Ok here goes. Some background on me. I own a small snowmobile service shop. (Pleasant Air Sports) So far, this season, I have serviced and/or repaired 62 sleds since mid Oct. I also work a full time job with the state of NY. ( 3-11 shift ) Have a wife and two kids aged 4 & 5. So my chances to ride are hard to come by. At the presant time I have 8 sleds.-- 5 antiques, 1--98 ZL500, 1-- 05 F7 Firecat efi, 1--08 Z-1 Jaguar. The Jag now has 250 miles on it. This past Sat. I put 90 mi. on. The first time riding with out the kids. I do not understand how cat can call this a performance machine. Throttle response is no were near even the ZL500. The best way I can decribe it - when you sgueeze the throttle, its like the cable is a bungee cord, it streaches, than pulls you along. A week ago, I had the Jag & the ZL500 on the lake so my wife could compare. She said the 500 felt like it " Had a V8 in it". Last sun. I had the kids at the lake and only brought the F7 (and Kitty Cat) I took a short blast alone. OH MY GOD, it felt like a rocketship. I got the Jag, as a big mile trailsled. I did not expect it to run with my F7. I expected it to be "satify'ing" when you squeeze the throttle. I know it is susposed to get faster with more miles, (1000+) but I can't see that kind of improvement. I would venture to gess that the ZL500 would embarrass the Z-1, in a drag race. Ride in the bumps is the best I have ever felt. I am NOT IMPRESSED with the motor.

Something is seriously wrong here. My Jag launches to 85mph then climbs to over 100. From 50 to 85 is very fast and will throw you off the back if you are not hanging on. The 500 will be left behind so far you will have to stop for it to catch up. This machine will go with an f7 off the line until about 70-80mph ahngs with the f1 and f8 as well. You may have a serious clutching or engine issue. This si by no means a lake racer but will hang with the big boys on the trail and it will take a fair bit of lake for them to leave it. I have 1000 miles this year on it and have noticed an improvement over the last 300 or so.

I have to agree with zoso. My Nightfire has 760 miles on it and is very strong. I put 200 miles on last Saturday in northern Minnesota. The Taconite trail is wide and fast. I was hanging with 4 F8's and an F1 with no problem. I dragged a new F8 Sno Pro and we stayed together until the trail ran out, about 75-80. I think they would have higher top end but on the trail the torque is huge from corner to corner. I have had mine up to 95 and there was a little more left. Need to run on the lake this weekend. I am 6'2" and 230 so not a lightwieght. This thing handles great and ignores the bumps completely. It is quiet which is deceiving. Tried out a friends 03 ZL600 and it sounded faster. Then I got back on mine and realized it was just sound.

Get yours checked out. I love mine.

There is obviously something wrong.

The only way the 500 will be in the same area code as the Jag is if you are towing it!!

The MOTOR is the reason I bought & love this sled!! I have owned many sleds and this is the first sled I have ever owned where you can actually have full use of the throttle range and not an on/off flipper. (with the exception of my 800's but the Jag is still better)

0-70mph a Jag will hang with just about anything on the snow.

Yup, need to wait until fully broken in, then that motor really comes alive! Right now my 07 is still snappier than the 08. And the ride is one the best right now no comparison to the ZL or even my 03 F7. I'm trying to trade my 03 F7 for an Xfire for an extra sled.

check the thottle cable adjustment, sounds like it is off, mine was off alot. also track tension needs to be 2'' @ 20lbs, diamond drives need tight belts and loose tracks or they will rob mph.....

Thank you for the tip. Please understand, I work on sleds for a living. Things like track tension and belt deflection, I adj. on customer's sleds every day. Mine is spot on. Engine is only pulling about 8000 rpms. No were is the shift speed listed for this sled. I had my cat dealer call arctic on the phone and thay said " 8800 run out, rev limeter kicks in at 9000". If this was a 2 stroke, I would be taking weight out of the drive clutch. But since it is susposed to make more power after break-in, If I lighten the cam arms now, it will likley over rev in the future.

Could you let me know, what rpm,s are you shifting at?

Could you tell me your shift rpms?

My sled when it was new till about 400 miles would only pull 7800-8000 rpm, now it is around 8200-8300rpm and there is a big difference. The sweet spot is supposed to be 8500rpm, at least that is what I was told.

An update. Checked belt def. today and was suprised to find it lose. Can beleve it wore that much in only 250 mi. Sometimes we all need a reminder to check the little stuff. Need snow to test now. What is speck on throttle cable adj.?

Iam not to happy with 07 jagEB. Ipurchased it in Oct 07 got it home run really rough hard to start I took it back to the he change the plugs.Itook it home went to take it off the trailer it would not start took it back change the computer runs good. Get some snow in middle of Nov. put 30miles on still running. Go out Jan. put60miles on look down on left sideby my foot andthere is oil on running board and my foot .I take it back to dealer he did what cat told him to do on the recall they took and silcone it which huh this did not work.This was Jan.15 ended up changing the oil seal behind the drive clutch get the sled home 28.Go out today for a ride look down more oil put 30miles on any sugestion on what I should do cause it looks like its leaking in the same place.At this rate I,ll never get broke in I have150 miles on .

