Has anyone seen tracked quads on trails? Should they be allowed?

What would be the effects?

Where would the rule changes end? Tracked Rhinos, Rangers, and Razors? Tracked trucks?

I know Sno-mans definition of a snowmobile, but what happens in the real world???

I've seen them in the Whiteshell. Other than being slow as shit, I don't see the issue unless some of you guys come up with something creative

I believe snoman says right in the "rules" no ATV's regardless of traction tool.

I'm of the beliefe you better have a pass to be on the trail, and technically a quad isn't valid to have a sticker...so end of story.

When you slam the throttle to the bar from a dead stop they make the same (if not more) damage as wheels. Also, when you get into the larger models, they occupy much more space (width wise) than a snowmobile.

If and when they allow them on the trails - I'm done with snowmobiling altogether

They also don't make the same imprint as a sled and cause a rough trail, and can make it dangerous if you like to ride a little fast.(just waiting to get feedback on this)

Tires on the trail...those guys should be pulled off and tossed in the bush, you want to ride your quad in the winter...find somewhere else to ride it.

I have to agree with you guys. We were on our annual trip a few years back on some fresh groomed trails it was great. Then as we got near the whiteshell we ran into some nasty quad ruts that snaked back and forth. We had to crawl the rest of the way it sucked. I don't ride trails much but I buy a pass every year to support the clubs so that they are there. I would support the quad riders if they had their own trail system or if they could go on the sled trails without making them dangerous and paid the same money that we do.

I really don't know what the tracks do to the trails but my opinion would be based on the damage they cause. If they cause the same damage as a sled, then buy a pass and keep to the right, if they destroy the trails please stay off!!

FWIW, I haven't noticed the damage a tracked quad makes. I can't see how they can be any worse than a sled when they're on a groomed trail. I've followed a couple in the Whiteshell before and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary other than them being slow. On the lake it's a different story.

Well hell, if they don't wreck the trails with tracks on let them buy passes and fill their boots.

What if met a quad on a tight trail?

Winch cables across the trail?

Do you think it would stop with quads? UTV's? Seriously, a 5 1/2 foot or 6' wide utv would be the next think on the trail...

Well if they go that slow I am thinking meeting them on a tight trail should be less stressful than meeting a sled going faster. Not sure how much wider a tracked quad is than one with wheels but my tires are what 43-45" wide? Less than my sled... Same with following a "slow" tracked quad, don't you pass slower sledders when you come upon them? I've seen tire tracks on trails but never had any difficulty with the ruts. I am new to the trails and have seen only limited examples but it seems a bit blown out of proportion. I would sooner meet tracked quad than a nut job on a sled. The tracked quads I have seen in snow had no effect on anything packed, only powder, so I would say damage to the trail is a myth. Winch cable across the trail... I don't see that you would be driving over your vision so the logical thing to do would be to stop and assist with the stuck machine. Same as the tracked quad would do if he came along your stuck snowmobile off a corner you couldn't make because of the nut job on the sled you met on it...

Keep them off the sled trails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get your own friggin trail system. With the huge cash they spend on big cc quads and tracks they can afford to buy a sled or pay to develop a club system and trails of their own. Which I imagine would be quite difficult seeing that most private land owners would rather shoot them than allow them on their land. Which brings up the reason that I don't want them on sled trails..... land owners would shut down our sled trails in a heartbeat. Oh, by the way I own a quad too.

well i must be one of the asses you guys hate on the trails, rode my quad on them at the end of last season, along with the rest of our group of 12 or more riders. there is no ban keeping them off the trails, and snowman will not allow us to buy a pass. go figure. too bad so sad. we will be seeing you guys out on the trails again this year, especially if the price of gas keeps going up!! i do ride my sled on the trails also and do have a pass.

for the guy worried about the winch cable across the trail, like really, if you are going so fast to miss seeing 2 or more quads on the trail, with a couple or more guys on the trail, then maybe you deserve to hit it, it would make the trails a safer place for all if you are driving so fast or just have tunnel vision! what happens when you come upon a dog sled or skiers, or even a person walking or dead sled on the trail? maybe an animal, will you run into them?

