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tirolskier
Thought many of you would be interested in this breaking news regarding the price of gasoline
tirolskier
QUOTE(tirolskier @ May 6 2008, 09:38 AM) *
Thought many of you would be interested in this breaking news regarding the price of gasoline



here is the article...

AP
Oil hits record $122 on $200 oil prediction, supply concerns
Tuesday May 6, 10:55 am ET
By John Wilen, AP Business Writer
Oil prices rise to record $122 a barrel on prediction of $200 oil, supply concerns

NEW YORK (AP) -- Oil futures blasted to a new record of $122 a barrel Tuesday, gaining momentum as investors bought on a forecast of much higher prices and on any news hinting at supply shortages. Retail gas prices edged lower, but appear poised to rise to new records of their own in coming weeks.

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A new Goldman Sachs prediction that oil prices could rise to $150 to $200 within two years seemed to motivate much of Tuesday's buying, although a falling dollar and increasing concerns about declining crude production in Mexico and Russia contributed, analysts say.

Light, sweet crude for June delivery jumped to a new record of $122 a barrel before retreating slightly to trade up $1.92 at $121.89 on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Oil prices have nearly doubled from about $62 a barrel a year ago, which Goldman sees as a sign that the world is in the midst of a "super spike" in oil prices. Analyst Arjun Murti said in a research note released Monday that prices would ultimately force demand to fall sharply.

Not everyone shares Goldman's view. Tim Evans, an analyst at Citigroup Inc., countered Goldman's analysis with a note predicting that crude prices could as easily fall to $40 a barrel as rise to $200 over the next two years because supplies are, as Evans put it, comfortable.

James Cordier, president of Tampa, Fla., trading firms Liberty Trading Group and OptionSellers.com, said Goldman's prediction isn't necessarily new: "We've heard numbers like these out of Goldman Sachs, especially over the last 12 months."

But there is a type of investor who responds to such predictions by buying, Cordier said.

A falling dollar on Tuesday also gave traders reason to buy. Investors often buy commodities such as oil as a hedge against inflation when the dollar falls, and a weaker greenback makes oil cheaper to investors overseas. Many analysts feel the dollar's protracted decline is the real reason oil prices have nearly doubled since last year.

Cordier said investors are also increasingly concerned about falling oil production in Russia and Mexico, which are both major oil producers. And prices are still supported by the concerns about supply disruptions in Nigeria and northern Iraq that first drove crude past $120 a barrel on Monday. Militant attacks in Nigeria over the weekend cut some production at a Royal Dutch Shell PLC facility. In Iraq, Kurdish rebels warned they could launch suicide attacks against American interests to punish the U.S. for sharing intelligence with Turkey after Turkey bombed rebel bases in Iraq on Friday.

At the pump, meanwhile, the national average price of a gallon of regular gas slipped 0.1 cent overnight to $3.61, according to AAA and the Oil Price Information Service. Analysts are split over how high gas will go; while prices have slipped lower since May 1, leading some analysts to say gas is close to peaking, others predict the fuel will follow oil's upward surge.

"You're going to see new highs for gas prices, probably for the weekend," said Cordier, who predicts an average price of $4 a gallon in the coming weeks.

In other Nymex trading Tuesday, June gasoline futures rose 5.24 cents to $3.1053 a gallon after earlier setting a new trading record of $3.1163. June heating oil futures rose 4.05 cents to $3.347 a gallon, and June natural gas futures rose 16.4 cents to $11.342 per 1,000 cubic feet.

In London, June Brent crude futures rose $2.30 to $120.29 on the ICE Futures exchange.

mxzwild
Thanks for ruining my day veryangry.gif
weather4connecticut.com
So that means places like Jenks (spelling?) will be 6.08 a gallon?????
SnowCrazed
I thought there was a glimmer of hope when it was down over $10 per barrel for the week last week. It was scary to hear the CNBC TV analysts say it like was a bad thing too.

