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Brent will Doo
imo.gif these gas companies and elected leaders need a r_c.gif because this increase is all bsflag.gif wtf.gif , do they think we are prepared for something like this. Something has got to give, no one is immune to the economic impact this is going to have. I am furious2.gif that we just take this in Canada, other countries would of been at war by now or protesting. This economy is dead.gif so pee.gif on the big oil companies and the governments that just stand by and do nothing.
F-7 Dude
QUOTE(Brent will Doo @ Mar 6 2008, 06:56 PM) *
imo.gif these gas companies and elected leaders need a r_c.gif because this increase is all bsflag.gif wtf.gif , do they think we are prepared for something like this. Something has got to give, no one is immune to the economic impact this is going to have. I am furious2.gif that we just take this in Canada, other countries would of been at war by now or protesting. This economy is dead.gif so pee.gif on the big oil companies and the governments that just stand by and do nothing.


Get used to it. Our government has sat on it's ass for a few years now and done nothing, maybe canada has caught on. LOL
zoso
What would you like the government to do. Oil trades on an the New York Mercantile Exchange , how could they manipulate the market? Want to blame someone, blame China, the more they develop industry the more energy will cost worldwide. STOP BUYING CRAP FROM CHINA!
hate2looz
It's coming.... Right now the market is out of control. It's being driven by specualtors (ie: hedge funds, etc that manipulate the market) and the tanking US dollar. It has NOTHING to do with supply or demand at this point in time. It really is complete B.S. Bend over and get ready for the shaft (without vasoline because it's too expensive - ie: petroleum based! lol.gif).

Not a word of a lie but on most of my monthly credit card statements, gas expenditures account for 70%+ (especially because it's winter). Flush.gif
revrnd1
Two times when oil hit $100 a barrel the idgit analysts were wrong about the price of gasoline. 1st time it hit they said, it would affect the price. What happened? The price went up. The next time it hit $100, they said the price of gas would go up. What happened? It went down.

These "analysts" are as useful as weathermen.
hate2looz
For some more good news, wait until you get your new property tax bill this year. McLoser was supposed to revamp the system and make it more fair. What did he do instead? Nothing (big surprise there)!!! They are already warning of a propery tax hike. I didn't vote for this clown. Flush.gif Someone did because he got back in! wall.gif
renagaderyder
All i can say if gas hits a $1.40 a litre in the city I am sure it will be almost or near the $2.00 a litre i the north..
well then i guess i will stop going north for too many trips next winter, but I guess it can't be any worse than my fuel bill every two weeks now which comes in at about 3500 to 4 grand if it goes that high and my fuel bill hits 5 to 6 grand I hope every one is prepared to pay a lot more for everything from tv's to food and any metal products you buy, I can't afford to haul it for any different rates the only thing that will happen is some one has to cover all the surcharges that have to be paid ....
This is going to realy hurt all the small guys
IMO
firecatrobbie
The thing that has allowed gas to get where it has is the fact that the public has allowed the gas companys to put all the indepent gas stations out of business. I was in the gas business for 15 yrs and the writing has been on the wall for years. They first did it with self serve, discounted prices for pumping it yourself....people caught on and now you don;t see any full serve stations. Gas is such a crazy thing - the public is like chickens at feeding time - lower the price and people will line up for up to and hour to save a couple of cents. Now that there is not retail competion left(in major markets) the Gas companies have complete control of the market. Just set the price and people has no choice but to pay.

Any one who thinks it has something to do with the markets or oil prices has bought into their propeganda. Anyone notice what happened just before the GST dropped??? Gas prices went up a coupleof cents - then after went back down to where the market was before....what happened to out GST savings??? Its right in the pockets of the Gas companies. Gas companies are making higher prophits then ever and will continue to. Their marketing people are/have been very smart people and joe public just keeps falling into their marketing traps...and the best part - we blame it all on the government. As for competion laws...they are useless when it comes to gas pricing...they have figured out how to get around those as well.
hate2looz
QUOTE(firecatrobbie @ Mar 6 2008, 08:27 PM) *
Their marketing people are/have been very smart people and joe public just keeps falling into their marketing traps...and the best part - we blame it all on the government. As for competion laws...they are useless when it comes to gas pricing...they have figured out how to get around those as well.