a quad most likely do less damage to a trail (unless it is soft) then someone with a 150hp or larger sled from a dead stop when they nail it, or even in a corner, a quad will not push out the corner like someone driving a sled aggressively will, and even taking off from a corner a quad will not rip it up as bad as a guy on the hammer on a sled will!! it just does not have the power. they will make a mess yes but so do sleds!.

get used to it guys, a lot more families are buying quads opposed to sleds as AFFORDABLE year round recreation vehicles opposed to something that we can only use down here for what, 2-3 months? with grooming for maybe 1.5-2 months?

so the trappers have to stay off? how about ice fisherman using the trail as a direct route to the lake? dogsleds? maybe they should be off but it is a public trail! how about people walking, do they need a pass?

isn't there a speed limit on the trails, something like 60kph or 80 kph? same laws on the road also, stay to the right, not cut to the inside of the corner cause your going to fast!

besides, how fast can your formula dlx go anyways? topped out at 90 kph?

What if met a quad on a tight trail?

no different then meeting another sled, groomer, person, animal, or dogsled which cannot stop or turn!

Winch cables across the trail?

if you can,t see the quads or people and slow down, well then you should not be driving anything then!!

Do you think it would stop with quads? UTV's? Seriously, a 5 1/2 foot or 6' wide utv would be the next think on the trail...

just a little exaggerated i would say!!

if snoman or snowmobile clubs wish to continue, they are soon going to have to accept atv's into their membership just to survive financially. how much driving do you think a family with 2 or 3 sleds can afford to do this year? are they going to give up the sport? maybe buy a pass, or god forbid, maybe chance it and drive without a pass? maybe they will make a fake one, which i know guys do. how many miles or even times groomed do you think the clubs will be able to afford this year with the price of fuel? not much i would say.

the only way will be to combine the 2 groups, take the huge amount of money atvers will hopefully contribute and maintain the trails in summer and winter? summer maintainace would be what, run the trails once or twice a season to clear away trees which may have fallen ac across the trails after a storm? and once in the fall either before freeze up or just after to smooth down the ruts left in wet areas!

it would be a win win situation. but if both groups keep fighting, we will all lose.

I would honestly never buy another pass if they gave the go ahead to atv'ers in the winter with tires, and unfortunately most summer trails run across a lot of private land, and or crown land that is fenced for the spring/fall season and with cattle on it, which brings a whole other sit of liable probs to the table.

I like the idea of atv's having a voice, but it can't affect the other system in a negative way.

1. Interesting that owning a quad qualifies one use the "groomed snowmobile trail system" supported by a sport which has developed the trail system to what it is today. The way I look at this is, if you want to use this "groomed snowmobile trail system", then the quad owners should approach Snoman and the Province to be able to make a proposal about using the trail system. Or, developing a partially separate system - take a look out east to see what can be done. For an $95.00 ATV Trail pass when you register (cough, cough) your ATV, an ATV system can be developed to everyone's liking.

2. Having been an ATV rider for numerous years (since 1989}, ATV's wreck the shit out of the trails. Let me think - you pin the throttle = big ruts. A little bit of fish-tailing. A few donuts. Give me a break - the tires tear the shit out of the trails in the spring, summer, and fall. And with 4 wheel drive - Yee Ha!! - more ruts. Fixing this on the "groomed snowmobile trail system" will require more grooming than for the sleds. Hey, ATV's are fun, having run a Sportsman 700, Predator, Xplorer 400, etc. over the years - sand pits, trails. 40 miles out, then 40 miles back (if you don't carry extra gas).

3. Cost - hell, both can be expensive (lets see, ATV w/s, thumb warmers, hand warmers, track kits, warm clothing, maybe a ski kit for the winter - Wait - its a SLED) - its the choice we make. Both are seasonal sports, with ATV's actually having the longest possible season depending on the depth of the WATER - maybe April to end of November. If you want range - you can't beat a sled. Ride from the 59'r to where? LDB, Nopiming, Pine Falls, Gimli, Hecla, Portage - and back. Sleds were developed to run MILES - ATV's were developed based on HOURS of use. Yeah, there are some who put a lot of miles on their ATV's, but they are a minority. Ride an ATV from the 59'r to where? How fast? 10, 12, 15 miles per HOUR in the ditch?

4. ATV sales are declining. Yes, dealers are still selling them, but not in the numbers they claim. Along with boats, the consumer is cutting out recreation vehicles. If they stop sledding, they are not about to get into ATV's at this time.