What a mess! Wait until Tata starts selling their $2500 cars (do a google search for tata car if you don't know what I'm talking about). This is going to send the demand for fuel skyrocketing as consumers in countries who never had a car now can afford one thanks to Tata.
OTIS RX
When The People keep on electing politians that support radical enviromentialism, this is what you get.
The world has 200-300 years of oil, but the eco nuts won't let them go get it.
We are now held hostage by the countries that did go get it.
Duh!!
Smooth7
QUOTE(OTIS RX @ May 6 2008, 05:21 PM) *
When The People keep on electing politians that support radical enviromentialism, this is what you get.
The world has 200-300 years of oil, but the eco nuts won't let them go get it.
We are now held hostage by the countries that did go get it.
Duh!!



Thank god VP is made in a lab
weather4connecticut.com
Here is something that has not come up yet:

Wait until a hurricane goes in the direction of the Gulf of Mexico. The slightest threat of a storm coming within thousands of miles of those fragile refineries will have gasoline at $4.50-$4.75 a gallon. I expect this by the end of August. Gasoline always seems to catch diesel before diesel rises and with a hurricane threat it will pass the price of diesel.
SnowCrazed
QUOTE(OTIS RX @ May 6 2008, 05:21 PM) *
When The People keep on electing politians that support radical enviromentialism, this is what you get.
The world has 200-300 years of oil, but the eco nuts won't let them go get it.
We are now held hostage by the countries that did go get it.
Duh!!


While I agree with you that we are being held hostage and there are locations that "eco nuts" won't let us go get it, I don't think staying the course is right either! I'm not an eco nut but I for one would never want to see drilling in say, a national park!! There are so many alternatives that go undeveloped simply because it's simply easier to stay dependent on fossil fuel. Dennis Miller said: "America will solve the fuel shortage problem the day we run out of fuel!" There is too much truth in that statement and "if" that happened I'll bet the government will ration gas then good luck using it for a snowmobile over a car.
sledzil
This is what I do to save a few bucks. I ride a motorcycle, even in the rain, saving gas. I calculate I have saved 72 gallons since riding Jan 1 this year. I also buy gas in "bulk". When gas starts spiking, I fill the truck, all 3 bikes, and put another 30 gallons in cans. I am still running the bikes on gas bought at $3.10 about a month ago. It hurts to fill everything all at once, but it does help ride out the spikes. Last year when gas spiked, I was able to ride out almost the whole spike without getting more gas.

Buying in bulk also make it worth driving a little further to save money. I live near the CT border. If I drive north to Springfield Mass, I can save up to 15 cents a gal at times, but its 16 miles round trip. At 12 mpg, I need to buy a lot of gas to make it pay.
tirolskier
QUOTE(SnowCrazed @ May 7 2008, 09:02 AM) *
I for one would never want to see drilling in say, a national park!! There are so many alternatives that go undeveloped simply because it's simply easier to stay dependent on fossil fuel.



Amen to that!
dgree
QUOTE(sledzil @ May 7 2008, 12:21 PM) *
This is what I do to save a few bucks. I ride a motorcycle, even in the rain, saving gas. I calculate I have saved 72 gallons since riding Jan 1 this year. I also buy gas in "bulk". When gas starts spiking, I fill the truck, all 3 bikes, and put another 30 gallons in cans. I am still running the bikes on gas bought at $3.10 about a month ago. It hurts to fill everything all at once, but it does help ride out the spikes. Last year when gas spiked, I was able to ride out almost the whole spike without getting more gas.

Buying in bulk also make it worth driving a little further to save money. I live near the CT border. If I drive north to Springfield Mass, I can save up to 15 cents a gal at times, but its 16 miles round trip. At 12 mpg, I need to buy a lot of gas to make it pay.

Believe it or not buying in bulk is a very good way to lower your fuel cost, right now truck drivers are trying to organize co-ops in order to save. Jay peak has had a very good co-op on buying propane, I've been a member for years. Your annual dues is 50.00 a year and you pay 15 cents a gallon over cost. Its like saving .80/gallon which adds up considerably. I burn about 1,000 gallons of propane a year so to spend 50.00 to save 800.00 is well worth it.

Maybe HCS should start a gasoline co-op??? I don't have the faintest idia how to do it, but I'd join....
OTIS RX
QUOTE(tirolskier @ May 7 2008, 12:59 PM) *
Amen to that!