60 thousands between the little bump and housing hope that makes sense... mine was 130 ...

what was siliconed , something is wrong, it may be time to find a new dealer, can you post a picture of the seal or what they siliconed....

why were you running at 78- 8000 rpms before you reached 400miles mine with 1200+ miles pulls 8200 then over revs to 8380 cat tells me 8300 +- 50 then 8500 wot , IM missing 100 -150 rs still it pulls 101 -102 mph {speedo] and is fine , also thats with no studs at this time and a cobra 1.25 track I'm working on the rpm thing...

hi guys i bought a 07eb dealer demo 1200miles and so far not much luck , chaincase leaking,idleing like crape, but it seems to pull okay, revs 8750 then rev limiter comes in is this to high. and its burning the bottum out of my headlight above the exhaust, heat shield is just to short and ends right up in the headlight ,just got it in time to biuld a better shield .then just had to hit a tree.

I bought 2 Z1 Jaguars Feb-07 for my wife & I. I got the chance to break it in this January putting 940 miles on it. My best friend bought an F6-07 also just getting it out this January. Except for the weight being much more than the F6 we kept up with each other. The big difference came at the end of the day when I had put almost half the amount of gas then my friend but also no oil. I Also did not smell like a 2 stroke. I did see a change at around 400-500 miles. The power got better & so did the gas mileage. The response of this sled on the lakes was just as good as my sabercat-600. The ride was more comfortable which left me at the end of a 200 mile ride feeling less fatigued. Give it some time I think it will grow on you. Then you will come out one morning & it will come up and rub on your leg just like a cat & start purring. Good Luck & Think Snow

I assume you mean between the throttle control lever and the housing. .060" is the spec. cat has used forever for the safety switch.

TOP SPEED WAS 93 LAST YEAR, 86 THIS YEAR. AFTER MY BEARINGS ARE REBUILT I WILL REPORT BACK. MY JAG WILL NEVER SEE 100MPH! IM GOING BACK TO 2 STROKE, CROSSFIRE 800 FOR THIS CAT MAN !!!

LACAT OUT

the z1 makes peak power at around 8500 rpm.
also watch the throttle cable as it can cause the runaway to kick in and make it run/idle like crap.
as far a performance goes remember this sled weighs like 580 dry, its no light weight and wont run like one...

I ran the lake today. Shift speed about 8500 rpms. Saw 90 on wet ice. Still not all that impressed with how it pulls. I have a friend who baught a left-over F8. I am looking forward to riding with him so we can trade off.
[/quote]

98 mph on the lake today...

yes the bump on the throttle lever and the housing ,same spec as always..

91 on ice road today...

It's OK Dad, I paid for it and I will run it however I see fit!!

I personally don't agree with the break in method, many people that race 4-strokes say that the way Cat says to break it in is wrong. I personally went in between the 2 extremes. I babied it for the first 100 miles, between 100-200 miles I would give it short bursts, after 200 miles I drove it like I stole it!!

Everybody has their own opinion on how to break in 2-strokes & 4-strokes. I never second guess anybody, they dished out the cash to buy it, so they should have the right to break it in the way they see fit!!

LUKE I'M NOT YOUR FATHER!!!!!!! lol sorry just questioning why you were not breakin it in, acorrding to cats specs.. Cats Pride feb 08 last page!!!!

This has been posted before, but I'll put it back up. Quite interesting.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Interesting stuff. Sorry to say but if I would make the 4-stroke jump and I would if I wasn't so cheap, I'd go with the Yamaha Apex. That's the only decent four stroke out there with the 130 Genesis in the Nytro.

Only decent 4-stroke?? Another guy who trashes the Z1 before he has rode one.

PS The Jag may not have the HP of the 2 you mentioned, but it's in a better chassis. That means more to me then the HP !

The Z1 has a chassis a million times better than any Yamaha.

It won the Iron Dog in its first year of production....thats a test and a half!

I'm talking abou the engine, not the sled. The Apex is a true 110mph sled. Not bad for a 4-stroke.
The apex and Nytro have excellent reviews all around. Their suspension ain't exactly junk.
However I wouldn't be surprised if the Z1 was better in that respect.
As long as you enjoy the ride, that's what matters.

I just find it sad to see manufacturers fail at getting close to Yamaha in the 4 stroke department.
It's hard to beat a sports bike engine when it comes to power to weight in the 4-stroke market (RX-1, Apex)

While yamaha makes a nice sled I really cannot see riding an engine without the sled attached. So really what is your point. Ride a Jag and get back to us. This sled does everything I ask it to do and more, power on top end is way over rated I have had this sled up to 100 and that was only 2 times just to see what it had. I doubt I will ever feel the need to do it again. Not many out of the box will leave this sled from 0-70 so I fail to see your point.

