Since we do not have a sticky counting fatalities this season, I thought I would bring this up anyways.

22 PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY LOST THEIR LIVES!!


Ride smart, Ride Sober!

yeah how come there isn't a pinned thread with the link listing the fatalities like past years?

Good thing for that new speed limit law. Maybe we just have more riders?

We finally have snow for more than a week at a time. More time to ride, more chances to die.

It's too bad this sport is full of so many redneck power drinkers. This is why I own a longtrack and ride off trail with my friends that live in the "UP".

Ya I hear ya... The people that are dieing are the power drinkers....Or the people that drink and think they can drive...it's the same as a car. Not much difference. DONT BE STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly.


It is not all people that like to have a few drinks.. How many people go on thin ice. How many people ride to fast for conditins or their ability. I know drinking has a lot to do with it but but there is a lot of people that drink responsibly.

yep that speed limit law is really working

We were out on a trail last nite. Cold with a bright moon, just parked talking about all the accidents and deaths. I have slowed down in the past couple of years, just because of all the deaths. I love to rock thru the twistties but just one mistake and it's over. My little bud runs like he's on fire and I used to stay with him, but now I just let him go and catch up at the next crossing. Shit! I think I'm getting old. LOL
It's all about riding safe, Had a friend hit a tree 2 weeks ago at about 15 miles per hour, screwed his sled, hurt his knee and dislocated his fingers. When he did that, I thought, how bad is a crash at say only 40? Yup, time for me to slow down. Hope you do to.

How mant of these deaths are from Wis. residents and how many are from other parts of the U.S.
Look at all the snowmobile dealers around are area are selling out of sleds.
More sleds on the trails this year also....

Just a quick peak at some of the real statistics. We are not on pace for any record, in fact we are up from last year, which should come as no surprise, but we are down from 05/06 - 27, 04/05 - 24, 03/04 - 22, 02/03 - 23, and 01/02 - 10. I think the record was 39,but I am not sure of the year, I will bet money G20 can help us with that information.

Quickly looking at this years accident report, here is an easy observation. Look at the number of sleds that got hit by vehicles crossing or traveling on a road. I do not care how loaded you are, you should be able to see a semi coming at you.

With the amount of snow this year, and the length of the season, we were bound to see a spike from last year. People have to start thinking when they are riding.

I agree with G20, Ride Safe, Ride Sober !

Yep, I wonder if the record snowfall around MOST of WI has any thing to do with it? <sarcasm>............................Brian

Your not the only one as i still rip it thru the straights and open spots but have realized i am slowing it down quite abit in the tighter stuff where i normally wouldn't. I quess as fun as the speed is its not worth screwing up the rest of my life or someone elses.

Thats exactly my point every one always blames drinking, but people do a lot of stupid shit when they are sober, ride safe everyone.

This has nothing to do with 55 at night.

My reports show we are at 24 now.

I understand im underage but feel that the dumbest thing you can do in my opinion is drink and ride. I try telling people that and they just blow it off as if it were nothing. Im all for having a few beers after a good days riding with the guys, but when it comes to riding throughout the day, enjoy it sober. Each time we make a stop at the bar, i have a few glasses of water and maybe a soda. Could i get a beer if i wanted to without being carded 90% of the time in wisconsin? yes. However, I feel much more aware and ready to ride drinking water than i do anything else. Anyways, it seems like every time i go to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal webpage, there always is a new article about another snowmobiling death/deaths. Way too many people have died this year in general and id be willing to be well over half of the deaths were alcohol related.

7 people not from wi out of the 22 posted. 3 were from MN and 4 from IL. 5 Were hit by cars, 3 drowned, looks like the rest were tree's or embankments.

And the biggest unfortunate statistic is that a higher percentage of the riders had a BAC above the legal limit than last year. I would have thought/hoped that the downward trend that we saw last year would have kept going.

Ride smart, ride sober, ride safely. Lets not add to the death toll this weekend.