OK...here we go!! Take a few minutes to read and enlighten yourself

Too blunt a statement, and no one has ever mentioned drilling in a "national park". You're being led down the proverbial LEFT road.
It leads people to believe that places like Yellowstone, etc would be drilled in.
Not the case. People need to keep a perspective.
The entire top half of Alaska is either a national park or wildlife refuge. The spot they want to drill is a just a few square miles in Anwar. The arctic wildlife refuge is 19,000,000 acres!!!!!! It's a flat plateau!
Don't try and convince me that all the wild life is in danger and the elk and caribou will suffer great deaths at the hands on the cruel oil companies. Not happening!! The fruit cake lefties and enviros said the same thing when they ran the Alaskia Oil Pipeline back in the 70's. And guess what, everything is just fine. No animals were harmed. Period!

"No one denies that Anwar, like all Arctic areas, is a fragile environment. As naturalist Barry Lopez observes in Arctic Dreams, truck tracks in the tundra will last for decades. oooo truck tracks!!! There's massive distruction for you!

But it is also fact that oil men have devised methods of drilling Arctic turf that leave scarcely a scratch. In winter they build ice roads that disappear in the spring. The latest technology allows oil men to sink wells that travel as far as 5 miles horizontally below the surface, so that far fewer wells are needed. Arco is developing its 400-million-barrel Alpine find to the west of Prudhoe bay using only 100 of its 40,000 acres.

Facts matter little in a debate that has quasi-religious overtones. Environmental groups stymied efforts to open the refuge to drilling in 1989, 1991, and 1995. In February Congressman Bruce Vento (D-Minn.) introduced a bill that would make Anwar off limits to oil men forever. The bill has 108 cosponsors.

What's changing, however, and what may derail Vento's bill, is money, increasingly scarce at a time when Congress is trying to cut taxes without really curbing spending. "Before [the Sourdough find}, the easiest thing for the federal government to do about Anwar was nothing," says Adam Sleminski, a NatWest Securities oil analyst. "Now, ignoring it is a lack of fiduciary responsibility."

It is also ignoring the fact that drilling can now be done with relatively small environmental impact. Says Tony Knowles, Alaska's Democratic governor: "We can do development right, and I'm asking people with strong environmental values to come look at the technology."

In a recent interview, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX) discussed opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to responsible drilling. "ANWR is an area the size of the state of South Carolina. The part that would be drilled is an area the size of JFK airport or Washington National Airport or Dallas Love Field," said Sen. Hutchision. "It's an area the size of an airport because the new technology allows us to drill underground for just hundreds of yards and you don't have to have a lot of wells to drill anymore."

ALASKA OIL DRILLING ANWR

Alaska National Wildlife Reverve

HOW MUCH OIL & GAS IS IN ANWR'S COASTAL PLAIN?
High potential. The high potential for significant discoveries of oil and gas in ANWR has long been recognized. Early explorers of the region at the turn of the century, found oil seeps and oil-stained sands. However, since ANWR was established in 1960, exploration in the region has been restricted to surface geological investigations, aeromagnetic surveys, and two winter seismic surveys (in 1983-84 and 1984-85). No exploratory drilling has been accomplished in the area except for one well commenced in the winter of 1984-85 on Kaktovik Inupiat Corporation and Arctic Slope Regional Corporation lands southeast of Kaktovik on the Coastal Plain.

Location to big finds. Although little oil and gas exploration has taken place in ANWR, the Coastal Plain is believed to have economically recoverable oil resources. The Coastal Plain lies between two known major discovery areas. About 65 miles to the west of the Coastal Plain, the Prudhoe Bay, Lisburne, Endicott, Milne Point, and Kuparuk oil fields are currently in production. Approximately 1.5 million barrels of oil a day are produced from these fields, representing 25% of our domestic production. To the east of the Coastal Plain, major discoveries have been made in Canada, near the Mackenzie River Delta and in the Beaufort Sea.