And what do you propose we do?? Pretty much everyone needs this shit unless we want to go back to horse and buggy.....

Yea, there's no collusion (so says the goverment findings/reports). B.S. All the stations are within 0.5 cents of each other almost all the time! When one goes up by 5 cents, THEY ALL GO UP! wall.gif
F-7 Dude
QUOTE(zoso @ Mar 6 2008, 07:07 PM) *
What would you like the government to do. Oil trades on an the New York Mercantile Exchange , how could they manipulate the market? Want to blame someone, blame China, the more they develop industry the more energy will cost worldwide. STOP BUYING CRAP FROM CHINA!


How about pump our own oil? Maybe find alternatives like hydrogen? Or how about taking the Iraqi oil that we should own. LOL
hate2looz
QUOTE(F-7 Dude @ Mar 6 2008, 08:33 PM) *
How about pump our own oil? Maybe find alternatives like hydrogen?

Because the officials in goverment are spineless bastards.
zoso
We would already be paying 1.40 if the dollar was at 80 cents us. No one is falling for their prpaganda, we just have no choice but to pay the price. I want gas I buy gas what else can I do? I guess I could sell the boat, truck, sleds and take public transit. I would rather not worry about it and just keep riding. I will cut back somewhere else if push comes to shove, I love burning fossil fuel.
Sledburner

I know I like to be kissed when im f**ked and Im not feeling the love. I now have to pass on a fuel surcharge to my clients to cover the diff and then they bitch at me.
zoso
QUOTE(F-7 Dude @ Mar 6 2008, 08:33 PM) *
How about pump our own oil? Maybe find alternatives like hydrogen? Or how about taking the Iraqi oil that we should own. LOL



It would be nice if we were like Venezuala and had government subsidies for our gas at the pumps, but we all know that will never happen.
zoso
I just went to Esso's web site and they will now give out a personal size jar of vaseline with every fifty liter purchase. What they did not say is it will have sand in it. veryangry.gif
hate2looz
Buying gas now is about as much fun as dragging your balls over a piece 80 grit sand paper. grinning-smiley-023.gif
firecatrobbie
QUOTE(F-7 Dude @ Mar 6 2008, 08:33 PM) *
How about pump our own oil? Maybe find alternatives like hydrogen? Or how about taking the Iraqi oil that we should own. LOL



There are lots of alternatives....how come we don't use them..its all about money....Gas is a VERY big busniness....as far as what we should do....its pretty much too late, there was a time that indepentents could have been supported and some retail competion could have been maintained - but as always saving a buck was more important. Esso controls the market here in Ontario - the only thing that can be done now is for the government to step in - BUT - there are so many pockets lined and controlled in the government by gas money it will have to get higher before that will happen. I predict that prices will hit 1.40 to 1.50 this summer. Watch Vancouver...their about 6 months ahead of us for pricing. They seem to be the testing ground for the gas companies.
POLARIS98
QUOTE(F-7 Dude @ Mar 6 2008, 08:33 PM) *
How about pump our own oil? Maybe find alternatives like hydrogen? Or how about taking the Iraqi oil that we should own. LOL


russian_roulette.gif
F-7 Dude
If our poeple had a choice, we would elect a person that wasn't up big businesses ass. Instead we have NO choice. All the same bullshit for four more years. Big oil, and big business run this country. So sad for mankind. russian_roulette.gif
hi-mileage
Why is it not the goverments fault?They could drop the taxes on fuel in half and still make what they did on tax when we payed 50cents/lt.

