I caught this tidbit on the radio news (Wisconsin Public radio) on Saturday. So it looks like it might actually be happening.
has anyone else seen or heard of this new bill, do you have any links to it?

I guess the Randy Salerno thing is what bit them in the ass hard enough to open their eyes and see the real issue behind the deaths involved with this sport.

It should have happened long ago, way before the speed limit was enacted!

Good!

They had a segment on the Green Bay news a couple of weeks ago. They were interviewing some DNR wardens and state reps. I think it's a good thing.

Agreed, should have been done years ago. Isn't boating dwi tied to the drivers license?

It is down here.

The REAL issue is stupidity!! Are they going to pass a law to keep stupid people from riding snowmobiles??

I think they're working on that, only the stupid ones will be getting the OWI tickets. Us smart ones will be sober and not have to worry!

At least we agree on something, this is long overdue. They are finally enacting a law that may actually help curb the problem, and not something to band aid the issue. NOW, let law enforcement stop you for OWI only if they suspect you, that would make it better.

To say that this is about Randy Salerno is a stretch, this is just long overdue and the law makers had to do something that has been put off far too long.

Much agreed. I also saw it on the news a few weeks ago. They claim that the results were positive in the other states that have done this. I just don't know if it is goes far enough. I can't see it changing the behavior of folks that have been drinking and driving a sled for years now and never getting caught. I really think the enforcement end of this has to change before we will see drastic changes in drunk driving.

Do you have to have a drivers lic. to drive a sled?

What will happen next, time will tell. I will be interested to see how this will be inforced. Will there be more police on the trails and if so who will be paying for them. I do think that this is not a bad thing for the sport, but a better thing would be for us to take people who have never gone. I took out 11 adults and 15 kids and all of them said it was nothing like they thought it would be. They all can't wait to do it next season.

About time! Thanks Randy, I think that help the DNR get this moving. I also saw that on the Green Bay news I loved the line at the end about many deaths in WI compared to IL the last three years, how can they compare with very litte trails in IL compared to WI. But good news Thanks DNR!

boats and sleds have nothing to do with cars and trucks bad idea

X2

How true

I also agree with you. Especially the guys with cdl's that are supposed to be under .04 at all times in any motor vehicle. Now they can't even have A beer on a sled without worrying about getting caught, and have a chance of losing their job because they had a beer on a sled. Something that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to with driving a vehicle, let alone the truck they drive to make an honest living. I can understand trying to get the drunks off the trails, but how about making fines HUGE or something along those lines. Also, what good is this going to do to help get the idiot joe racers that blow every corner racing down the trails to stop doing that? I'm always more worried about them than having a drunk hit me. Some of the idiot racer wannabes just ruin my fun because i have to be so overly cautious around every corner to avoid them. Really burns my a$$. Drunks seem to hit trees and stuff, not so much other people.(not that it couldn't happen) The joe racers hit other people more often in my experience.

I saw that to on the news and am glad they are going to do something about it, also maybe need to take aditional steps to stop repeat offenders. Hell i wouldn't mind seeing repeat offends get some serious fines.

I don't know anybody that'll be over the limit with one beer. Even if you stop at 3 or 4 bars and have one at each place, you would probably still be under the limit. Unless you only ride to go to a bar. All ya gotta do is ride for an hour between stops, only have 1 while you're there. Also, from what I see, the "Joe Racers" are usually found leaving a bar, or trying to get to the next one first. I've seen it plenty, Joe says,"my sleds faster than yours is." Tim responds," Loser buy's at the next stop." They both chug whats left in the bottle and put on the helmet. Off they go, balls out to the next stop!

If they pass that law the DNR will never get rid of the 55 m.p.h. speed limit. Warden Price told me that "the only reason for the speed limit was to get the drunks". They will need a reason to pull you over, Speeding or rolling thru a stop sign are the only reasons to pull a person over at night.

I don't need the extra hassle of being stopped at some check point for sobriety, then they will use some other lame reason for checking us(registration,noise,etc). All though I ride sober, I do not feel like I need another reason for taking away my enjoyment of the sport at the expense of deterring a few alcoholic's who will continue to drink anyway?Lets just keep letting the government run our lives, another step closer to making this sport even less fun.-what a joke. Sounds like I'm in the minority here,oh well. My 2 cents.

G2O,

Last months AWSC magazine had a letter to the editor written by Sam Landes (Dane County rep/dir) that had some insights (along with his point of view) related to the 55mph and owi. An interesting read.

Anybody,

I always thought the DNR could pull you over anytime, anyplace to see your registration card even if you have current registration stickers on you sled...hence check for OWI. Can any law enforcement types on this board confirm or deny this?

