There was a posting in another topic that said:

"it is illegal for anyone under 16, or without a license to operate a snowmobile off their own private property"

I took the MB snowmobile safty course a couple years back and, as I recall, the only restriction was that an operator had to have a license to cross a roadway. However, there was no other restriction on minimum age as far as riding trails or other permissible areas. So, as I understood, a 14 year old (for instance) could ride the trails as long as Dad drives the machine across any roads.

Can anyone clarify ??

lots of 120's out there nowadays, and the old kitty cats... Can't imagine anyone over 16 would be riding one of them. Maybe they are for private property only, but I've seen quite a few on the trails (mom and dad in front of and behind), and many many more on the lakes.

Dad has to drive it across the street and has to supervise anyone under 16 without a license. This is on public land or private land that isn't your own.

Regardless of who crosses the road no one under 16, or without a license may operate a motor vehicle off their own private property regardless of sno trail or not. You cannot cross ANY road, wether it's #1 highway or the back gravel road without the above qualifications. I was stopped enough times as a kid to know, not to mention just read the ORV stuff MPI puts out.

Most times authorities look the other way if the sled is licensed and adults are present, but the law is as I said before. I don't imagine the insurance taken out on private land for trails covers underage riders either, not to mention pretty hard to find any trail where you never cross a road.

I have been riding trails on my own sled since I was 12. My dad used to always ride with me and we never had a problem exept for crossing roads. One time we were stopped at a check stop and the cop had just seen me cross a road by myself. He said it was fine for me to ride the trails as long as I was accompanied by an adult, however my dad must drive the sled across the roads. Regardless, I always crossed the roads by myself anyways. If you ask me though it seems more dangerous for an adult to have to cross a road then get off the sled and walk back across the road to bring the other sled across then to just have the kid drive across the same time as himself.

Did a bit more digging of my own ...

Page 5 of the ORV brochure on the MPI WEB site at http://www.mpi.mb.ca/PDFs/orvEng05.pdf states:

Children under 14 must not operate ORVs unless supervised, accompanied by, and always within clear view of:
■ a parent; or
■ someone at least 18, who is authorized by the child’s parent.

The same wording is used in the Manitoba Snowmobile Operator's Training Manual that I was given at the safety course a couple years back.

Page 8 of the operators guide also refers to the Road Crossing limitation:
"An Operator much be Sixteen years of age and possess a valid Drivers license to move or drive a snowmobile across a roadway."

I can't see anything in the above that restricts an operator to their own private property.

Note that the ORV brochure also says "You must be at least 16 to register an ORV." However ... registration and operation aren't the same thing.

So ... based on what I read ... and taking it to the extreme ... a six year old can ride the trails (on any size machine) as long as they are in clear view / supervision of an adult. (and the sled is registered by "someone" and has a snowpass of course ...)

I've heard the reference to being limited to one's own private property a few times ... but I've never seen an official document that says that. Anyone know if that exists ?

BTW ... not trying to get into the "how young it too young debate" with this. Of course I'm not going to let my 9 year old loose in the Whiteshell on my SDI ... wheter I can see him or not. Just trying to clarify what the official rules / regulations are.

Here's something the government is thinking about doing that I actually agree with for once. It keeps the young kids off the big sleds.

Government wants to ensure safety without being too restrictive. The following has been proposed:

a minimum age of 16 years be required to operate a full-sized snowmobile (greater than 300cc);
children between the ages of 14 and 15 be restricted to operating snowmobiles 300cc and under, with direct supervision by an adult (19+ years); or
completion of a training course be mandatory for all youth (under 16 or under 19) to operate a snowmobile.

The problem with this is as i said above...what trail can you ride that doesn't cross a road at one point or another? The rules are set up so that kids can run on their on property, or ditch...not crossing any bordering roads.

Are there any rules that explicity limit kids to their own property ??

Once across a road, is there a rule preventing a young rider from taking over again ? ie: if Dad drives one machine across then walks back to get the second one, can the young rider take over again on the other side of the road ?

Again ... as someone pointed out ealier ... that is a pain in the butt and hard to say if it is any safer than a young teen just riding across the road ... but I'm not debating the merits of the rules, just trying to understand them.

