Ok, im under the impression opening day is Saturday the 15th.
Page 19 of November VAST news says the 15th......

But , front of the VAST website says the 16th

I believe it is the 16th. The first day after hunting season.

Its the 16th hunting season ends the 9th why the 16th who knows should be the 15th. If theres snow I will be riding on the 15th but most likely there will be none if its like the last few yrs but we can hope.

I am going with the 15th...

Actually, I just got off the phone with VAST. The opening day is on the 16th... :-(

Thanks for checking.

Strange. I would have prefered the 15th, to make a weekend out of it.

Oh well, just have to see what Mother Nature says, since she has the last word..........

The last day of Muzzleload deer season is the 14th, so opening day should be the 15th. Someone needs to let Vast know.

This is Bullllllllllllllllllll....I am fighting to get the 15th and 16th off.......and now I find out it opens on the 16th????????????????Can someone make some phone calls to open on the 15th?

I called VAST I was told that it was originally the 15th then they changed it to the 16th and it will be the 16th forever or until legislature changes it. It should be the day after musket season which happens the be the 10th this year. After the recent shitty winters why would they want to make people wait a week granted not as many ride before christmas as after but still the sooner the better for businesses etc. Just get your tma and go ride somewhere you wont get caught as far as you knew it was ok on the 15th.

Its printed in THEIR newsletter as the 15th ! Dumb.

No one ever said those at VAST were rocket scientists...

The VAST website reports on the front page:
Get Ready! Opening Day is December 16th!

However, on the VAST website Calendar they still have:
December 15, 2007 - VAST Snowmobile Season Begins – Think Snow!

We are planning on the 15th here in Cabot...if there is adequate snow we won't stop you from riding that day!

www.cabotskylighters.com

All the dates in the Vast newspaper states the 15th. It is plastered on almost every page with the 15 in the middle of the 40th Anniv. sticker. I am sure the majority of people are riding the 15th....if the conditions warrant it.

Same here. If there is adequate snow on our system, we wont stop anyone either, but in any case VAST makes the rules and mistakes happen. Dont loose sleep on this whole topic.

planing to open the gates for the 15th, snow permiting. were shortchanged all to often at lake leval. think snow!

Of the few years that there was adequate snow to go riding on opening day, I have found that most of the gates were closed, many dead ends, and you are basically stuck in a loop. I remember putting on about 70 miles in a 10 mile loop I was stuck on one year in the Danville area. I will be surprised if we have enough snow HOWEVER, the GFS says this for DEc 10th

Ice Princess- I'm not sure who you think "they at VAST" are but each of us are VAST! Weeza

Weeza,

I beg to differ!

We are all volunteers for VAST...but we are not VAST...if you think we are then in my opinion you are sadly mistaken!

I also do not manage the VAST website or the VAST News, if I did then I would make damn sure there were not these types of contradictions!

Ice princess

I have a hard enough time managing our club with 1300 members... I cant imagine what it is like running VAST. Give them a break. You know as well as I do that people are going to ride when they feel like it anyway.

Any club who opens there gastes and promotes or allows riding before the official opening day is leaving all there landowners wide open to lawsuits. The vast 2 million dollar insurance policy doesnt go into effect until the official opening day so beware everyone.

Ice Princess, The folks are correct We Are Vast. If you dont think so then come to the directors meeting and get involved. If you really feel they are doing such a lousy job then come and voice your opinions.Remember every director at the meeting is spending there night to keep snowmobiling in Vermont as good as it can be.I see your club got a groomer this year-did you get a grant?Do you get paid to groom? Seems like a pretty good system to me

Maybe you can tell us why VAST has delayed opening to to the 16th???? After investing so much $$ in to snowmobiles-gear-trailers and everything else....why short change snowmobilers a day......???????

Its not vast, it is a state law that the trails open the day after hunting season. The problem is that hunting season ending date seems to vary.Usually the 15th was the end of mussleloading season but i guess it is early this year.The date cant be changed by vast but we can and probably will ask the legislature to amend the opening date if hunting season will always end early(possibly amend it to say trails open the day after the last day of hunting).

Hunting season was early this year...hence the full week of November AFTER Thanksgiving. The legislature attempted to write a law that stated that trails would open the first Monday after that last deer season ended. It didn't work so well this year. It's not as easy as you think to create a law that will do this as the hunting season dates float too.

The law was amended 2 years ago to define the CLOSED season as:

April 15th to December 15th.

At the VAST Board of Directors meeting last night I posed the question of opening day being Saturday the 15th of December. The response was the opening day had to be the 16th by law. I asked if we could get our good Govener to issue a proclamation that opened the season on Saturday instead of Sunday and there was no overwhelming support for it.

Since the TMA'S were late from the printer and many of the Clubs and Agents have just received the booklets, it is probably best that the deadline for purchasing the reduced rate TMA's is Dec 15th and opening day ( and the higher rate TMA's ) is Sunday the 16th.

