Let's just say for the sake of arguement that something will be done in WI to try and curtail drinking while sledding. I am not talking about have ONE drink at lunch or dinner, more like something that will put you over 0.05.
You can pick as many answers as apply and feel free to give any comments you want.

What does/would keep you from drinking while snowmobiling in Wisconsin?

A. Doesn't apply to me, I do not drink any time.
B. The current law ($700 fine)
C. The current law if there was significant more enforcement, at least 2 times the arrests
D. The current law with fines of $2000 first offense, $4000 second, $6000 for subsequent
E. Current law with the addition that is goes on your driver's license
F. Current law plus you forfeit your snomobile
G. If nothing B thru F will do it, is there a combination of B thru F that would?

The reason I ask is that I don't think that tagging your DL is proper nor will it be effective. We just had a club meeting and some guys were discussing this and they thought that your DL was already to be tagged and it didn't stop them from drinking and riding. Also, a guy from IL got a OWI on a sled in WI and guess what, he had 2 DUIs in his car in IL. So he won't care if his DL get's tagged as he didn't with his car, twice.
I really have no clue as to what will significantly reduce drinking and riding in WI as I don't have to think about it since my answer is A. Well, what would work for you?

i suppose D and F would do it but they would have to pry my sled away from dead fingers cuz thats the only way they would get it!

What makes me and my family/friends not go drinking and driving is some thing called common sense. If you are out drinking and driving then plain and simple you are a dumb ass no matter what vehicle you are operting. Granted you may not hurt yourself but the odds are that you are going to hurt or kill some inocent person. I can say those odds due to I have plenty of first hands experience in seeing and dealing with those injured/killed by intoxicated drivers. And I feel that if they treated DUIs on any vehicle the same as they do autos maybe it would help-not saying that there are those that don't care because there are some out there that will continue to opperate a vehicle even with DL revocation and if some one is caught under the influence there should be jail time automaticaly (including puting that person to community service IE chain gang). I'll stop my banter know but I do have very strong feelings on this as I am sure many others do because of my past experiences.

So you are saying?
H. I drink but don't while sledding because of common sense/good morals?

What I am saying is that I have a drink every once and a while but do not see the need to get tanked to have fun. And yes I don't drink and operate any vehicle. And it does come down to common sense and if people can't relize that then they should not be operating a vehicle. Any one who does go out drinking and then operate a vehicle is simply put a F----ing dumbass! (and I am not refering to those that have a beer with lunch/dinner because there is a difference).

b the current law is good enough. you will never get all of the drunks off of the trail.

To clarify, your answer is only for yourself, please don't judge/cuss anyone else. In fact if you don't drink and ride, your answer isn't important because any increase in enforcement/penalties is not going to affect your behavior. Throwing stones at anyone who drinks hasn't reduced drinking so far and i don't think it will in this thread either.
Guess I forgot one important option.
I. No law will keep me from drinking and riding.

The simple fact that you openly admit to drinking and driving just goes to show that you are one of the dumb asses who is giving this sport such a black eye because of the accidents that are being caused-not saying that you yourself caused an accident. The good thing is that at least it gives me job security knowing that the ignorant ones will keep drinking and driving. And yes most of the accidents are due to those that are intoxicated and because of that more laws are attemping to be put in place such as the speed limit law. I can not see why any one would be willing to be driving under the influence of any thing and be willing to risk their own lives, other fellow sledders and all the hard work that went into making this sport great. And you are right that no law will keep people from drinking and driving which is why if you or any one else who is caught operating a vehicle under the influence should have all rights to operate any vehicle revoked and there should be mandatory jail time. If you are unable to relize that those that are drinking and driving are the main stem of the problems then you are very ignorant and just don't care and this sport does not need someone like you and nor does the state of WI.