Ride safe guys. All i got to say. I like you bunch of jerks, would hate to hear we lost someone this year.

I agree with F7 though.... I have been more cautious this year for some reason, giving the riders in front and behind me more space and not bombing through the trees.

"the older I get, the faster I was"

Ok, we are now at 24 (Thanks Bob)

Maybe this topic needs to be stickied again, The members of this forum are obviously some of the more responsible riders out on the trails and care about the future of the sport. We have not lost anyone in this forum to a wreck yet, have we?

Maybe when it warms up a little I might need to get a few miles on this season, Maybe a little pow-pow up in the U.P!

Lakeland? you up for it? I'll drive. I got all week until Thursday.

Early last year a guy on here from MI was killed. Cant rememebr the name, but no one from WI.

Between this forum & the Fusion forum, I think a few have succumbed to illness's not related to snowmobiling, and a couple of close calls that did not result in death.
Some from equipment failure, One guy installed gauntlets on his fusion and it entrapped the throttle flipper at near WFO, he was able to bail off and save himself. the sled was a total loss. it looked like a piece of paper wadded up into a ball.
Another was returning from a short trip on his sled, and where the trail crosses an abandoned road he encountered a plow berm that was not present when he was through there an hour earlier. Fractured kidney, broken femur, spinal injuries, Etc. Etc. when the mechanic did a parameter recall on the ECM, it showed he was at 82% throttle and traveling at 118 (not bad for a fusion!!)
Could you imagine hitting a berm at those speeds? Ouch!!

One of my friends has a wife that works at Perkins in Woodruff, she has been serving the same group of riders breakfast all week, their 2nd last day up here one of the guys shows up with his arm in a sling and road-rash across his face. he caught a snowdrift on Lake Tomahawk at speeds in excess of 45 MPH, came off the sled and lost his helmet on impact! Dislocated shoulder, slight fracture to one of the bones in the lower arm, Broken collarbone and lots of scabs from sliding across the ice on his face.
How can you lose a helmet?? I always have mine strapped on securely! Are their actually people that ride unstrapped? I have considered getting a "Horse-Collar" neck support to better protect my neck in the event of an "unintended dismount"

How about a "Close-Call" topic?
We discuss wrecks that did not end up in a fatality, But that was still a wreck.
The more this type of thing is discussed, the more some people will realize what can actually happen during a snowmobile wreck and it might get people to ride a little more respectfully of others and their surroundings. make them realize they are not 10-feet tall & bulletproof when on a sled!
Education instead of more laws!

There have already been a couple of the fatalities that the news story said that the helmet was not fastend properly and it came off on impact. PEOPLE ! an unstrapped helmet provides about the same protection as a baseball cap. I know you can't find the D rings when your drunk, and it takes sooooo much extra time away from riding, well duuuuuhhhhhh!

The horse collar or HANS device only works when you are sitting in a fixed position and it can also be strapped to something substantial. The closed cell foam ones may add to your injury, but they will not provide you an ounce of prevention from injury. The closed cell foam ones were originally designed to help you steady your helmet from buffetting at high speeds. You can usually control the weight of a helmet at up to about 160 before it starts to fatigue you, and that would be after a prolonged period.

I applaud your attempt to try to start a thread and letting everyone know what can happen, but nothing will ever happen to all of these riders, they are all very experienced so nothing can possibly ever happen to them.

People who do not wear helmets, or stap them properly, do not need them !

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/safety/snowstats.htm

Looks like we have a death that wasn't reported on the DNR website yet. One of my employees called me on weds morning and said her son-in-law was killed. I didnt ask how at the time, but she called this weekend and told me he was out snowmobiling with some buddies tues night and T-boned a car. He died on the scene as far as i know. I dont know too many other details, but wow. Younger guy, i think in his mid 20's or so. I think she said he was in the fon du lac area.

Keep the family in your prayers, they are great people and i am sure this is a huge blow to them.

It was a wreck-filled weekend up here, I was doing some computer work and listening to my 100 channel scanner at the same time. The EMT's were busy getting the injured to treatment.