On a different view of gas prices,how about this.I think fuel is still cheap at 1$/lt.People buy 500ml. bottle of water for over 1$. and don't say shit.
96440
Gas here in the Soo is anywhere between $1.10/L and a 1.13/L but up in Wawa on Monday I paid 95 cents/Liter.Who decides the prices?
At least I can go across to Michigan and get gas for $3.00/gal with our money better than par thats a good deal.........,
Brent will Doo
QUOTE(hi-mileage @ Mar 6 2008, 10:13 PM) *
Why is it not the goverments fault?They could drop the taxes on fuel in half and still make what they did on tax when we payed 50cents/lt.

On a different view of gas prices,how about this.I think fuel is still cheap at 1$/lt.People buy 500ml. bottle of water for over 1$. and don't say shit.


Thats funny you mentioned water. We just recently decided to go back the the Brita filter system and stop buying water. Why , because I believe that we got commercialized into believing the tap water is no good when it has been ok all along. Many of our friends are doing the same.

I would love to go and spend new dollars and replace the car with something more fuel efficent. You know what happens then, the oil companies don't sell enough gas and the price goes up anyhow. We can't win because we just like to take it up the @$$ I guess.

Its not just gas we are getting hosed on it a whole string basic daily items that we need to support our families
NewfieBullet
QUOTE(F-7 Dude @ Mar 6 2008, 08:33 PM) *
Maybe find alternatives like hydrogen?



QUOTE(Brent will Doo @ Mar 6 2008, 11:00 PM) *
I would love to go and spend new dollars and replace the car with something more fuel efficent. You know what happens then, the oil companies don't sell enough gas and the price goes up anyhow. We can't win because we just like to take it up the @$$ I guess.


First of all, all the talk about gas prices rising is, in my opinion, just prepping the public to accept higher prices this summer. If we hear lots of talk about gas going to $1.40, months ahead of time, we'll all be expecting it, and it won't be such a shock when it happens. A great way for the oil companies to increase prices without a major uproar I think.

More importantly though, as much as it will kill me if gas does get that expensive this summer (if it's $1.40 at the pumps can you imagine what it's going to be at the marina? $1.80 at least. Running through 75 liters a day in the boat is not going to help my visa bills) I reall ythink gas is still too cheap to really encourage us to make the necessary changes to reduce consumption. Buying smaller cars, switching to alternative energies, reducing our dependancy on cars all need to happen, but like everything else, these changes are going to be driven by our pocket books, by market forces, and nothing else.

I get a kick out of people blaming the government for the price of gas. The government cannot control the price of gas with out throwing the economy into serious turmoil, much more serious then we're going to see with market driven gas prices.

Do you really want to see lower gas prices? Stop buying so much gas, that's the only solution.
GuyFromTheNorth
QUOTE(NewfieBullet @ Mar 6 2008, 11:33 PM) *
First of all, all the talk about gas prices rising is, in my opinion, just prepping the public to accept higher prices this summer. If we hear lots of talk about gas going to $1.40, months ahead of time, we'll all be expecting it, and it won't be such a shock when it happens. A great way for the oil companies to increase prices without a major uproar I think.

More importantly though, as much as it will kill me if gas does get that expensive this summer (if it's $1.40 at the pumps can you imagine what it's going to be at the marina? $1.80 at least. Running through 75 liters a day in the boat is not going to help my visa bills) I reall ythink gas is still too cheap to really encourage us to make the necessary changes to reduce consumption. Buying smaller cars, switching to alternative energies, reducing our dependancy on cars all need to happen, but like everything else, these changes are going to be driven by our pocket books, by market forces, and nothing else.

I get a kick out of people blaming the government for the price of gas. The government cannot control the price of gas with out throwing the economy into serious turmoil, much more serious then we're going to see with market driven gas prices.

Do you really want to see lower gas prices? Stop buying so much gas, that's the only solution.


