Went out for the first ride on the sled with some friends last nite and what is it with people with four wheelers that have to go and ruin the trails this time of year,
i dont know but the trails need to be for snowmobiles only for this time of year some people dont have any respect for the snomobiler's ,we pay more than our share of registration fees ,more than an atv'r does so there should be a date that they cant ride the trails so we can enjoy what little time on the trails that we have.

I AGREE

agree 2

Gotta catch them in the act and give them the riot act.

I had sleds (already!! On the first day of the season!!) totally ignore the stay on trail signs and ride all over the place on freshly seeded in fields that we were supposed to have people run only in the marked trails....people just do not give a shit, it's all about them.

I AGREE AT THIS TIME OF THE YEAR ATVS DO MAKE A MESS OF THE TRAILS. HOWEVER THEY ARE NOT A PROBLEM ONCE THE TRAILS ARE PACKED AND SOLID. I MYSELF BEING AN ATV OWNER HAVE HAD A BLAST RIDING ON THE TRAILS WHEN THEY ARE FROZEN SOLID. WHEN THEY ARE POWDER SNOW LIKE THIS ITS JUST ABOUT USELESS ANYWAYS SO THEY MIGHT AS WELL JUST WAIT AWHILE. I BELEIEVE I READ A POST ON THIS SITE SAYING THAT SOME OF THE PLACES LIKE PITTSBURG THAT HAD TRAILS OPEN TO ATVS HAVE CLOSED THOSE TRAILS DOWN TO THEM THIS YEAR. IVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED TRAILS THAT WERE SO BADLY BEAT UP FROM ATVS THAT IT HAS EVER BOTHERED ME, BUT THEN AGAIN THATS JUST ME. I KNOW WHERE I LIVE SOME OF THE TRAILS ARE ONLY OPEN TO ATVS WHEN THERE IS SNOW COVER BECAUSE OF BURIED POWER LINES. I WOULD HATE TO SEE EVEN MORE TRAILS CLOSED DOWN WHEELED VEHICLES.

Have you ever seen what the ATV ruts are like after some rain and freezing? Horible for sleds and everything else too. I think there are very few snomo trails that allow ATV's anyway. In the powder they go about 3 MPH and are all over the trail.

I saw three idiots out on them today while riding in Rindge, hate it.

I think ATV's should be banned from the trails once there is snow on them.
I have no problem with the guys who know to stay off them unless they're froze and hard.
It's the idiots who have no respect and ride when they're soft who ruin it. I remember spending 5 hours grooming a few years back and getting in about midnight just to have some idiot come thru about 2 am before it was set up and trench the whole trail I had just groomed.
I Don't care if they pay for registrations or not. They get 10 months a year to ride and we get two if we're lucky. Last year we only got 5 weeks of good riding. I do remember last year after a good 16" snowfall my wife and I broke trail for 15 miles and then hit the rail bed in Newport and someone had gone thru on a wheeler and destroyed the trail all the way to Claremont and just had to fishtail all over the trail insted of staying in one path. It's hard enough to ride in wheeler ruts, Never mind when they are all over the place. If I had met up with whoever it was I would have taken the keys and thrown em in the woods somewhere. I have no tolerance for idiots.
"I think we should all petition the state to ban wheelers when there is snow cover on the trails!"
Sorry that I have a bad attitude about this but have had too many problems with this issue over the years.

Bruce

i would give up riding my atv in the winter in a heartbeat if the sno trails would open to atv's in the summer.

I don't know about your area but around here there are class 6 roads everywhere to ride on. These are what most of our sled trails consist of.

Like I said, I have no problem with the people who use their heads when it comes to riding on the sled trails. I even wave and say hi when I see atv's out when it's froze and hard.

Lt just got home and I saw wheelers out on the trails also the groomer had crossed in Claremont by Q106 heading towards charlestown.

ATV riders = Homos

with an avatar like yours i would'nt talk about homo's. homo..