5. For Snoman and the Snow clubs to continue to exist, its time for the Snowmobilers who use "groomed snowmobile trail system" to ante up the $95.00 for the pass - for starters. 10 rides for 9.50 a ride is not much for the distance you can travel. Yep - Pass fee with your registration. I rode when there where very few trails - ditches, the roller coasters in the Belair forest, ducking low hanging tree branches, etc -- I'll ante up the $95.00 for the pass.

So, in a nutshell - no ATV's on the Snowmobile trails. I can wait until its reasonably dry to ride ATV between April and November, on what was the sled trail. Then sledding when the season's ready.

I have no problem with them as long as they pay for a snopass. ATV's with wheels on trails pisses me off, I tried to drive up on one last year on 44 and kick him in the leg or something, but it was a kid, parents were on sleds behind them.

[quote name='4MULA-DLX' date='Jun 18 2008, 09:25 PM' post='4006362']
I crown land that is fenced for the spring/fall season and with cattle on it, which brings a whole other sit of liable probs to the table.

you can legally cross it as long as you close the gates. it is only leased public land, not private land. this would fall under the same law as running down a powerline crossing a farmers property, their has to be a gate under the powerline which allows people through, it must not be locked, you have to stay within hydro property which falls something like 50 yards from the edge of the towers? even if there is a crop planted you can run down it without any issues, but hopefully common sense will prevail in this circumstance!! we own property under a powerline right of way and we have to abide by the law.

i would like to se you drive up on me and try to kick me, you would have a whole lot of other issues to deal with then just an atv pissing you off! i can promise you that!!

WOW this thread is really making me glad I don't ride the trails much.

LOL ....I dunno...Delgaty is a pretty big boy, not so sure I would kick him back

Honestly, it's just selfish of anyone on an atv on the winter trails to think their not affecting anyone, and not to mention thier breaking the law anyway, so they have no grounds for when us sledders bitch. I have a quad and use it quite a bit now in the summer, possibly getting close to using it more then my sled, but when the snow flies it hits the shed and the sled comes out, and I have to deal with enough atv ruts when the snow is shallow, little own when they can finally groom the trail over them.

Guys,

Don't get mad at me playing devil's advocate. I'm trying to get information from the snowmobiling community to see what the implications would be. This is a real possibility for our sport.

Up here on the north side of the Ducks, we haven't seen many, if any, quads with tracks on the trail. But I've heard it occurs in the Whiteshell.

In terms of the winch cable, it could be a possibility, but probably not all that likely. Hey, I've heard of tow trucks doing the same thing on highways. The results were not pretty.

Growing into UTV with tracks... I can really see this happening. UTV's are gaining marketshare and popularity in the states like crazy. The are more family friendly, and have tons of options. Opening the trails to tracked quads would only make it easier to start allowing UTVs. Remember the side by side Bombardier sled from a couple years back. It'd be the same thing except for no skis on the front and a bunch more weight.

You tried to kick someone for riding on the trails?

I don't give a shit how much of a "big boy" you are, that just makes you a bigger asshole.

ATV's rip everything to shit, and to say tracks will tread lighter is bullshit. Like said before they can pay like the rest of us, but the trail system needs to be seprate. All the ruts on top of woops on our trails would make a mess, think about it...

Quads should not be able to ride on sled trails in the winter, period. Summer is a different story though, I don't have a problem with that, in fact I do it myself. But in the winter all they do is rip everything up and make more work for the groomers. If any of you guys that ride quad trails in the winter ever pass me, that finger you see isn't to tell you how many riders are coming

thats the same thing you will see from me when i pass you when you break down, or ditch your car. we are in the seddons area all the time, maybe we will run into you!!haha

When I break down, ditch my car??? So let me get this straight, I don't like quads riding on sled trails (as do 95% of other sledders) so your gonna pass me when I somehow ditch my car??? Are you on crack or something??

coming out of swan river going south on the trail there was 1 quad track at the end of last season. what an asshole. this was right after the trail was groomed for the last time. ruts, and crap. only lasted 10 miles but its dangerous riding the trails and having to deal with that stuff.

never seen one on tracks on a trail but the ruts the wheel one made was enough to convince me to keep them off the trails.

if they are allowed then many trails are going to have to be a lot wider, more snowfall, and more grooming. and we know that many areas get different snow falls from year to year which impacts the amount of grooming.

theres only what 3-4 months of trails in the far south??? leave the quads at home. the farther north the longer the season but leave the quads at home and use a sled.

i havent seen the affect on quads with tracks on the trail in around here but last winter we got stuck behind two assholes from ldb with untracked quads fish tailing around turns and not letting us pass. For work i use a brand new polaris 6x6 with the rear wheels tracked and i must say in sumer theres not a bog that will stop that thing holly shit. As for the guys on the quads fish tailing on the trails id like to give them a talking to.