Dumb ass? Why don't you read all the threads again and see who is the dumb ass. Let me give you a clue in case your reading comprehension is as bad as it appears to be, I put out the I. option for others to use if they wish, as you can read from my first post I don't drink. I will repeat my purpose for this thread, it is to hear from those who drink and ride on an honest opinion of what would make them not drink and ride. I thought this info might be helpfull to not pass useless laws but concentrate on ones that might actually have an affect. If people who admit they drink and ride have to listen to people like you then they aren't really going to take the time to give the info are they? You again proved who really are the most irrational people in the discussions to try and lower deaths, holier than thou nondrinkers. Let's give this hypothetical situation.......You say most deaths are from drunks, what if I say that there are too many from excessive speed and WI needs a 45 mph 24/7 speed limit? On top of that, speeders should get their DL tagged too. Well I see you have some fast sleds, certainly you want to not have deaths and keep the sport from a black eye so you will never go above 45 again? Is the DL route a road you really want to go down? If it works, it will just be extended to other sledding infractions, if it doesn't work, there will be another useless law on the books and the deaths will stay steady.
Well I guess I am a dumb ass in thinking that no one would come into this thread beating his chest and derail it.

Maybe I should give you some reading comprehension in that I initially had stated a possible solution (not coming into beat my chest) but you decidd to cop a attitude and be ignorant. Not to mention that I never stated I did not have a drink once in a while but I did state not being dumb enough to drink and drive-once again reading comprehension. And going down the DL path would be relistic since it would aid in controlling those that are being irresponsible. And you should also check your stats because the deaths that are from speed are mostly caused from being intoxicated(at least 9/10) which causes poor reaction times and poor decision making. An option might be what Canada has done in having a zero tolerance law for all vehicle operation and if caught then there is automatic jail time. I will end this my stating this will be my last post here as to it is obvious that some one like you has way to much of a ego to deal with and are not worth any more time. And I did not come in here to try and derail this post I had just offered a option/idea as asked for-though it may have been different and to those that are foolish enough to drink and drive not very well taken. One other thing is that every ones opinion is needed here because it will affect the whole sport and if there was a law passed on speed limits then yes I would follow them-just because I have fast machines doesn't mean I drive them at high speeds all the time-I leave that for wide open areas such as a lake other wise I ride them as a trail sled because it is not worth pushing a corner and hitting some one or some thing-once again common sense when operating a vehicle. I hope you get other responses that are more what you are looking for and that you have had a good season and many more safe years of riding.

Ego?

Your idea wasn't taken very well, I don't remember comments on your idea, only on your personal attacks. But now that you mention it, since it seems imposible to pass a law to discourage drinking and riding, do you really think that zero tolerance and manditory jail time will go anywhere?

[u]What does/would keep you from drinking while snowmobiling in Wisconsin?


Ok I cant let this one go by and I would have thought somebody else had the proper answers here, but MY "What keeps me from drinking while snowmobiling".. full face helmet, rough trails and the lack of a good cup holder/silly straw combo.

Well said. Maybe if more people in this world had a little common sense we wouldnt need laws to protect them from their own stupidity.
I dont drink and ride for several reasons.
For one, I have a pretty sweet life and Id like to be around to live it. For two, I have an awesome girlfriend and a pretty nice family and I would never want to put them through the pain and sorrow of losing me because I killed myself by doing something stupid while riding my sled drunk.
I dont think more laws are the answer. You can pass all the laws you want, but how are these laws going to be enforced? Who is going to pay for the added manpower that it would take to police the trails?
What we need is more common sense, not more laws.

They need to enforce the current laws we have. They already have all the tools they need, They just need to apply them more effective.

Desire to live.

ill probly just stick to the pot, meth and a little crack now and then, that should hold me over.

poop:Miller products
shit:budweiser products
little crap:Imports

More Laws??? I have been in two accidents in my lifetime. Both times I was stuck by a drunk driver. The first was only 15 years old. He was drunk, had stolen his dad's truck and was doing well in excess of the speed limit. This was not his first offense as he had done this previously and also did it again after me, all before his 16th birthday. Did the laws help here? NO!! The second time I was hit by a 70 year old man in his mini-van. This one was even better yet because I was in a trail groomer, grooming the snowmobile trail!!! He totaled his van and did over $15,000 damage to the groomer. Two weeks later I ran into this same guy in the bowling alley, driving his new van, and once again drunk. Did the laws help here? NO!!! What will work for drunk snowmobilers? Don''t know the answer to that one but I am in favor of EVERYONE having to take a safety course to get a license to drive a snowmobile.

