A must Watch for any IL Snowmobiler.....

Ten days ago, Randy Salerno was taken from us in a horrific snowmobile accident. Since then, four people have died in similar crashes. TONIGHT AT 10PM, CBS 2 Investigator Dave Savini takes a look at the culture of snowmobiling and why more isn't being done to stop these tragedies.
Also tonight, Chief Correspondent Jay Levine has new information about what may have caused the crash.

http://cbs2chicago.com/video/?id=39281@wbbm.dayport.com

My deepest sympathy to all of these families but I will be very interested to see if this "call to stop these tragedies" in anyway discusses personal responsibility.

While it is such a tradgedy what happened, more people die on Motorcycles and most Snowmobile deaths can be avoided. While the general public is retarded, they want to blame the sport. I hate to say it, but in 10 years, we won't have any land to drive on anyways. My condolences once again to the family's that were involved.

Keep us posted as I'm on the road and can't watch. I hope they do it well!

I am sure it will be available afterwards on their web site. www.cbs2chicago.com

We watched the piece on Channel 2 and are just totally appalled on how they protrayed snowmobilers as a whole. The way they made it seem, we're all just a bunch of drunks, racing across lakes from bar to bar. What they don't seem to realize is 95% percent of us have families who travel with us and enjoy the sport just as much as we do, sometimes more.

Here is a copy of the email my wife sent to Channel 2 in response to their shitty portrayal of snowmobiling.

"Dear Channel 2,

I am 36 years old, married to a wonderful husband who is soon to be 40 and also have a 15 year old son. The three of us are AVID snowmobilers. My husband has been riding snowmobiles since he was 12. My son at the age of 11 took and received his snowmobile safety certificate from the Illinois DNR to be able to ride his own sled.

While we are very saddened about the loss of Randy Salerno, we are even more saddened by your piece that aired this evening portraying snowmobilers as "drunks".

Not all snowmobilers are just out to go to the bars and have a good 'ol time, and if you really look at the statistics of the snowmobile related deaths, yes alcohol and speed may have attributed to the accident, but where were those people from? Alot of the deaths occurring in Wisconsin are people from the state of Wisconsin, not all out of state people.

Personally, I feel that Channel 2 owes the snowmobiling community an apology for protraying us all as drunks. I realize that Channel 2 was just trying to put an awareness out to the public, but as a FAMILY of 3 who registers, insures and pays the yearly trail permit fee's when riding out of state this dosen't mean that we just go to Wisconsin or Michigan to drink. We work very hard throughout the summer to be able to go away in the winter time to enjoy our most loved hobby of snowmobiling. We spend thousands of dollars on machines, clothing, hotels and rental properties, not to mention contributing to Michigan's and Wisconsin's failing economy. The people of these two states depend on Out of State visitors like ourselves to take care of their own families and welfare. What we don't spend thousands of dollars on is alcohol!

There is responsibility when getting on a machine like these. They are making them faster and faster year after year. Not everybody is out in the beautiful northwoods for a race from bar to bar. That would be like saying that everybody who owns a boat on the chain o'lakes only owns a boat to go from bar to bar.

Thanks for giving us snowmobilers another black eye. Next time maybe you should do a bit more research on how enjoyable the sport can be focusing on the positives and not solely on the negative which Channel 2 seems to always manage to do. I'll have you know that we only tuned in to see this piece tonight and are appalled to say the least! "

Very well said. DJ

Fuck Channel 2 news. Never watching that again. They could have said restaurants, but they said Bars. Just because a place sells alcohol, it's not called a Bar. Look at how many people get DUI's in their car every weekend? They just made a big deal about it cause they lost a co-worker. I'm moving on and while I feel for their family, this just goes to show you Money can't buy intelligence. Kinda funny how his friends say 1 drink and the BAC content over 2.2? They want to blame everything on Drinking.

You can see the videpo report here: http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/snow...n.2.645922.html

There's a 4 minute report and makes for some good watching. The piece does have some truth to it as I have witnessed it first hand, but the new report for TOTALLY bias. It just irriates me to see this happening as there are many responsible snowmobilers in the sport. Again, My thoughts DO go out to the families, but this is not what the sport needs right now.

