My wife and I ride nearly identical 2001 and 2002 ZRT 600's with powervalves. On our last ride in Canada last week, we each had one cylinder go lean and seize one piston within 25 miles of each other. I seized PTO side, hers was Mag side,

Other two cylinders on each sled were burning clean & tan.

Both had been using normal amount of oil through the injection pumps all trip. Different brand of injection oil in each sled. Only common denominator was same gas station for fill ups.

Any thoughts, besides weird bad luck?

- Tom

looka to me like you got BAD gas.

I agree bad gas. Probably old or diluted with really really low octane.
It happened to me when I was slowly trail riding.

Gas, we lost two within 8 miles three years ago after filling out of the same "Premium"(an oxymoron if there ever was one) pump at a Casino gas station.

In this case wouldnt octane booster additive help?

Maybe, maybe not. Most additives could be considered "Snake-Oil" They tout they raise octane 10 points or so. What that really equates to is 10 1/10s of a point or 1 real octane point. Octane boosters are a waste of money in my opinion.

Octane booster does absolutely nothing for stale water-laced fuel.

I was talking with Arnie ( of Arnies cat house in Norvair) last week and he said he had heard alot of crappy gas stories this year. The new fuel we are buying only has about three to four weeks of good octane in you're tank, after that, I drain it out and dump it in my truck,just to be safe. Buy name branded gas, you're alot less likely to be buying the regular in the super pump we've all heard of at some of these stations up north.

Not good for either of us, but good to get confirmation that someone else had a similar problem. I suppose water in the gas would be picked up in similar amounts and get in float bowls and cause lean condition??

Makes sense. Is that what happened with your two sleds?

I tested the gas, I have an old simple Briggs & Stratton test tube that you place I believe 5cc water in the bottom, add gas. Water attracts water so if the amount exceeds the 5cc line you have junk. Mine was loaded, I'm guessing but I'd say 8-10% water. We took it all out and figured to burn it up in the 4-strokes, the tiller and lawnmower would barely run on it.

If it was cold out and sleds were not warmed up properly they could both have cold seized. Need to look at cylinders and pistons, If they have the four corner scratches then it cold seized.

As soon as I read the 1st post I said the same thing as the other guys....bad gas. Canada is notorious for gas issues.

That is terrible...I guess your best bet with mystery gas stations is the lowest octane (most frequently used)...and bring lots of alcohol (dry gas), the alcohol would probably raise the octane as much as an octane booster anyway.

man where do you guys come up with the idea that alchohol is a solution?????
I have bad news for you, yes the dry gas and alcohol suspends the water and keeps it from collection in big amounts in your tank but your forgetting your potentially making the issue much worse

alchohol leans....its that simple and gas with ethanol has the same effect

so here you stop and get gas shitty to start with and then your going to add more alchohol on top of that???

ask anyone that races and uses alchohol as a fuel, you always have to jet up a few sizes to keep your shit from melting.

NOT RECOMMEND THE USE OF ALCHOHOL, if any of you have egt guages the proof is really noticable on the guages

straight gas to gas with ethanol can change the temp 100 degrees

DTM

We ran into some bad "lodge" gas near Cochrane this year. Fortunatley buddies vipers have deto sensors with warning lights, they started to flash shortly after filling up at any speed over 80kph. We quickley made way to some quality premium fuel, and had no problems the rest of the week. On a better note, him and his wife were beating us on fuel milage with the vipers the first day at -5c
and he was stating to get cocky and mouth off about crappy cats. The temps dropped to -25c the next four days and my wife and I were way better than them on fuel. (my 02 zrt 600 and wifes sabercat 600 efi).

Sorry about your double trouble on your trip. Are you the same young feller (with the even younger blonde wife) that used to post
great trip reports out of Port Sydney riding zrt's? Sled friends have a cottage on Mary Lake, pretty sure we passed you two a few times.

By the way, we stopped trail side and had a party/pictures this year when my 02 Zert hit 8000 miles/never touched engine.
I was sure she would blow 10 mi down the trail after that but she keeps on ticking. Has been the best cat I have ever owned!

Alcohol is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy.

I'm the guy who started this thread.

Gas was probably not the problem when we seized our two ZRT 600's last week.

I opened this thread thinking water in the gas was the only thing that could have been common to both sleds, since they both melted down within 25 miles of the final refueling.

But there is another common issue. The night before our final 25 mile ride, we returned from a long day of riding and during the last two miles before the motel, both sleds had their low oil lights blink on and off. I stopped right away when the first warning light blinked, looked in the oil tank with a flashlight and it looked like there was an ample amount of oil left in the bottom of the oil tank to ride the final two miles home. My past experience with low oil warning lights has been that you get the light when there is an ample reserve left for a few more miles. We refilled the oil tanks before our final ride the next morning.

We tore both motors down today, and both show signs of poor lubrication. Main bearing seized on one crank and a top end rod bearing on the other motor. Now the mystery is beginning to become more clear!

I checked the oil tanks this afternoon, draining out the oil until the oil left in the bottom of the tank looked the way it did when I checked it with the flashlight while the warning lights were blinking on the night before the melt down. Mighty little oil, and what was there could clearly have been pulled away from the line to the injection pump under acceleration. Loss of oil to the injector pump now seems the most likely reason for us losing two motors in 25 miles.

