Not the e-mail I wanted to see early this morning:



(Mailing list information, including unsubscription instructions, is located at the end of this message.) __

You are receiving this because you are a member of club near the Watertown area where on Tuesday June 17th at 7pm, the Attorney General's Office will be hosting a meeting concerning many issues with some affecting snowmobiling.
Meeting Location:
Case Middle School
1237 Washington St
Watertown NY 13601


Bad news came in today via e-mail
Below is a brief from NYSSA's Trail Coordinator Dave Perkins:

DEC has released proposed changes for use of all state lands in New York. Public comment period lasts only 45 days from the publishing date of May 21, 2008. There will not be any public hearings on these proposed rules.

The proposals for revision focus on Title 6 NYCRR, sections 190.0 and 190.8. There are wording changes and new paragraphs detailing the use of all state lands, including that by snowmobiles. Highlights include that snowmobiles are used only on trails designated by DEC. This would include lands where rights are owned and managed under conservation easement. New wording in Section 190.8 detail snowmobile use. Section ® states that it is illegal to operate a snowmobile on any state land outside the forest preserve except on those trail designated and marked as a snowmobile trail and only when covered by snow. An additional part states that frozen lakes can only be accessed if there is a designated trail to that frozen body of water. Additional wording restricts any activity, including snowmobiling, by a group greater than 20 people unless a permit is secured from DEC.

A lengthy section explains justification for the changes. It states that state land is now subjected to greater use of high impact uses such as snowmobiling. It states that the proposed regulations will allow for uses of snowmobiles on lands capable of withstanding the designated use. Additional statements discuss implementing a snowmobile speed limit of 25 mph on all trails on state lands for snowmobiles. The report also says speed limits would improve safety but would do nothing to reduce environmental degradation resulting from snowmobile use.

To read the full text of the proposed rules go to: http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/2359.html

25 mph lol yeah right whose gonna enforce that?

The heat has got to these lawmakers heads,,any thing to divert attention from the Clown Governor and the Circus adminstration in Albany,and NYC.

All truck trails already have a 25 mph speed limit for all vechiles. What's the big deal about that one?

That's not the problem with this new one Dick. Currently we can ride sleds anywhere on State land. This law restricts us only to designated trails. It also puts a clause in there stating there must be adequate snow. We use our Track Truck to brush since its a tracked vehicle. That would make that illegal. Also making it neccesary to get a permit for group rides greater than 20 people kinda phucks up our club rides and makes it a PITA to organize these things.

so what are we going to do?? thanks , ron

An additional part states that frozen lakes can only be accessed if there is a designated trail to that frozen body of water


Cant ride on frozen water unless a legal trail leads to it???? thats bullshit...

if they pass that i will sell my sled. i go right out of my backyard onto a frozen lake, if i cant ride that then theres no use in me having a sled since that means i will have to trailer EVERY time i want to ride, thats not gonna happen.

NY has to many fucking stupid laws...........

Between this crap and the firewood restirctions, the DEC is really screwing us over.

Guess I will just have to become an criminal. You know, those snowmobiling riding, firewood moving criminals.

They need something else to worry about.

We purposely don't lead our trails to any frozen body of water for safety reasons. This is the norm in most clubs in NY and the DEC knows it. Parks has made it nearly impossible to open any new trails so if this law gets through then all lakes in NYS will be off limits.

It's time for the showdown kids. Will you just stand around while the DEC runs our lives or will you join in and let them know how we feel.

The March on Albany and the DEC... Coming later this Summer.

Snowmobilers, ATVers, Hunters, Trappers, Fishermen, Boaters and anyone else that is fed up with State Government Treehuggers and their puppets the DEC.

RALLY ON!

It's a good thing that the world was built before the DEC came into effect, or else there would be no world.

Oh, there would a world. We just wouldn't be able to use it.

When is this going to happen??????? I'm in. These people are nothing but POS. Blind ass phuck for a governer - WTF!

Sometime after the legislators get back from Summer break.

Your written comments are needed Before July !

It is urgent that each club and snowmobiler reads the recently released proposed changes to Rule 190, Title 6 of NYCRR. Public comment period ends July 3rd, lasting 45 days from the publishing date of May 21, 2008. There will not be any public hearings on these proposed rules. These proposed changes are for all state lands and may have significant impacts on the way snowmobiling currently exists outside the Adirondack and Catskill State Parks. In other words, every county outside the State Forest Preserves is affected.

Clubs and individuals need to respond to and make comment on the proposed changes. Contact information to send comments is listed at the end of this Alert.

