was stopped by a C O or DNR about the location of my trail permit. Well I was going about 25 mph and this guy was about 30 ft away. He got on the radio to another to pull me over. I have my trail permit directly below my head lights on the hood vents (Firecat). The air induction hood scoop hides it a little bit, but from quit a few feet away it can be seen. This A hole wanted to give me a ticket because he couldnt see it when I was going by at 25 in snow dust because I was behind a few sled. The back of the sticker says to have in the center of the snowmobile directly above or below the head light. Now I use 2 different windshields so I cant put it above the headlight. This guy was yelling at me at the top of his lungs and was getting Irate and he tried to peel my sticker off of my sled (WTF) He said "YOU WILL be stopped every time" I said I dont care. I wanted to say good because that is what you get paid to do . I checked the DNR website and It doesnt say sticker must be in sight from 30 feet or any feet it just has the location for it. Ive gotten stopped before and they all said that my sticker position is fine after they see that it is on the sled. CAN THIS A HOLE GIVE ME A TICKET?Display of Trail Permit Sticker:

The trail permit sticker needs to be permanently affixed to the forward half of the snowmobile directly above or below the headlight
^^^^ THIS IS RIGHT FROM THE DNR WEBSITE^^^^^

power hungry fuckheads, 99.9% of them anyways.

Are you aware of a HCS member who's screen name is 'Law Dog'? He is in law enforcement around the Newberry Mi area and is highly respected for both his views on many subjects on this forum and the way he handles encounters with riders on the trails. You may want to use some discression when coming up with a title for a post topic in the future.

Now back to your post. If this DNR officer gave you such a hard time and you were completely legal, why didn't you get his name and file a complaint? That would of done more good then venting on this forum IMO.

I dont think the title of his thread was aimed at Lawdog, I think he just REALLY wanted to get his attention so he could get some feedback from Lawdog. I could be very wrong, I at first though he was taking a jab, but after reading the post I dont think that was his intention.

Steve

Thanks I didnt know of the respected HCS Law dog. This post is not Directed to that indivdual person, thats just what we call law enforcement around here. This is directly directed to the individual that was very unprofessional. Sorry for any misguided comments

It was clear it wasn't aimed at Law Dog as he is NOT a DNR officer.

Im 16 and have been riding in Michigan for several years now and I learned that when the Officers stop you, you agree wit hwhat the ysay with a calm voice. It all comes down to who's got the most power, and I dont think the President is a member on hcs.....

No problem here.

i edited it for ya:)


i hope its ok??

Could you post the location you were riding?

I work for the county next to *lawdog, I wouldnt have issued you a citation for it. If it was "directly above or below the headlight" on the machine, as stated, it is legal. If it is not visible, we stop the machine and have a look to make sure that the machine does indeed have a sticker on it, advise that I was unable to see it, and wish them a safe ride. We do warn though that we arent the only ones out patrolling on the trails, and that they may get stopped again just to get checked if it is in a "blind spot" on the machine. Hope this helps!

Show a picture where you got it mounted. By reading your earlier post thats at least the second time you been stopped for it. If its right underneath the light seems eveyone would be getting stopped. Thats where I had mine stuck. Wheres it mounted inside the vent

Were you in Kalkaska they are famous for that.

Below the headlight on a Firecat is in a blind spot, IMO you will be and should expect to be stopped often. I have mine above the headlight on the windshield, if I did change out the windshield it would be a problem but I don't because it works find as is.

What I would like to know is why the hell do you care if the sticker is on the sled or not. What skin is it off your ass or any other LEO? The whole trail permit fiasco was a coopertive of the MSA and DNR. It was a revenue generator and the whole Michigan snowmobile population was the victims. If I was a LEO on snowmobile patrol I wouod ignore the permits 100% of the time. It is a scam and no one should be ticketed for an illegal permit law.
If I had the time and recources, I would start class action law suit against the DNR and MSA to get the permits out of here. Not only did they scam us on the $10 price that would never go up, there has been no visable improvement in snowmobiling Michigan since before they became a illegal requirement.

I put mine in a different orientation so I can change windshields if I want, I cruise by the LEO's, they wave, I wave, all is good

Alleycat35,

I care about the permit law as well as the Snowmobile Associations do, as the money that does come in at least some of it is filtering down so they can groom the trails and buy equipment to groom the trails....

On top of that LEO's are sworn to uphold the law, which means that even if we dont agree with a Law Personally we still have to enforce it.