I will tell you that if there is rideable snow on the 15th- I'm riding!

The law was amended 2 years ago to define the CLOSED season as:

April 15th to December 15th.

At the VAST Board of Directors meeting last night I posed the question of opening day being Saturday the 15th of December. The response was the opening day had to be the 16th by law. I asked if we could get our good Govener to issue a proclamation that opened the season on Saturday instead of Sunday and there was no overwhelming support for it.

Since the TMA'S were late from the printer and many of the Clubs and Agents have just received the booklets, it is probably best that the deadline for purchasing the reduced rate TMA's is Dec 15th and opening day ( and the higher rate TMA's ) is Sunday the 16th.

I will tell you that if there is rideable snow on the 15th- I'm riding!

The law was amended 2 years ago to define the CLOSED season as:

April 15th to December 15th.

At the VAST Board of Directors meeting last night I posed the question of opening day being Saturday the 15th of December. The response was the opening day had to be the 16th by law. I asked if we could get our good Govener to issue a proclamation that opened the season on Saturday instead of Sunday and there was no overwhelming support for it.

Since the TMA'S were late from the printer and many of the Clubs and Agents have just received the booklets, it is probably best that the deadline for purchasing the reduced rate TMA's is Dec 15th and opening day ( and the higher rate TMA's ) is Sunday the 16th.

I will tell you that if there is rideable snow on the 15th- I'm riding!

The law was amended 2 years ago to define the CLOSED season as:

April 15th to December 15th.

At the VAST Board of Directors meeting last night I posed the question of opening day being Saturday the 15th of December. The response was the opening day had to be the 16th by law. I asked if we could get our good Govener to issue a proclamation that opened the season on Saturday instead of Sunday and there was no overwhelming support for it.

Since the TMA'S were late from the printer and many of the Clubs and Agents have just received the booklets, it is probably best that the deadline for purchasing the reduced rate TMA's is Dec 15th and opening day ( and the higher rate TMA's ) is Sunday the 16th.

I will tell you that if there is rideable snow on the 15th- I'm riding!

You will not be alone.

First maybe someone should make it very clear what opening day is and then stick to it...rather than making us all look rediculous! Bottom line the VAST news did have plastered throughout it December 15th... the VAST website controdicts itself...so if anyone is "liable" it is VAST.

I 100% know what you are saying regarding landowners and lawsuits, liability and responsibility...WE are the individuals GIVING VAST our time, our money, our energy, our effort, getting annual signatures from landowners - sitting in thier living rooms, fielding phone calls when they are upset.....somehow this part of the equation has been lost to some at VAST. We do this for our community, our landowners, our members, and our family and friends...We did get a groomer and we will get paid for grooming but REMEMBER WE will GIVE many, many hours of our own time to run that groomer this winter...to keep the trails nice, to comply with our contract, and to make sure we have a way for snow travelers to make thier way into and through Cabot. Oh and lets not forget the 30 plus hours spent just in the past three weeks getting the groomer ready for snow...up-keep of that machine and attachments, traveling to pick up supplies, grease, parts, etc., for that groomer! All at the same time working another 30 plus hours in the past month to get ready for our annual fundraising event to put some money back into the club account to cover the costs VAST did not cover with the start up check...oh and the club will still need to pay for gas to run that groomer until the first grooming check comes in. So don't tell me how great the system is, or how hard those at VAST work, WE - those working for FREE hundreds of hours a year, running these clubs are the true reason VAST is VAST! I find that we don't get the respect we deserve...unless you find an inside friend at the VAST office....NOT how it should work! Oh and don't tell me to come to a directors meeting...for the first two years we attended all of VAST's meetings and voiced our concerns and suggestions and it got us nowhere but in the dog house...VAST does not want to hear our concerns, complaints, or even our suggestions ...

But we still live in a democratic society and each is entitled to his or her own opinion!

You hit the nail on the head...

From what I can see and correct me if I'm wrong but if your not in the "click" with Vast your basicly all done? It seems like a very clicky orginazation almost to the point of immature. It reminds me of High School Sports where if your not in the prepy click your kid doesn't play and your black balled. In this day and age with all the related issues of snowmobiling everyone should be heard and treated with respect. I realize some people maybe a bit more stubburn than others but thats where good management comes into play, to make the unwanted feel wanted. This is only my opinion looking outside in....

Anyway good luck, and of course Happy Riding....

Ice princess, I will agree with you that everone is entilted to there own opinion, some are right and some are wrong.

If your start up check didnt cover the expenses to get the groomer running which i believe your club just purchased, then i would say you have been ripped off.

Since you are so negative and anti vast why do you still associate with such a lousy association?

You know the more I think about this the more saddened I become...I have visited with the old timers of VAST and I have sat though annual meetings where we all honor them and the work they did to build this organization... and through the years it seems that the heart and soul of what VAST was, has been clouded but hopefully not lost...I will explain.