Yeah its sad, but in NH virtually all the Sno-mo trails allow 4 wheelers during the winter. The reason is simple, the wheelers buy registrations and would have almost nowhere to ride. So..., as winters got warmer, and their numbers grew, the state gave in and let them on the sno-mo trails. Lets face it, every year their are more wheelers.
As time goes on and the wheelers out number sled's (they may already!?), we may see them slowly develope their own statewide trail network, seperate from sleds. This has happened in Quebec, and every year up there, we see more ATV trails. And these are seperate from sleds. Hopefully NH can do the same thing.

I would strongly disagree with that statement.......Unless the trail is marked with a green diamond stating the trail is open to ATV use than the trail is closed to ATV use The argument that ATV's are registered and thus have access is bogus. As far as the state is concerned they have NO SAY in the use of the majority of the trails as the trails are on PRIVATE PROPERTY The two biggest Issues landowners have is sled noise(cans)and 4 Wheelers. We are in serious risk of losing the New trail from Barnstead to Loudon because 4 Wheelers cant read the HUGE AND NUMEROUS signs to keep out.We have Had to reroute trails in the area due to 4 wheelers tearing up the property.AGAIN IF THRE IS NOT A SIGN POSTING THE TRAIL OPEN TO WHEELERS THAN THE TRAIL IS CLOSED TO WHEELERS!!!!!!!!

X2

I saw a bunch of ATV's today on a trail where they weren't suppose to be. I stopped where they were and gave them a polite heads up that they would possibly be ticketed if they were found there by F&G. I was told by them that they would ride where they wanted, when they wanted. Piss poor attitude. It's sad really.
Thats the attitude that gets trails closed. I'm the President of a snowmobile club in the Exeter area and I can tell you that ATV's aren't wanted around these parts by any of the landowners we deal with. Yet they constantly tear up our club trails.

just got back from riding and what did i see more atv's had been thru and rutted up the trail ,we pay 78 dollars to register if your not a member of a club and we only get 2 months to ride if lucky, they pay 54 dollars and seem to think they can ride all year , atv's on the trail are a safety hazard getting stuck in there tire ruts send u all over the trail. So they

just got back from riding and what did i see more atv's had been thru and rutted up the trail ,we pay 78 dollars to register if your not a member of a club and we only get 2 months to ride if lucky, they pay 54 dollars and seem to think they can ride all year , atv's on the trail are a safety hazard getting stuck in there tire ruts send u all over the trail. So THEY NEED TO STAY OFF THE TRAILS and let us have some fun they got 10 months to ride i think they should be courteous to us for our ride time is short.
this is the reason i dont like riding claremont trails they should have signs up closed to 4 wheelers and enforce it.

Maybe when we see an Atv on closed trials we Just start doing that what do the cops call it? It sends them into spin an off the trial! I know sleds are much faster and could do it! Thats a post to the guys that say F off when told the are on closed trails!
Something for both sides to ponder? Ruin our trails we are gonna get yea!

#1 I will start out with some facts about atving in NH, so everyone can get it straight instead of thinking they know! Snowmobiles have a short season, yes, but, they can virtually ride anywhere in the winter with snowcover. 4 wheelers and trail bikes, now have in the state of nh probably 4-5 places to ride(that aren't just a straight line) with more than 20 miles of trails, probably 4-5 trail systems have been closed in the past few years, an new ones have not been allowed to open due to a "typo" in the course an fine filter for creating new trail systems. the filter was originally written as I believe, for bear brook state park when atv trails were very close to being year round there, it stated that a trail could not be within 400 ft. of a well head, an be used as an atv trail. But, conveniently there was a "typo" and an extra 0 added in there to make it 4000ft. Which we all know is close to a mile! So now, for the past 5 or so years, NO new trails have been able to be created because of this problem of not being able to have an atv trail within a little less than a mile of a well head. An the news is even worse for people who ride a "non-street legal" dirtbike. They have about half as many places that they are aloud to ride. So, if you guys see this "attitude" out there by atvers, that's pretty much why, we have no place to really ride legally, an ALOT of people are fed up, an they just don't care anymore. Sadly though, they see sledders as enemies or something probably cuz they have a warped view of looking at it, though not many snowmobilers help out with atv trails, but many atvers help out with snowmobile trails in hopes of possible access but yet get denied, with no hope of pursuasion.

