I posted a problem I thought I was having with my coils but I am not convinced that they are the culprits. Here's the situation,

The motor doesn't want to idle and is not reving cleanly so I started to check things and see if anything obvious was wrong. I initially thought the plugs we're bad so I changed them, still not running right. I start the engine and the center and mag cylinder are running poorly (pulling the plug wires while their running doesn't effect the rpm much at all. I pull the Pto plug wire and the rpm drops right away. I checked the coils ohm readings (mikethesnowman, thanks for your help) and everything seems fine but I replaced the plug wires and caps. Same problem. I start the sled again and this time start swapping the plug wires between the cylinders and the mag and center cylinders don't seem to do anything regardless of which wire is on them (even the wire from the pto cylinder on it did'nt do much). But pulling the wire from the center cyclinder wioth the pto plug wire on it almost stalls it. Not sure if you can swap plug wires around like that though.

Now here the strange part, the center cylinder pipe isn't heating up like the to outers. But, the compression on all three is just about identical !

Can a bad reed (in the center) do this ?

The pistons don't look any different between the cylinders (looking at them through the plug hole with a light). Not through the exhaust pipe.

The center carb looks to be intact. I pulled the top of it off to check if the wire was still on it, it was.

Can the coil actually do something like this ?


I am at a complete loss, hopefully someone can help me figure this out.

Thanks in advance

If switching the plug wires did'nt move the problem to another cyl. , I would pull off the carb, take it apart and clean it, and pull out the reed cage and see if you have a broken reed. Also, drain the gas and put some fresh gas in, I know it does'nt make sence, but better to be safe. Dump the old gas in you're car. Let us know what you find.

Your right about switching plugs and the problem not moving to another cylinder. But, can I actually do that with the plug wires ? Also if the reed is broken would I still have compression ? This problem happened right after a ride two weeks ago, I ran fine, I filled it up, washed it (it was warm and the garage is heated) and put it away. Went to fire it up to make sure everything is ok before my next ride and WHAM, this crap.

I am leaning toward a mechanical problem but this whole coil thng has me second guessing myself.

Feelgood,

I had the exact same problem which ended up being two small of a pilot jet. I switched reeds, plugs, coils, & CDI all to no avail. What I found was the idle circuit (Pilot Jet) was too lean causing the air fuel mixture to not fire. I was tried running a 1999 ZRT800 with 25 pilots, 27.5's, 30's, 32.5's and finally 35's which is what it come stock with. Apparently, since the 99's had a fixed air jet, a smaller pilot leaned the circuit and a 40 is too rich. It will not start with any thing lower than a 35 or bigger than a 40. With a 35 at any fuel adjustment it will start with one pull at any temperature. Your description is the exact sequence as mine. Fortunatley it wont cost you over $600.00 in parts to fix.

Good luck!

Misadjusted or stuck choke plungers can cause your problem. Remove and clean them, then adjust them so that they seat down completely.

Ya, I just diagnosed my buddies sled to this problem. The choke plungers should come right out...if not, soak them with PB, maybe tap them in with a punch to loosen them.

You know it is funny you bring up the choke issue. The choke did seem like it was very difficult to move around to start. I didn't think anything of it until you mentioned it. I'll definately take a peak at it tonight.

Also, I forgot to mention that when I check the spark at the plug on the center and mag cylinder it was very very weak. The pto cylinder was strong.

Can I have two problems ? choke and coil ?

would washing the engine and not drying it some how effect the choke mechanism ? because that's the last thing I did to it before this problem

Thanks guys

feelgood

ahah........ and here is the crucial piece of information

clean your grounds, pull the connectors by your recoild apart celaen with qtips and some wd or something use dielectic grease and plug em all back in, make sure you unbolt your main grounds and clean that good too

also you probably got water down in your stator and it is leaking current, pull your recoil off and stuff a hairdryer in there for a few minutes....heres the bitch, if thats actually the case and this fixes the problem then your stator is leaking current to ground and it it means its on its last leg...... i would check the connections first

dan

You guys are good, I will try cleaning all my grounds before spending money on a coil. Hopefully the stator is ok. I don't blast the engine with water but I am sure if there is a way then it got wet.

Thanks I 'll get back to you with the results

feelgood

Not sure if you got your answer about plug wires, but yes you can swap them around no problem. They all fire 3 times per revolution. If you think one may be weak you can unthread the endcap off and trim a bit of the wire and thread it back on. You can do that on the coil side too.

feelgood
All the wires are the same, that is they all fire at the exact same time so it does not matter.
A sticking choke will be way rich and cause a cool pipe. Water in the main harness connection would probably cause a go/no go, so I do not think that is it. Are these aftermarket reeds? When you lose a reed it acts like crap at idle and low end but midrange and up it appears to be ok, i would defintely chack that as well as clean out the carbs and make sure that everything is working right, aligned and not sticking. Have you bypassed the kill switch? sometimes they go bad and cause the sled to run like crap. Also bypass all the carbs safety switches, mayne a magnet slipped? I always tell people not to smack the kill switch to turn them off. I have had 3 go bad. The sled would run fine then act like there was water in the carb.

Mike,

I think that it might be a sticking choke issue. The choke did engage very roughly when I went to start it hence, they very well might be stuck open (or some portion open). As for the water issue, I did let the sled sit in a warm garage for two weeks before starting it should water might have/should have evaporated but the stator concern could be valid. The reedsd are aftermarket (v-force) this is where I believe my problem is. I won"t know for sure until I disassemble everything and look but I can run the engine on one cylinder (pulling off 2 and 3 plug wires and running on PTO ! ) The sled ran very strong (it was a little lean for my jetting but idled great when I shut it down to go home). The magnets are already duisconnected but the safety switch is still operational (may be I'll disconnect it since it's easy enough).