Nick

I would agree. the one's doing it , do this with there car,boat,motorcycle, etc.
These people know who they are, and hopefully change there ways.
Even when I was young it was the same drunks whether it was snowmobiling
or camping with them, that was the poor choice they made. But in no way
should it mean the entire culture is about stoping at these place's to get wasted
and then ride. I look forward to warming up eating and may have one drink but
most of the time i have pop. Its about teaching resposibility across the board not
just in the snowmobile world but everyday!! Set safe guidelines and follow them!!

i hope that helped their ratings. i never watch cbs. and that didnt change my mind

Great email Deb, so Jerry keep us posted if they have the balls to reply to her on that great email.

Frank

I knew as soon as we saw this thing coming up that it would be a sensationalized piece, and not in a good way. When my wife and I watched this segment last night we just shook our heads at how wrong the content was. I even posted in the Wisconsin section yesterday that I hope some idiot does not go shooting off his mouth hoping for his 15 minutes......Well, a hidden camera just got some idiot to shoot off his mouth without even knowing it. I am also sure that since they were up there for a long period of time, that there was alot more tape shot. What happend to all of the rest of the tape? I know, it eneded up in the garbage because it was not sensational enough to included in the piece.

When I mentioned that I wanted to watch channel two last night my wife looked at me funny,. She will never have to ever hear me make that suggestion again. Shame on channel 2 for only telling one side of the story, and only one very bad side of an incredible winter activity.

As sad as it is that two families from Crystal Lake will have children grow up without Fathers, and as unfortunate it is that Randy Salerno was killed in a snowmobiling accident, this piece was poorly put together. When they interviewed the friend that was with them, and showed the pictures of the trip I wanted to get sick. That one friend of his said that they did not have more than one drink at each stop, that was total crap. Any logical person knows that you do not get to 3 times the legal limit and do not see it. What they failed to mention is the fact that they did not draw any blood from the driver for 4 hours after the incident, and when they drew a second smple it only came up at .188. Do the math, the driver was really drunk when it happend, and their friend sat there and tried to make us believe they did not drink much all day. You would never get in a car with someone who was that drunk, but someone got on a snowmobile and let someone that drunk drive them across the lake. So drunk that in fact he went the total oposite direction from where they were staying.

It is not a wonder why channel two is the lowest rated newscast......

Ride safe,

Excellent e-mail for them to read and take into thought, but,,,,, Will they have the guts to respond?

dude seriously. Fuck them...it's "Snowmobiling's" Fault because some asshole made a poor descion

He's a grown man for fuck sake...know your limits

Just like it is the Guns fault, for shooting people!!!!

God Forbid you blame the guy pulling the trigger!!

My email to CBS

["What a really poor and biased report on snowmobiling, CBS completely missed the reasons people love to snowmobile. Just because you lost Randy for making poor judgments does not give you the right to run such one sided story.

My wife and i just got back from the U.P. of Mi. from a Make A Wish ride for charity.
150 people and none of the crap that that you reported was going on. 280 trouble free miles of great trail riding in 2 days.

Really a shame the way you portrayed snowmobiling and riders. One more reason my family will no longer watch CBS...."]


trackstand

I sent an e-mail to those assclowns today as well.

Here is what I wrote:

"I would like to take the time to let you know of my displeasure over your recent so called news story you ran about snowmobiling called "Deadly Culture Of Speed, Alcohol And Snowmobiling: Wisconsin Snowmobile Deaths On An Upswing".

Thank you for catagorizing us all as a bunch of drunken crazy fools who can't control our machines or our drinking!

Your so called news story was completely biased and one sided. All your reporters manged to do was go from bar to bar interviewing a selected few individuals who happened to be inebriated.

They could have easily done this story driving a car, truck, or motorcycle from bar to bar any were in the country and come up with the same exact story.

I am truely sorry to hear of the loss of Randy's life due to an accident while snowmobiling and do understand that you have the right to grieve over his loss as well as the right to free speech. But like many others I feel that you are attacking the sport of snowmobiling unfairly and with out bias.

In your so called news story I didn't see any interviews done out on the trails with responsible riders? How come?

In defense of the sport of snowmobiling there are far more responsible riders in the sport than there are irresponsible ones.

Unfortunate as it may have been the loss of Randy's life was due to a series of poor decisions made on his part and on the part his freind that are soley to blame for his death and not the sport of snowmobiling.

As a part of the responsible snowmobiling public I will speak for us all by saying we would like you to recant your story! At the very least run another story that is biased and fair!

Thank you for your time,
Jay"

Has anyone gotten a reply from them smart media guys yet? And they wonder why most people don't listen to what they say on TV!