I've pretty much said this to get you guys on here to see the frustration of us that ride in the summer months, an what we are going through, an how we are painted as "bad" cuz we ride where we're not supposed to be, which is pretty much EVERYWHERE now. I myself ride an enduro bike which is street legal, which allows me to access class 6 roads an ride "legally" but alot of my friends have quads an such, an when I ride with them which is most of the time, our choices are limited to the same 150 miles of trails over 4-5 different areas, ALL the time. Imagine if it was that way for sledders. imagine if ALL the sledders we're only allowed to ride in the winter, in pittsburg, madness it would be!!! That's the way it is for us.

I'm a snowmobiler at heart, I've always been one, an I miss not having a sled since last year, I will get back into it, when my finances allow me to, but don't think that every atver is out there to "screw" sledders, they have this attitude of riding wherever because this state has screwed us, an taken all our registration dollars, an given us nothing in return! Also I will say, that some people you meet out there are just a-holes an they don't care no matter what. The atvers I'm refering to are the somewhat responsible ones that have tried to ride legally, but are now just fed up.

Also, there are not THAT many places that are open to atver's in the winter, which is pretty much only state run areas, such as bear brook state park, clough state park, a certain few of the rail trails, an some others, that's really it, there's not many, an it's not a free for all, it's guys that just don't care anymore riding in there hometown most likely. LIke I said, I'm a snowmobiler at heart, but I love riding my enduro bike as well. I thought that since I bought a bike that I would get in WAY more riding than snowmobiling considering the long riding season, but in a decent winter with average snow, I would get in more riding than I do all summer with my bike, it's pretty sad!!

As soon as you said "claremont" trails, I knew what you were talking about. An I will tell you one thing, an it's not to be rude, but, claremont is run by the sullivan county atv club, an maintains ALL the trails, that is why 4 wheelers ride there, an it's one of the ONLY trails systems in the state that is on private land and allows atv use in the winter. it is also one of the 4-5 places we have to ride in the summer , legally anyway, an I have to be the bearer of bad news but, your just riding in the wrong area if you don't like atvs on the same trails. pretty much ANYWHERE else in the state, an you would be ALOT better off! Lyme, baker river, plymouth, rumney, canaan, lebanon, all those places, it would be VERY rare for you to ever see an atv on the snowmobile trail in the winter. as I said, the atvers an trail bikers pay 54 dollars to ride pretty much mostly in claremont as it's the biggest riding area in the state for them, that's why they're there!

Let me say one other thing as well, I think if atvers an snowmobiler actually tried working together, I think it would solve alot of the problems in this post, but it seems that won't happen until hell freezes over, it's pretty sad.

thanks manchvegas you explain it a lot better than i

Manch, you've covered a lot of good points on the situation. Which ATV club covers the BB/Paw areas? I know in some areas in the state (NDATV, MVTR for example) they are quite active in areas they ride but I don't see any presence in these areas.

Manch !!! You have many good point's there I am not Bicthing about ATV"S being in the state parks where they are allowed! It is the off areas and they say go screw!

it is pretty sad that snowmobilers and atvrs dont get along i used to ride an atv myself so im not just biased against atv's i got out of it cause you couldnt ride it anywhere without see not atv signs. i usually dont ride in claremont but in past years there wasnt a problem with this . it just gets a little old when you try to ride localy and you have to dodge tire ruts. but when i had my atv i didnt ride the trails in the winter . so dont get me wrong the shoe has been on the other foot for me too.

