A question I have is should snowmobile clubs be allowed to run dyed fuel in their groomers? This would help off set one of the major costs that clubs carry every year. The RM's and Municipalities are allowed to run dyed fuels in their graders maintaining RM roads! Bush contractors are allowed to run dyed fuels in their bunchers, delimbers and skidders! Why shouldn't clubs be allowed to run dyed fuels in groomers that are maintaining club trails.

Maybe clubs need to canvass their local MLA'S, what do you all think.

Catman

NO, that opens the door for many other organizations to use purple fuel and that needs to stay as a Farm Use Only product to maintain the lower cost. SK has already dropped purple fuel in leu of a rebate paid to farmers at the end of the year, and that may sound fine to you and me but when it's the difference of $1000-$3000 extra per fill on a farm tank, that can hurt alot when money is tight around the harvest season.

If you want to lobby the gov't do it on all that gas tax we pay that seems to go nowhere....if it did we wouldn't have worse roads then Bahgdad like we do now!!

I see where your coming from...but I vote yes.....all the mining companies up north here are allowed to run coloured fuel and their all making billions hand over fist....i say make them run regular diesel and let the non-profit groomers run coloured....its not just farm fuel anymore

oh and btw just noticed that this is in the manitoba forum....oops my bad didn't mean to stick my ontario butt in your business LOL

Should be allowed!!

yep. there not travelling on roads so its kinda like a tractor in a field

Like a snow farmer!! Ya...Ya thats it!!! But the clubs don't make the kind of coin the farmers make.

Personally i woudlnt be suprised if some of them already are, they are 90% around here run by farmers who have easy access to dyed deisel and being club equipment who would check.....

not sure where you are from, but around here farmers do not make as much coin as you seem too think. when it cost some friends 2 g's to fill a tractor tank for 6-8 hours of work, that is not making money!!! everything went up in price but the grain and return the farmers get. if we got what we are owed for the amount of work we do no one would be able to afford to live!!! .

let the groomers used dyed fuel, as a matter of fact any off road vehicle should be allowed to run it!!!

Why not,
Here in BC we are also legally allowed to run purple in boats, pwc's atv's and sleds.
However our prices at the pumps are probably somewhere around the highest in Canada thanks to the new 2.4 cent /Litre carbon tax, we are at 145.9/litre at the pumps on land and at 179.0 on the water!

Man that's high fore sure..when you said the highest in Canada, I thought we might have you beat here in CB NS..we pay 1.64 a Litre on the water...expensive when you burn around 500 litres a day..........

I noticed when I was at Glacier House in Revy this past spring the fuel at the resort was purple. I guess that explains it.

I think the groomers should be able to run purple. They are driving off road vehicles for a non profit organization. But I see 4MULA's point about opening up the door for organizations.

This topic takes me back to high school and the Mounties checks tanks for purple while we were in class. LOL The mustang did have purple in it from time to time but thankfully not when it was checked. HE HE

Could we get that extended to cover coloured gasoline for club snowmobiles, chain saws, brush trimmers etc.?

Where have you been? Everything that has anything to do with "ag" is up. Stocks, commodites, not to mention your land, you name it. Yes fuel has gone up but if your not doing well now time to get out, your in the wrong proffession. My relatives are all doing extremely well in farming, especialy since the massive spike.

Back to the topic, I say yes to purple.

ya since the companies that make combines, tractors, and other machines cant keep up with demand right now. farmers are doing terrible. city folk are buying the combines out to drive on sunday to church

Exactly. I know a few that live very well!!!! I don't think they would be doing it if they lost money every year.

My profession is AG and anyone who thinks farmers make a lot, or have it easy are deff. a city person with their head up their ASS!! Canola might have been $13.00 bu, but fertilizer has doubled to tripled in price since last fall, diesel has gone up at least .40 and on a 300 gallon fill for a combine or 200 for a 4WD tractor then that's a lot of money going out, especially for a crop that isn't off the field yet and things are not looking super this year so far. There are deffinately some smart farmers out there who have managed to make some money and hold onto it, but you also must realize some of the biggest famers out there or the one's with all the toys and nice house probabaly owe more then you or I could even fathem......most everyone can have credit, but only a few can actually pay!

