Long story short.............. on the way to work (about a 20 mile stretch), I did the following:
pass on a double line before a hill because two cars pulled out in front of me (it was unsafe and I shouldn't have done it)
passed 1 car legally that was going 60
passed 5 vehicles at once (3 semis, two cars) hitting 70 MPH on a 2 mile straight stretch (in a legal passing zone)
passed 1 car that was going 60 and didn't quite make it back over before solid line (missed it by a few feet)
drove about 63 ish everywhere between the passes

Okay, ready....................... all while an off duty state officer was following me. So he had the city pull me over and hold me until he could get dressed and come write me. He was NOT on duty (plain clothes and his personal vehicle) following me. He said I deserved a ticket for "wreckless driving", so I should consider the "careless driving" a gift from him. Yeah, I regret the first pass, but the rest was no big deal.

So if I don't beat this one, it will make 5 points on my license. I hardly doubt given the circumstances a magistrate will let this one pass. If I spend the money to hire an attorney, think it can be beat or at least reduced?

Hope you can get it changed to something besides careless, the insurance points will kill ya for 5 years

sounds like you got screwed

Careless is 3 points and reckless is 6 points. Where is the 5 points coming from? Did he write you a speeding citition as well for the additional 2 points. I would set up an informal hearing and see what you could work out especially if you have a clean driving record. A formal hearing with an attorney is an option if your record is less then stellar. Good luck.

Already have two, careless adds three. 2+3 = 5.

I beat a reckless (drag racing) 6 pointer down to 10 over 2 points by going in front of a judge with the cop. I'd say you may have something since he was off duty. Were you legally detained by the city? City who?? Were you courteous to the officer?

As instructed by my lawyer, try to get it reduced for sure. Careless is the reduced charge for DUI, and if you ever get one, they'll see careless and 'assume' you've had one before. Good luck.

Just something for you to ponder! Maybe leave for work 10 minutes earlier, and enjoy your Coffee.... Just saying.

Yes, I agree. I'm salary and pretty much come and go as I please, so I wasn't even late. I really had no reason to even do it. I was just having a bad day and couldn't take following people doing 45-50 on a road everyobody normally drives 65 anymore. I was out of control. I'm getting older and wiser every day and trying to change my ways for the better.

No offense but....good luck.

The office probably wrote down pretty much the same thing you just wrote here and will have that with him when he goes in front of the judge. What was the speed limit on this road? I assume based on the scenario's you describe, plus the fact that you say you were doing 63 mph while not passing, that it was 55mph limit. The magistrate will take notice that you were making all the passes as well as traveling at 15mph over the speed limit, he may not know the exact speed but I assume the officer will say he paced you or just say "at a high rate of speed" to make his point.

You may get it reduced, I have had some good luck going to court and getting breaks. I also have had very minor offenses compared to this scenario.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

In front of a judge, like their attorney versus you by yourself with an attorney? Or was it a magistrate?

I was legally detained by the city officer and held about 5 minutes until the state officer showed up to write me. I was courteous, polite, etc., as was he. Not sure if him being off duty really matters or not. I'll have to check into that.

No, it was me, the cop and a judge in chambers ( I think that's what it was called).

That will get you farther with the system.

On duty off duty doesent matter from the sound of it he could have arrested you for Reckless. We have to now. Ask for an informal hearing and see if they will knock it down to something other then careless.

not condoning what you did, but we all have been guilty of such acts.
Memorial day weekend I was heading North and began to wonder if Buicks will go over 55mph......I have yet to see one doing the speed limit or faster.
The same weekend I discovered how proud I am of sledders that pull trailers at 70+mph in the snow and icey roads.....I got caught behind numerous campers and RV's that could barely muster a decent moving pace of 50mph on 2-lanes and just over 55mph on the freeway.
I was in a hurry and getting frustrated just like you were in this situation.

I would venture to say the best option is to take it to court.....the officer gets paid to go, so he will show. But alot of times you can get the charge reduced or sometimes the officer will work with you so long as you are presentable and courteous. I have gone to court for my last 4 tickets and always faired out much better than just paying the fine and taking the points, my wife hates me for "getting out of it". I have never gotten out of a ticket, they just re-word the violation or drop the points or even de-fer the points for 6monthes to a 1 year......and I pay the fine and court cost.
Where a suit, be early, only speak when spoken to, be polite to the officer, judge and all courthouse officials.....oh yeah, honesty helps to but don't offer any other information that is deterimental to your plea.