For anyone that is for this new law I am wondering a few things:

Would you be willing to allow the DNR to set up check points that pull over random groups to preform sobriety tests?

Would you be willing to allow the DNR to preform random drug tests?

Would you be willing to allow the DNR to preform random snowmobile saftey checks? I'm sorry sir your belt is bad, heres a ticket.

Would you allow random trailside background checks on individuals?

I guess my point is more laws/fines don't work. We have some pretty stiff fines for car/truck drunken driving. Not stopping many folks and in fact the number of fatalities in 2005 was up at 815 the third most since 1982.
http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-...-wisconsin.html

Don't even get me started on "The War on Drugs". Its been ongoing for 30 plus years and hows that one working? We've loaded our prisons with druggies to the point that America "has the highest documented incarceration rate[1] and total documented prison population in the world"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States


Safety checks on truckers is a random thing. The motor vehicle inspector sees a truck pulls it over. More tickets ect. meanwhile people are getting killed.

So this brings on the question. How safe am I when drunks are on the trail? HMM... turns out I feel fine. As stated above it seems drunks are taking themselves out. WOW, they are.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/Org/es/enforcem...y/snowstats.htm

Jumping on increasing the laws and fines that DO NOT WORK is a very bad idea! It does however increase the revenue stream for the DNR though. And thats another post.

When a person gives up their freedom for security, they are neither free nor secure!

Bullshit. Driving any thing with weight power and potential for harm is the same no matter where or what.

I know a few years back they passed a law that puts boating DUI's on your drivers License but I personally know of about 3 people that have gotten caught on Lake Kosh. and their tickets were never put on their drivers license? I think that the Coordination between Law Enforcement and the DNR isn't there.

They can give DUI's on whatever you drive pedal bikes, horses, anything with a motor vehicle. I'm willing to bet depending on who gives you a ticket will depend on if it goes on your drivers record or not.

So according to that statement... guys should be getting DUI's for riding fat chicks too....

I think most people would be VERY surprised to see how little alcohol it takes to put you over the "legal limit".

I know I will get flamed for this, but here is why I don't like these laws. They do not stop the people that "don't give a chit" and get wasted and ride. These people will continue not caring and be a danger. However, the guy that has a few beers during the day of riding may very well get arrested even though he was riding slow and cautious all day.

It's just like the laws on our roads. You really think a dirtball cares that he is wasted before he gets behind the wheel? But the hardworking guy that wants to relax and have a few beers while golfing and blows a .09 gets hauled off to jail. Cops love to target people leaving bars, golf courses, etc. IMO if you pass the sobriety tests then you are legal, the breathalyzer is just too subjective.

And 1fastXC brings up a good point. Anyone that has a CDL can't even enjoy a couple beers for fear of losing his job!

I agree with you on some of this. Mostly the last half or so. That being said, Your second and fourth sentences I disagree totally with. If you think that having one beer is going to put you at .04 at ANY given time frame you're crazy. One beer will maybe get you to .015. Hell, I have arrested alledged truck drivers who were cruising down our highways with 50,000 lbs of gasoline in the tanker at .15%. Now, tell me- if someone is getting drunk riding a sled do you want that same person out on the highway hauling gasoline-- and worse-- in the same area as your loved ones? I know I don't. We all have certain requirements in our jobs. If you have a CDL and are required to never go above .04% on any license, you better be able to say, "I'll have a Coke, please". I agree completely about these Joe Racer guys who ride like they own the trail. But who is to say that those guys aren't lit up as well?

Heres a link to current Wisconsin laws involving OWI and DWI. Cars, boats, snowmobiles, airplanes ect.. It is also a link to defense attorney's that specialize in handling these cases.

http://www.1-800-dial-dui-madison-wisconsi...-Statutes.shtml


If they want to tie DUI's to licenses what about speeding, failure to yield, failure to stop at a stop sign, riding on the wrong side of the road, er trail, ect.?

I can only see this law CAUSING more fatalities from drunk bastards fleeing the sled with the flashing lights cause if they stop they may lose their drivers license, than maybe their jobs, than maybe their family and in the end giving them more reason and time to drink.

Just my 2 cents.

I totally agree with you there. Everyones TOLERANCE is totally different. Just because the government throughs a number out there, doesn't mean that as soon as you hit that number you can no longer function. I've seen some alchoholics that function just fine after drinking all day. You'd never guess they were even drinking if you didn't know. Why? Because they've built up their tolerance.