I'm not sure what the discount is from prov. to prov. on purple fuel, and that might be where it differs for why they can run it in ORV's and etc. in the other provinces, but like I said before...leave it alone here, not that it would happen anyway, as we are supposed to be going to the SK system within the next few years. Fight for your road tax dollars back from ORV gas, or just plain lobby for more support for this leaisure activity that can bring revenue to the province thru tourism......either way...saving a few cents on gas isn't going to save any clubs or gain any trails!

all of you guys who think farmers are doing well better get your head out of your ass asap and start buying locally. with the cost of fuel almost doubling in the last couple years, fertilizer going up by 150% or more in cost, chemical costs going up like crazy, its not going to take long till everything out here crashes! the cost of all produce is going to skyrocket soon by the looks of things.

do you really think all the new tractors are being bought outright? or is it just a lease, or a loan? like really how many farmers can afford to pay off a $250 000 tractor, or a $300 000 combine? then you need all the implements to go along with them at what cost? almost all of the farmers i know out here lease the machinery! they do not own shit all, either the bank does or the company! farmers are famous for playing big, but times come when they have to fess up and have nothing when the bank comes a calling!

its called an operating loan, cash up front, payback in the fall when the crop comes in, get an extension, and the cycle keeps repeating itself till the bank says give me the money!

don't get me wrong, not all are like this but a lot are. a few do make decent cash.

personally if i could afford to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on equipment for the farm, i would think twice and do something else or just plain retire.

WOW...one little comment sure gets everyone sidetracked!! Enough about the poor farmers, lets get back to the dyed diesel issue. I say yes.

The problem with your YES and the others is they are not taking all the consequences into play....think about more then the trails when you discuss a topic like this, and as I said before...who is it going to save anyway???

In my opinion, the farmers with lots of money are rich, the ones without cash are not. Like any business, there are good business people and bad ones, lucky ones and some not so much. It's pretty hard to stereo type business owners in an industry that has no control over the sales price of their own products. Farming is a form of gambling.

Getting back on topic, What kind of fuel does the highways department use in their graders? If they use dyed fuel, I'd make the arguement that a groomer performs the same function as a grader on a gravel road? Catmanyamadooeater, can you find someone who can find this out?

PS. When we talk about farmers, are we talking about farmers who use purple fuel in their sleds or trucks hauling sleds to their favorite riding location? Last I checked this was a snowmobile forum, not the Prairie Farm Report forum.

In MB only farmers who earn I believe 60% or more of their income from farming activities may use purple fuel, that's why even if you own a 1/4 section you can't just buy and burn purple. Those farmers that do choose to burn purple for recreational purposes can be charged when not on farm business, 99% never do get charged, but the odd one here and there gets a nasty DOT officer.

Thanks for the info. Interesting.

Most of our clubs fuel is "Donated" by farmers...so you can guess what's in our groomers tank? You mean someone uses regular diesel? How many D.O.T.'s do you see following groomers?

Yes they should be allowed

The taxes on the non dyed are for road repair

I say groomers should just gas 'n dash, it would put a nice dent in the price of them snopasses! Plus how's a cop car gonna chase a groomer down a trail?

*The previous post is not to be taken seriously.

I think this guy might be retarded, or from the city! Our fuel bill this year will be around $20000, probably as much as you make pumping gas at domo, 8 years ago our fuel bill would have been under $5000. Just giving you the reality buddy! I think it wouldn't be a problem with dyed fuel in a groomer, just try to tell that greedy government that! They like that tax money off all these transport trucks, maybe if we had a normal railway we wouldn't have these prices, not to mention these shitty shitty hi-ways!!

The price of fuel is complete BS anyway...not a single thing to base where the price is. Everytime some a-hole farts in an oil producing country the god damn price goes up. They say the Iraq war was for oil...well I sure don't see the U.S. with $0.50 gallon gas....so maybe that's not the case. Either way....farming is in some serious trouble if things don't go down, but expalin that to the city people who think the farmers are getting rich when they spend $2.50 on a loaf of bread.....

Anytime you ask the government for one thing and they give in, it usually means something else suffers. I have no problem with guys donating purple, or using it for that matter...but keep that on the down low, last thing any club needs is a $400 fine and to have to tear the tank out and have it steamed.