I'm trying to play the "name the place game" in the video and I know the one bar was T-Birds in St Germain, anyone else have an either of the other places?

I have seen two conflicting reports on Randy Salerno's BAC. I was wondering if anyone else had seen anything.

In one instance I saw that it was .33, obviously over the legal limit. On the Wisconsin DNR website they posted it at .03, that would be way under. If it was as posted on the DNR website, you really have to wonder why in the world he would have given up control of his sled to someone that 4 hours after the incident still was .24

Such a tragic loss, and completly avoidable. RIP Randy,

.03 is what they had on the news. Doesn't make any sense as to why he let his buddy drive the sled.

Funny follow up, we were up north this weekend and on CBS from Green Bay was adding to their "Sister station" as they said, about the DNR is tryinng to tie DUIs to your Driver License, but the funny part they said at the end, WI had 86 deaths in three years and IL only 12. I mean just how dumb are they look at how many more miles of trails and more snow in WI. They just like hearing themsleves talk I think.

But I think it would be great if they can pass that. They did say it helped in MN.

Did anyone read the article in the Naperville Sun on Friday? They just wont let up. A ton of sober trouble free miles rode through out the country this year and they focus in on one drunk. Lets start showing the good side of the sport. Young rider education, family values and public service. The article came about because of Randy's unfortinute death but what we have not heard is what was his bac at the time of death. Was he sober or did he make a bad decision and pay the ultimate price "his life". Again I am sorry that he died but everyone is keying on the negative and not the good of the sport. If he was not a news reporter would any of this have been mentioned? It's about time the good side of the sport shined through.

I didnt see it but I sure am pissed after reading this!!!!!!!!!!!

Great e-mails everybody!
Please anyone else that saw this horrible news report respond to them with a similar e-mail.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervi...7_SNOWMOBILE_S2.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervi...BILE_S1.article

Sarge,

Here is the link to both stories that the Naperville Sun printed last week. Although these are unflattering stories and some of the facts are sensationalized, not to mention that Dave Savini from CBS 2 in Chicago contributed to the story. The story itself does a very good job of pin pointing the core problem of snowmobiling and drinking. The fine is nothing, it is just money. Until the penalties go against your Drivers License, who cares about the money.

As I posted earlier.... Randy Salerno's BAC was .03, as confirmed by a couple of different sources. I cannot understand why anyone would give up control of ANY vehicle to a person who was still 3 times the legal limit as much as 4 hours after the accident.

Ride Safe, Ride Sober,

I could not agree with you more. Some times we as riders are our own worst enemy of the sport. My big complaint is that it takes sometnig negative like this for the sport to get any press. If its not bad news theres no news. Once I would love to have a reporter sit through one of my safety classes and print something about the kids or even biginer adults that learned the right way to enjoy snowmobiling. I would just like to see something positive in print once.

I think what Sarge is trying to say is, the media will only show this black eye of our sport and not the good, therefore, the majority of the people see us in this bad light and not the good.

You stated, it is just money....who cares about the money. Isn't that what everyone cares about? Why do people care if it goes on their driver's record---because it cost more for insurance correct? I don't think they should mess with the driving record, it is a snowmobile not a auto. The real issue would be taken care of if the fine is high enough to be a deterent and if the law is enforced enough. Who can't absorb a $600 fine, how many would make a different decision if the fine was 6 grand instead of 6 hundred? If every law enforcement agency made $2000 on each snowmobile arrest, there would be very few drunk snowmobilers.

You are correct about the media, but then again, they rarely show the good side of anything, that's why it is news.

On the second point, here is where I disagree with you. Again, even if the fine was so outrageous, it is still just money, that is no consequence. And if the fine is too high they just do not pay it. So what if they have a warrant put out for them, just do not do anything wrong because any infraction would trigger the warrant alert in that state only. And there is nothing to attach it to either. That would be like the bank giving you a 1000 loan and never sending a payment book and never following up on it.

If it gets tagged to your DL, it goes against your insurance, if you can get some. That fine keeps getting paid for 5 years. And the states fine gets paid before your licence gets reinstated. Personally, the fines could be a million and I could care less, I do not drink when I ride. The problem is there is no consequence and people are doing stupid things because the penalty is about the same as a parking ticket.