With all of the opinions flying around here could you guys answer me one other question please.

Who here has taken a snowmobile safety class?

And by the way I do enjoy dinking but NEVER when I ride.

<<raises hand>>

Back in the mid '70s. Took the driving test on my Dad's 1970 Panther 399 Kohler. Still got my certificate somewhere...

I did in the mid 80's. Thinking about getting my instructor certification this year also

Got my certification back in the 70's on a 1973 John Deere JDX8.

I got my certification in December 1972 on my Fathers 1973 Panther 340. A month later we found an El Tigre 250 that I bought with lawn mowing cash........and a slight boost from Mom and Dad.

Got mine back in 86.
I don't think more laws are the answer. Yet I don't have a good solution to the problem either. Also, I don't know if the problem is as big as the media makes it out to be though. If you compare the percentages to cars and motorcycles, is it that much different? I would really like to know. Would someone mind posting that type of information? (I don't feel like doing it). I know when I go north to snowmobile I try to book a hotel with some type of bar on the premises due to the fact that me and my buddies like to have a few after the ride.

Glad to see some of you guys have taken the class. But it looks like its all the old timers. I took mine in 1980 at the age of 13. At that point I had been riding for eight years.
Redxcr becoming an instructor will be the best thing you could do for the sport. I started mine four years ago and have been certified for the past two. We can try to change everyones opinion of the sport but if we dont change the sport we will never be able to change their opinion. It starts with the kids. I know I'm preaching to the quior hear but if we start with the kids it will make a big differance. An example I was done riding for the day in the hotel bar shooting pool & drinking when I was approached by two brothers asking me why I was drinking when I was riding. They told me they took my safety class and I told them not to drink and ride. I thanked them for reminding me of that but also informed them that I was done riding for the day and staying at the hotel.

We wont change the way some people behave but I have seen more and more new rider adults in the classes and if they dont take any thing else away from the class maybe they will think twice before they drink and ride. Change the laws, take sleds away, become instructors, do what ever it takes but lets try to make a differance.

Careful who you are calling an "Old Timer"

Our son is eight, and my wife who started riding when she met me 12 years ago, will take the course together when he is 11. We thought that they should take it together because she wants to get her certification too, and it may also boost our sons involvement in the class as well. When our daughter turn 11 a couple years after, I will take the course with her as a refresher for myself, but to also reinforce our commitment to our childrens intrest and safe involvement in snowmobiling.

There are some great teachers involved in the snowmobile safety program, but none as influencial as that students parents. I am a firm believer that we are first and foremest resposible for bringing our children up the right way, and teaching them how to be productive adults. The most valuable asset we can give our children is our experience. Any safety training starts at home, PERIOD.

Johnnyv You took what I said the wrong way. I could not agree more with you about parental influence. No one is trying to tell you how to raise your kids. The point I was trying to make (in reguards to snowmobiling) is that a safety class is a good idea for all new riders and a good refresher for the floks that have been riding for a time. . You talk about parental influence having the greatest impact on children. Parents takeing the class with their children is a great idea. I have had familys of five take it and it turns into a compitition to who will get the best grade on the test. But when the kids hear things from an instructor that you the parents have tought them along with new things you may have not and then a DNR office teaches the state laws there is an added impact. The safety class is not the answer to the proublem of drinking and riding but any thing to help is a plus.
I dont know if you realize it or not but children can take the IL Safety Class at ten years of age.

Took my course the winter after I turned 12. 1991. Just found my old certificate last weekend while cleaning the basement.

I know exactly what you meant, just busting your chops.

I know the classes are held down here and available for my kids in Illinois, but they still cannot legally ride.drive themselves in Wisconsin until 12. Besides, with the changes with the instruction coming from people at the club level, and my kids being on many club rides, they have been learning from those who teach on every club ride. We do all of our riding up north, belong to a club up north, and all of the sleds stay up north except for maintenance in the spring, This year the maintenance is so nil, it can get done in less than a weekend for all 9 sleds.