Guys

Back to the original question/argument about canvassing to allow groomers to use dyed fuel legally in the groomers. First off currently dyed diesel is not only used in the farm process but in forestry equipment, milling and mining equipment as well as RM and yes highway graders. So with clubs runnning their groomers off road with none of the road tax dollars coming back to the clubs why shouldn't they be allowed to run this legally? I 'm not suggesting that farmers are to be effected by this as I'm sure if this was going to happen that it would have happend due one of the many other functions mentioned above and not due to the snowmobile clubs groomers running dyed fuels! in discussing fuel volumes I know that our groomer carry's in excess of 300 gallons of fuel so it is not cheap to fill and burns 8 gallons an hour so we have to fund raise a lot of dollars with no road tax dollars back to the clubs but if this allowed it would help lower the fund raising burden on the clubs around the province.

By the way I'm glad to see that farmers may have a chance to finally get back some of the dollars for the sweat equity that they put into their farms to produce products that we all use and need. And yes there are many well to do farmers and some that are not so well off but this industry has seen a increase in demand for their products due to the changes in the economy due to them not only producing food products but their grains are being sold into the energy supply industry for bio fuels and ethonol due to the rising costs of fossell fuels and they are cleaner burning fuels which brings variuos pressures from variuos environmental goups (some for and some against).

And yes your input costs are up due to large input suppliers/ groups that see a chance for them to get an easy cash grab while grain prices are up. With input costs reaching $300 plus an acre the farmers are taking huge risks this season and if things don't go well many will not see another year. But what does a groomer running or clubs requesting our local MLA's to allow us to run dyed diesel in our groomers have to do with farm producers!

I really don't think that this request will negatively affect the farm producers.

Catman

Snoman should be the one canvassing government to allow groomers to run purple. They represent all clubs and groomers, so it makes sense. Any directors reading this here should bring it up at their next meeting.

LOL, well not retarded but yes a city boy. As for Domo, well they must have a great package as my retirement date is set for 45 years old at the latest. I think I know what I'm doing. You are right, I do not know specifics with number per farm but only about the stocks, commodities etc. As for $20 000 for fuel, would lead me to believe you have a fairly small farm? $20 g's means nothing until you explain your other operating cost vs. your gain. Now whats making money? If your paying your payments on your leases and your net is still 100K I would say your doing well. Somebody made an exellent point about it being impossible to categorize farmers. I agree. There are smart, business savy farmers and stupid ones. The days of the hick with teeth missing are gone. I think farming would be a great profession and I would be proud to be one if I was. But again I ask the question "if after expenses your clearing 25-40g's with high selling prices, why would you stay in?" I think that would put them in the stupid category. There are never any specific numbers thrown around, its either "we don't make that much" or "its tough times" well define "not much" As reference to my relatives, they are very intelligent people who can carry any conversation from stocks to politics and would be in the "making over 100k a year" category. This is not directed at anyone specific. So would any farmers like to share some numbers and maybe put some light on why these farmers would not get out if doing so poorly. The gov't program to train farmers in different professions is amazing. I know one guy who is getting his pilots license through this.

As for 4mula, why do you think the price of fuel is BS. That is the usual uneducated response I would expect from others. Europe has been paying these prices for over 7 years and they are much closer to transportation routes than us. We have been underpaying for fuel (not as much as the Americans) for some time. I don't like it but that is reality. It goes much deeper into politics and governments than one thinks and its not cut and dry. The oil companies have absolutely no control over prices, those are reflected by investors which in turn is the public. Yes the gov't is making more money from the surcharge tax on fuel but just think how much their expenses has gone up as well, military, transportation aid costs, etc. For a country so large with such a small population which means small (very small) tax base thank your lucky stars that we pay as little as we do. I know it sucks but again its reality and maybe it will change all the yuppies driving their SUV's that need a 4X4 to drive to safeway, or drive the way for alternate energy sources. I drive a truck because I have to along with many. Don't drive one because I think its cool. North America is so behind when it comes to energy conservation that its embarrassing. Google it and see what Japan and Europe is doing, its amazing. Wave energy, snow cooling, smart cars etc. We will soon be forced to step it up, probably after the Bush's are out of the mix and gas hits $2.50 a litre

Apparently your not educated in the amounts of oil that are being discovered daily which will result in a good 200+ years of our normal fuel consumption. SK is on the brink of becomming as large, if not larger then AB for oil production as there have been some great find in the northern area of the province, as well as some pretty big pockets in SW MB that have not been tapped yet. Speculators are the reason were paying these high prices, and oil companies are not about to step in when they are earning 100's of billions of dollars and consumption remains close to the same with the price isisn galmost daily. What Europe is doing and Japan has no relation to what North America must do for the most part, due to the fact we are such a large land mass with great distances from our A-B points that we cannot rely on some of these power saving idea's and still maintain our way of life.