It's a free world. Let them ride!! Yes it's a pain in the butt. Anyone with a quad will take the advantage of riding a nicely groomed trail during the winter months...I know I would, but wouldn't chew up the trail! Everyone pays alot of coin to purchase a sled or quad....the advantage of a quad is that u can use it all year. The best quadding I have done is in the Duck Mountains......good times. Except being swamped by persons I will not mention for fear of retaliation....lol But I WILL get him back...one day when he is not expecting it!!!!!!!........When the buttercups are a plenty!!

if you pass me and flip me the bird on the trail you are damn right i will pass you by on the road with the bird out the window!! your on crack buddy, its a free world, people will drive where and when they want, and there will be a lot more quads on the trails in coming years!!

so its ok if i come and make ruts in your yard?

go ahead, its all rutted from me and my buds rippin it up!! oh ya, who said you could go sledding in my backyard??

Who said you could go quading on a sled trail in the winter?? You sir, are a genuine ass hole!

I would like to help with that if possible!! I mean maybe it would hit more more if put speed bumps all up and down the street in front of your house, because that's what a quad does to the sled trails then they tear them up.




Very nicely put, and accurate at this point.

I would take a hundred respectful ATV riders on a trail with me before taking one self absorbed "want to be" racer dude passing on his snowmobile and kicking a kid. That is stupid and dangerous. You should stay off the trails till you grow up and realize it is not all about you. If an ATV rider or sledder knows you are there then the respectful thing to do is to move over enough to let you pass. If they don't then just slow down, enjoy the view and pass when it is safe. No need for trail rage.

Trails where I ride allow wheeled ATV's if the temperature is less then 28 degrees all day. This to reduce wheel damage. I have been on the these trails often enough and have not experienced the problems indicated in this thread. On the other hand there are a significant amount of snowmobile track burn out ruts, snow piles, corners burned down to dirt, and general disrespect for the property owners, trails and fellow riders. It fustrates me to know other sledders are intentionally doing alot of the damage I come across. I have seen "Stay on the trail" signs and next to it hundreds of tracks shortcutting across a newly seeded field. Who are these knuckleheads?

I myself would like to have the option to to use a tracked ATV on sled trails. I am a respectful operator of sleds and ATV's and would not intentionally damage a trail or create a dangerous situation.

WHO THE HELL SAID I CAN'T?? RCMP DID NOT SAY NO WHEN I ASKED THEM, THE CO'S DID NOT SAY NO WHEN I ASKED THEM, AND THE RESPONSE I GOT FROM SNOMAN WAS THAT QUADS ARE NOT ABLE TO GET A SNOPASS BUT CANNOT BE STOPPED FROM RUNNING THE TRAILS!!!

hey you can put up all the speedbumps you want, it will just slow down all the vehicle traffic who fly by like idiots, that is if you can put the speedbumps over the potholes!! oh ya, that would be similar to how a lot of sledders drive now, fast, instead of out for the casual ride!!

Well most sledders buy a snowpass to support the clubs. This money mostly is spent on grooming. Now if quads are going to start driving down the trails all the time its going to make twice as much work for the groomers because they are going to have to fix all the damn ruts you ass holes leave in the trails. Seeing as how you quaders don't have to buy a snopass then where is all that money for the extra grooming coming from?? I'll tell you where, straight out of the sledders pockets! Do you understand yet why quads don't belong on the trails in the winter?

dude, i have 2 sleds and 2 snow passes, one sled gets used maybe 2 times a year but still has a pass. if i want to run my quad once in a while on the trail i think i more then payed for its way! especially in the spring once the grooming stopped!!! should us atv drivers bitch about trucks on the trail? hell no, just get along with whatever is on the trail!!

this whole thread reminds me of a new neighbor who moved out from the city to the country by our place. he went around with a petion to all the other neighbors about keeping the farm tractors and equipment off the roads cause they are to noisy, too wide, to harmful to his oiled road of 100 feet!! so ya he goes and crys to all the guys who own tractors!!! dipshit, and to top it off he is building an airstrip on his land, like that is not noisy!! all the farmers are against the airstrip now!! like jeez, just get along!!!