I heard of at least 4-5 different wrecks that required ambulance transport in a 2-hour period on Sunday afternoon! Broken wrist's, Ribs & spinal injuries from Rhinelander up to presque isle and everything in between.

That makes me wonder how many wrecks I didn't hear about, and the ones that didn't require medical transport.

The DNR records all wrecks, Where can we see those results published??
I would really like to see the BAC's and speculated causes to the non-fatal wrecks. maybe that would show us how well their efforts are panning out.

I am betting it does not show the speed limit in a favorable manner and therefore will not be made public.

We all know this nighttime limit is just a pre-cursor to a 24/7 limit. We as a group gave them an inch, now they will take that mile!

We have been round and round on this issue a number of times. We at least agree we would rather see something other than more speed laws.

The Tavern League has the hands of the DNR tied up to the point that it is hindering their ability to effectively run trail checks.

As a group, snowmobilers have been given the rope to hang themselves with the 55 at night, and they are giving the State all the ammunition they will need to institue the 24/7 speed limit. The legislators will say that the deaths in the states with a 24/7 speed limit have not spiked this year, even with record snows, and sustained traffic.

Ultimately we will have nobody to blame for this but ourselves. You may be responsible, I may be responsible, but it is those who do not think that they are part of the problem, and that is the problem.

Ride Safe, Ride Sober

I don't agree with this statement. I've responded to dozens of snowmobile accidents with our ambulance. The only time I've seen DNR officials on scene is at the fatalities.

Judging from all the parts lying in the woods, there are hundreds of wrecks that go unreported.

We would need a lot more wardens in the state if they were required to be at every accident with injuries!

everytime you open your trap you sound like a bigger IDIOT

At the end of the day sleds are dangerous. It is what it is.

I don't know if its being a father now or what, but I have cut out drinking considerably (maybe a sip or 2 at the end of the day close to home) and Im definitely riding more defensive.

Wrong, it's the people who ride them, are you one of those people who believes guns kill people?

I think what he's trying to say is " snowmobiling in it's entirety is a dangerous sport to say the least" we ride along only inches from tree's at 55mph or alot more. One problem and it could be over. On coming traffic on the same trail heading at you like a missle. Unknown obstacles around every bend, corners full of ice with no warning.
Yes, this is a dangerous sport and there are going to be deaths It's up to each of us to educate oursleves and our children to at least make it as safe as we can for all our sakes or big government will do it for us with speed limits, horsepwer, etc

The sad thig about our sport is the people that have never experienced the freedom and joy of sledding don't understand it. They may never understand it either. So it starts with us.

There are inherent dangers in every day life, what I dislike is the sensationalism, generated especially by the media who tend to always blame the trails, alcohol, speed or the sport in general, very rarely if at all do they blame the individual, personal responsibility will give you the best chance at avoiding danger.

Speaking of unknown obstacles around every corner, can't believe how many people I've seen this year coming around corners on the wrong side of the trail, we ride with our kids alot, you really have to be a defensive driver.

Front page article today in the Wisconsin State Journal on Wi snowmobile deaths this season and the 55mph speed limit. Article's not posted yet on the WSJ web site. Some interesting quotes from from the DNR....

Dave,
I was just looking at that very article.
Kind of interesting.

Article is up. Can be read here

or

Feb 26, 9:12 AM EST


DNR: 24 snowmobilers killed so far this winter

By ROBERT IMRIE
Associated Press Writer


Advertisement




WAUSAU, Wis. (AP) -- Snowmobile crashes on Wisconsin trails have killed 24 riders so far this winter - up 40 percent from a year ago - but fewer than might be expected given snow conditions, a state safety expert says.

"With the really record snowfall across Wisconsin, I guess you would assume those fatality numbers would be higher, just because there is more riding opportunity," Gary Eddy, snowmobile safety administrator for the Department of Natural Resources, said Monday.