Last spring my son was seven and we had been thinking of a 120 for him to start, and then pass down to our daughter. We canned that thought when he took the controls of my wife's Z370 and does very controled laps on the lake. He probably got about 100 miles in this winter on the lake doing 1/4 mile loops. Towards the end of the season he started to both lead and follow other sleds on those loops when my brother or I would grab another sled and join him. He knows, and follows the limits we set for him(20 mph max), or the sled get put up for the weekend. Not once did he ever put that in any jeopardy.

I also remember the first time we showed up on one of our club rides and the leader even mentioned that ther ewere a couple of smaller children so we may get held up a bit. At the end of the day everyone commented how well they rode the entire day and rolled with everything that happend. Some even commented about our daughter getting a nap in bringing back some great memories, as I shook my arm to renew the circulation from holding her.

Snowmobiling is a family activity that can be enjoyed by participants of every age. As I said before, the best teacher tucks them in every night, and we do it by our example. It would be very difficult for me to teach my kids that drinking and driving are not good if I had a beer and drove anything.

Spring must be here because the golf swing is starting to groove. We are only about 30 or so rounds away from snowmobiling.

I took the course when I was 12. Really do learn a lot. Safety tips and instruction really sticks with you.

My cure for drinking and sledding was one of my close friends dying on a sled in his back yard after leaving from the bar. Not that I was ever big on using my sled for bar hoping, but there was a few nights that stoped at a bar and stayed longer than should have. I WILL NEVER DRINK AND DRIVE A SLED. I sled for the enjoyment of sledding, not for drinking. I do also enjoy drinking a few beers but try to use my head when doing so.

Why wasnt this made as a poll instead of having people post thier answers???
You will never get any truth out of this thread now.

You may have hit on to something along with the education that has been brought up. In Illinois, safety classes don't hit drinking and riding very hard as we are dealing with 11 to 15 year olds. Maybe we should be "scaring them straight" by showing graphic pics of drinking and riding to leave a lasting impression on them so they don't become OUI candidates.

I dont know what safety classes that you have been attending but the ones that I teach we harp on it. Also the ratio of kids to adults is thre to one. I think Johnyyv said it best. The kids follow the parents lead and are the best influence. Us as safety instructors can preach to our students till we are blue in the face but if they see their parents drinking they wont think its wrong. The younger generation is not the proublem. I feel the kids understand the situation and wont be dinking while riding when they are old enough.

Well I will get off my soapbox now but I just get so fed up with this topic. I dont know what the fix is but something needs to be done and people need to be held accountable for thier actions. If everyone would ride sobar, stay on their side of the trail and have fun the sport would be much better off.

nice sig......

Lets give the death penalty to anyone found using heroin. Well why not I dont do it, so lets make crazy laws.

Speed is the number one cause of car accidents so lets give out 5k fines out to all speeders and 2nd offense confiscate the car. This dosent sound like a good idea because it affects YOU.

it affects everyone on this site that is riding on a trail. i think we need to realize that this is a dangerous sport/hobby, and deal with the consequences. there will always be people that want to sit in the bar for 6 hours getting loaded and then ride 100 mph. that's the reality of this. can/should we try to limit the amount of stupid people partaking in our sport? sure we should. but we also need to realize that only so much can be done. maybe all of these efforts to totally stop drinking and riding should be channelled into a different direction. maybe more lives could be saved if our collective efforts were spent trying to investigate a solution that would be outside the box. maybe not. just a thought. i certainly do not condone getting drunk and riding. however, a zero tolerance would be too much. when i take a 16-18 hour ride. i probably have 5-6 beers throughout the day, with my meals. this definitely would not put me at or over any legal limits. this also would not impair my reactions or vision or anything like that. it certainly would get the book thrown at me with a zero tolerance.

i would like to ask if any of you that say you never drink and drive, have you ever gotten drunk in a bar?
if so, how did you get there? let me guess, designated driver? or went with a friend who drove?

well enough of my thinking out loud.

i wish you all well and a great season this winter.