HERES HOW THE LAW READS:

(1) In addition to registration of a snowmobile pursuant to section 82105 or registration in another state or province, except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who desires to operate a snowmobile in this state shall purchase a Michigan snowmobile trail permit sticker. The Michigan snowmobile trail permit issued under this section shall be valid for a period of 1 year which begins on October 1 and ends on the following September 30. The fee for the permit shall be $25.00.

Now the only way your going to change that law is by contacting and convincing the legislators below and possibly hiring attorneys and proving that the law is unconstitutional....

I think you have posted many times that you DONT buy trail permits and wont put them on a sled because you dont ride the trails... If thats true, then how do you know there have not been any improvements ? I know up here there has been.. We finally have 3 newer machines that can run without breaking down 3-4 times a week.... Hence there out there more often... and Im seeing good posts on this site and others thanking groomers from all over for great trails.....


I think you have a great idea... I know you dont ride with a trail permit and have never been stopped or ticketed so it obviously works for you........

I have taken the time to copy and paste all of the state legislators so you can start running with your idea... Also Ive printed some class action attorneys contact info, so you can get started... The good thing about class action law suits is that you dont need any money The attorney's will take a portion of the claim when you win... Good Luck ..... Hope this helps...


001 Gaffney Edward R S 0585 HOB 517-373-0154 edwardgaffney@house.mi.gov
002 Lemmons Jr. LaMar D S 0586 HOB 517-373-0106 lamarlemmonsjr@house.mi.gov
003 Scott Bettie Cook D S 0587 HOB 517-373-1776 bettiecookscott@house.mi.gov
004 Young II Coleman D S 0588 HOB 517-373-1008 colemanayoungii@house.mi.gov
005 Johnson Bert D S 0589 HOB 517-373-0144 bertjohnson@house.mi.gov
006 Cheeks Marsha D S 0685 HOB 517-373-0844 marshacheeks@house.mi.gov
007 Smith Virgil D S 0686 HOB 517-373-0589 virgilsmith@house.mi.gov
008 Cushingberry Jr. George D S 0687 HOB 517-373-2276 georgecushingberry@house.mi.gov
009 Jackson Shanelle D S 0688 HOB 517-373-1705 shanellejackson@house.mi.gov
010 Leland Gabe D S 0689 HOB 517-373-6990 gabeleland@house.mi.gov
011 Hood III Morris D N 0690 HOB 517-373-3815 morrishood3rd@house.mi.gov
012 Tobocman Steve D 155 CB 517-373-0823 stevetobocman@house.mi.gov
013 Farrah Barbara D N 0692 HOB 517-373-0845 barbarafarrah@house.mi.gov
014 Clemente Ed D N 0693 HOB 517-373-0140 edclemente@house.mi.gov
015 Polidori Gino D N 0694 HOB 517-373-0847 ginopolidori@house.mi.gov
016 Constan Bob D N 0695 HOB 517-373-0849 bobconstan@house.mi.gov
017 Dillon Andy D 166 CB 517-373-0857 andydillon@house.mi.gov
018 LeBlanc Richard D N 0697 HOB 517-373-2576 richardleblanc@house.mi.gov
019 Pastor John R N 0698 HOB 517-373-3920 johnpastor@house.mi.gov
020 Corriveau Marc D N 0699 HOB 517-373-3816 marccorriveau@house.mi.gov
021 LaJoy Philip R S 0785 HOB 517-373-2575 phillajoy@house.mi.gov
022 Hopgood Hoon-Yung D S 0786 HOB 517-373-0852 hoon-yunghopgood@house.mi.gov
023 Law Kathleen D S 0787 HOB 517-373-0855 kathleenlaw@house.mi.gov
024 Brandenburg Jack R S 0788 HOB 517-373-0113 jackbrandenburg@house.mi.gov
025 Bieda Steve D S 0789 HOB 517-373-1772 stevebieda@house.mi.gov
026 Donigan Marie D N 0790 HOB 517-373-3818 mariedonigan@house.mi.gov
027 Meisner Andy D N 0791 HOB 517-373-0478 andymeisner@house.mi.gov
028 Wojno Lisa D N 0792 HOB 517-373-2275 lisawojno@house.mi.gov
029 Melton Tim D N 0793 HOB 517-373-0475 timmelton@house.mi.gov
030 Rocca Tory R N 0794 HOB 517-373-7768 toryrocca@house.mi.gov
031 Miller Fred D N 0795 HOB 517-373-0159 fredmiller@house.mi.gov
032 Acciavatti Daniel R N 0796 HOB 517-373-8931 danielacciavatti@house.mi.gov
033 Meltzer Kim R N 0797 HOB 517-373-0820 kimmeltzer@house.mi.gov
034 Clack Brenda D N 0798 HOB 517-373-8808 brendaclack@house.mi.gov
035 Condino Paul D N 0799 HOB 517-373-1788 paulcondino@house.mi.gov
036 Palmer Brian R S 0885 HOB 517-373-0843 repbrianpalmer@house.mi.gov
037 Vagnozzi Aldo D S 0886 HOB 517-373-1793 aldovagnozzi@house.mi.gov
038 DeRoche Craig R 167 CB 517-373-0827 craigderoche@house.mi.gov
039 Law David R S 0888 HOB 517-373-1799 davidlaw@house.mi.gov
040 Moss Chuck R S 0889 HOB 517-373-8670 chuckmoss@house.mi.gov
041 Knollenberg Marty R N 0890 HOB 517-373-1783 martyknollenberg@house.mi.gov
042 Accavitti Jr. Frank D N 0891 HOB 517-373-0854 frankaccavitti@house.mi.gov