Ride Safe, Ride Sober,

I think we both agree that Wisconsin doesn't see this as a big issue or they would A. arrest more people (about one person per day is arrested in the winter.....279 drunken snowmobile operators that were caught along the trails since 2003) and they would B. increase the fine (worst case is a $640 fine for refusing a test). I just think there are many tools that don't involve messing with a DL that should be tried first like confiscating the sled, writing more tickets and increasing the fine.

[quote name='sno sub' date='Mar 15 2008, 04:55 PM' post='3789746']
I think we both agree that Wisconsin doesn't see this as a big issue or they would A. arrest more people (about one person per day is arrested in the winter.....279 drunken snowmobile operators that were caught along the trails since 2003) and they would B. increase the fine (worst case is a $640 fine for refusing a test). I just think there are many tools that don't involve messing with a DL that should be tried first like confiscating the sled, writing more tickets and increasing the fine.
[/q


Better enfprcement has to have a penalty that will deter the activity. You can write a thousand tickets and it does not matter if tomorrow morning they post bail and can go do the same thing again.


Confiscating sleds is a money drain on the arresting agency. It takes months for the case to clear the court system. A shrewd lawyer could tie it up for up to 3 years or more. So the sled has to stay in storage, even if it just for six months. The cost to tow, store, and auction a sled that may only bring a few hundred dollars could cost the arresting agency a huge amount of money. Even the newer sleds are only going to bring a few thousand tops, and that gets eaten up in expenses quickly. Plus if the newer sleds have a loan against them, the lien holder gets paid first, storage and auction cost get paid next, and the arresting agency has to cover the shortfall to the towing, storage and auction companies. What about if they are riding a rental? There just is not enough money to make this a viable tool because it could take funds away from the trail system that is already so strapped for cash, especially this year. Not to mention that the violator wakes up in the morning, goes out and gets a new sled in five minutes.

There is also a database attached to your DL that is established and can be accessed by any number of enforcement agencies. Starting one from scratch would cost a fortune, and an arresting agency may have to cross reference numerous sets of data to find the history of an offender.

Everyone can look at every angle to avoid attachment to your DL. Unfortunately there is not any alternatives that are a proven deterent. Wouldn't it make you think just a wee bit harder if you knew that extra rum and coke could cost you a fortune in insurance, maybe your job, maybe more?

Wisconsin also has a law that says that there needs to be another violation witnessed by the Officer before they can check sobriety. You could fall off you sled in front of a cop and they cannot do anything as long as you do not violate any other laws first.

I can also tell you with great conviction that I love to have a few beers, and sometimes more than my share, it's been a very long time since I drove any vehicle drunk, and it has been longer since I have driven a snowmobile in any state of intoxication. We save the beers for when we are done riding. It's a good thing that they cannot tag drunken grilling to anything of substance.

Ride Safe, Ride Sober

I could not agree more!!!! It needs to be attached to your DL. People are out there with there familys and kids. I have had parents of kids in my safety class that said they do not ride after dark for that reason. They dont want someone who has been drinking taking out their kid. You should not have to ride with a fear like that. HELL my parents dont rine any more because of their age but when they know that I am on a trip I hear from them every day making sure that I'm ok. Not because they are worried about me drinking and driving, they know I will not do that. They worry because they know that I like to ride at night and they spent 25 years in the sport before it was popular and sean the REMAINS of two sleds and riders coliding head-on on a lake.

Everyone is debating the money verses DL attachment but niether of those are the reason that I dont drink while I ride. If I hit a tree and kill myself thats one thing (my own stupidity) but I dont want to have to tell my budies wife and kids that I killed their husband or father because I was to drunk to avoid him. Or killed someone hitting them head-on because I was drunk and could not stay on my side of the trail.

Like Johnny said I also enjoy a drink and I will drink with the best of you all night long but not till we STOP for the night!!!!

Well this discussion is somewhat useless since you guys and myself already will never put ourselves in a position to get an OUI. What will motivate those who will drink hard and ride to stop doing it is beyond me. Maybe it is difficult to get the money or handle confiscated sleds but I don't think so. You brought up rental, well the renting place will just make them pay for the sled as they can't return it. In IL on drug busts, the law gets to seize everything, cash, guns, vehicles, etc, the agencies love this law. The bottom line of my opinion is that the law agencys should get the extra cash not the insurance companies.

Your first sentence hit the nail on the head. If you do not put yourself in a position to get tagged, you have nothing to worry about. The fine could be a million, and it could get tagged to your house for all I care, I am not an offender.