I checked 2 different calculators, and one says if a 200 lb guy has 3 beers in one hour he'd be at .05. The other said 2 beers in one hour, he'd be at .052. Either way, if you have a cdl, 2-3 beers in an hour and you could be screwed. I didn't figure for any other time range. I was off. Oops. As far as a guy that drinks on a sled driving a truck hauling gasoline, Just because he drinks on a sled, does not automatically mean he drinks while doing his JOB. Is he not entitled to a personal life just because he carries a cdl? What he does on his own time should be up to him, whether he drives truck or not. I totally disagree with the current law for cdl carriers, and it doesn't affect me in the least. I enjoy a few beers on the weekends, and i definitely don't drink while i work, and would take offense to someone insinuating that i do just because of what i do in my personal time. That's kinda my point, just because a guy has a cdl, it affects their personal life already, and i don't think it should at all. It really isn't fair to them. Now it could get even worse.


That was my next subject. Where does it end. If the dui is tied to the license, then what about the 55 at night already in place? Should that go on your license and affect your CAR insurance. Kinda like above, just because you speed on a sled, doesn't mean you speed in your car. Drunk on a pedal bike. Should that go on your license too then to stop that? Where do they draw the line as to what gets tied to your license?

For everyone here that is against having this tied to your driver's license, I have one question for you....what then do we do to make our trails safer and to keep the drunk bastards at home, vs. threatening our lives on the trails?

The 55 mph nightime speed limit is a law that affects everyone (even though it was aimed at the drunks). We all have to pay for it. How does tieing being drunk to your drivers licence affect anyone out there that is riding responsibly. At least this law would actually affect the offenders, vs. punishing all of us. Sure we might have a few inconveniences because of check points, but it is part of the sport. If you are not breaking the law here, than why would you have a problem with it?

It is just like the people that don't like the police. If you are doing nothing wrong, than what are you worried about?

I totally believe in the government staying out of our lives and they probably would, if everyone would act responsibly. Unfortunately, it is the few that end up ruining it for everyone, hence the government has to step in.

Maybe as a snowmobiling community as a whole, we need to take more responsibility for making sure everyone is following the laws and when they don't we turn them in. Maybe that pressure alone would be enough to start getting people to tow the line.

Yes, the few ruin it for the rest of us. As for it effecting someone with a CDL, which I have, I do not belive it should go against any license. I think the fines should be steep. Lets say $1600. If you are wondering how I came up with that is easy 10 x the amount for rolling through a stop sign, which 2 of my friends did this year. My understanding of how alcohol affects my CDL is I can not have any in my system while I am on duty. I am ok with that, as I think drivers should be in full control so they are able to stop from hitting the cars that are going every which way causing the accidents. So lets put the level at .10 because going to .08 has not made any difference in the number of accidents for auto's. The night time speed limit I fear is not going away. When was the last time a bad law was taken off the books, prohibition? Just so everyone knows, I do not drink, but I do not think I should have the right to make you not drink.

Zero tolerance, no need to drink and ride, make the penalties very hefty.

Couldn't agree more.

I get a kick out of some of the people on here who are opposed to this new law, it should have happened a long time ago. These people would change their tune in a quick hurry if one of their family members or friends were ever injured or killed by anybody operating any kind of machinery while drunk. The sport of snowmobiling is dangerous enough riding sober.

Nobody is trying to take away the right to drink, just don't drive your snowmobile if you've been drinking.

Do you think that a drunk on a snowmobile has the right to endanger other peoples lives on a public trail system?

Great point. I know you have read a lot of the responses to this topic. I dont think a lot of these guys would draw the line anywhere. And I think thats pretty pathetic. There are now crimes i would consider more serious that you dont have to spend as much time serving your "penalty" for breaking those laws as you do for DUI. And the point that you dont need a license to drive a sled really makes it unfair. So... same infraction, but one guy loses his CDL and his job, and the other guy doesnt have a license and just gets a fine. Seems like good old fashioned american justice to me...

The reality of the the bull is, they can't enforce the current laws. I agree with no drinking and driving, but shit. Hire more cops now? I don't understand it all. the speed limit did nothing almost zero enforcement, so lets make another law?
Education is the key, but there again that would make to much sense for the state of wisconsin. LOL

I see absolutely no problem with this. As others have said before, this is a dangerous enough sport as it is without having to worry about drunks out on the trail. For the average person that is willing to take the chance of payin some money if they get caught, maybe it affecting their everyday lives by tagging their license too may be just enough to stop em. Yes, there is always gonna be those that drink too much and hop on the sleds. Hell, they could make a law saying they will cut your legs off if your caught riding while drunk, and you're still gonna have some moron doin it. Maybe it's just me, but I have yet to have less of a good time riding just because I didn't have some Captain Morgan in my coke when I stopped to take a break at a bar.