I wouldn't actually do it, but if I was on a trail that was rutted out, making my day of riding shitty, then come up to a shack and theres quads, I WOULD have a word with them about screwing up the trails I pay to have groomed nice and smooth.



I didn't try to do it, but as soon as I saw the quad (that I had to wait a couple miles to pass) I thought about doing it. And yes, I am an asshole, not to everyone, to the people that deserve it. There are 3 types of people in this world: pussies, dicks, and assholes.

Most people are pussies. They think the law and the government know what's best for them so they just do as they're told, and never object or question anything because they're afraid of the consequences. They get screwed over by dicks and don't retaliate because they don't want to continue and fight and just let it be.

Dicks screw pussies all the time. They either do it for their own amusement or for their own gain while not caring how it affects the pussy they're screwing over.

Then there's assholes. Assholes just mind their own business for the most part and couldn't give a shit what happens between the dicks and the pussies. They hate dicks for being who they are, and don't have a shred of pity for the pussies because they allow themselves to be screwed.

But every now and then, a dick will try to screw an asshole, and assholes don't take to kindly to that. Dicks can still try and screw them, but they usually end up getting in shit for it!

What I'm trying to say is; guys who ride ATVs on sled trails are being dicks because they know its going to screw over the sledders but they do it anyway. Like I said before though, I have no problem with quads that have track kits.



I'm not a wanna-be racer, I know more than a few people that ride wilder than me. And again I never actually did it, just thought about it, and stopped thinking about it after I saw it was a kid. I would never kick a kid. I actually thought it was nice him and his parents were out for a family ride.



Just because the law doesn't say its wrong doesn't make it right, and just because the law says it's wrong, doesn't make it so! Remember, the law also thought it was right for that 15 year old girl who stole an Avalanche, hit a cab at a 138 kph, killed a cab driver and laughed about it, only get a GPS bracelet for 3 months as punishment. Bitch deserves a bullet between the eyes.

Good points Ryan!

I just can't understand how anyone who doesn't pay, or doesn't follow the law feels they have the RIGHT to do anything. I don't care what a-hole RC, or CO told you that you could ride your quad down the trail, but unless your in a public ditch then you are violating the rules set by SNOMAN and you void their insurance when you ride on private land, and not to mention could be charged with trespassing. I quad and love it, but I don't need to feel like I can be a dick smack and take my quad and cause harm to destruction to someone else's property, and that's what your doing when you ride OUR (sledders who pay for passes) trails.

If I meet some idiot riding with tires on the trail it will be a cold day in hell before I get off the trail for him or out of his way, and he can pull off and get stuck and sit there till spring for all I care. Take your quad and ride somewhere else, or buy a sled if you want to run the trails...either way....don't think your not going to run into some PO'ed sledders and get a talking too out on the trails, and byt the way...WE DO OUT NUMBER YOU!!!

Who said i cant.

personally if i was a farmer and allowed a trail across my field i would say no. in low snow years i DO NOT want ruts in my field from idiots riding quads on sled trails. remember its land owners that allow trails. no land owners permission means no trials.

also personally if i owned the land and it was planted, in a low snow year i would not even allow a sled across it as it would freeze out the crop or hay field!! you better watch what you say or know more about it! ruts do not happen when the ground is frozen, all it does is benefit the farmer by trapping the snow!!

ha aha hahahaah. you seriously dont think that ruts can happen when the ground is frozen. so the ruts that we caused in my friends field with his quad in the middle of the winter are not real. hmm. they kinda have to be real for them to be there in the spring.

but then im also guessing you think they cant dig in the winter because the ground is frozen. how do some logging trucks cause ruts on frozen ground in the winter????? yes i know they try hard not to make any because of the fines and the impact of the environment.

Thanks! I guess I could sum all that up by saying; Driving a quad on a groomed trail and knowing you're wrecking it for so many others, yet not giving a shit, is inconsiderate and being ignorant to how those actions can affect other people.