the South Milwaukee from enacting their new firearm ordinance, She visited OCDO and learned the laws and why that proposed law was both useless and Illegal.
There was no support or official intervention by the NRA, but within 1 weeks time the NRA sent out a NRAILA Alertr to take credit for it! Which is not really a total lie if you think about this way. Their "I am the NRA"" shirts and stickers, since I am a current NRA member, and a few others at OCDO that had discussed the laws with the alderperson from South Milwaukee. But there was no official NRA presence in any of the metting or discussions.
The city of Greenfield was considering enacting an ordinance similar to South Milwaukee, and they were waiting to see what happened there, so it looks like Greenfield is going to drop their proposed ordinance too. Some members of OCDO also attended the Greenfield meeting. Minocqua actually has a bogus firearm law on the books yet, It is not enforced though. The Minocqua town supervisor actually co-authored Statute 66.049 (Preemption law) when he was a state rep. to stop a patchwork of different firearm laws throughout the state. He is Rights friendly! So is the police chief, But we do have a few cops that could benefit from a little refresher course.
Well, I think I am going to holster the XD-m .40 and take the pooch (Female Shepherd) for a walk. Oh, you say I don't need a gun to walk the dog??
Maybe the 2 coyotes that have been hanging around our property and bringing some fresh kills up to the house as a gift to my dog may just decide to attack her one of these times.
would that scenario help people understand that it is good thing to always have a legally carried firearm in our posession even f you live in a zero-chance of violent crime area of the state.
There was no support or official intervention by the NRA, but within 1 weeks time the NRA sent out a NRAILA Alertr to take credit for it! Which is not really a total lie if you think about this way. Their "I am the NRA"" shirts and stickers, since I am a current NRA member, and a few others at OCDO that had discussed the laws with the alderperson from South Milwaukee. But there was no official NRA presence in any of the metting or discussions.
The city of Greenfield was considering enacting an ordinance similar to South Milwaukee, and they were waiting to see what happened there, so it looks like Greenfield is going to drop their proposed ordinance too. Some members of OCDO also attended the Greenfield meeting. Minocqua actually has a bogus firearm law on the books yet, It is not enforced though. The Minocqua town supervisor actually co-authored Statute 66.049 (Preemption law) when he was a state rep. to stop a patchwork of different firearm laws throughout the state. He is Rights friendly! So is the police chief, But we do have a few cops that could benefit from a little refresher course.
Well, I think I am going to holster the XD-m .40 and take the pooch (Female Shepherd) for a walk. Oh, you say I don't need a gun to walk the dog??
Maybe the 2 coyotes that have been hanging around our property and bringing some fresh kills up to the house as a gift to my dog may just decide to attack her one of these times.
would that scenario help people understand that it is good thing to always have a legally carried firearm in our posession even f you live in a zero-chance of violent crime area of the state.
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