043 Amos Fran R N 0892 HOB 517-373-0615 franamos@house.mi.gov
044 Stakoe John R N 0893 HOB 517-373-2616 johnstakoe@house.mi.gov
045 Garfield John R N 0894 HOB 517-373-1773 johngarfield@house.mi.gov
046 Marleau Jim R N 0895 HOB 517-373-1798 jimmarleau@house.mi.gov
047 Hune Joe R N 0896 HOB 517-373-8835 joehune@house.mi.gov
048 Hammel Richard D N 0897 HOB 517-373-7557 richardhammel@house.mi.gov
049 Gonzales Lee D N 0898 HOB 517-373-7515 leegonzales@house.mi.gov
050 Hammon Ted D N 0899 HOB 517-373-3906 tedhammon@house.mi.gov
051 Robertson David R S 0985 HOB 517-373-1780 davidrobertson@house.mi.gov
052 Byrnes Pam D S 0986 HOB 517-373-0828 pambyrnes@house.mi.gov
053 Warren Rebekah D S 0987 HOB 517-373-2577 rebekahwarren@house.mi.gov
054 Smith Alma D S 0988 HOB 517-373-1771 almasmith@house.mi.gov
055 Angerer Kathy D S 0989 HOB 517-373-1792 kathyangerer@house.mi.gov
056 Ebli Kate D N 0990 HOB 517-373-2617 KateEbli@house.mi.gov
057 Spade Dudley D N 0991 HOB 517-373-1706 dspade@house.mi.gov
058 Caswell Bruce R N 0992 HOB 517-373-1794 brucecaswell@house.mi.gov
059 Shaffer Rick R N 0993 HOB 517-373-0832 rickshaffer@house.mi.gov
060 Jones Robert D N 0994 HOB 517-373-1785 robertjones@house.mi.gov
061 Hoogendyk Jacob R N 0995 HOB 517-373-1774 jackhoogendyk@house.mi.gov
062 Nofs Mike R N 0996 HOB 517-373-0555 mikenofs@house.mi.gov
063 Wenke Lorence R N 0997 HOB 517-373-1787 lorencewenke@house.mi.gov
064 Griffin Martin D N 0998 HOB 517-373-1795 martingriffin@house.mi.gov
065 Simpson Mike D N 0999 HOB 517-373-1775 mikesimpson@house.mi.gov
066 Ward Chris R 374 CB 517-373-1784 chrisward@house.mi.gov
067 Byrum Barb D S 1086 HOB 517-373-0587 barbbyrum@house.mi.gov
068 Bauer Joan D S 1087 HOB 517-373-0826 joanbauer@house.mi.gov
069 Meadows Mark D S 1088 HOB 517-373-1786 markmeadows@house.mi.gov
070 Emmons Judy R S 1089 HOB 517-373-0834 judyemmons@house.mi.gov
071 Jones Rick R N 1090 HOB 517-373-0853 rickjones@house.mi.gov
072 Steil Jr. Glenn R N 1091 HOB 517-373-0840 glennsteil@house.mi.gov
073 Pearce Tom R N 1092 HOB 517-373-0218 tompearce@house.mi.gov
074 Agema David R N 1093 HOB 517-373-8900 daveagema@house.mi.gov
075 Dean Robert D N 1094 HOB 517-373-2668 robertdean@house.mi.gov
076 Sak Michael D 251 CB 517-373-0822 speakerprotemsak@house.mi.gov
077 Green Kevin R N 1096 HOB 517-373-2277 kevingreen@house.mi.gov
078 Nitz Neal R N 1097 HOB 517-373-1796 nealnitz@house.mi.gov
079 Proos John R N 1098 HOB 517-373-1403 johnproos@house.mi.gov
080 Schuitmaker Tonya R N 1099 HOB 517-373-0839 tonyaschuitmaker@house.mi.gov
081 Pavlov Phil R S 1185 HOB 517-373-1790 phillippavlov@house.mi.gov
082 Stahl John R S 1186 HOB 517-373-1800 johnstahl@house.mi.gov
083 Espinoza John D S 1187 HOB 517-373-0835 johnespinoza@house.mi.gov
084 Brown Terry D S 1188 HOB 517-373-0476 terrybrown@house.mi.gov
085 Ball Richard R S 1189 HOB 517-373-0841 richardball@house.mi.gov
086 Hildenbrand Dave R 141 CB 517-373-0846 rephildenbrand@house.mi.gov
087 Calley Brian R N 1191 HOB 517-373-0842 briancalley@house.mi.gov
088 Sheen Fulton R N 1192, HOB 517-373-0836 fultonsheen@house.mi.gov
089 Meekhof Arlan R N 1193 HOB 517-373-0838 arlanbmeekhof@house.mi.gov
090 Huizenga Bill R N 1194 HOB 517-373-0830 billhuizenga@house.mi.gov
091 Valentine Mary D N 1195 HOB 517-373-3436 maryvalentine@house.mi.gov
092 Bennett Doug D N 1196 HOB 517-373-2646 dougbennett@house.mi.gov
093 Opsommer Paul R N 1197 HOB 517-373-1778 paulopsommer@house.mi.gov
094 Horn Kenneth R N 1198 HOB 517-373-0837 kennethhorn@house.mi.gov
095 Coulouris Andy D N 1199 HOB 517-373-0152 andycoulouris@house.mi.gov
096 Mayes Jeff D S 1285 HOB 517-373-0158 jeffmayes@house.mi.gov
097 Moore Tim R S 1286 HOB 517-373-8962 timmoore@house.mi.gov
098 Moolenaar John R S 1287 HOB 517-373-1791 johnmoolenaar@house.mi.gov
099 Caul Bill R S 1288 HOB 517-373-1789 billcaul@house.mi.gov
100 Hansen Goeff R S 1289 HOB 517-373-7317 goeffhansen@house.mi.gov
101 Palsrok David R S 1385 HOB 517-373-0825 davidpalsrok@house.mi.gov
102 Booher Darwin R S 1386 HOB 517-373-1747 darwinbooher@house.mi.gov
103 Sheltrown Joel D S 1387 HOB 517-373-3817 joelsheltrown@house.mi.gov
104 Walker Howard R S 1388 HOB 517-373-1766 howardwalker@house.mi.gov
105 Elsenheimer Kevin R S 1389 HOB 517-373-0829 kevinelsenheimer@house.mi.gov
106 Gillard Matthew D S 1485 HOB 517-373-0833 matthewgillard@house.mi.gov
107 McDowell Gary D S 1486 HOB 517-373-2629 garymcdowell@house.mi.gov
108 Casperson Tom R S 1487 HOB 517-373-0156 tomcasperson@house.mi.gov
109 Lindberg Steven D S 1488 HOB 517-373-0498 stevenlindberg@house.mi.gov
110 Lahti Michael D S 1489 HOB 517-373-0850 mikelahti@house.mi.gov