When you can come up with a 4WD 400 HP tractor that runs on Pixie dust then come talk to me, but until that time we are farming 50X's more land then those countries and require massive fossil fuel burning equipment to do so. Most European countries do not have the refining capacity that the U.S. has, therefore the fuel is making a few more trips before it reachs it's destination. Look at what Austrailia is doing...you can still by a carborated vehicle there because fuel is cheapier, and no regulations really for emission control....a prime example that not everyone is affected byu the "Gas Scare"

Big oil, and the Bushes don't want more production on oil, as that takes $$'s from their pockets.....get them out and I wouldn't be amazed if prices go down....not to mention get everyone out of Iraq and find a diplomatic way to end the fighting.

My .02 "uneducated" opinion

Thats for sure, you may also want to brush up on your comprehensive skills as to my post, that may help you understand my " I drive a truck because I have to" statement. While your doing that read a couple of books about world oil supply and consumption. After you have completed those tasks take a simple and I mean very simple business course with a little politcal science on the side.

After you have done these things I would like you to re-post your thoughts of "we are good for another 200 years of our normal consumption" and " the Bush's don't want more oil production" Only then can we logically debate these points.

WOW...another jackass with a pocket degree in "I KNOWEVRERYTHINGISM" Possibly if you worked with large companies that are in this industry as I do, and supply companies that generate large sums of thier gross earnings from the sale of fuel you might get the actual inside word. Do you believe everything you read?? A book on what is "possibly going to happen" is just another speculator of the future shooting from the hip about something that nobody can honestly prove as fact. My education background is business and once your inside the gate you learn a lot more about different industires that isn't information privey to everyone.

Your overindulgence to sound educated on this matter just shows that your only educated from the books you ready, but that only takes you as far as the paper their written on. Get some real life experience and then come and have a conversation about how the oil and gas industry is doing and how it affects a topic on a snowmobile site about dyed gas for a groomer.....or better yet save your rehteric for an apparently more educated crowd.

Tisk tisk 4mula, resorting to name calling already. Boy if I had your inside knowledge, not only would I be a billionaire but I may just rule the world. I sure hope your not wasting that info on a 9 to 5er For everybody elses sake I'm done for this topic

LOL....You work 4MULA??? MAn...would never have guessed. Do yourself a favour Penn....don't waste your time on dumb dumb head.

Both spoken like 2 people with nothing to say in response that has any merit....but your right Yama....not worth Penn's valuable time to discuss somethin he apparently knows nothing about.....and if he did he would be making money off the industry like the company I work for does.....but hey...the world needs BK workers too!

Buddy, your joke! You must spend 20mins per sentence just to make yourself sound cool or smart, whatever you want! Retirement at 45 makes you sound useless, and your nothing but a joke! Stay in the city, because people like you, don't blend into our society out here! Get your books and calculator out ya dork!

so how many 1 ton 2007+ diesels do you own and how many actually are used other then getting grocies.

For Christ sake guys the topic is dyed diesel should the clubs be able to utillize this legally? This thread was not meant to start a war between farmers and city folk! Now pick up your tooth picks and shake hands and apoligize to each other because your acting like a bunch of Taliban ass holes!

Grain Good!
DOMO Good!

LOL!!!



Catman

who the hell gets fuel from Domo??

Who ever said we under pay should be shot. Who cares about Europe do we live there, no.

Read above as they are arguing and a statement was made that he ws ready to retire by the time he is 45 working at DOMO! They don't pay that good!

If you owned one your overhead would be almost nothing and that might let someone live comfortably...but not retire at 45.....unless you owned it when you were 15

4Mula and Sno pro, you two are so stupid. Not a day after 45 and there are no domo's in my portfolio.

Here is our fearless leader sno -pro the master of knowledge and Duck Mountain Legend, not to mention the ladies man that he is


I wish somebody could post a picture of 4mula, I'm sure they could be twins!

HAHAHAHAHAHAA!

Oh man, the Snowest guys are going to love this. Eh snopropanther?

Now thats not nice!

Here's the only pic you need from me you Douche, I was trying to find one of you..but the poster boy for birth control seems to be missing from the net??

haha so you have a pic of me saved on your computer of when i was under 18 years old. screams pedophile. I think i was 16 in that pic. you like little kids?? thats sick