You have a couple of variables in your favor:
1: he wasn't in uniform or on-duty, that is really odd that you were detained by another officer and not immediately cited.
2: why careless, you said you passed the other traffic legally and without intention of harming yourself or other motorist
3: you were speeding, so maybe he could have issued a speeding ticket (see #1)
4: you could argue your speed when going with the flow of traffic, but since everyone else was going 55mph you are pretty much out of luck there, on any other day you might get away with 63mph.
5: maybe the judge will be drunk or just got laid and in a good mood
6: the officer maybe in the same condition as the judge (see #5)
7: the officer might not actually show up (not very likely)


good luck

LOL!


we've all had those days bro, i think a lawyer's advice would be good on this one...

Yup, contact a lawyer. My guess is to ask how he knew you were speeding, unless he has a radar in his personal car. If you passed in a passing lane how is that reckless, I know that you cut short coming into a passing lane but come on, how do you judge that to say when that is going to start.

Same thing happened to my wife, except it was an off duty state trooper that pulled out in front of her, forcing her to pass him and two other cars. I am sure he was embarassed for almost causing an accident, but he has the law on his side. He called into the city police, they pulled her over and wrote the ticket off of what he said, she went to an informal hearing and there was NO getting out of it regardless of what she or the officer said. She had to pay and do whatever the judge offered or go to court and fight it, and after the decisision was made to go to informal there was no backing out. Weird but like it says....its very informal. More of take it or leave it. The trooper that was embarrassed was able to make himself feel better by pushing the blame, and make the state some money. And that was all it was about....pay this fee or spend alot more for lawyers and still possible the ticket. sucks, but welcome to broken back Michigan! Good luck!

It's against the law to drink and drive too.

Damn URB... got a bit to say, eh? Remember, MOST of those campers aren't allowed to travel faster than 55mph... also remember these two words: gas mileage.


I think it was the crossing a double yellow up a hill pass that got him the careless.


I like your thinkin'.

You have a couple of variables in your favor:
5: maybe the judge will be drunk or just got laid and in a good mood
6: the officer maybe in the same condition as the judge (see #5)


That there is sum funny shit....., try to get it scheduled for Friday afternoon!!! Be there early and be quick with responses, let the oficer ramble on and on..., the judge will appreciate you....trust me....

Deff have an informal hearing....

Back when I had my 00 Camaro SS with almost 500 hp, I got pulled over on M-59 after passing a loooong row of cars led by a truck hauling horses going 35. I was going approx 125 by the time I got past everyone and a few seconds after I was letting the car coast, a state tropper came up over the horizon straight at me. Of course the nose of his car hit the ground and he immediattely whipped around and came after me. I pulled over in a church parking lot and assumed I was going straight to jail. He issued me a ticket for 97 in a 55 and just said to call the number and schedule an informal hearing. He didnt specify reckless driving at the time, he just handed it to me and left. I of course went to the courthouse in Howell and after pleading with the cop for 30 min in front of the judge in his chambers, the judge himself finally talked the cop into reducing it to a 75 in a 55 and no reckless driving. The judge liked that I hadnt had a ticket since 1994 (10 over) and also that I was pretty humble too. I had to literally beg to the cop to get this though not to mention he was 45 min late and showed up in shambles with his boots unlaced and half dressed like he had a rough night of drinking.....
Plead "guilty with an explanation" and just flat out dont accept anything less than 2 points and a fine IMO. good luck

You mean more than? Sounds like my racing ticket... I was well over 100 on Mound, he came up from the distance... no radar. He KNEW how fast we were moving, but couldn't prove it, since we were decel'ing by the time he caught us 1.5 miles later... can't believe I got out, but was factual, saying 'though I may have been speeding, I was in no way reckless, or a danger to anyone other than myself'. It was a divided road with biz's on it. :beer:

Exactly how I feel. My commute should be 35 minutes, but ends up being 45-50 most days. Its not uncommon for it to be over an hour. It gets old getting stuck behind Buicks, school busses that won't let you by, semis, tractors, etc. that refuse to even go the speed limit.

Listen to what John tells you/Newman/....or spend a bunch of money on a local attorney that knows the judge..better yet do you know the judge???

The cop told me in front of the judge that if a kid was chasing after a basketball or something and ran out onto 59, I wouldnt have been able to swerve or stop in time and therfore its reckless driving. Luckily the judge was fair and considered my record among other things that day....

I'd have asked "so just how close was this alleged basketball court? Or for that matter, how close could a person feasibly be? 59 out here... not very.

where were you???
are you in jackson like your location says?? thats one of the worst places to get pulled over for 1.
and id have to say theres a chance of gettin reduced but the judge will also look at your age and your driving record and say you should have known better. the state needs money so they'll try to get whatever they can outta ya..