I believe every club officer still has that heart and soul, this is not where the problem lies; they still understand the real reason we do what we do...they are selfless volunteers; motivated, intelligent, hard working folks. I feel that the board needs to really evaluate how VAST is being run and the impression being made by those in "charge".

Rx1vt you made my point with this statement "I see your club got a groomer this year-did you get a grant? Do you get paid to groom? Seems like a pretty good system to me." It is that exact "see what we (they) did for you" ... mentality... and the underlying... "Shut up or we can take it all away"... impression... that creates the perception that we, the clubs, are no longer part of VAST but rather considered servants of VAST. This is why I said what I said and have no problem saying that is just how I feel.

I will admit that I am thankful as a club officer to have received grant funding to pay a fraction of the cost of our groomer, it certainly helps a small club like ours...but I don't believe that we should feel deeply indebted to those at VAST for this...they are paid to work for us, to arrange grant opportunities such as this and deliver a service to all associated to VAST...the current atmosphere at VAST seems to have this very backwards.

I am sorry to sound so negative but I could very easily give a rather long list of examples related to the subject and if I thought the board would truly listen and maybe even entertain changes, I would gladly prepare a statement and present it to the board. And let it be known, club officers talk, and though I am sure some out there don't share my opinions, there are many who do.

Like I said previously... We do what we do for our communities, our landowners, our members, our family, and friends. We do it because we love the sport and what to share that with other snowmobiling enthusiasts. Being involved in a club is a selfless, sometimes frustrating, very time consuming job that takes up most of our free time year round...most don't realize this...but VAST should, and we should not be made to feel as though they are doing us a favor.

Oh come on, be real will ya. I think its called dedication, love for the sport. Differant opinions, idia's, personalities makes the snowmobiling world a better place. Every large organization is going to have a few unhappy members, you can't make everyone happy. Its good to hear what makes someone pissed off. That way the problem can be addressed, if there not black balled?

A few years back I talked with some NH clubs and they all look up to Vermonts trails and trail system. Saying "they really have there shit together" I have to admit VT does have the most organized trail system I've ever seen. I found out its mainly due to dedication of people, volunteers, land owners.

Yet again you made my point for me, and so eloquently....

Thank you....you understand why we continue to do the best possible job on our trials in our little town and in our club.....rather than just pack up our toys and go home. Thanks!

As a newcomer at the VAST (state) level, I can understand the feeling of being an outsider. However, it's not anyone's fault. It's called being the new guy on the block. When you walk into a group of folks that have been working together for many years, what would you expect? It didn't take too long before I was involved with the works and remembering faces and names. These things take time. Please remember we now have a new President and V.P., so give the new guys a chance. I too had issues with coping with certain officers in the past, but this happens. Like you said, some are more stubborn than others. I couldn't see my place as an alt. director, so I chose to back away, and tried the trails committee. That worked. I don't blame anyone, but I know the feeling of not being heard. It was a long trip just to feel useless.
Some of the committee folks have worked together for many years and have become good friends. Of course they are going to hang together. During an event, they'll socialize together. If you're new, you may not feel accepted into this loop. That's natural. This has nothing to do with VAST, but everything to do with being human.
I have never been treated badly by any employee of VAST. Any questions or concerns have been addressed as I would expect. I usually deal with Alexis, Matt and Kathy, and they are fantastic.
I've dealt with Pat (pres) and Jim (vp) for a few years and admire both . They are reasonable and dedicated officers. If you come at them with bullcrap, they'll hand you a shovel and show you how to use it. They will guide VAST with common sense.
If these guys are deemed unreasonable and cliqueish, we don't have a prayer.
Change can be good.
Happy trails!!

Well said nail set. Im done before this gats any worse-time to move on


Hopefully one day we will all meet and have a beer and a group hug.

Hey the good news is snow coming sunday night.YIPPPEEE

I agree lets move on. Its good to get things in the open. Can't wait for trail reports....

We got another 5" last night with a nice solid crusty base. With a cold snowy next couple of days may make for a grand opening day....

dgree....where did you get 5"....we got a few ourselves...I hear that Monday is going to be the day the heavens open up and pour snow love on us all
..I hope they are right! We want to play with the new groomer!

Its called Holland, VT here's a couple of pictures taken Sunday 12/2/07 even though the date says november??? It was -2 Saturday night

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

dgree, I like your weathervane.

degree ~ Nice shots... in Cabot we ended up with about a foot and a half by Tuesday morning...but its been snowing lightly ever since so there is even more now. Looked on a map, and though I have never been to Holland, VT...I spent a lot of time working in Morgan the past few summers...very nice area! And you couldn't be closer to the boarder...how hard is it to cross over into Canada by sled? Do they allow snowmobiles out on the Seymour?