He credited the 55 mph nighttime speed limit on trails for holding down the deaths. The speed limit was instituted last year.

Over the past 12 years, Wisconsin has averaged 27 snowmobile deaths per season, according to DNR records. The record for snowmobiling deaths is 39 during the 1999-2000 winter, all of them occurring before Feb. 25.

Last year at this time, 17 people had died in snowmobile crashes - but that was considered an extremely poor snowmobiling year, Eddy said. This year, conditions are nearly ideal.

"Certainly in my lifetime, I don't remember a season with such good winter conditions as we have this year," Eddy said. "I have talked to some folks who snowmobile quite a bit. They really can't remember a year like this."

The snow has brought an increase in snowmobile registrations, typically about 215,000 per year, and deaths have increased with more people on the trails, he said. Snowmobile deaths have occurred this year in some places that historically don't have them, such as Dodge and Monroe counties, he said.

Twin Lakes received 4 inches of fresh snow late Monday and early Tuesday, while Burlington received 3 inches, Union Grove 2, Madison 1.1 and Milwaukee 0.9 as heavier amounts fell slightly to the south in Illinois, the National Weather Service said.

The snowmobile season typically lasts until early March, at best, in southern Wisconsin and at least the second week of March in the far northern part of the state. But it could go longer if the weather stays cold.

Ice conditions on lakes were still good Monday with no major warmup yet forecast, Eddy said.

This season has seen more head-on crashes of snowmobiles, and Eddy said he wasn't sure why.

"Certainly some of them involved intoxicated snowmobilers, but some involve operators who are not intoxicated," he said.

Law enforcement officials are reporting more compliance with the 55 mph speed limit, which remains on the books through 2010, Eddy said.

"At night when you get speeds above 55 mph, there is basically no chance to stop or avoid hitting the hazard in front of you," he said. "When you are going at speeds above 55, about all you can do is just know you are going to hit something and brace yourself.

Like i have said before... The DNR would have swung this news to thier benefit in any direction it went. This year the death toll went up... but thats good to them somehow. If it went down, you know they would be singing thier own praises loud and clear too. I am just surprised they didnt come out giving themselves credit a lot sooner.

They do not show up for non-fatals, but they are required to investigate them. The medical providers are instructed to notify the DNR if they are treating a snowmobile related injury.

A few years back I brought a wreck victim back home on my sled so his mother could get him treated at the hospital, within 1 hour of him being back home (wearing a cast) a DNR warden showed up at thier house threatening a several hundred dollar fine for not reporting the wreck immediately. This wreck happened on X-Mas eve right before dark, and the kid got home after dark!
The kid had a deer jump out in front of him on the bearskin and he nailed a tree trying to avoid hitting the deer. That steep embankment sucked him right down into the trees. nothing he could do.

I know their are statistics out there for non-fatals, And I would like to see them and read what the circumstances were. Like I said before, it probably is damning evidence that the speed limit is useless.

Tons of applicable content in that post. How long did it take you to think of all those meaningless words, 1 day, 2?

seems to me the shoe fits you know where to put it

I know their are statistics out there for non-fatals, And I would like to see them and read what the circumstances were. Like I said before, it probably is damning evidence that the speed limit is useless.
[/quote]

The speed limit is useless if everyone disregards it because they know there in little or no enforcement. The speed Limit is 65 on Interstate 39/51, but you usually do not get tagged until you are above 77, so everyone is going 75, and those that are going 80-85 are rolling the dice that the cop is already busy when they fly by.