The siezures that happen when they make a drug bust are in some ways the same, but sled just do not bring the same money. In a drug bust a house could bring hundreds of thousands, less if there is a bank note. Only a small percentage of the cars bring any real money, just the high end stuff, and again, if the bank has a note, they get paid first. You are not comparing apples to apples. Sleds may bring 2-3k for the high end stuff, but most will only bring in the hundreds. Heck, I just bought a pristine sled from a private party that was just a smidge over a grand, and it was just a few years old. At auction that sled is worth 5-700, tops.

The arresting agencies will for sure get their money. The fine in Wisconsin is about 700 plus costs for your first offence. As we post here, the Wisconsin state assembly is have discussions and will vote to have an OWI tagged to your DL. They already have the same law for boats and WC, and the accidents and deaths dropped almost 40% the first year. The only offence that gets tagged is OWI, I think.

Ride Safe, Ride Sober

Johnny, you are coming off sounding like an expert here and I am certainly not one so I won't continue to bring up points only to have you tell me how wrong I am. However you state that WI will vote this in, is that a prediction on your part seeing how no law has been introduced to vote on. Also, in the last paragraph you state they have already done this for boats and WC, who is they? It can't be WI because they have no such law. Where did you get the 40%, what was it for and who gave it out.

Liberalism run amok....they feel a DEEP need to save us from ourselves, it's the liberal way...create ever more laws and rules to "protect' us from ourselves, because we are too stupid to be trusted with our own lives...and they are SO much smarter and wiser....just ask them..

I am no expert, just a guy who reads a ton of information and is interested in how this plays out.

I did not post that they have voted in anything yet. What I did say was they had it on the assembly floor this week for discussion. They may vote on it later this week. Anyway you look at it, it is way overdue.

Yes, I can say for a fact that an OWI while driving a boat in Wisconsin gets tagged to your DL, it has been that way since 04, or 05. The reduction in the deaths comes from information available through the Wisconsin DNR, and other news sources in Wisconsin. Besides, ANY reduction is a good thing, and significant.

Would like to know more about this boat law and the reduction in deaths, please post this info so I don't continue to misinform people. I thought you only lost your Boating Safety Certificate and nothing was done to your DL.

In Wisconsin you get tagged on your DL if you are caught OWI in a boat, and only for OWI. Other infractions are still like parking tickets. I am sure that is the way they are looking at the snowmobile version too.

If you drink and ride, please go to the link and answer the question.
Thanks.

WI OUI penalty options

i have never had a drink and get on a sled or a bike or a car and ride and i will not ride with anyone that does
its that simple drink after your done for the nite

While I agree with most that has been said about oui's, owi's, dui's etc., i will agree that Wisconsin is a Bar freindly snowmobile state. We continunue thru Wisconsin to the UP because there are less bars per mile on the trails. When we ride into Wisconsin, I have definatelty had more close calls coming around blind corners with sleds coming at me on the wrong side of the trail going to fast. We just take that factor out of the equation. I don't ride slowly either, I have always owned the fastest machines made, and modded them to go faster. I consider myself a very skilled rider with 25 plus years of riding experience and I am in good shape and able to handle my machines. i think that when there is plenty of snow in Wisconsin, the up is a better option because most people will stay south so they dont have to drive to far to ride, especially with gas prices as high as they are. When we go south into Wisc, I notice that it seem like every trail runs thruogh or across the street for bars, and I say bars as that is there primary function, while they do sell foods, I bet they alcohol brings in a majority of there money. You will always see people drinking there and riding, I will even have one with dinner. But we as adults have to monitor ourselves more than anything. We have a group of guy from 15-25 of us that do many trips a year, and some of the guys will bring beers with them, but if you watch us, one guy will open a beer, and two or three guys share it, and this would happen about every thirty miles, so no drunks, but still more drinking than I prefer, but not enough in my opiniion to impare anyone. Now once we get back to camp, all bets are off and the alcohol flows. Now, when I first started sledding in the eighties, bar to bar seemed to be the rule rather than the exception, but the machine weren't as powerful or stable as they are now, but still dangerous. It seems to me that the younger riders are more prone to drinking and riding, but I don't want to catorgorize any one group, just my observation when going into a bar/restaraunt and looking around. Just my 2 cents

when i was up in hurley wisconsin back in 2002 i got so drunk i could hardly walk and nobody that worked there cut me off or stopped me from driving. i have to say thats the LAST TIME i did that now i drink POP wisconsin need to crack down better if you ask me but thats my 2 cents worth