Stay tuned

Thanks

Feelgood

THIS sucks ! ! ! !

the sled still won't run

I took everyones advice (except pulling the recoil and checking the stator) and this thing still won't run.

Here's the latest,

I replaced the plug wires and caps on all the cylinders (not coils though), I removed and went through the center carb to look at the choke, all fine. Actulayy all three klooked good. I removed the reed in the center cylinder and it looked fine, back in. I actually then swapped out the carb from the pto to the center to rule out a carb problem. I swapped out fuel lines from the center to the pto. The center cylinder still won't run. COLD PIPE. If I swap out the center plug wire with the mag plug wire there is no change. The pto pipe is hot, idle changes when I swap out the wires. The compression is equal across the board and the center plug gets wet with fuel (since it is not firing.

Can all the energy from the coil go to one cylinder and change the rpm if the other wire isn't connected to the plug ? and then when I connect the other cylinder it equals out the energy and gives me the allusion theat the mag cylinder is ok ? I have not tried running it on only the pto and center though.


I need some serious help

Thanks

[quote name='Dr Feelgood' date='Mar 20 2008, 06:36 PM' post='3810928']
THIS sucks ! ! ! !

the sled still won't run

I took everyones advice (except pulling the recoil and checking the stator) and this thing still won't run.

Here's the latest,

I replaced the plug wires and caps on all the cylinders (not coils though), I removed and went through the center carb to look at the choke, all fine. Actulayy all three klooked good. I removed the reed in the center cylinder and it looked fine, back in. I actually then swapped out the carb from the pto to the center to rule out a carb problem. I swapped out fuel lines from the center to the pto. The center cylinder still won't run. COLD PIPE. If I swap out the center plug wire with the mag plug wire there is no change. The pto pipe is hot, idle changes when I swap out the wires. The compression is equal across the board and the center plug gets wet with fuel (since it is not firing.

Can all the energy from the coil go to one cylinder and change the rpm if the other wire isn't connected to the plug ? and then when I connect the other cylinder it equals out the energy and gives me the allusion theat the mag cylinder is ok ? I have not tried running it on only the pto and center though.
I need some serious help

Thanks
OK so if you change wires the center does not run. No matter what wire is on it? Is it a nice strong spark on each wire. Did you bypass the throttle kill siwtch under the handlebars? The little white washers can wear out in the lever. Have you tried switchin the mag and center? Remember they all fire at the same time.
I had a stator that went out once and it gave spark on the short wire coming out of the coil, but a very weak one out of the long one. Not enough to start combustion.The resistance of the longer wire killed the spark. Ended up being a stator.

this happened to me once on my fuel pig 99 zrt 800.i did every thing you did and then some.i went crazy for 2 weeknight's.thank god it was the off season. i called friend who was a cat tech and told him the story.first thing he ask's was did'nt you tell me you blew a belt on the lake.i knew right then and there.for me anyway's. the crank was out of phase.i hope this does not apply to you.but as a last resort...good luck....al.

I think I am going to steer towards a ignition problem because the plug is wet so it is getting fuel. I'll get a new coil because the spark does look week. How do you check a stator.

thanks

My friends sled a 1998 zrt 800 wouldnt start or when it did it ran like crap wouldnt idle.I found it was the throttle safety switch.The bushings in throttle were worn out and it was killing the spark.My fix was to take throttle lever off and put a piece of solder same lenth as throttle pin trimmed so u can put pin in and thumb throttle on at same time.check it by moving the throttle around while trying to start sled.

I am out on the road so i do not have the values handy, I will post them when I get home. But in my situation I tested the stator and it was ok by the values. But when I actually looked at it you could see burned areas..
Make sure to bypass the plug in the handlebars and make sure that is not the issue.(kill switch or throttle switch)

25 and 450 ohlms.
the book says between 2 values, but cant remember exactly the spread.

I eliminated the switches and it runs the same. I did get the center cylinder to run but the entire motor runs weak (idles very low, revs slow etc) Pulling the pto plug wire (running on the center and mag) and pulling the center the idle does drop then back up when I reattach it. Speaking to two cat masters they are steering towards that wonderful stator.

How do I actually check it ?

Can I check wires without pulling everything apart ? etc.

We're getting closer.

Thanks

Feelgood

Hey this soudns allot like the problem I was having. Have you checked the carb sync? Whether flatslides or roundslides at least with a drill bit, but a guage is better. If you have roundslides very easy, just adjust the cable tighter on that carb adn see if it gets better. FLatslides are harder to adjust.

I checked the the carb sync when I was swapping carbs when the air box was out, their perfect. I spoke to a couple of cat masters and they are convinced it is the stator so I ordered one from rmstaor in canada. Now I just have to find the time to chance it !

Thanks

FG

please tell me more.
I have been tying to figure out how to bypass this switch on my 1999 ZRT 800 with little success. I know the wire jumping fix for the older style ignition sys but the new one has me stumped.

Bad grounds (seen that twice this season on Cats), crank phase, crank case seals, or case itself leaking.
Put your palm over each carb one at a time while idling to see if it pulls fuel, your palm should get wet with gas, if not, it's leaking vacuum somewhere.


Don