I agree with you. What sucks is people like myself. I live on a lake in the forest, my access road to "town" is a third rate logging road. All spring 4x4 is required to get to and from my land due to the frost heaves and mud pots on the "road" which is 5km long (then another 15km down a third rate highway). I have no choice but to buy 4x4 trucks to get to and from my place. Not to mention the prices we pay for gas up here is attrocious as it is. So unforunately unless someone comes and paves all the way to my house I'll be driving big pickups while everyone in the world has a hydrogen run smart car that fits in their wallet. YES I did choose to live here, so I do agree that part of this lifestyle is by choice, doesn't make it any cheaper though, my monthly gas bill is roughly 700$, and I'm in the off season right now, if it were summer and I was working contract again it'd be easily over 1000$-1500$ a month.
1trailmaker
Fact is this world is controlled by OIL adn always will be until another source is being used
Hydrogen is not the way (making the fuel makes too much pollution )

Solar cars- not going to happen because the Governments can not tax the Sun, so you will never see this in our life time - yet the tech is there to do the job
Hydrogen can be taxed and will be until its out of control

until there are no combustion motors we will pay
if we don't the economy will parish

OIL will be the cause of the fall of America, not in our life time but it will happen as it has time after time all through history (Roman Empire no one at the time could imagine this falling yet it did in a short time)

NewfieBullet
QUOTE(1trailmaker @ Mar 7 2008, 08:11 AM) *
OIL will be the cause of the fall of America, not in our life time but it will happen as it has time after time all through history (Roman Empire no one at the time could imagine this falling yet it did in a short time)

I think it certainly could happen in our life time. It's the arogance of Bush and the like that will lead to the fall of the empire.
Tinkerphant
QUOTE(NewfieBullet @ Mar 6 2008, 11:33 PM) *
More importantly though, as much as it will kill me if gas does get that expensive this summer (if it's $1.40 at the pumps can you imagine what it's going to be at the marina? $1.80 at least. Running through 75 liters a day in the boat is not going to help my visa bills)

Imagine what mine will look like. 400 litres a fill up, even at $1.50 per litre ( $600.00 per trip to the gas dock) and burning 240 litres per hr at wot. Something tells me theres gonna be more beach time and less boatin time going on this summer unless I can make my blower motor run on water. EEEEEEEKKKKKKK, thats gonna hurt
Vaseline or not.

Oh ya, then there's the $100.00 for the truck to trailer to the lake and back every weekend too.
Impaired
I heat my house with oil.. hat shit aint getting any cheaper either

ARGH.

there are soo many turbines up here in district 9. I wish I could get off the grid and get one myself..

Anyone got a cool million they could spare for a fellow sledder???
tnt8000
your all complaining about 1.40 a liter, damn i already pay 1.30 here in timmins for super... try living in northern ontario!!!!
redmnstr
We are getting screwed! Cross the border and purchase our imported gas for half the price and when your at it buy a box of molson canadian for half what we pay. I took my family to Jamaica this winter for vacation and what do i find 45 cent a litre gas on an island with no oil. Imported canadian gas!!!!!
Momorider
We really need to save what is in the ground for synthetic materials because that stuff is not going to made of anything else. Get off the burn it bandwagon and use alternatives or China wont have raw material to make all the crap we buy form them made out of plastic and other synthetics. glare.gif Sad but true.
Vetterman
Ok course expecting Gov't to intervene is a huge unknown to regular folk like us - I have no clue how that system works.

But I do remember reading how Exon oil posted a 40billion dollar profit last year and in the states when Microsoft was posting huge profits the gov't started watching everything they did and then started forcing them to change how they sold and marketed their product to the masses - when it was starting to look like a monoploy they acted - We have how many oil companies?? Not many I expect, and because they do all stay at the same price they kinda act like a monopoly.