I agree with what you are saying here, like I said I do not want drunks on the trail either. How is this going to be inforced?
Are they going to have more potrols on the trails, trail side check points, where is the budget for this to happen. The only
way I see it is by a increase in the fees on the snowmobile user, which I want to keep as low as possible.

I like your paste you have here.

It is a thousand times better to have common sense without education than it is to have education without common sense.
I do have to ask where is the common sense in letting a 14 year old drink in the bar with me. I don't see how that can turn out well in the future.

I totally agree that enforcement is the main problem here. Even if they make changes to this, you probably won't have any additional enforcement than what we currently have. It just might wake a few more people up with the additional penalties, but I don't see this having the impact that I would like it to have.

The only true cure here is to take action at the tavern level, where the ones that are legally drunk are not allowed to get on their sleds or even drive a car. I have no idea how that would ever take place. Why can't people just act responsibly and follow the current laws??

I have never had, nor will I ever have liquor while operating a sled or motor vehicle. I refuse to ride with people that don't follow these guidelines. By riding with them, it is almost as if I approve of their actions. There is no reason you can't forgo the alcohol for the appropriate times. Why is alcohol always needed to have fun, or so it seems? The "cool" factor of it should have worn off in high school.

No danger of me doing that, at all, ever! Yamaha drivers are suspect though!

First of all you start by making the penalties severe, huge monetary fines, take away your right to snowmobile, set up trail stings and so on. If you make the penalties severe you will deter drinking and riding quite a bit, would it make people get out of the sport ifthey can't drink and ride?, probably. Unfortunately I know people who use snowmobiling as an excuse to hop from bar to bar to bar, it's pathetic.

I know of no one who would sit in a bar with their 14 yr. old and let them drink, that's just being a piss poor parent.

Im against this law. I dont like the idea of random check points, wasnt that what they had in Nazi Germany? The idea of going out for a full moon ride after dinner, tomorrow night:), and coming to a check point and find out Im number 37 in line and could I please wait and be happy about it and by the way would I please pee in this cup as well. Why not, once the laws start they dont stop.

I dont believe this will reduce the risk of people getting hurt or killed. Something is gonna get ya. Everything that is alive, dies. Sorry but thats the facts. 90% dont know when but I will die and so will you. Its part of life. You can try to reduce the risk of when but shit happens. This gal didnt know she could go for a boat ride and get killed:
"News media are reporting a woman in the Florida Keys was struck and killed today by a spotted eagle ray that jumped into her boat off Marathon. An Associated Press report quotes wildlife officials who were not sure whether the woman was killed from the impact of the ray or by its barbs.
Spotted eagle rays have as many as six venomous spines and their size is sufficient to kill by impact. Their wingspans can approach 10 feet and weigh as much as 500 pounds. The eagle ray that struck Michigan woman in the Keys was estimated by authorities at about 75 pounds.
Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission officer Jorge Pino said, “The chances of this occurring are so remote that most of us are completely astonished that this happened.”


Im for monster fines. In Pennsylvania they have road signs, posted everywhere, "DUI you cant afford it". Start at $3000 and go up from there. You dont pay you go and work in a rehab clinic or something similuar.

Sorry about the downer post but Im sick of people thinking that laws, fines or the government is going to keep them safe. You are in charge of that. I ride like the person approaching me is stupid, drunk or unable to operate the brake. I ride like the deer and turkeys want to take me out and I swear they do. I had more close calls with these buggers than with any oncoming rider. I ride like a tree has just fallen across the trail around the corner. Ride like that cornice just may break. If YOU dont ride like there is trouble coming right at you or around the next bend than maybe.......

I am not afraid, by any means, I am aware of MY environment and the one I choose to play in.

thank you


thank you x2


well said


bullshit

well for the few concerned about this, Sobriety checkpoints are not allowed in this state. So that is a non-issue.

Do I think any snowmobile infraction should go against a DL? NO!

but lets look at the stats for the last several years on the deaths involved with this sport, More then half of them involved an operator that was well above what is considered intoxicated! some were world record contenders nearing a BAC of .279 !! Do I need that on the same trails as me or my family????

Maybe this will make the bar-flies think? (Maybe)

I know people that will not drink a single drop of alcohol when driving a highway licensed vehicle, but when they are on a snowmobile it is a whole different story! these are the people that I think this law is targetting.