"passed 5 vehicles at once (3 semis, two cars)" just gotta say another person in a hurry to get nowhere, be patient (trucker opnion, and i do the speed limit or 3-5 over). everytime i get passed while drivin a big truck pullin 130,000 lbs.+ i just hope they dont decide to hit the breaks right away and stop..98% of the time they pass and 3 miles later stop and hit the turn signal either that or do 90mph to pass and drop down to 50 after they are around...sorry to rant ..anyways know where your comin from though Good luck though on tryin to fight it.

Everyone else's advice is what I would say. Take it to a magistrate and plead guilty with explanation. Some times all they ask for is for you to say what happened and then the magistrate will offer you something. Usually the officer is in an informal/good mood at the hearing. Every once in a while the officer doesn't show and it gets thrown out. I know he was following you (pacing you), but a $150 radar detector is the best thing you can ever buy.

Everyone else's advice is what I would say. Take it to a magistrate and plead guilty with explanation. Some times all they ask for is for you to say what happened and then the magistrate will offer you something. Usually the officer is in an informal/good mood at the hearing. Every once in a while the officer doesn't show and it gets thrown out. I know he was following you (pacing you), but a $150 radar detector is the best thing you can ever buy.

Yeah but I figured that I should be humble since the cops 1st imprssion of me with me in my brand new lowered SLP edition SS--T-tops out with a built LS1 with long tube headers and no cats and then me sitting there at 22 yrs old with a wife beater and Oakley sunglasses that 20 over and no reckless driving was A-OK.....

Amen to that trucker/revegade!
I can appreciate where you are coming from...most people are oblivous to how much a truck weighs and how long it can take them to stop....and how long it takes them to get up to speed. Most TD are pretty decent but the "tortoise races" are unneccessary too. I can't tell you how many times I've watched 2 trucks racing each other uphill and downhill or traffic light to traffic light while traffic behind them is held up....almost as frustrating as Terrorist from Ohio running 70mph in the fast lane and refusing to move over.
Most TD are pretty good but everyone has to drive defensively nowadays.....most people have no clue what is going on around them or with the traffic ahead. I get pretty frustrated with oblivous and discourteous drivers....I have a very short temper when it comes to idiots on the road.....almost sounds like I just got to work after the morning commute!


I was also going to mention about the careless ticket (thread starter).
If the off duty LEO used his personal vehicle to "pace" your speed.....was his personal vehicle "verified/authorized" to pace you?
Did he have his vehicle inspected and approved for accurate speed/pacing, maybe his speedometer was mis-calibrated?
It happens...if he was rolling on 20's or 22's it would change the speed, or even a larger set of tires.

bwahahahaa....


I think his bigger issue is crossing the double yellow up a hill to pass... the rest can be debated/thrown out, but that one is gonna be the stickler.

With a good lawyer you can probably at least get it reduced or maybe even get it taken under advisement. This cop must have had a hard-on for you because my cop friends don't like to get involved when they're off duty unless it's something major like a wreck with an injury. The off duty thing may be to your advantage but you need to check with a lawyer. Where's Lawdog on this one?

Bad thing is, some of the 18's are starting to drive like the 4 wheelers.
I just love it when the constuction zone drops down to one lane. (me first,me first)

I watched an 18 wheeler pass a tow truck on a secondary road the other day. The tow truck was going 55 in a 55. The trucker was going at least 65. The 18 wheeler picked a long stretch where you could see and he went around him. I was very suprised to see that. I saw this happen in Ohio south of Norwalk.

Was it me? We have been running OH, It has to be one of the most boring states, and then to run 55 mph.

Supreme Court took away "under advisement" as an option 2 years ago...

I didn't see a Cat sticker on it. I was coming up on 250 from Ashland to get on 80 west. 65mph in Ohio is such a joke. I never see any less than 6-10 cops every time down there. It's cop crazy down there. I go 74 using my detector and scanning overpasses. If someone passes me goin 80, I get behind them. I'll let them take the bullet. The hwy patrol uses laser almost all of the time.

got that right, 99% of the times ive been in ohio ive only been on the turnpike, but yah theres not much to see, that and indiana are about the same farmfields with alittle bit of city. PA is a decent state to run in across 80 anyway the mountains are pretty cool thats the only route ive been on.. i dont really care for out of state drivin, ill stick to haulin around michigan,i get hooked up to a tandem flatbed and feel as if im wasting time, doesnt even feel like your pullin a load after your used to hauling 130,000 lbs. or more. that and i haul mostly out of northern michigan (millersberg,petoskey,alpena,west branch) once i get north of saginaw i just sit back and enjoy the ride, till later in the afternoon when i have to return to the city.