I would like to see the Gov't make some kind of effort to reign in the massive profits these companies make mainly because we are looking at a recession or economic slowdown. I'm not a scoialist - I run my own small business and am a big fan of profit - Economics is a very complicated subject - but I believe that if gas spikes that high and they are maintianing huge profits then our slowdown or recession will be deeper and harder then it really needs to be. People traveling less, especially if you are getting layed off, less money spent because more time at home!! It gets complicated, but no less real a threat to our economy.
GuyFromTheNorth
QUOTE(Vetterman @ Mar 7 2008, 09:38 AM) *
Ok course expecting Gov't to intervene is a huge unknown to regular folk like us - I have no clue how that system works.

But I do remember reading how Exon oil posted a 40billion dollar profit last year and in the states when Microsoft was posting huge profits the gov't started watching everything they did and then started forcing them to change how they sold and marketed their product to the masses - when it was starting to look like a monoploy they acted - We have how many oil companies?? Not many I expect, and because they do all stay at the same price they kinda act like a monopoly.

I would like to see the Gov't make some kind of effort to reign in the massive profits these companies make mainly because we are looking at a recession or economic slowdown. I'm not a scoialist - I run my own small business and am a big fan of profit - Economics is a very complicated subject - but I believe that if gas spikes that high and they are maintianing huge profits then our slowdown or recession will be deeper and harder then it really needs to be. People traveling less, especially if you are getting layed off, less money spent because more time at home!! It gets complicated, but no less real a threat to our economy.



Monopoly is right. Here's what I don't get:

A hurricane starts heading into florida, the price of bottled water goes up 9000% and hotel rooms go up for 5000$ a night. The government sees this and lays "gouging" (gougeing? spelling?) charges for companies ripping people off.


Flip side.


A hurricane "threatens" to come ashore near some oil rigs. ALL THE PRICES OF GAS GO UP IMMEDIATELY because we may "lose" some oil. The hurricane never hits, prices stay up.



What's the difference other than the government will charge the little guy screwing the little guy but not the big guy screwing the little guy?
revrnd1
QUOTE(revrnd1 @ Mar 6 2008, 08:16 PM) *
Two times when oil hit $100 a barrel the idgit analysts were wrong about the price of gasoline. 1st time it hit they said, it would affect the price. What happened? The price went up. The next time it hit $100, they said the price of gas would go up. What happened? It went down.

These "analysts" are as useful as weathermen.


I was typing too fast:

Two times when oil hit $100 a barrel the idgit analysts were wrong about the price of gasoline. 1st time it hit they said, it wouldn't affect the price. What happened? The price went up. The next time it hit $100, they said the price of gas would go up. What happened? It went down.
Hey Johnny Park
We are all Cattle...
grubber
I saw on a U.S news channel that the price of oil was $28.00 a barrel when Bush took office 8 years ago and now that he is leaving it is $105 a barrel. Isn't Bush an oil man ?????

Grubber
jmp2204
QUOTE(zoso @ Mar 6 2008, 08:07 PM) *
What would you like the government to do. Oil trades on an the New York Mercantile Exchange , how could they manipulate the market? Want to blame someone, blame China, the more they develop industry the more energy will cost worldwide. STOP BUYING CRAP FROM CHINA!
Take away some of the TAX!
NewfieBullet
QUOTE(grubber @ Mar 7 2008, 11:40 AM) *
I saw on a U.S news channel that the price of oil was $28.00 a barrel when Bush took office 8 years ago and now that he is leaving it is $105 a barrel. Isn't Bush an oil man ?????

Grubber

Him and all his financial backers.

Well, I guess he may have caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people, caused irraparable damage to americas imagine abroad that will last for generations, and completely destroyed the american economy, driving thousands to bankruptcy and running deficits that no one could have imagined, but there will be a couple of dozen of people that will have benifited from his time in office.

As for the taxes, no, reducing taxes on feul would be a huge mistake.
08-APEX GT
nuke powered cars/sleds???

hehe.. just a though.. only way to bring the prices down is to find something else to replace it..

if it went to 50$/L you would still buy it..

also it still costs the same to bring it to the pumps.. oil companies are laughing... just need to replace oil with something else...