U.S. Geological Survey - 1980. In 1980, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated the Coastal Plain could contain up to 17 billion barrels of oil and 34 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

U.S. Department of Interior - 1987. After several years of surface geological investigations, aeromagnetic surveys, and two winter seismic surveys (in 1983-84 and 1984-85), the U.S. Department of Interior (DOI), in its April, 1987 report on the oil and gas potential of the Coastal Plain, estimated that there are billions of barrels of oil to be discovered in the area. DOI estimates that "in-place resources" range from 4.8 billion to 29.4 billion barrels of oil. Recoverable oil estimates ranges from 600 million barrels at the low end to 9.2 billion barrels at the high end. They also reported identifying 26 separate oil and gas prospects in the Coastal Plain that could each contain "super giant" fields (500 million barrels or more).

U.S. Geological Survey - 1998. The most recent petroleum assessment prepared by the USGS in 1998 (OFR 98-34), increased the estimate for technically recoverable mean crude oil resources. (See Oil in the ANWR? It's Time to Find Out!)

Only drilling will tell. The geologic indicators are very favorable for the presence of significant oil and gas resources in ANWR, but the limited data means that there is a high level of uncertainty about how much oil and gas may be present. Consequently, current estimates represent the best scientific guesses. However, most geologists agree that the potential is on the order of billions of barrels of recoverable oil and trillions of cubic feet of recoverable gas and that these resources may rival or exceed the initial reserves at Prudhoe Bay. The validity of these estimates can be proved only by drilling exploratory wells. Authorization for exploration must be given by Congress and the President.

In 1996 the North Slope oil fields produced about 1.5 million barrels of oil per day, or approximately 25 percent of the U.S. domestic production. However, Prudhoe Bay, which accounts for over half of North Slope production, began its decline in 1988, and no new fields have yet been discovered with the potential to compensate for that decline.

TOP 10 REASONS TO SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT IN ANWR
1. Only 8% of ANWR Would Be Considered for Exploration Only the 1.5 million acre or 8% on the northern coast of ANWR is being considered for development. The remaining 17.5 million acres or 92% of ANWR will remain permanently closed to any kind of development. If oil is discovered, less than 2000 acres of the over 1.5 million acres of the Coastal Plain would be affected. That¹s less than half of one percent of ANWR that would be affected by production activity.

2. Revenues to the State and Federal Treasury Federal revenues would be enhanced by billions of dollars from bonus bids, lease rentals, royalties and taxes. Estimates on bonus bids for ANWR by the Office of Management and Budget and the Department of Interior for the first 5 years after Congressional approval are 4.2 billion dollars.

3. Jobs To Be Created Between 250,000 and 735,000 ANWR jobs are estimated to be created by development of the Coastal Plain.

4. Economic Impact Between 1977 and 2004, North Slope oil field development and production activity contributed over $50 billion to the nations economy, directly impacting each state in the union.

5. America's Best Chance for a Major Discovery The Coastal Plain of ANWR is America's best possibility for the discovery of another giant "Prudhoe Bay-sized" oil and gas discovery in North America. U.S. Department of Interior estimates range from 9 to 16 billion barrels of recoverable oil.

6. North Slope Production in Decline The North Slope oil fields currently provide the U.S. with nearly 16% of it's domestic production and since 1988 this production has been on the decline. Peak production was reached in 1980 of two million barrels a day, but has been declining to a current level of 943,000 barrels a day.

7. Imported Oil Too Costly In 2004 the US imported an average of 58% of its oil and during certain months up to 64%. That equates to over $150 billion in oil imports and over $170 billion including refined petroleum products. That¹s $19.9 million dollars an hour! Including defence costs the number would be nearly a trillion dollars.

8. No Negative Impact on Animals Oil and gas development and wildlife are successfully coexisting in Alaska 's arctic. For example, the Central Arctic Caribou Herd (CACH) which migrates through Prudhoe Bay has grown from 3000 animals to its current level of 32,000 animals. The arctic oil fields have very healthy brown bear, fox and bird populations equal to their surrounding areas.

9. Arctic Technology Advanced technology has greatly reduced the 'footprint" of arctic oil development. If Prudhoe Bay were built today, the footprint would be 1,526 acres, 64% smaller.

10. Alaskans Support More than 75% of Alaskans favor exploration and production in ANWR. The Inupiat Eskimos who live in and near ANWR support onshore oil development on the Coastal Plain.