When "HELL FREEZES OVER"We will ban 4wheelers from riding there to. j/k I would love to work with atvers where I am But it comes down to the same problem The guys who own the trails do not want ATV's on their property.

The bearbrook an pawtuckaway I think are run by the sno-dogs, an paw, I have no idea who does that, maybe the northwood crank pullers? But, there is no direct tie in to an atv club, as atv's have NO legal access into these areas during the summer months. atvs are only allowed in those areas in the winter when it is open to snowmobiles. As far as the claremont trails go, like I said, that's atv heaven up there, probably the last big legal area in the state for atvers. I understand your frustration though, I used to hate seeing atvs on the trail before I actually had a trail bike, an only a sled. But, then I realized, I have 6 thousand miles of trails to ride. An, I guarentee the really really GOOD places to ride a sled, you won't find an atv. it's pretty much just claremont, BB, paw, an a few others, anywhere else an it's probably just a local gettin his jollies out from being stuck inside.

Like I said, I figured I'd just shed some light on the subject for people, cuz the things I said are the things that don't get told to the general public, so people just see it as a "bad attitude" an form there own opinions without knowing how the state screws us more an more an more each year. All I know is I wish I had the money to have another sled right now, cuz it's driving me nuts with 2 dirtbikes in the garage, an no sled!

The Snowslickers take care of the both systems, but my question is what are local ATV clubs doing to help in these areas? The snowmobile clubs have as limited access to these areas as ATV's and yet no presence. How about something as simple as signage? Last year there was a situation with ATV's going north of BB to get gas/food being ticketed. Has the local ATV club attempted to get landowner permission? Maybe signage that ATV'rs will respond to? It's frustrating on both sides. We were attempting to open new trail and were shot down because the landowner felt that as soon as there was a trail, there would be ATV's. So no trail.

Hey,
This is a snowmobile forum, not an I had a snowmobile forum.

Manch,
You should of came up to Whale Back a couple of weeks ago for the SnoX good time up there.

That's what I thought too about ATV use, only when signs say it's OK.
I tried to set up a poll on here, but had trouble and couldn't, to see what the readers think about ATV use in winter. I think there are specific places for ATV's all around the state.

Please if anyone could, set up a poll and see what the public thinks.

And so, the solution to the problem is what?
Obviously the "No wheeled vehicles" signs ar'nt stopping them, and Fish and Game obviously doesnt care, or they would be issueing steep fines, impounding quads, etc.. In fact Ive seen Fish cops on 4 wheelers on sled trails in Barnstead during hunting season!!

The only long range fix is for them to have their own trail system, seperate from sleds. But until NHF&G forces them off our trails, I think were stuck with them.

Hey on a Happier note, with all this new deep Snow, it should be sleds only for a while!!

what would it hurt if the atv's used the park trails in the summer? then places like bearbrook and pawtuckaway would have plenty of help with the trails. i would like to see the sleds only have use of 600 miles of trails for a couple of weeks then you would know where we are coming from.

Don't you now have many designated ATV trails all over the state? Maybe not enough, but you shouldn't be ruining sled trails when it's ieagal.

4 wheelers have three other seasons they can ride. Sleds have one- at best. Snowmobilers travel to where the snow is in the winter so why cant 4 wheelers travel to where they trails are in the summer?

Out of curiousity have you ever gone out in those parks in the summer time? The place is full of hikers, bikers, campers, and horse back riders. I haven't seen the report on ATV's in BB, but I can tell you in Pawtuckaway it would be like climbing Mt Everest trying to get ATV use in there. Something does need to open up locally though, but I don't know if adding them to BB is a good idea. I assume because it hasn't happened yet in BB it's dead? Bringing in a high profile use into a state park like that it's going to be tough, and be a constant issue.

Remember, the last 2 years a small percentage of that 6000 miles was really ridable. To ride you really needed to drive I didn't ride one mile last year, and I know many who didn't. My kids are getting older so the Rock trail and the yard aren't going to cut it anymore for the ATV's. Hope to check out Jericho and Success this summer with them.