MICHIGAN CLASS ACTION ATTORNEY's : Web Site for Michigan

http://attorneypages.com/state-MI.htm

First of all, I'd like to thank *Lawdog for the rebuttle.

As stated by *Lawdog - we are sworn to enforce the laws of the state of michigan - regardless of if we agree with them or not. Personally, I think that the Trail Sticker system is perfect just as it is. The revenue that is generated pays for maintaining trails for people to ride on, assists in purchases of equipment to KEEP THESE TRAILS in good shape, and helps pay the hard workers for their assistance during the course of the year.

Seems that all the people that I have come across snowmobiling this year have had absolutly NO PROBLEM purchasing a permit to ride on the trails provided. Now, if you opt to not buy one, that's your decision. But remember, if you get caught without it and you walk away with a piece of paper that will wind up costing 2-3 times more than the initial investment of the trail sticker, you have no one to blame. You dont need one to go to and from your ice shanty or ride on your own property. Why not look at Ontario and how much they pay for their trail permits... I wouldnt be complaining about $25 if I had to pay what they pay. Just remember, IT IS A LAW to have the trail sticker affixed to your snowmobile, directly above or below the headlight.

Perhaps you could also put in your class action lawsuit that we shouldn't be required to have a registration for our cars and trucks to operate on our highways in Michigan... Just a thought for you...