The 19 million acre Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) lies in the northeast corner of Alaska. The entire refuge lies north of the Arctic Circle and 1,300 miles south of the North Pole.

The Coastal Plain area, comprising 1.5 million acres on the northern edge of ANWR, is bordered on the north by the Beaufort Sea, on the east by the U.S. Canadian border, and on the west by the Canning River. The Kaktovik Inupiat Corporation and Arctic Slope Regional Corporation (both Alaska Native corporations) own 94,000 acres in the Coastal Plain surrounding the village of Kaktovik.

At its widest points, the Coastal Plain is about 100 miles across and about 30 miles deep and covers an area slightly larger than the state of Delaware. Along the coastal area, the plain is an almost featureless expanse, barren and dotted with thousands of unconnected small ponds; the area to the south becomes gently rolling, treeless hills which merge into foothills and then into the northern edges of the Brooks Range.

There is a Native population of about 220 residents at Kaktovik, a village on Native owned lands at Barter Island, adjacent to the Coastal Plain and within the boundaries of ANWR. If ANWR was a state, it would be larger than 10 other states

ANWR Refuge Facts - "Since North Slope oil resources represent a quarter of U.S. oil reserves, the need to access them has accelerated development of environmentally responsible, cost-effective practices and technologies. If Prudhoe Bay were developed with today's technology, its footprint would be 64 percent smaller: the drilling impact area would be 74 percent smaller, roads would cover 58 percent less surface area and oil and gas separating facilities would take 50 percent less space."

(Source: Environmental Benefits of Advanced Oil and Gas Exploration and Production Technology, Department of Energy 1999)
Thanks to: http://www.anwr.org




It has absolutely nothing to do with safe drilling, but purely a political stance by extreme enviro groups lobbying the Dems in Washington.

Don't take a left or right stand on this. Take a common sense stand and free us from foreign oil while new fuels are developed over the next 100 years. Even the big oil companies say that oil shouldn't be any higher than $50/ barrel. It's Wallstreet and the fact that our hands are tied to increase supply to meet demand that is causing this. We need to let free markets run this, not the Gov't and their pet enviro groups!
It's fine to protect the enviroment. Who's not for that? Just use your heads about it!!
JOEZREVIT
Good lord Otis i have to hang out with you more often! I might just get an education!
SnowCrazed
QUOTE(JOEZREVIT @ May 7 2008, 04:11 PM) *
Good lord Otis i have to hang out with you more often! I might just get an education!


Google, cut, paste. Not so hard Joe! OTIS RX - that wasn't meant to be mean!! However, I don't support the strategy of extending our dependence on fossil fuels by opening up more drilling because it is the easiest thing to do, supports the current infrastructure and might have the quickest impact on consumer price. If we invest in alternatives AND REDUCE our dependence on fossil fuels for everyday driving it will only help the snowmobiler and his wallet in the future! I guess while I'm at it I'll admit that I don't support a “vacation” from the federal or state gas tax either!! It’s not that I don’t need the money but it doesn’t help solve the gas price problem and will only add to our state and federal deficits. I would however be for the feds and states taking a gas tax vacation and investing it and funding alternatives!
krellheat
More than $5.00 a gallon.
tirolskier
holy cr#p Otis.... You, or should I say Google, make a valid point about drilling in ANWAR, but my argument is that doing so is just a temporary fix to our oil dependency. Drilling there is akin to the duct tape over the broken pipe. Sure it will work for the short term, but the tape is not addressing the issue of finding oil alternatives.

JOEZREVIT
QUOTE(SnowCrazed @ May 7 2008, 04:44 PM) *
Google, cut, paste. Not so hard Joe! OTIS RX - that wasn't meant to be mean!! However, I don't support the strategy of extending our dependence on fossil fuels by opening up more drilling because it is the easiest thing to do, supports the current infrastructure and might have the quickest impact on consumer price. If we invest in alternatives AND REDUCE our dependence on fossil fuels for everyday driving it will only help the snowmobiler and his wallet in the future! I guess while I'm at it I'll admit that I don't support a “vacation” from the federal or state gas tax either!! It’s not that I don’t need the money but it doesn’t help solve the gas price problem and will only add to our state and federal deficits. I would however be for the feds and states taking a gas tax vacation and investing it and funding alternatives!
I know i was just screwing with Otis! I know him pretty good. But you guys are definitely in tune with what is going in our society alot more than the rest of us. Alot of us just deal with the gas prices but you guys do the investigating. Keep some of us slightly less intelligent fellas informed.
MJR
Stole this from someone posting in another state forum but it hits the nail right on the head!!