Water/hydrogen would be a start...
fill up with water, have a converter to hydrogen... burns it makes water as exhaust.. back into the tank and burn again...

drive 1,000,000 km's on 5 gallons of water and at the end... still 5 gallons left..


i fell i will be killed now just for saying this...
Vetterman
Can anyone confirm this - I heard that it consumes just as much oil to manufacture Ethanol as it does to make gas - so Ethanol does not solve any oil crisis - just gives farmers a chance to sell more of their crops.
hate2looz
QUOTE(08-APEX GT @ Mar 7 2008, 03:07 PM) *
if it went to 50$/L you would still buy it..

also it still costs the same to bring it to the pumps.. oil companies are laughing... just need to replace oil with something else...
Water/hydrogen would be a start...
fill up with water, have a converter to hydrogen... burns it makes water as exhaust.. back into the tank and burn again...

drive 1,000,000 km's on 5 gallons of water and at the end... still 5 gallons left..
i fell i will be killed now just for saying this...

Yes, I would just being going to my boss and getting a $30,000 raise!! You formula is impossible, that's a perpetual motion machine, which defies the laws of physics. You know, Newton's laws.....



Ethanol is a farce!! No cleaner than reg. oil in government studies and it consumes huge amounts of energy to produce it!
GuyFromTheNorth
QUOTE(08-APEX GT @ Mar 7 2008, 03:07 PM) *
nuke powered cars/sleds???

hehe.. just a though.. only way to bring the prices down is to find something else to replace it..

if it went to 50$/L you would still buy it..

also it still costs the same to bring it to the pumps.. oil companies are laughing... just need to replace oil with something else...
Water/hydrogen would be a start...
fill up with water, have a converter to hydrogen... burns it makes water as exhaust.. back into the tank and burn again...

drive 1,000,000 km's on 5 gallons of water and at the end... still 5 gallons left..
i fell i will be killed now just for saying this...


It's not a 100% conversion rate unforuntately, I mean energy has to come and go somewhere, if you could just recycle the same 5gal forever then we would have solved the universes energy crisis, so no 1,000,000km on 5gal own't happen lol. Good thought though grinning-smiley-023.gif

The problem with todays alternatives is that we, as a human population, are too numerous to support ANY alternative. Let's see just how "clean" clean energies are:

-ethanol, recently I heard eth actually produces AS much harmful toxins as gasoline does. If the whole world switched to it can you imagine the amount of crops we need to make in order to support it? As it stands there isn't enough food to feed the world as a whole, imagine if the -entire- world ran off of food for a fuel too.

-solar. I love how solar is touted as the 100% cleanest energy out there. What you don't see is what's "under the hood". Imagine every single car in the world suddenly turned solar. Perfect, no emissions or pollution right? Wrong. Every solar car is LOADED with batteries. Batteries filled with highly toxic chemicals and heavy metals. Unforuntately you can't take energy straight from a panel and turn it into driving power unlike your trusty calculator. Imagine just how many batteries would then fill our worlds dumps and oceans if EVERYONE now ran on batteries? It would be crippling.

-water powered cars. They are still somewhat fantasy but let's say a water powered car burns water and the only emission is steam. Can you imagine what that would do to our weather patterns? If every car in the world produced steam where it went? Every city that used to have a "smog dome" over it would now be creating steam domes which would make their own weather, alter seasonal precip, and even block sunrays.

The one key problem we have is there are too many of us to support any "magical cure" of clean energy. No matter how clean something IS it turns very dirty when applied to billions of people.

Sorry that's a bit off topic, guess I just wandered a bit lol.
Nutter
QUOTE(GuyFromTheNorth @ Mar 7 2008, 03:54 PM) *
It's not a 100% conversion rate unforuntately, I mean energy has to come and go somewhere, if you could just recycle the same 5gal forever then we would have solved the universes energy crisis, so no 1,000,000km on 5gal own't happen lol. Good thought though grinning-smiley-023.gif

The problem with todays alternatives is that we, as a human population, are too numerous to support ANY alternative. Let's see just how "clean" clean energies are:

-ethanol, recently I heard eth actually produces AS much harmful toxins as gasoline does. If the whole world switched to it can you imagine the amount of crops we need to make in order to support it? As it stands there isn't enough food to feed the world as a whole, imagine if the -entire- world ran off of food for a fuel too.