The Rule 190 revisions have been posted on the website. The proposals for revision focus on Title 6 NYCRR, sections 190.0 and 190.8. There are wording changes and new paragraphs detailing the use of all state lands, including that by snowmobiles.

Highlights include:

• snowmobiles are used only on trails designated by DEC, including lands where rights are owned and managed under conservation easement;

(How will trail relocation occur on easement lands?)

• section 190.8, section (g) states: “no person shall deface, remove, destroy or other wise injure in any manner whatsoever any tree, flower, shrub, fern, fungi or other plant like organisms, moss or other plant, rock, soil, fossil or mineral or object of archaeological or paleontological interest found or growing on State land …

(Underlined words and phrases are new additions to existing 1972 regulations. How would anyone venture onto state land without stepping on vegetation? What determines injury, defacing or destroying soil? How would this wording impact hunting and hiking? Even with a permit, how would clubs be able to complete pre-season maintenance?)

• section 190.8, section ®(1) states that it is illegal to operate a snowmobile on any state land outside the forest preserve except on those trail designated and marked as a snowmobile trail and only when covered by snow;
• section 190.8, section ®(2) it also states that frozen lakes can only be accessed if there is a designated trail to that frozen body of water;
• section 190.8, section (dd) restricts any activity, including snowmobiling, by a group greater than 20 people unless a permit is secured from DEC;

Following the sections of 190.0 and 190.8 is the Regulatory Impact Statement. In it are the department justifications for the proposed Rule changes. The second section is the Legislative objective. It states makes the following statements:

• The proposed rule changes will reduce potential dangerous situations as forest fires and snowmobile accidents;
• The proposed regulations will clarify where snowmobiles can be used which will ensure safe enjoyment of State land by directing these uses to areas that have the capacity to withstand such use.

A third section is entitled Needs and benefits. It states:

• that the nature of public recreation has changed since 6 NYCRR Part 190 was adopted in 1972 as recreation has been shifting away from more traditional passive uses such as hunting, fishing, and hiking to more high impact activities such as snowmobiling and bicycling;
• changing recreational uses has resulted in increased conflicts between different user groups;
• proposed restrictions are necessary to address the environmental damage and public safety issues resulting from unrestrained snowmobile and mountain bike use;
• current regulations for the control of snowmobiles (and other uses) on non-Forest Preserve lands are inadequate;
• the lack of regulations on these lands hinders the department’s ability to provide the public with a safe and enjoyable recreational experience;

An additional statement discusses implementing a snowmobile speed limit of 25 mph on all trails on state lands for snowmobiles. The report says speed limits would improve safety but would do nothing to reduce environmental degradation resulting from snowmobile use.

Missing from the Regulatory Impact Statement is any reference to any supportive data. They seem to be opinion statements. Is there unrestricted use of snowmobiles currently on state lands or are snowmobiles using trails designated by DEC? Regulations need to clarify that DEC has responsibilities to keep trails safe and passable. Closing a trail simply to avoid making necessary improvements is not fulfilling responsibilities. DEC UMP’s for the Adirondacks have stated that snowmobile trails suffer from degradation as a result of hiking uses. Citing snowmobiling as a high impact use is also unsupported.

The concluding section of the Needs and Benefits section states the several groups provided comment to the DEC and were generally supportive in nature. DEC includes NYSSA in the list of organizations. Commentary to Rule 190 revisions as presented to the public was not submitted to the DEC by the Association.

Comments are to be sent to Dave Forness, DEC Bureau of Land Management, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233 or email to lf190reg@gw.dec.state.ny.us.

I don't get it. I am a member of a club and tell all the people I can about this one and the state stealing $1 million from the trail fund, but no one I have talked to has heard anything about this. Why no mailing from the clubs???? Why no mailing from the NYSSA?????? I am telling you - not everyone has the internet. And the ones that do, not many go on the forums. Also very few people come on these type sites during summer months. Only makes sense that all these tree huggers do this stuff during the summer months so they can slip it past everyones noses. Come on NYSSA! Come on clubs, mail something out! We as an individual can only do so much.

hey guys, can somebody write something up like they did for the money, that we can just fill in our information and send it to these DEC guys, that would be great if somebody could do this so we can all give the same message as with the money, thanks, ron

WHEN WILL THIS RALLY ON THE CAPITAL BE!?!?! I WILL DEFINITLY BE THERE!!

Anyone have a response to this - like I said very few are on here in the summer.