As some one who just came off of an apex, I would say the Z-1 engine-suspension package puts the apex to shame. Sure the apex goes straight fast, but most trails are not straight. The twin spar chassis blows yammie away. Just my 2 cents.

C

now there ya go...lol

I haven't driven a Z1 yet. I'm surprised to hear so much good about its suspension setup. Glad for you guys, must be a very nice sport touring type sled. I'm just bummed about the numbers.
It should hit over 100mph consistently. Heck I'm even more bummed about the average F1000 that comes out from factory. My friend has one and it takes everything for him to hit 100mph on hardpack or on the river with a little snow on top of the ice.

Mine will easily go to 100 and as I already stated, it will go to 80 with anything stock, I see no point in a faster sled for me but opinions are like ass-holes, everyone has one. This my first cat and I am vey very pleased with this sled, just not impressed with the service. I wouldn't turbo this sled if it was free, but if you did it would walk over most anything out there.

Your talking about putting a turbo in a Z1 or an Apex ?
I have a stock 02 Thundercat btw...113mph on hardpack (GPS), 121mph on ice, stock track with 172 studs down the middle. (GPS)
I love the suspension setup over anything I have driven. I did make many changes and put heavier torsion springs. Caddilac ride with excellent handling and impressive launch.

I've rode both apex and twin spar chassis, I will tell you that 150hp apex motor is wicked fast , especially on the big end, but these two sleds can't be compared the jag is missing 25+ hp . The jag chassis/suspension so much better, A good friend of mine has a apex [stock except for clutching] rode my jag for 10 miles , when we returned from our trip he purchased a 08 jag, saying that if cat puts more hp in the jag , his apex is down the road. On another note I bet yamaha discontinues the 150 hp bike motor, they have allready tweeked the 130 hp to 141 for next year, and will see a new chassis soon to come . As said in other post, wait you will see a turbo jag soon [170hp] . Yamaha started this 4stroke thing , everybody else is starting to close the gap .ie skidoo new 4tech motor , IMO I think alot of two strokers [not all] will shift to the new 4 strokes , I never thought I would have but sold 07 f1000== for a 08 jag...

YOU SHOULD TRY TWIN SPAR SLED, I think you'll change you mind fast!!!!!!!!!

The bike motor on the APEX is extremely expensive to manufacture, it's a marvel of an engine. It's basically a race engine from factory. I'm sure Yamaha makes more profit on sleds that have the Genesis series motor.

I will if I have a chance. I guess it's that much better than the rest ?

If I rode a jag and saw a 100 mph I would drive my f1000 into a tree and collect the insurance money.. you guys are so full of chit..lol

yamaha really doesn't have as much interest in sleds , I know a dealer in maine [silver star] grade who goes to the yamaha training facilaty in california , half of the guys there have never even seen their sleds . Yamaha sells more yzf450 motocross bikes than their entire snowmoblies sales combined. [fact] Could you imagine if they put more time and resouces into there sleds the product they would have....

find a tree , lol , sounds like your not too happy with that 165 hp 111mph f1000, I wasn't , my f1000 would run 109-112 mph on gps.[14'' hacksaw] my 121hp 08 jag runs 97-101mph on gps ,[w/1.25 cobra] heck my wifes 07 f6 would run 98-101mph [14'' hacksaw]

I think one thing that makes the F1000 slow is the super high stance. The long travel of the suspension. I bet if someone was to make it sit low on the ground it would get 7mph more top end.
That hacksaw track combined with the stiff suspension of the F1000 makes for one SLOW sled as far as drag racing is concerned. My friend is depressed about how bad his launch are.
I recommended a 1.25" predator track. I have the 1" predator on my T-cat and it takes off really well. I'll switch to 1.25" next year.

I have hit 101 on hard pack road, with my 08 jag, gps. I also have 08 f1000sp, witch i have only seen 104, so far. on trail.

the friggin sled with the cobra track is a real monster in certain conditions!! it can get away from ya real easy when it hooks.. top speed is dismal though.. knew that when I bought her and have nothing better to do then complain about it on the net!!!lol

cat knows they are slow and have come up with all sorts of excuses and ideas to try and cover their ass. . my bud had a jag last year and it was a real rocket,lol, and got buds that got buds that cross country race the f6's and have them figured out big time and they go 90!!

but whatever

104-105 is what the 1000's run stock, but don't go over to the f forum and talk that.. lol. some of those guys over there think they have stock 1000,s that do 120~~lol

I would think my jag will go about 90-95 being that it shows 100 on the speedo but that is a guess, fact is I could care less as I ride trails and that is what the sled is and nothing more, but it is the best trail sled I have been on period, I am not pleased with my dealer and the only reason I would ever buy another cat is the ride this thing has. I will never go back to 2 stroke and I will most likely not go to yamaha unless they get a trail sled that rides better. Next ones a two up for the wife and it will most likely be a twin spar. I guess the point here is, ride what you like and buy a sled for the reason you feel will give you the most enjoyment, knowing what you want out of a sled makes it easier, but no one sled can be everything to everybody, they will all be weak in some areas.