Without proper enforcement you could have 100 laws that would all be useless because there is no threat of any consequence. OWI on a sled is a perfect example, pay the fine and walk away. I could not pull up the information from last year, but the number of tickets issued for speeding throughout the entire state was such a low number that you probably had better odds of winning the lottery.

i contribute the huge number to all the complete morons i have seen on the trails. it seems that there have not been many sled on sled collisions, so i don;t think we can say that the speeding law isn;t working?!?!? there is no way to determine if the law worked or not. all the bitchin that was done before the season and we will never have an answer, LOL. the anti-law guys were so quick to say that the reason the deaths went down from the year before last to last year was because of the snow, but they will not admit that this year is the same situation only reversed. guys like me that support the law will no doubt use things like i mentioned in the first sentence as the excuse for the deaths. either way, i wish that we could have a thread in this forum without it turning into a "speed limit" thread

my opinion on this year:
I will put my sled away this weekend and call it a season. over 2000 miles logged all over wisconsin and michigan, meeting some great people from here, and great snow made this my most memorable year ever. overall though, i think it was a horrible year for the sport of snowmobiling.
the sport will take a huge hit this year in the public eye with all the deaths and damages around the entire state. I have never seen so many riders on the trails, and with that I have never been so ashamed. Before this season I never felt ashamed of the sport or fellow riders, or wished that spring would come and end what i usually wish would never end. However, this season i found myself in awe of what i not only seen on the trails, but also what i saw on the news, and heard around town. thanks to these idiots that pull out their carhart bibs and the POS sled that hasn;t seen the trail in almost 10 years, we have lost anything that we had gained over the last 8 years of low snow. People who abandoned the sport when mother nature turned on us, now had a reason to return. The return of this segment of the population should have meant great things. it should have meant more club memberships, more revenue, more people introduced to what we love. Instead it packed trails with inexperienced riders, driving inferior machines, and it brought the drunks that were happy watching it snow from the bar stools out to our playground. It meant landowners finding crops damaged, trees runover, and their hobbies disrupted. I find myself now hoping to never see record snowfall locally again. I am happy having to trailer my sled to share the trails with dedicated snowmobilers like the people on this site, people who do not let mother nature decide when they are a sledder. a big thank you to all the guys here that are active club members. I rode some awesome trails, and some not so awesome, but any trail, no matter how bad, would be way worse without volunteers. If i passed anyone on here, i hope that i waved, LOL! i hope we can all put aside our differences over this summer and truly start working to forward the sport.

I think it is funny that it takes a law for something as simple as driving safe on a trail to get people to smarten up. ........."ohh, without it I can do what ever I want, right"....Dumb___'s

You are absolutely correct on some of your observations, but these are public trails and it does not say anywhere that you have to have a certain style of clothing, or your sled has to meet a certain performance criteria. I just bought a new sled for the fleet, but I also updated another. I just bought a 10 year old sled that had just over 1k miles for my wife. This thing looked like it was just our of the showroom. Someone bought it for the Family and the Family just went out once in awhile so it only got about 100 miles per year. That is the level of commitment you get from most riders. Heck my wife put 300 on the first weekend she rode it.

I am sure you never think twice when you are in your car if the person coming at you is driving for the first time, been driving for 60 years, has a medical condition, is drunk, can't pass an eye exam, is on medication, or whatever. And again the public trail system is there for everyone to enjoy so you will run into people who may have not ridden in awhile, and good for them. If more people come back to snowmobiling, then good for snowmobiling. If people come back to check it out again, and realize what they have missed, good for them. You are right, many people will not dedicate themselves to snowmobiling enough to trailer their sleds, pay for hotels and food, extras along the way, many financially cannot do it. Others would rather spend the money somewhere warm. The point is they are spending it on snowmobiling again, and that is a good thing.

Ultimately, the night time speed limit may or may not work, and who cares. If you were one of the lucky five to get a ticket last year, whoopeeeeee! I think that people are riding more aware, some may be putting down the drinks until after the ride is over. With snows like we have not seen since the late 70's, record miles are being put up, without a major spike in rider deaths. You would think that with the sustained snow coverage in the State this season there would have been many more accidents that resulted in death, but it has not happend. I think, and I hope that the reason is that riders of all ages are starting to think more when they are riding. How many riders have posted on this site all year that they are riding differently, maybe slowing down a smidge, being a little more careful, driving more defensive, but they still had a good time.

