Just like the subtitle says. Which ones should I order??

My 600 has the front left mount torn. I will be adding the torque arm from the pinned thread while I am at it. Just wondering which set of mounts I should order. I understand the 90s are harder and likely to transfer more vibration. Not overly worried about that - just want to reduce the likelyhood of having to do them again.

Thanks guys.

My personal experience was that the 90 duro mounts are no better than the stock mounts and that they're not needed.

Rocket, the harder motor mounts are junk.. stay away from those.. ask Shortstop 20.. lol

get a torque arm instead , they are a must , and your engine mounts problems will be gone.. to my knowledge there are no torque arms to be purchased through any company at this given time.. many have bought the arm for the 700/800 pro x from SLP and modded that to fit the ves 600
also talk to N2iroc, i know he has been makin torquearms in the past...

I run the 90's. Put them in after the stock ones tore. It's more about using a torque arm and push arm than what kind of mounts you use. I'm also putting in a motor plate for this season. I'm hoping for no movement whatsoever(atleast that's the goal).

I have a motor plate as well on my Pro-X 800 and the motor is mounted really solid in the chassis. No give like there used to be with the 2 separate straps.

The 90s are junk...two of mine broke on 1 ride. Stay with the stock ones and use a torque arm.

Thanks guys. Sounds like I will be ordering the stock mounts and the torque arm for the 440.

Here are some part #s for those who need it.

Torque Arm for small block - 2870640 (thanks PolarisNut)
90 Duro Mounts - 2900188
Stock 65 Mounts - 3021244

The 90d mounts are not junk. They do however transfer more vibration to the chassis. Without a torque arm they will also break. The main advantage to the 90d is less horizontal movement. Vertical movement is what tears the LF mount.

Alley:

Thanks for the info. Not sure if I need to be worried about horizontal movement with a stock 600??

I will be adding a torque arm regardless of which mounts I use.

So my question to you would be - with a stock 600, almond blue primary spring, torque arm to be installed - which mounts would you order??

Rocket, pin this topic also..

Will do.

Now - just from looking at it this is how I assume the job should be done. I appreciate any and all comments from those who have done it.

Remove Exhaust Pipe and Can
Remove Drive Clutch
Remove Air Box
Remove Carb rack from motor
Remove nuts holding motor in sled
Lift motor up to allow access to mounts (will have a handy rope off the ceiling for this)
Remove broken mount (use hammer and punch on the wings of the mount) this may require heat
Install new mounts with Loctite
Install torque arm bracket on block
Complete the above in reverse

Does this sound about right - what have I missed???

I think if Polaris would've designed to bulkhead so that the front mounts were angled towards the motor just like the rear mounts we wouldn't have this issue. Speaking of which, notice that the 600, 700, and 800 CFI motors ALL have angled front and rear mounts. I think that would reduce the "lifting" of the motor on the LF mount.

sounds about right, i would also check alignment and cc of the clutches when done..

but on a big block 700/800 ves/non ves, you would have to really carefull lifting the motor so it dosent squash the oil injection pump present on the right side (viewed from ride seating position) ,

there is a bracket bolted to the side of the bulkhead that supports the exhaust system, it´s rather tight between the pump and this bracket on the big blocks... just thought of this..

you might be on to something considering the vertical movement, but if you say the 90´s duros are not junk, i will have to disagree, a few friends of my have had these installed, and to their disapointment they teared in only a few miles and my stockers have held up great with a torque arm..

the torque arm is the key to healthy engine mounts .. on all the Pro x sleds.. they should have been installed from factory from the beginning

my2c

Hammer and punch works good, you can also use a pipe wrench. You shouldn't need any heat. I don't think the mounts have locktite on them from the factory, I guess I don't remember for sure. I never put any loctite on mine. I don't wanna make it even harder to get the mounts out if I ever have to do it again. Both times that I have replaced my mounts(before I got the torque arm and motor plate) the mount was still plenty tight on the bulkhead, I don't think loctite is needed.

my .02

RR, you will have to remove the engine in order to get access to remove and install the new mounts. If you are only going to change the left front, you may be able to lift the engine off the studs and scoot it over enough, but I always replace them all for piece of mind. I am currently running 90d on my 600. I have over 5,000 miles since installation without any breakage. I do feel some additional vibration in the running boards at lower/launch RPMs. But at cruising RPMs it's just as smooth. I do have a SLP left front torque arm installed. It is a modified from a 700 pro-x as SLP does not make one for a 600. It works excellent. I have also replaced just the left front mount on my brothers 600 with a 65d and installed the torque arm, he too has not torn the mount again in about the same amount of miles.