I think I am starting to see where you are coming from.The reason the snowmobile trails are so vast, Is due to the clubs out there biulding and maintaning trails on PRIVATE PROPERTY, If you want a place to ride your 4 wheeler than start a club, knock on landowners doors obtain permission and build your own trails I will gladly stay off them.

If I saw F&G on a trail with a 4 wheeler in Barnstead, My first question would be who gve him permission to be there...Just courious where in town did you see them?

Great points.

Amen brother. Thats the whole story. And we could use some legal help(F&G) to force them off our Sled trails which would motivate the wheelers to form their own trail system.

carry a cell phone with you and when you see one on the trail stop and immediately report them. in our state wheelers are NOT allowed on ANY trail public or private that is being reimbursed for grooming by the state. besides loud sled and off trail riding fucking 4 wheelers are one of the main reasons for trail closures and i for one have had enuf, be forwarned IF i see you on a trail i will call fish and game and try and get any other info off your wheeler i can to identify you. yes i realize this is NH but we have the same problem in Maine.

My friend Beagle came upon 2 quads riding dedicated sled trails in a state forest...he asked how the riding was, and they were all smiles. My friend said: "Well, thats good, I was up all night last night grooming them for SNOWMOBILES!"...he gave them a talking to...lol...

Don't take me wrong on this! I am allfore the atv's haveing there areas, i just don't think groomed trails are the place for them!

Alright, there are too many people to quote here so, I'll make a few facts known once again.

1st of all to the people coming into the discussion swearing an just spouting off about NO trail is open to atv's in the winter that receives money from the state for grooming, why don't you read the entire thread, an do your research before you spout off things that are 100% not true. bearbrook, paw, rail trails, claremont, troy, etc..... ALL have LEGAL access in the winter even though they recieve funding for grooming, so get it right people or just don't say anything!

alright, now that that's out of the way, back to the civilized discussion! Yes, I see your points about atv clubs workin with areas such as BB to help with signs an such an stuff like that to help with winter use. But, on the other hand, NHATV has bent over backwards in doing things in bear brook an other places just to have a one day CHARITY event, having to provide maintenance before, and grade trails after the charity ride just to be able to have a charity event ride! So, yes atv clubs have done alot of work, but there is still a big gap between snowmobilers an atvers, an they don't communicate well, some do, cuz they ride both, but there are alot of people that do one or the other, so those that do ride one or the other don't know the work that is put forth on either side, but it is there.

As far as I'm concerned an I think I can speak for the MANY other atvers an trailbikers out there, I can say that most if not all of us would give up a few months of riding to have a interconnecting trail system the other 2 seasons of the year. (I say 2 seasons because spring is closed due to mud season)

Again I will bring up for the people that like to jump in at the end of a thread without reading the whole thing, the course an fine filter along with BOT an the various other state organizations have done nothing to help the situation.

An I'll let you all in on a little secret that probably not many of you know, for a while there the new "atv park" in berlin was in jeopardy to even happen because of that course an fine filter, even though the land was bought with state money, 7500 acres of land, an they were gonna be able to put something like 40 miles of trails, because of the "typo" in the course an fine filter. So rumor is that.... BOT has made an agreement with NHOHVA (NH off highway vehicle association (kinda like NHSA for sleds) ) that they will wave the course an fine filter in the case of berlin if we stop pushing for trails in bear brook an trails in southern NH. Seems like when the state wants to open new trails, they can just "wave" the course an fine filter, but yet private clubs, that TRY to form an TRY to develop (because believe me, there are alot that TRY, an can't because of this problem, it's not as easy as people on here think to do, it's not as simple as just starting a club an building trails, cuz, it has been tried, an tried, an tried, an tried, etc.....) trails don't get to wave that stupid thing, an get NOWHERE!