Luvthemud,

That was an excellent paragraph that you wrote and just reading it, I could feel your passion. You are 100% right about what happened withour sport this year. It is too bad that mindless idiots that post on here think that snowmobiling is a RIGHT and not a privlidge.

Personally I am sick with anger at all of the "Fareweather Snowmobilers" that I saw this year traiding in their pickup trucks for a P.O.S. sled to go to the bar. On the way they drive over our signs, cut through private property, dig ruts in our trails at every stop, wave at me when I try to signal riders following and then come home completely hammered on a machine that they have very little skill to operate with.
The worst part about this, (I know I am going to hear about this one!) is that the worst drunk snowmobiler is an inexperienced rider. I am only 27 years old but I have put on probably 20,000 miles on sleds. I have been stupid and rode drunk before and I have 100x more control and knowledge that the guy that hasent ridden his sled in two years. Drunk or not, I know that it isnt easy to stop when you are going 100mph. This does not forgive me from being in the wrong by any matter and I do not do this on a regular basis but everyone that drinks has ridden their sled drunk (as well as your car) at some point in their life. THis includes me.

I wish that before you could go out and pick up your $500 1991 Skidoo 340, you were forced to learn a bit about the sport. We dont give a drivers licence to a 16 year old on his birthday just because he is old enough to drive. This is the mentality of these 20-50 year old newbies that we see.
You really want to save lives, here it is........MAKE EVERYONE TAKE A SNOWMOBILE SAFETY CLASS. Just becuase you are 40 years old, it does not mean that you have a clue what it means to be a snowmoblier. If you could live without riding a sled in the last few years, you sure are not going to care as much if the trail you are on isnt their next year.

Oh....and yes JohnnyV, the trails are public and open to all but you know damn well what Luvthemud was talking about so please dont waste our time with more of your bullsthit comments.

Dude, you're talking out your ass!!!! Just because I don't have the cash to go out and buy the newest, fastest sled with matching bibs and shit doesn't mean I don't ride my sled every year. I have a 91 Phazer that gets ridden hard every year since new. The 72 Rupp that got replaced by the Phazer still hits the trail on occasion. I wear my Carharts because I don't see a reason to waste money on fancy looking shit to ride in. It's the assholes like you who think they are the only ones that should be allowed on the trails that ruin it for the sport! I say ride what ya got, and wear what ever it takes to stay warm and have fun. I know I don't have the fastest sled on the trail, and I know I ain't gonna win any fashion contest, but I have just as much fun on the snow, maybe more! Don't put people down because they don't have the funds to buy new shit every few years, I have toys for every season, none are new, but all have the fun factor. And by the way, my "inferior machines" have towed 5 sleds off the trail this year, every one was less than 3 years old. Mine has never been towed. If ya ever see me, I'll be the one with Carharts and Badger coat riding a 91 Phazer with ripped seat, come over and say hi, I'd love to call you an asshole to your face!

I dont think that he meant it like that. Who cares what you ride, I have a 2006 and 2007 Yamaha and they are both broke right now and I am riding a 2000 Yamaha that has been flawless this year.

Was there something in my post that upset you, or did you get up this morning and feel the need to be a jagoff today?

I would love to hear the clarification of what you think "advancing this sport" means???

Just speculation, but from your previous posts I am expecting to hear your argument for a 24/7 speed limit and more legislation. I'll be blunt, I think your an idiot for supporting the speed limit law as it is just a precursor to many more to come. And I am sorry you feel the need for the government to make your hobby safer for you. I dont, I knew from the first moment I bought my first sled that the thing is dangerous and I could die on it. If I wanted someone to hold my hand and try to give me a safe winter hobby; I would take up ping pong and buy some thick safety goggles just so the ball could never hit me in the eye. People that are riding on the trails should be well aware that the person coming in the opposite direction did not need any training to get on that sled, they weren't required to show competence. But instead of making competent riders, we make laws... great idea!!! Way to advance the sport there bud. Keep up the good fight, you will see your 24/7 limit soon.