I would only assume by the deffinition by MPI that they mean to keep kids within a bordered area, and regardless of who crosses the road for them it's still illegal, think of it like having a DUI and losing your license and riding your sled in the ditch and hving your buddy cross the road for you, and then keep on going...is that legal?

I think it's just a lot of looking the other way with sledding, and your probably ok if your not doing anything crazy, but honestly no kid under 14 should be out of the yard anyway...you don't even have to be 10 ft away for something to happen out there.

DUI - why wouldn't it be legal ?? (assuming you aren't drunk while riding of course) There isn't anything I've seen that says one has to have a valid drivers license to operate a machine off of one's own property, or in a ditch, - only that you can't "cross" a road. I don't see how the law could make a distinction between never having had a license and having had one but losing it.

As for the 14 year old ... I don't disagree. But ... what about a 15 or 15 1/2 year old ? If you interpret the law as you suggest, then they wouldn't be able to ride on the other side of the road either. Again ... I'm not debating whether they "should" ride on the other side ... rather I'm trying to confirm what the "law" prohibits.

One more (hypotetical) scenerio ... I've got back lot cabin in the Whiteshell. I drive my 13 year old's machine across the road onto the lake and then he takes over to ride around the lake - but does not cross any other roadways in the process and is always in my clear view. Legal or not legal, and why ?

What about doing the same thing with my 15 year old - but I walk back inside the cabin while he rides around the lake. Legal or not legal, and why ?

To me, it's a stretch to read the statement "can't cross a road" and take that to mean that they have to stay on their own private property.

Good discussion BTW:

Your best bet is to call the local authorities where you plan to ride and get their stance on things, and then the officer's name and # just incase. They have left this with so many grey area's it's hard to know, but the crossing the road really IMO means never leaving the owner's property, or land with permission to ride on inside the road limits. I can't see why crossing the road is any more legal for them if an adult crosses, it's just the factor you must have a valid drivers license to operate a ORV off your own land.

http://www.mpi.mb.ca/PDFs/orvEng05.pdf

Here's the link, and if you read between the lines you pretty much have to be 16 to operate off your own land, considering you need a valid license to cross the road or ride even on the shoulder.

I can tell you guys from experience that you do not need to be over 16 to ride a sled on the trails, provided you are accompanied by an adult and he/she crosses the roads for you.

not quite on topic but-

the clincher with the DUI point of things would be too if you lost your license or you got restricted from driving while you lost your license. when i had mine taken away a few years back i was told i was restricted from operating any motor vehicle at all anywhere even on my own property. be it a sled a dirt bike a lawn tractor a boat anything that wasnt directly powered by me. that is what the rule was as it was explained to me. its a different thing though for an officer to actually come give me a ticket for cutting my 6 acre yard on my lawn mower. the cop would have to be really out ot get me to do that i was told, but they could if they wanted to be real sticklers.

as it was explained to me.

No way do they have any say on private land, as there are no regulations to say you need a license or registration to operate any kind of vehicle on your own land, whoever told you that was mis-informed...ask all my farmer buddies who lost their licenses..someone has to get the tractor to the field, but once it's there it's good to go! It is however illegal to drive anything off your property, whether it's a garden tractor, horse, sled or anything else.

When you have been charged and found guilty of Impaired driving you lose the right to drive any motorized vehicle for a period on not less than one year. I am not sure what the CC, case law or the provincial impaired driving legislation actually state in regards to cutting your back forty, but they do state ANY motorized vehicle. Like you said....if they are looking that close at you and try to nail you for cutting your 6 acres....then you musta really pissed them off.

They have no jurisdiction on your private property, unless you are causing harm to others, and or a noise complaint, and you can't operate off those premises, they are not that sticky on the rules, and if they did come and give you hell, you would win in court..hands down

Can you test that theory and get back to us!!

Sorry, I'm not JACKASS enough to do something stupid like lose my license for DUI, but hey....there's still hope for you bud!! I have however had cousins and friends who farm that had DUI's and never had any issues or warning not to use equpiment on their own land, as long as they did not transport it from field to field. I even know someone with a current DUI flying spray plane everyday this summer...so there are exceptions even to that.

ok

cops and dnr around here dont care to much about it. well they cant care to much cause they dont patrol.

ive been riding with friends on trails and across roads since i was 12. was on a 440 then. never been stopped by the cops or dnr. a dnr never said anything when we were parked on the side of the road when he stopped to see if something was wrong. we were 13 and the sleds were actually on the shoulder. he just said be safe and commented on the license plates on the sleds (valid and up to date). none of us had driver licenses either. living near town or anywhere actually its impossible to sled without crossing roads. even in ditches. in a mile (most areas out of the city) you are crossing a road to get to another field.