There is no gas shortage. There is an unwillingness to get more available to the public. If you sold catnip, and people were buying it at record pace, so you raised your price because of the high demand and people still bought it, and you were making money hand over fist, what is the incentive to make your catnip cheaper? We're screwed boys. No matter what we do, the booming economies of India and China are what's driving our prices up right along with corporate greed and enviromentalists. We've sown the seeds by letting our great manufacturing companies outsource our jobs to places like India and China (imagine that, the countries that have our jobs) are taking us to the bank. Good luck, we're all gonna need it. Until people realize that they dont DESERVE $15 an hour to insert peg "a" into hole "b" when Habib or Ping Pong are willing to do it for .50 cents an hour, our economy is going to be shit. As much as it sucks, our manufacturing went oveerseas because "We the People" demanded too much money for doing brainless jobs, and because corporate big wigs saw a way to pad their wallets. I may have too much faith in the system because I honestly believe that the CEO's would rather employ Americans, but it became too expensive to do it.


serbiesnow
$8 a gallon gas!!?? Well while nothing makes my blood boil more than this topic,. i also couldnt give a shit. Cause the 'stupid Americans' keep electing these morons who will not allow a new refinery to be built, we cant explore for more oil, so frek it, I make enough money so it wont affect me, screw the little guy IMO,..let him suffer. Wait till it costs $2400 to fill your oil tank to keep your house heated for a month this winter cause its goingto be COLD (despite the global warming Bullshit) I dont care, I heat with wood and burn 150 gallons a year for my hot water,..so bottom line is 'screw them! " let society fall apart, i dont care anymore, we earned it,..and all in the name of clean air, and all that crap,...have a great day at the pumps,.hehehe. Oh yea, at at my camp in Vt right now watching my TV and DVD player from solar power,...i heard the electricity went out in town yesterday from a bad accident,..didnt know about it and didnt care....
tirolskier
I read the other day that oil has been UNDERPRICED for thirty years in this country, and now the big oil companies like Exxon/Mobil and Texaco are beginning to make their money. Gone are the days when you could fill up the car or truck for 20 bucks. Both Obama and McCain recognize that our foreign oil dependency and oil dependency in general has gotton out of hand nad vow to do something about it. Bush hasn't done a thing to remedy this record increase in prices or actively seek alternative fuel sources except watch gas prices triple during his time in office.
catrrider600
Oh no. I was wondering how long it would take here to get the old "Blame Bush" machine cranked up. The real problem has been noted here, so I won't go into it, but I gotta tell you, there is no fix any politician can make for overpopulation and overuse of natural resources short of rationing. Some here might remember that from the '70s. It wasn't pretty. 5,6,7 bucks, it won't matter. The economy is a house of cards, and enegy prices this high will in time break it. There are some that will not even break even after buying gas to drive to work.
serbiesnow
QUOTE(catrrider600 @ May 8 2008, 04:12 PM) *
Oh no. I was wondering how long it would take here to get the old "Blame Bush" machine cranked up. The real problem has been noted here, so I won't go into it, but I gotta tell you, there is no fix any politician can make for overpopulation and overuse of natural resources short of rationing. Some here might remember that from the '70s. It wasn't pretty. 5,6,7 bucks, it won't matter. The economy is a house of cards, and enegy prices this high will in time break it. There are some that will not even break even after buying gas to drive to work.