The mounts take a special Polaris socket to remove them and install them to the bulk head. I have found that a front wheel bearing hub socket for 1972 to 1990 GMC 4 wheel drive works well. You can one at any auto parts store. Some guys use a hammer and chisel, but it mars the bulk head up. Use a socket so you can torque then to spec.

There is considerably less horizontal movement with 90d vs 65d. It is a visible difference. My brothers 600 has all the same clutching and other mild mods, but mine will pull his by two sled lengths every time. I contribute that to less engine movement under load.

Okay - Now I have another problem!

I called the dealer to see about ordering the torque arm part #2870640. This is the part a number of guys have used on here for the small block motor.

Well the dealer says this part is discountinued!!

Anyone have any ideas??

Alley - what is involved in modding an SLP torque arm for a big block to fit the small block?? Is it just the bracket that mounts to the motor??

I have also looked at the parts manual for the 440 ProXRs - see below. It appears to have a bracket mounted to the bulkhead which captures the head of the bolt on the torque arm (#2 in the pic). This set up does not appear to have a "Hime" joint on both ends of the torque arm.

Appreciate any advice and opinions as I have no experience with this stuff. Attached is the picture from the parts manual of the ProXR 440.

The 700 torque arm bracket mounts to the engine without any modification. It just will not mount to the shock tower like it would with a 700.

There is a hole in the left longitudenal rail just to the rear of the tie rod boot. I used a 4 inch long 3/8-16 bolt with a fender washer from the outside then a another fender washer on the inside. Then make a spacer to take up the distance from the fender washer to the hiem joint, then a washer and nylok nut.

So, it goes like this, A 4" bolt with a fender washer through the rail from the outside. Then a fender washer on the inside, a spacer about 2.5 inches long, a flat washer, through the hiem joint, a flat washer, and nylok nut.

Once you have the engine alligned, adjust the torque link neutral (no load). Make sure the stock snubber is finger tight against the engine (no gap).

My $.02 on the subject. I blew a few belts before I figured the left front motor mount was torn. Put 90 durometer mounts in the front and had to leave the back ones stock due to parts availiblity. I also put the SLP torque arm in.

Within 100 miles I broke the heim joint on the torque arm. I replaced it with a stronger joint. I am also still blowing belts so I gave up and brought it to Indy Dan. I talked to him about the 90 durometer mounts and at the risk of misquoting him here is what he told me.

90 duro mounts are bad for the motor due to vibration and the stock mounts are fine. He feels that the torque stop must be gapped correctly or you will tear mounts. Properly gapped the motor rotates before hitting the stop and stresses all four mounts equally. If you have the torque stop tight to the motor it does not twist, torsion of the motor lifts the front PTO side putting all the stress on the one mount and tears.

My thoughts are it explains why with 90 duro mounts and a torque arm we are still breaking the heim joint.

My concern now is that I tweaked the crank after three exploding belts at over 90 mph. So I gave up and I am leaving it to the Pro's.


Jeff

I have been doing engine alignments, and relocations for 30 years. I am also running 90d on my pro-x for over 5,000 miles and have had zero problems or failures. It's all in the alignment. Yes, you do get a little more vibration transmitted to the bulkhead, but it is not hardly noticeable. It also does not hurt the engine. If it did hurt something it would be the bulkhead. The vibration the engine produces would be there no matter what the durometer of the mounts are. And if you leave a gap in the factory snubber when using a torque link, it will destroy the torque link. The snubber must be adjusted until it just contacts the crank case. The link must also not be preloaded. It must be neutral.

The main advantage to the 90d over the 60d when properly adjusted is zero engine twist under load. This produces a more consistent launch as well as consistent up shift and down shift. It also makes the belt last twice as long and never get any belt dust. I have used the 60d on other pro-x in conjunction with the link and my own offset compensation with great success. So, yes you don't need 90d to keep one from tearing. It really has nothing to do with it.

BTW.. On your 700, you need both the SLP left front torque link, as well as the SLP right front snubber. If you don't use both on 700 or 800, it will break belts for sure at full shift out under load. This is caused by your engine rotating and shortening the center to center, especially with 65d mounts.

My only issue with the 90D mounts is that they seem to delaminate easily. The rubber separates from the metal backer plate. I had 3 do that. Maybe I had a bad batch, but I've seen others complain of the same thing. Had a torque arm (no preload), and had the torque stop set tight against the case. Popped both front mounts within 250 miles. Replaced them, and broke the front PTO mount again.

^^^^^^
Same thing happened to me.

well after seeing this topic i went out and looked at mine and i found that the front left mount is broken so i guess i'll be doing this job as well and looking to make a front torque arm.

