Full Version: 2 strokes vs 4 strokes?
i am considering the new z1 turbo, but what are the advantages of a 4 stroke v s 2 stroke. i have never seen the 2 compared to one another. thanks to anyone who answers.
less maintainance,quieter uses less fuel supposedly,does use less oil...oh wait,I dont burn any oil thats right.doesnt smell or fog out my trailer when i get it out.I dont have one disadvantage except for wieght which you dont notice till you get it stuck and dont get it stuck,TRUST ME.its a smoother power than a 2 stroke,i would buy a turbo myself if I hadn't bought this left over 07 this year,the body changes to the turbo are badass lookin' good luck
Vince rode the turbo 144", and he said it even ditch bangs better than his ZR 900..and is way way faster...an better on fuel, and no oil..If I could, I'd be buying a 2010 T-cat for sure...the heated seats, the cat comm, the remote start, all the toys, I love the whole package...just don't get stuck, or carry a small block and tackle in the saddlebags if you do go off trail...
I think your picture demostrates the biggest 4 stroke advantage. Notice that cloud of blue smoke? You ll never have that problem again other than dealing with your riding buddies sleds. Some people claim to like the smoke and when I was riding 2 strokes I thought I did also but now I can stand listening to them or smelling them.
Well I have both in '08, a Z1 Jag & an F6 LXR which are basically the same sled, chassis & HP just one is 2-stroke one is 4-stroke.
Here's my take:
Trail riding the 4-stroke is the better sled hands down. If you are more into ditch banging and powder riding then the 2-stroke is still the better choice....these are the places that you can feel the weight difference in a bad way. This is not to say the Z1 can't do it because I have and do ride it in these situations from time to time. Just I would be lying to you if I said you can't feel the weight difference in these areas. As previously said, the fuel economy, no oil, no smoke are all things that are nice and for some are very important. For me the selling feature of the Z1 is the motors power and especially it's delivery of the power. No more holding the flipper against the bar to make power....every movement of the throttle produces the proper power for the amount of throttle given. It's just a smoother, quieter, linear power which gives you much better throttle feel then a 2-stroke of equal HP.
On the trail the weight is a welcomed thing in my mind, the Z1 hold it's lines better and is more stable then the F6 with little more steering effort.
After a year of riding the Z1, when I jump on the wife's F6 (a 600 engine which I always loved) I find it super soft. Even though in a race there isn't much difference the Z1 wins but not by alot, but that is where the 2-stroke produces it's power....on the bar! But you get on the trail, the corner to corner power of the Z1 is alot more then the F6 or other 600 2-strokes I've ridden. Much more like an 800, very similar to my ZR800 motors, and not anywhere close to as rammy as my F7 rockets.
It's really hard to explain, you have to take one for a ride and not a little ride, probably 30-50 miles to understand just how much difference there is. If you jump on a Z1 for 5 miles you probably will think it would get killed by a 600 but once you get used to it and the way it delivers its power...you won't ever think of 2-strokes in the same way, and I am by no means a 2-stroke hater, I still have one and that's all I've owned until this year. But I won't be going back...that's just my opinion, some will not agree but that's what I have found in the last year of riding.
Hope that helps a little. The TURBO should be an AWESOME sled....I wished I was responsible enough for a 177HP sled. LOL....... I guess it will be another Z1 for me this year because my father informed me he's taking my Z1... I shouldn't have let him ride it! Now I just have to decide between a '09 Z1 LXR or a '08 Nightfire Z1 that a friend is trading in for a Turbo.
Here's my take:
Trail riding the 4-stroke is the better sled hands down. If you are more into ditch banging and powder riding then the 2-stroke is still the better choice....these are the places that you can feel the weight difference in a bad way. This is not to say the Z1 can't do it because I have and do ride it in these situations from time to time. Just I would be lying to you if I said you can't feel the weight difference in these areas. As previously said, the fuel economy, no oil, no smoke are all things that are nice and for some are very important. For me the selling feature of the Z1 is the motors power and especially it's delivery of the power. No more holding the flipper against the bar to make power....every movement of the throttle produces the proper power for the amount of throttle given. It's just a smoother, quieter, linear power which gives you much better throttle feel then a 2-stroke of equal HP.
On the trail the weight is a welcomed thing in my mind, the Z1 hold it's lines better and is more stable then the F6 with little more steering effort.