You got it right, not many people will admit it but its all boiled down to way too many people on this planet. The good times are over, period. Its going to be one hell of a rough ride for the younger generations,..good luck!
tirolskier
thanks for all of your responses and for adding your input via the poll. If I were to do the poll again, I might need to add "$5 or more" as one of the options. See you all in the fall.
holdin' it to the grip
Do any of you "lock in" your oil prices? My company is locking in at $3.59 this year and I was wondering what others are locking in at?
Ralphf74
a couple things for consideration about alternative energy/fuel/etc;
Hybrids; You will not hear any of these ideas, etc in any form of mainstream media. I have never really been in a car accident, but the thought of having the added risk of electrocution added to the mix if I was involved in one is enough to keep me away from a hybrid. My brother works af a Ford dealership, and then when the hybrid "Escape" was introduced, all the techs had to be trained in the use of a fiberglass hook to "rescue the guy working on the hybrid Escape, should he suddenly be electrocuted. Does the construction of those batteries create any environmental waste?. Also, and maybe its just me, but those batteries are not going to last forever. Where are they going to wind up?. "You mean its going to cost me $100.00 to discard the old batteries when I spend $2000 to replace them with new ones"??. They will wind up in vacant lots, the woods, streams, dumpster, etc.
While there should be a serious effort made to find something viable that can be used in our daily lives, I am fairly certain that nothing can really replace the internal combustion engine. Can you imagine digging a foundation with a machine that runs on electric, or water, etc?. The new Chevy Tahoe hybrid...Bravo.. "Dual Mode". But you cant tow with it. What good is it?. My brother is a police officer, and his chief ran right to the Chevy dealership the other day to buy a new Chevy Tahoe hybrid. Good thing he mentioned towing his boat. "Oh, you cant tow with this". It will put too much strain and drag on the electric components and burn them out. We probably all saw the video of the ridiculous electric snowmobile. I have seen electric motocross bikes. They cant be serious. We need oil. Having someone tell us we need to end our dependency on it and forcing us to pay $4.00 per gallon for gas is ridiculous. The "catnip" story has a 2nd chapter; someone else begins making and selling catnip, because they can, and the price of catnip falls. Being that oil prices are driven by the futures market/wall street, a decision/proclomation resulting in the eminent drilling/harvesting/refining of our own oil products would more than likely result in an immediate drop in price of oil/etc. We cannot strangle ourselves while the research/etc is ongoing.
Anyway, just a few thoughts/ideas...
SnowCrazed
QUOTE(Ralphf74 @ May 23 2008, 09:48 AM) *
a couple things for consideration about alternative energy/fuel/etc;
Hybrids; You will not hear any of these ideas, etc in any form of mainstream media. I have never really been in a car accident, but the thought of having the added risk of electrocution added to the mix if I was involved in one is enough to keep me away from a hybrid.


I guess electrocution is an added concern but I'm sure one wouldn't be thinking about it after the explosion and fire from the gas!!

Here is an alternative to a hybrid: http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/0...etro/index.html
Ralphf74
talk about timing. Just hung up with my brother who works at the Ford dealership who told me they had to change the battery on an Escape hybrid today. He said that it is located in the rear under the floor, and the thing was about 3 1/2 feet by about 2 1/2 feet, and a foot in height. He said they needed the engine hoist to get it out. He said in looking at it, the immediate thought was having a child (or anyone) in the back seat and getting rear ended. The interior, especially the rear area would be bathed/splashed in battery acid. No way.

Also,
have you ever driven a Geo Metro??. I had the luxury of renting one in Orlando Florida several years back. Yikes!. Yes, it was good on gas, but it was frightening to drive, especially on I 95. It was like driving a go cart on the roads with actual full size cars. To go this route is yielding to the way of Europe and the reasons they drive those tiny little pieces of garbage. We like automobiles here. Real automobiles. An @ 1000cc three cylinder works well in my Yamaha Vector, but it did not work very well in a car trying to merge into traffic doing 65 miles per hour with me, my wife, and son inside.
IcePrincess
QUOTE(sledzil @ May 7 2008, 12:21 PM) *
This is what I do to save a few bucks. I ride a motorcycle, even in the rain, saving gas. I calculate I have saved 72 gallons since riding Jan 1 this year. I also buy gas in "bulk". When gas starts spiking, I fill the truck, all 3 bikes, and put another 30 gallons in cans. I am still running the bikes on gas bought at $3.10 about a month ago. It hurts to fill everything all at once, but it does help ride out the spikes. Last year when gas spiked, I was able to ride out almost the whole spike without getting more gas.

