These are both 72P chains 13W for 24/39 gears. Which is the stronger one ??
Auggie
Full Version: Chain
QUOTE(Auggie @ Apr 23 2008, 05:38 PM) 
These are both 72P chains 13W for 24/39 gears. Which is the stronger one ??
Auggie
Auggie
I say the one on the right.
Yah Jim, I am leaning towards that one too but I am no engineer so I thought I would seek the expertise of this form. Anybody have the answer ??
Auggie
Auggie
in theory, the one on the left should be stronger as you are distributing the load more evenly across the pin, eliminating concentrated loads.
Good question Auggie. I'd like to see a pull test done to see which one lasts longer. Maybe the answer lies in which part of the chain is prone to failure. Maybe the part/section/component that determines that most is on the other side of the chain (Chain wear on the gear side causing it to ratchet the chain on the gear causing large spikes of strain on the chain links). Another factor may be how much each chain has been used, unless they are both new. Are they both produced out of the same strength steel? You could put the "stronger" chain on a sled but if it is abused more (Holding it wide open while hitting bumps, hard take offs where the sled is locked down and doesn't spin ect..) and the stroger chain might not last much longer than the weaker chain. Just some thoughts...
As for strength initially they would be equal, as wear is introduced the chain on the right would excell. The reason is the nunber of actual pivot vectors across the individual pins.
The chain on the left would have 11 seperate vectors while the one on the rigth would have 7.
The best chain is the one that never snaps or stretches. That is why many bike manufacturers have gone with a synchronous belt. Even some aftermarket sled shops (CMX) are doing it as well. Less rotating mass, more efficiency, zero stretch. BUT expensive.
The chain on the left would have 11 seperate vectors while the one on the rigth would have 7.
The best chain is the one that never snaps or stretches. That is why many bike manufacturers have gone with a synchronous belt. Even some aftermarket sled shops (CMX) are doing it as well. Less rotating mass, more efficiency, zero stretch. BUT expensive.
QUOTE(Thundercat_1000 @ Apr 24 2008, 06:54 AM)
in theory, the one on the left should be stronger as you are distributing the load more evenly across the pin, eliminating concentrated loads.
BINGO! the plates being spread apart like that are putting less stress on the pin in the contact areas, basically it makes it so there are numerous shear off points whereas the one all bunched together only has a few shear off points.
QUOTE(mikesnowman @ Apr 24 2008, 08:40 AM)
As for strength initially they would be equal, as wear is introduced the chain on the right would excell. The reason is the nunber of actual pivot vectors across the individual pins.
The chain on the left would have 11 seperate vectors while the one on the rigth would have 7.
The best chain is the one that never snaps or stretches. That is why many bike manufacturers have gone with a synchronous belt. Even some aftermarket sled shops (CMX) are doing it as well. Less rotating mass, more efficiency, zero stretch. BUT expensive.
The chain on the left would have 11 seperate vectors while the one on the rigth would have 7.
The best chain is the one that never snaps or stretches. That is why many bike manufacturers have gone with a synchronous belt. Even some aftermarket sled shops (CMX) are doing it as well. Less rotating mass, more efficiency, zero stretch. BUT expensive.
i disagree, more individual points of contact are going to produce less wear and distribute the load more equally across the pin.
QUOTE(mikesnowman @ Apr 24 2008, 08:40 AM)
As for strength initially they would be equal, as wear is introduced the chain on the right would excell. The reason is the nunber of actual pivot vectors across the individual pins.
The chain on the left would have 11 seperate vectors while the one on the rigth would have 7.
The best chain is the one that never snaps or stretches. That is why many bike manufacturers have gone with a synchronous belt. Even some aftermarket sled shops (CMX) are doing it as well. Less rotating mass, more efficiency, zero stretch. BUT expensive.
The chain on the left would have 11 seperate vectors while the one on the rigth would have 7.
The best chain is the one that never snaps or stretches. That is why many bike manufacturers have gone with a synchronous belt. Even some aftermarket sled shops (CMX) are doing it as well. Less rotating mass, more efficiency, zero stretch. BUT expensive.
Not sure I understand the pivot vectors as it is a somewhat complex statics equation with friction, wear and centrifugal forces involved. The individual links are not fixed together so you still have the same number of point loads where each plate meets the pin. They are just more concentrated in the right chain. If you did a bending moment diagram you would see higher point loading in the right chain...
Jesus, flash backs of college here....