Is this adding a new law? not really. it is increasing the penalties of an existing law that people should really have enough common sense to not drink and ride in the first place.

They kinda got us by the nuts on this one, How would the general public look at us as a group if we were to publicly protest this?
All it would do is justify that shit-storm of a story by CBS chicago about Salerno's death.

will the AWSC fuck us again? Highly likely!
this speed limit law sunsets after 2 more seasons. We need to start contacting our legislators while inmtelligently stating our dislike for the speed limit due to it's uselessness and our support for tougher DWI laws and somehow make them realize that the speed law does not work, and can not work! We have the DNR's own statistics to prove our point.
They keep mentioning neighboring states that saw a decrease in deaths after a speed law was enacted, but they failed to say that those states also have much tougher OWI laws for sleds!

If you think you could lose your drivers licence for DUI on a sled, it might serve as a deterrent, that's the whole idea of penalties for broken laws, right? So, if it gets even ONE retard to NOT drink a couple screwdrivers and go slam into some innocent, the deterrent worked. Your argument is flawed...you might as well say getting DUI on your bike should not count towards your drivers licence because it's not a car....

One thing I think that everyone of the states that say their death rates went down has forgoten is that we had some bad winters all in a roll. I have not looked to see what the final death toll has come to, but i can say that I saw more sleds out this year than in the past 5. What was one of the best things was that you could ride from IL. to WI. and straight to lower MI.
So everone was not on top of each other. The biggest problem is that we have to pay for people that won't be responsible for themselves, allways someone else's fault. I think when the states see how much tax money came in from this season they will be
afraid to make any changes. Can sledding be safer and better? Yes, but the most important ingredient is snow.
I do agree with you snoughnut about being a piss poor parent. The first time a bartender or waitress asked me if my daughter wanted a beer I said are you nuts, she is 14. Her response was she could have started drinking at 13 but had to stop at 17. I just shook my head while I watched a 14 or 15 year old have a beer. Oh well silly me I guess.

it is to an issue, then the dnr will keep the 55 mph speed limit at night so they have a reason to pull you over!

Dude, you can't be serious. A stingray is way different that some drunk asshole on a sled! Some things can be avoided, like say being drunk on a sled. I really can't believe some of the shit I am readng in here, my 13 year-old has more sense than some of the people posting on here. Hell, my 7 year-old shows more common sense! If you have to be drunk to enjoy a day on the trail, you have a problem and need help! I look at snowmobiling as a family sport, as do many people. The trails shoud be safe for everybody. How would you feel if you took your family out and one was hit by a drunk and killed? Would you just say ,"shit happens"? I doubt it. Now, if it was the drunk getting killed, that's his fault, and I really don't feel bad for that person, just for the family and friends!

Yamaha, I am NOT condoning, encouraging or defending drunken anything. This is not my intent. What pisses me off is a knee jerk reaction by Wiscosins government to a south of the border reporter using biased and sensationalized reporting. This is based on one high profile reporter that died. I havent seen his blood alcohol report but Im willing to bet he was just as drunk as the rest. But given the amount of miles logged by sleds this year, which number we will never be sure of, it has been a low number year. Heck even the DNR's snowmobile saftey director expressed suprise at the low numbers. Does one fatality by a drunk a head on, mean that the other 232,320 registered WI and 54,128 IL snowmobiles should pay the price. If you figure that each of these sleds, both from WI and IL averaged 50 miles this season thats 14,322,400 miles traveled. We both know that 50 miles per sled is a crazy low and doesnt include MN or MI sleds, number but still 14 million miles on snowmobiles. Think about that. Zero deaths would be nice(unrealistic) but should the other 500,000, again a low number including MN and MI that ride in WI, registered sleds pay the price? Thats one half of a million sleds and probably close to 750,000 riders logging more than 40,000,000 miles and we have a epidemic? It is in fact the complete opposite as it was more than likely on of the safest seasons yet in the miles logged vs. deaths, drunk or not. Again asking for zero is a pipe dream, IMO.

I have had friends killed as a result of alcohol. Not on sleds but they are still dead. I have a friend that was involved in a high speed head on sled vs. sled accident. I was there 30 seconds after it happened. Many broken bones and sleds bent in ways I didnt think possible. Should I feel better because I know that neither driver had been drinking? It still sucked. Shit happens. I dont look to find out who to blame for past actions, I try my damnedest to learn from these situations so that I can protect myself in the future.

My take on death, is a celebration of life. I dont morn for what I have lost I try to find joy in what I was able to gain. Love, frienship, happiness and good times. Death sucks and I dont wish it on anyone, drunk or not.

this rule is terrible..