-solar. I love how solar is touted as the 100% cleanest energy out there. What you don't see is what's "under the hood". Imagine every single car in the world suddenly turned solar. Perfect, no emissions or pollution right? Wrong. Every solar car is LOADED with batteries. Batteries filled with highly toxic chemicals and heavy metals. Unforuntately you can't take energy straight from a panel and turn it into driving power unlike your trusty calculator. Imagine just how many batteries would then fill our worlds dumps and oceans if EVERYONE now ran on batteries? It would be crippling.

-water powered cars. They are still somewhat fantasy but let's say a water powered car burns water and the only emission is steam. Can you imagine what that would do to our weather patterns? If every car in the world produced steam where it went? Every city that used to have a "smog dome" over it would now be creating steam domes which would make their own weather, alter seasonal precip, and even block sunrays.

The one key problem we have is there are too many of us to support any "magical cure" of clean energy. No matter how clean something IS it turns very dirty when applied to billions of people.

Sorry that's a bit off topic, guess I just wandered a bit lol.


x2

Over population is whats doing us in .... I say we let Bubbunt Singh Baddabing and his buddy's ride without a helmet dunno.gif
hate2looz
Batteries can be setup for recycling so they don't end up in a dump. Put a return fee on them like beer bottles and they will make their way to the recycling plants instead of the garbage. Beer bottles have like a 98% return rate I heard, that's pretty damn good.
GuyFromTheNorth
QUOTE(hate2looz @ Mar 7 2008, 04:08 PM) *
Batteries can be setup for recycling so they don't end up in a dump. Put a return fee on them like beer bottles and they will make their way to the recycling plants instead of the garbage. Beer bottles have like a 98% return rate I heard, that's pretty damn good.


True but the problem is the chemicals and heavy metals used in them have to go somewhere in the end, recycling plant or not those vats of acid and what not have to go somewhere. Not all the parts can be re-used, if there was a 100% re-use rate on batteries we'd be in the conundrum of 100% conversion again. Everything has a waste product in some form or another unforuntately.
87gtNOS
QUOTE(GuyFromTheNorth @ Mar 7 2008, 10:15 AM) *
Monopoly is right. Here's what I don't get:

A hurricane starts heading into florida, the price of bottled water goes up 9000% and hotel rooms go up for 5000$ a night. The government sees this and lays "gouging" (gougeing? spelling?) charges for companies ripping people off.
Flip side.
A hurricane "threatens" to come ashore near some oil rigs. ALL THE PRICES OF GAS GO UP IMMEDIATELY because we may "lose" some oil. The hurricane never hits, prices stay up.
What's the difference other than the government will charge the little guy screwing the little guy but not the big guy screwing the little guy?


This really upsets me every time this happens. WTF does weather have to do with my gas!! It sure didn't seem to matter 25 yrs ago!
hate2looz
They can be reused/recycled but they have to be reprocessed. This reprocessing of the acid/heavy metal is what would consume energy. Whatever acid could not be recycled/recaptured could at least be neutralized.
Nutter
Interesting read on Toyotas environmental flagship



QUOTE
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer


The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.



So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
Guy...
bump that prius thing.


NEWS FLASH:
The oil company's have nothing to do with the price of oil!!!


Nutter has it right about the over population of earth. We are so over due for a epidemic its not even funny, not that it would be.
hate2looz
Well, here we are 3 months later and gas is at $1.35/L. What's it going to get to before the economy finally takes a shit? What do you think it will be for next sledding season? At this rate, $1.75-1.90/L doesn't seem out of reach!! wall.gif Flush.gif
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