Finally, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we do not have a trails system that we can ride 3 seasons (like I said, really 2) out of the year. The state website still has listed that there are over 750 miles of atv trails in this state, which is a LIE!!! I kinda researched it a little bit by reading the "state atv plan" which can be found here
http://www.nhtrails.org/Trailspages/ATVpag...lSystemPlan.pdf
an I compared the # of miles of trails vs. the clubs that I KNOW of that had closed, an I came up with HALF of what they had listed, roughly 350 miles or so have been lost in the past 5-7 years. an just by the title of the atv plan, it says plan 04-08 to develop a statewide trail system, HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a joke, I'm sure the state paid the engineering company LOTS of money to develop that plan, yet nothing other than the purchase of that blunder up in berlin has been done!

as far as you go shawno, I'll borrow one of your sleds an go riding with you anytime, haha! Next year, i'll be back in it!

Why hasent the NHOHVA and NHATV lobbied to fix this typo???

NHOHVA has been. Its hard to pass something, but it's just as hard to change something. ATV Watch is always watching and lobbying against it.

yes, pekabu is right, but it's easier to get something passed, than to get something that's already passed, changed. I personally beleive it wasn't just a typo, someone knew what they were doing, an no one caught it. I like conspiracy's can ya tell?

I doubt Shawno is gonna let you borrow a sled lol! I could be wrong he is a great guy! but we always get the sleds back as I did this Sunday and told a bolt Broke from rough bumpy trails! I don't really care this guy is a friend and will get new parts!

JUST WENT OUT TONIGHT and came around a corner with 2 atv's riping up the trails. I tried to pass trough the ruts and they were EASILY 6" deep.

Assholes.

For some apparent reason, alot people who own OHRVS (including snowmobiles) seem entitled to use them in any manner they please, and go wherever they want. This is simply not true. The rules are simple and basic. There are no loopholes, special circumstanes, clauses, or fine print. If trail is not POSTED open for the paticular OHRV that you are operating, then it is CLOSED.

There are some trails that I ride on that are dual purpose and I have no problem with that. If the state or landowner wishes that the trail be multi-use, then so be it. There are plenty of other trails that are opened strictly for snowmobiles. We must learn to share trails that are open to all.

Snowmobile clubs are not responsible for posting trails for ATVS and vise versa. Each has its own STATE money and own clubs to maintain trails and distribute funds set aside for maintainance and equipment. There are many snowmobile clubs and very few ATV clubs in comparison. It is the responsibility of the ATV owner to get involved with a club to ensure the future of their activity.

We as snowmobilers do our part, stop whining and do yours. It seems clear that most ATV riders do not want to get involved. They want to ride wherever and piss and moan about people not letting them ride them on private property. Extending an olive branch to a landowner works much better than being disrespectful and doing what you please.

Snowmobilers are far from perfect. We do our fair share of pissing off the pope with our cans, modified exuast, reckless behavior, and disrespect for other people's property. It seems to me that someone is going to have to get mid-evil on OHRV violators and put an end to outlaw riding once and for all.

I would like to propose a $1500.00 fine and mandatory impoundment of the OHRV for anyone caught riding on trails that are not open to the use of that paticular OHRV. A separate fine would be imposed if there was any damage done to the property or trail. This fine would cover the cost of repairing the trail or property in question. The violater can get their OHRV back as soon as all the conditions are met. If the operator does not pay the fines imposed after one year, then the OHRV becomes the property of the state and sold at auction. If you "know" a trail is open but see no signs, call the local club or fish and game to see if it is indeed open. if it is open, then join the club in charge of the trail and volunteer to sign the trails. OHRV clubs love active members.

We all need to realize that the majority of OHRV trails are on private property. We made the decision to purchase an OHRV for our personal pleasure. The cost and registration gives us ZERO entitlement. It is not up to the landowner or the state to make sure we get to use our toy wherever and whenever we want. It is up to us to ensure that recreational riding has a future. Be polite, don't pollute, and respect other people. Most importantly, GET INVOLVED with a club. your actions will determine the future of your sport.