Buying in bulk also make it worth driving a little further to save money. I live near the CT border. If I drive north to Springfield Mass, I can save up to 15 cents a gal at times, but its 16 miles round trip. At 12 mpg, I need to buy a lot of gas to make it pay.



How the heck were you riding your motorcycle January 1st????? Regardless of the snow, ice, cold temps, and salt all over the roads there is sand that is a huge hazard...until after spring rains have a chance to wash the roads clean...crazy...no matter the gas prices you won't find me on a motorcycle until sometime in May!
tirolskier
QUOTE(Ralphf74 @ May 23 2008, 03:51 PM) *
To go this route is yielding to the way of Europe and the reasons they drive those tiny little pieces of garbage. We like automobiles here. Real automobiles. An @ 1000cc three cylinder works well in my Yamaha Vector, but it did not work very well in a car trying to merge into traffic doing 65 miles per hour with me, my wife, and son inside.


you make some interesting points Ralph in your two posts, but refraining from driving a hybrid because of a fear of being bathed in battery acid seems a bit much. I also take umbrage to your comment about European automobiles being pieces of garbage. Let's not forget that European "pieces of garbage" are Mercedes, Volvo, BMW, VW, and Porche. With the exception of Porche perhaps, the first four manufacturers make the safest automobiles on the road. Please don't tell me that your brother at the Ford plant thinks his vehicles outperform a BMW, Mercedes or a Volvo.
My second point about your "tiny pieces of garbage" comment is that the current gas prices that we have been whining about for the past 6 months, the Europeans have been dealing with for twenty years. I ski in Austria every March and I always pay about 1.10 Euro per LITER! Translated that is about 3.30 Euro per gallon, and with the current exchange rate is about $5.50 a gallon. These prices have been steady over there for quite some time. ALL the cars over there are a bit smaller and get good gas mileage because gas is so damn expensive. When everyone on the road is driving a smaller car, one also doesn't mind driving a small car. I agree with you that it is scary as hell merging in to I95 in a Metro with huge Suburbans right next to you.
sledzil
QUOTE(IcePrincess @ May 23 2008, 06:55 PM) *
How the heck were you riding your motorcycle January 1st????? Regardless of the snow, ice, cold temps, and salt all over the roads there is sand that is a huge hazard...until after spring rains have a chance to wash the roads clean...crazy...no matter the gas prices you won't find me on a motorcycle until sometime in May!


Actually, I have found that the roads are are in good shape within 3 days of a snowstorm. Granted, I do live in CT where its a bit warmer during the day. Even if the temps stay down below 20, the ice will dissapear after a number of days due to evaperation. The challenge comes during the morning when leaving the house at 5:30am. Any melting has refrozen on the road overnight. My only worry is crossing a bridge that passes over the CT River due to the possibility of frost. Looking at my M/C commute chart, I rode to work Jan 7,8,9,10,17 and 21. So far, I have 46 commutes, saving 111 gallons so far. My goal is 150 commutes for the year, saving 361 gallons of gas, and I am well on track to accomplish it.

Cold isn't an issue, my motorcycle gear is also my snowmobile gear. Sand, just assume every curve and corner will have sand so there are no suprises. Ice, on the highway, pull in the clutch and coast over the ice patches. On side streets and parking lots, ice can be driven around. Snow, well, it sucks. I've been cought in several inches of snow in my younger days. The best thing to do then is leave early, or just leave the bike at work and grab a ride home in somebodys car.

The bike ridden does make a difference. My 86 Goldwing with 129k miles is great for bad weather. The CG is very low, and if I drop the bike, the engine guards hold it up. I regularly ride dirt roads in VT, so I am used to the bike moving around under me.

Riding all year in all weather conditions is a risk. So is riding at all on a M/C, or sledding. I know that riding in Woodford is a risky area due to the high traffic and speeds on those trails, but I go anyways. I manage the risks I take as best I can, wear protective gear, and have fun.





Camp Rider
Dropped $3.00/barrel today. Will be interesting to see if the price at the pump drops tonight!!!
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