Moral of the story: Obviously stay aware of how much oil is in your tanks and DO NOT run it down very low or wait for warning lights. We're looking at having learned a $2000 to $3000 lesson.

My apologies to the gas station in Bracebridge.

- Tom

Yes, that would be us!

And I agree, that until now this 2002 ZRT 600 has been the best sled I ever owned. My wide had a 1997 ZRT when you met us and read our posts. She moved up to a 2001 ZRT this year (same as the '02s you and I have.) She loves it and was heartbroken when we melted down our motors.

Read my post later in this thread about the likely culprit being low oil , not bad gas. Shame on us!

- Tom

Sorry friend, But I whole heartedly disagree with the oil theory. On the older cats when the oils light comes on and stays on you have a whole tanks worth of miles left before you are empty. I have ridden 20 miles with an oil light on and never had an issue. Being as they both happened a short interval betwwen is a dead give away of the same problem. Bad gas will actually hurt you quicker at low speed than high speed. If the engine ran low on oil the engine would have seized, and after cooled of and new oil is put in, may actaully be able to be started and run again.
I would bet you a greasy pizza-pie on the bad gas.

Was the crank bearing that seized and the rod bearing on the cylinder that let go?

Talking about two different motors. My 2002 Zrt 600 is the one that seized - PTO side crank bearing seized.

My wife's 2001 ZRT 600 ran about 20 miles longer and the Mag side upper rod bearing lost its needles and the loose piston played rat-a-tat with the cylinder head.

The 2002 is much worse; damage to lots of stuff including shearing off the crank next to the seized bearing and case damage. Various indications of low lube.

The 2001 that lost the top rod bearing shows little other damage.

I ride with 5 different cat riders and in the last year and a half a 99 700 zr melted 5 pistons another 99 700 zr melted 3 pistons both included a couple cranks ...a 2001 zrt melted a piston another 2001 zrt 600 melted 2 pistons and a 99 thundercat melted 2 pistons and i have herd guys talk about how much ethanol the canadians put in there gas know doesnt help with these pistons on cats i cant say myself that its a coincidence but who knows... I run with all these guys all the time and i havent lost a piston yet but i aways run premium and we ride in northern ontario also.....

Your friends have some serious jetting problems/ carb problems if they are taking out that many pistons on those sleds. APV 600 motors are damn near bulletproof, tcat motors are also very good.

I would be looking toward vandalism as the culprit here. Stock Cats do not have that high of compression for some minor fuel issues to cause this. Unless everyone has their heads shaved too much and the gas was really bad, or they went mountain riding and forgot to rejet.

I have no idea what they do to the motors behind doors does anyone know what your friends secrets are lol like i said it could just be a freak thing of bad luck with all of them but as far as i know they keep them almost pretty damn near stock they are all just trail riders none of them race so there would be no need to screw with them ..but i am sure they were all using spi pistons or is it spx i am not sure i have never bought them ...

I have no idea what they do to the motors behind doors does anyone know what your friends secrets are lol like i said it could just be a freak thing of bad luck with all of them but as far as i know they keep them almost pretty damn near stock they are all just trail riders none of them race so there would be no need to screw with them ..but i am sure they were all using spi pistons or is it spx i am not sure i have never bought them ...i never said gas was the problem with all of them either i just herd from a cat guy about the ethonal is a big problem with the cats now a days .... and he was a mechanic at an artic cat dealership

More info:
We closely checked the low oil sensors in the sleds, and it does NOT look like we ran the oil level down anywhere close to the pickup tubes. Back to the mystery. Looks more like the guys who think water in the gas are right. Wierd.

Our boys in maine run the cains quest race.They went through 500.00 of octaine boost.That tells me the gas in canada is crap.
Just my 2 cents

For what it's worth, I'm in the same situation. Second ride this year in Michigan, I filled up at the station next to the hotel. 49 miles down the trail the PTO side locked up in my '01 Tcat. It apparently was VERY lean, the other two were fine. Very puzzling for me since a month before I had put on 200 miles with no problems, and 800 miles last season. It was a 4 corner score, but it was in the 30's and I would think 45 miles is more than enough to warm the engine up. Most of those 49 miles were below 60 mph as one of the guys was breaking in a new belt. When we finally started going about 80-90 is when it locked up. Brought the sled home, put about half a quart of the gas in a separate container....after 24 hrs, some water had separated from the gas...figured this was my problem. Cleaned the carbs, drained all the gas, put a new piston and cylinder in, and headed back north. This time I noticed the temp gauge was running hot almost right away the first day. Got in some powder and it would go down. Checked the plugs, PTO was very lean again. Eventually, before 25 miles, it shut down again. The carnage wasn't quite as bad this time...I can still pull it over, whereas it was locked up the first time. So now I'm thinking I have another issue, unless there was enough bad gas in the lines to mess me up again. 'Guess I have all summer to figure it out.

maybe airleak??

BM..

Yeah, probably so. I just need to find it. The boots looked fine when I had them out last month. I guess it could be the seal.