After a year of riding the Z1, when I jump on the wife's F6 (a 600 engine which I always loved) I find it super soft. Even though in a race there isn't much difference the Z1 wins but not by alot, but that is where the 2-stroke produces it's power....on the bar! But you get on the trail, the corner to corner power of the Z1 is alot more then the F6 or other 600 2-strokes I've ridden. Much more like an 800, very similar to my ZR800 motors, and not anywhere close to as rammy as my F7 rockets.
It's really hard to explain, you have to take one for a ride and not a little ride, probably 30-50 miles to understand just how much difference there is. If you jump on a Z1 for 5 miles you probably will think it would get killed by a 600 but once you get used to it and the way it delivers its power...you won't ever think of 2-strokes in the same way, and I am by no means a 2-stroke hater, I still have one and that's all I've owned until this year. But I won't be going back...that's just my opinion, some will not agree but that's what I have found in the last year of riding.
Hope that helps a little. The TURBO should be an AWESOME sled....I wished I was responsible enough for a 177HP sled. LOL....... I guess it will be another Z1 for me this year because my father informed me he's taking my Z1... I shouldn't have let him ride it! Now I just have to decide between a '09 Z1 LXR or a '08 Nightfire Z1 that a friend is trading in for a Turbo.
I just put 500 miles this weekend in Aroostock county Maine. I had my oil pump on the rich side, real rich, about 60 to 70 miles per quart. I had to buy a quart of oil at a gas stop and I was shock to have the choice of 6.95 - 13.95 quart. That convinced me, between those oil prices and the gallon to two gallon extra on every fill up, and now the new turbo cat, I'm just about there!
QUOTE(strangeland2 @ Mar 20 2008, 09:40 AM) 
I think your picture demostrates the biggest 4 stroke advantage. Notice that cloud of blue smoke? You ll never have that problem again other than dealing with your riding buddies sleds. Some people claim to like the smoke and when I was riding 2 strokes I thought I did also but now I can stand listening to them or smelling them.
Not sticking up for doo but there new E-tech does not smoke either and dont let anyone tell you that four strokes dont stink. Four stroke smell is different and to me not nearly as nice as a good smoking two stroke! Sound you cant beat the two stroke in the modern sleds. Makes me Horny just thinking about that 7800-8200 sound!
I agree with zl5600. There doesn't have to be a cloud of smoke coming off of a modern day 2-stroke. BRP has not only proven that with the Etec, but with the SDI to a certain extent as well.
I find the abrumpt on/off throttle of a 4-stroke annoying and very tiring. I also find the sound of most not to my liking as well, especially the big twins. And I certainly don't think they are any quieter, not to the rider anyway.
I know it is hard to get test rides, but I would advise people riding before they buy.
Any real comparison of a 4-stroke to a 2-stroke, has to be made to the new Etec, because every other 2-stroke is obsolete by a wide margin, since it's introduction a few weeks ago. Cat fan or not, that is a fact that cannot be denied. Leaving outright horsepower aside, I don't see any disadvantage to the Etec compared to any 4-stroke on the market. The Etec is lighter, more fuel efficient, less maintenance, produces no smoke and is just as quiet. The question of longevity comes to mind. Most of the 4-strokes will probably last longer, but how long does a snowmobile engine have to last anyway? The chassis is obsolete in under 5 years and falling apart after 10, so who cares if the motor will last 20 or 30 years.
I don't think the advantage of the 4-stroke is as cut and dried as some want us to believe!
I find the abrumpt on/off throttle of a 4-stroke annoying and very tiring. I also find the sound of most not to my liking as well, especially the big twins. And I certainly don't think they are any quieter, not to the rider anyway.
I know it is hard to get test rides, but I would advise people riding before they buy.
Any real comparison of a 4-stroke to a 2-stroke, has to be made to the new Etec, because every other 2-stroke is obsolete by a wide margin, since it's introduction a few weeks ago. Cat fan or not, that is a fact that cannot be denied. Leaving outright horsepower aside, I don't see any disadvantage to the Etec compared to any 4-stroke on the market. The Etec is lighter, more fuel efficient, less maintenance, produces no smoke and is just as quiet. The question of longevity comes to mind. Most of the 4-strokes will probably last longer, but how long does a snowmobile engine have to last anyway? The chassis is obsolete in under 5 years and falling apart after 10, so who cares if the motor will last 20 or 30 years.
I don't think the advantage of the 4-stroke is as cut and dried as some want us to believe!
QUOTE(Charles @ Mar 27 2008, 12:09 PM)
I agree with zl5600. There doesn't have to be a cloud of smoke coming off of a modern day 2-stroke. BRP has not only proven that with the Etec, but with the SDI to a certain extent as well.