I knew this would happen 
Auggie
Auggie
QUOTE(Auggie @ Apr 24 2008, 12:02 PM)
I knew this would happen
Auggie
Auggie
Ok, I am throwing in the white towel at this juncture!!!
Don't give up ! Call some of your collage buddies. We need to know .
Auggie
Auggie
QUOTE(Auggie @ Apr 24 2008, 12:29 PM)
Don't give up ! Call some of your collage buddies. We need to know .
Auggie
Auggie
Why not go with a 15 wide setup??
Well, I have reverse but I could go with a 15W top gear and chain but I have so many 13W chains and gears that I hate to spend the bread. I only have maybe 160 HP so I think I could get away with a 13W but that is a good idea.
Auggie
Auggie
In theory the chain on the left has more wear potential points beacuse of all the seperate plates in different POSITIONS. They will all have wear on the the area that touches the plate next to it since they all are in different planes during rotation. The chain on the right may have an equal amount of plates but they are not all moving against eachother. So there are 11 wear points vesus 7. On the plate, not the pin. Does it matter? Not really. More important is the manufacturers tolerances. Silent chain is very expensive and I would imagine that all the OEM's go cheap chinese. I have never had a chain related failure. Things to remember are to always use the biggest gears you can for your ratio. Also to run the chain as loose as possible without ratcheting. The tight side ratio is 5:1. (I think, a bit fuzzy cuz its been a while). Chain drives are very efficient. Most people think they are not.
Well, I installed the chain on the right and will check it after next season.
Auggie
Auggie
I have used both types, the chain on the left is far stronger than the one on the right.
Don
Don
Thanks Don.
I just use a 15 wide although I broke one this year.
I just use a 15 wide although I broke one this year.
QUOTE(mikesnowman @ Apr 25 2008, 08:36 AM)
Silent chain is very expensive and I would imagine that all the OEM's go cheap chinese.
You shouldn't guess at things.
I design the machine that probably put them chains together (depending what sled it is) right here in NY. I am told we make chain for all the big 4 makers.
The chain on the right of your picture is referred to as "block lace".
Found this PDF online that may be of use to you for silent chain (aka HYVO) http://www.tayloredge.com/reference/Mechan...SilentChain.pdf
I can't see the OSG's of your chain but I am wondering if the links say "MORSE" on them or "LB". Linkbelt was a company in Indiana years ago that was bought by BorgWarner Morse TEC.
I have seen both chains in your picture be tested for strength and let me tell you, when they go.. get out of the room. Its like a bomb.
I don't work in the area of product testing of course so my input is strictly that. I just design the machines doing the work.
I will ask the correct people that work in that department monday and see what one pull tests better and what the advantages and disadvantages of the designs are (as far as possibly where is concerned). I shouldn't post exact numbers on the internet as to what pulls what and wear testing.. but I will let you know what I can.
I exploded a chaincase on a friends f111 indy 650 years ago, the whole case and part of the belly pan grenaded. It sounded like a bomb going off under the hood. The early 650 chains were not designed for over 100hp.I'm running the "true pitch" 13w setup on my 96 tcat. Anyone run these before?
Arcticcatmatt, the writing on the side links is as follows:
LB
837
USA
Auggie
LB
837
USA
Auggie
You have a PM
Hello Auggie-----------I have blown a few 13 wides in my years on cats---------but never a 15 wide.
Let us know what the guy finds out that works in the shop that makes em---------will be interesting.
Still cool here in the am's and the grass keeps growing......................what do you think of a 22/37 for 660 with my 800zrt???????? dennis
Let us know what the guy finds out that works in the shop that makes em---------will be interesting.
Still cool here in the am's and the grass keeps growing......................what do you think of a 22/37 for 660 with my 800zrt???????? dennis
QUOTE(Mutta @ May 25 2008, 12:33 PM)
Hello Auggie-----------I have blown a few 13 wides in my years on cats---------but never a 15 wide.
Let us know what the guy finds out that works in the shop that makes em---------will be interesting.
Still cool here in the am's and the grass keeps growing......................what do you think of a 22/37 for 660 with my 800zrt???????? dennis
Let us know what the guy finds out that works in the shop that makes em---------will be interesting.
Still cool here in the am's and the grass keeps growing......................what do you think of a 22/37 for 660 with my 800zrt???????? dennis
Arcticcatmatt was supposed to see if they did any strength tests on them chains but no news so far.
Gears for grass drags ??
Auggie
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