I'm wondering if will be legal to smoke on your sled if your doubling your kid when Gary No-can-Doer's new law goes into affect?

Gotta love socialism!

Hey, just be happy it hasn't been banned all together, cocaine is illegal everywhere, and yet smoking kills more people every year...I used to smoke so I have been on both sides the fence, but I'm more then happy since they stopped smoking in bars etc., and if you can't go without a cig. long enough to travel somewhere with your kids, then you have a serious problem.

I don't smoke either, and never have, but I'm sick and tired of a government that feels it needs to hold our hands from cradle to grave, and when we step out of line fine us in the name of personal safety. That being said you'd have to be an asshole to smoke with anyone else in a vehicle. Totaly inconsiderate. (Time to move out of province)

Let's get back to the original topic. I have a son that started riding a Z120 at 4 1/2. He then graduated to an Enticer 250 at age 8. By 11 I bought him a Puma 340. This past winter I let him drive an ext 550 with me on the trai8ls and he was 12. Some times we would trade off and he would drive my F7. He is now 13 and has almost 9 years of snowmobiling experience. I know some adults that don't have that. We can go for a 200 mile trip and he drives like one of the guys. There is nothing i won't let him try. The deal is you don't start on a 700 cc sled no matter what your age. That is why there is are so many tragedies. I started at age 6 on an El Tigre 340 and still remember the freedom. You have to walk before you can run, even as an adult. Age has very little to do with it, experience is the key. My 13 year old son has logged many more miles than half the adults out there. Any of you want to question that, take him for a dig through the woods. You'll be surprised! NUF said!

I bet ya my kid is a better driver than yours!!!!!!! na na na na. Just joking! relax. I totally agree with you. My kid was on the kitty cat at 3 years old, than after 2 years was on a 74 tc175. Out grew that so got him a Jag 440 at age 8. When he turned 10 bought him a F-5. Then a new F-7 when he turned 11. He can ride just as well and as fast and careful as any grown up. He was taught young and to respect the power and speed of a snowmobile. He is 13 now and has more experience than most 16 years olds. I agree with Mr T/A on this one. Experience is the key not just the age. Funny isn't it though, they don't want kids under 16 to drive snowmobiles or cars, but it is legal for a 14 year old to fly! An ultalight, that is, Go figure. puss

My 8 year old as you see in my avatar put 500 miles on his 340 sport this year. Although 300 of them were probably doing circles in the back yard. (my poor grass) I have a throttle stopper in place to keep the speed down. I agree with starting small and learning to ride first. I was going to put a front stabilizer on the old sled, but thought it might do him more good to learn to lean, and roll with bumps so it didn't go on. I understand why they have the law in place cause not every kid has a 5 acre yard to learn in, and some have a lot more opportunity to learn at a younger age in a controlled environment. Many do not, and those kids unfortunately get in over their heads, or as a teenager buy more power than they can safely handle. (That's very easy to do.) I personally helped out an 18 year old friend 2 years ago who thought jumping train tracks was fun until he broke his leg. I know we are talking about younger kids but his seat time was very low on a sled that was too fast for his experience. I know that it'd entirely possible for my kid to have this type of accident as well, but I would like to think that the additional years of help from Dad will reduce the chances.

Hey I had a 79 JD 340 when I was about 11 or 12 and that thing was good for 50+ mph, but the point is not about experience or bringing them up right with gradual steps, it's about the leagalities of an under age rider on the trails, and that's where you could be in trouble.

Only once have I ever been asked for my lic and reg. since I was old enough to ride...before that it was a weekly call to the parents by the municipal cops warnign that if they caught me and my friends out of our yards they would charge us...thankfully we were never caught. I don't want to be old man 4MULA tellin everyone to obey the rules, just sayin it's a risk you take, and regardless of their experience there are situations out of every parents control, and those are the one's that are why the rules are in place.

Ya!!!......What he said!!