I find the abrumpt on/off throttle of a 4-stroke annoying and very tiring. I also find the sound of most not to my liking as well, especially the big twins. And I certainly don't think they are any quieter, not to the rider anyway.
I know it is hard to get test rides, but I would advise people riding before they buy.
Any real comparison of a 4-stroke to a 2-stroke, has to be made to the new Etec, because every other 2-stroke is obsolete by a wide margin, since it's introduction a few weeks ago. Cat fan or not, that is a fact that cannot be denied. Leaving outright horsepower aside, I don't see any disadvantage to the Etec compared to any 4-stroke on the market. The Etec is lighter, more fuel efficient, less maintenance, produces no smoke and is just as quiet. The question of longevity comes to mind. Most of the 4-strokes will probably last longer, but how long does a snowmobile engine have to last anyway? The chassis is obsolete in under 5 years and falling apart after 10, so who cares if the motor will last 20 or 30 years.
I don't think the advantage of the 4-stroke is as cut and dried as some want us to believe!
I find the abrumpt on/off throttle of a 4-stroke annoying and very tiring. I also find the sound of most not to my liking as well, especially the big twins. And I certainly don't think they are any quieter, not to the rider anyway.
I know it is hard to get test rides, but I would advise people riding before they buy.
Any real comparison of a 4-stroke to a 2-stroke, has to be made to the new Etec, because every other 2-stroke is obsolete by a wide margin, since it's introduction a few weeks ago. Cat fan or not, that is a fact that cannot be denied. Leaving outright horsepower aside, I don't see any disadvantage to the Etec compared to any 4-stroke on the market. The Etec is lighter, more fuel efficient, less maintenance, produces no smoke and is just as quiet. The question of longevity comes to mind. Most of the 4-strokes will probably last longer, but how long does a snowmobile engine have to last anyway? The chassis is obsolete in under 5 years and falling apart after 10, so who cares if the motor will last 20 or 30 years.
I don't think the advantage of the 4-stroke is as cut and dried as some want us to believe!
Well I have to disagree. After owning 20+ 4 stroke sleds I bought a 07 Z1. The sled is quiet, smooth and is not on off at all. As far as the twin spar chassis goes...it will never wear out or be bested by another manufacturer for trail riding. The seat position is variable as well as the bars.
I rode the new Doo and its a very nice sled. It sticks like glue but rides to stiff for me and I like the Z1 riding positions much better.
Maybe the Yamaha 4 strokes are louder because the pipes are almost ear level for anyone around the sled but the Cats exhaust is down under like a 2 stroke and much quieter in most snow conditions.
QUOTE(Mainecat @ Mar 27 2008, 02:33 PM)
Well I have to disagree. After owning 20+ 4 stroke sleds I bought a 07 Z1. The sled is quiet, smooth and is not on off at all. As far as the twin spar chassis goes...it will never wear out or be bested by another manufacturer for trail riding. The seat position is variable as well as the bars.
I rode the new Doo and its a very nice sled. It sticks like glue but rides to stiff for me and I like the Z1 riding positions much better.
Maybe the Yamaha 4 strokes are louder because the pipes are almost ear level for anyone around the sled but the Cats exhaust is down under like a 2 stroke and much quieter in most snow conditions.
I rode the new Doo and its a very nice sled. It sticks like glue but rides to stiff for me and I like the Z1 riding positions much better.
Maybe the Yamaha 4 strokes are louder because the pipes are almost ear level for anyone around the sled but the Cats exhaust is down under like a 2 stroke and much quieter in most snow conditions.
For me the torque, the smooth linear power and throttle feel and response are the biggest reason why I will never own another 2-stroke. I am not interested in putting the throttle to the bar anytime I want power. With the Z1 engine every movement of the throttle in turn gives you the correct amount of power to the track. In the 120hp class sled a 2-stroke basically has an on/off switch....no throttle feel. When you experienced the 4-stroke of the same HP....it's real real hard to go back. Also, whoever doesn't think the Z1 isn't as quiet as the 2-stroke must be sniffing glue. They are much quieter. I own both and there is no comparison when it comes to trail noise.
Myself personally I could care less about the sound, smoke, fuel economy....it's a different kind of power...I'M HOOKED!!!! (ok starting the 4-stroke in the garage sure is nice....I don't need a gas mask to get my sled out)
The 2-stroke people got to lighten up....2-strokes aren't going anywhere. They are still the better sled for powder riding and all out ditch banging. These are the places where weight is crucial and 2-strokes will always be lighter!! On the trail and for everyday riding the 4-stroke is the better choice for an all around sled.
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