I won't argue about the gap because I don't know. Your last sentence has me thinking. I have ridden in lots of powder, high rates of speed and all sorts of condition for 3,500 miles. I don't see belt wear, dust or anything. All of my broken belts have been thottle pinned, roughly 90 mph (on GPS) and absolutely grenaded the belts into 1" x 1" pieces. I have wondered if the belt is bottoming out on the secondary or going over the top of the primary? You twisting theory could make sense.....

Jeff

Jeff, that is very possible. It is not actually bottoming out, the secondary may actually be binding up. This is a issue with the team driven units. The fix is to go to a counter clockwise wound spring as well as using a Delrin washer between the spring and spring cup. The moveable sheeve bushing may also be worn to the point it causes binding. SLP is who makes the washers, and the replacement bushings. If you don't have this update, be sure to do it. it will be a night and day diff in shifting.

Thanks, I did the spring and derlin washer updates. One of the things IndyDan is going to check is that my clutches are put together correctly, not worn, binding or need shimming. I did the clutching myself and in theory should be right but something is causing the belt to explode!

Are you going to have him look at the crank? I'd be somewhat weary after blowing three belts at WFO.

Yep, that's why it's there. He suspects the crank, I hope it's the clutches/motor mounts.

Not sure what you guys are doing that I am not but I have never blown a belt in 5200 miles on my pro x. I am using the same clutching that everyone else is and have stock mounts. I don't have any added arms just the one it came with.
I could not change my alignment on the motor even if I wanted to the holes are not slotted.

Mine was 100% stock except jetting and studs when I blew the belt and discovered the motor mount torn.

I wonder if when these things were built have anything to do with it. I was told that back in 03 that they were having a hard time with them and were changing stuff as they(prox's) went down the line.

On the plate my engine bolts to the are no slotted holes for adjustment. So how would a person adjust the engine for offset and such.

I know polaris9500 rode my sled hard. Maybe I am just a pussy when I ride it. I pull a 3 mile nearly wot run everytime I am in northern wi. It is a nice 100' wide trail/road.

I am pulling a blank as why some sleds blow belts and others don't.

I am using a 098 belt if that makes any difference.

Your dealer lied, that part number is good and current.

Don

If memory serves me, the 440 torque stop is a very expensive piece. RR, pm Matt. He's traveling Asia now but will be back next week. He found a torque stop which worked very well and is way less cash then the 440 stop. IMO, use the stock motor mounts w/out loctite. Loctite makes them a bitch to swap out. The small block 600's front mounts can be changed in 15-20 minutes without pulling the motor. Just loosen the rear mount nuts and remove the front mount nuts. Pry up on the motor with broom stick or 2x4. Remove the old mount and install the new. Use a drift and hammer to loosen the mounts by tapping on the wings. They'll spin off by hand. Tighten the new ones using the same method.

Are you running studs?

I was looking at my motor's serial number the other day and it is number 254 or something like that. So it's one of the early ones. My stock motor straps have no slots cut in the rear mounts and does have slots for the front mounts. Although I'm using a one piece motor plate now anyways. There was enough play in my motor straps to where alignment could be 5mm off, barely any off on C-C though.

I'm pretty confident with the mounting setup that I've got now, that I won't have to worry about the front PTO mount. I still make a habit to check it every couple of rides though and always before a big trip. I even bring two spare mounts with me on trips. My sled was a slug when I bought it, had a broken motor mount, way fat jetting and light clutching. It is a totally different animal now. Couldn't be happier with it.

Yes running studs. Originally it came with 168 1.17" woodys. This year I am going to use 120 1.187 studboys

Interesting! The guy I talked to on the phone has no idea what it is for, so I know it was not an attempt to up sell me. He put in the part # and it came up as discontinued in his system.




AFJ

You are right - the torque arm set up for a 440 ProXr runs about $150 up here in Canuckland - I priced it out.

I started another thread in the Racer forum and AkIQ gave me a few good ideas. I was able to buy a used torque arm from a IQ racer for $30 + shipping from a thread I started in the classified section.

I wonder if the arm Matt used is the one I tried to get earlier - but was told it was discontinued. The number is from a 1988 488 Indy. It is only about $20.

For now I think I should be all set with the IQ arm. May need a longer bolt to attach it to the chassis - but I think I can make it work.

Thanks again.

I tried Parts Smart first, and it showed a good number, then I logged onto Polaris parts manager, it also showed a good number, so I asked if they had 500 of them in stock, the inventory indicated it did, and gave me a price of over $8,000. BTW they are $16.99 each.

Don

Don:

I will let you know if the IQ arm does not work out. Perhaps I can purchase one of these arms from you and have you send it up to me - for a fee of course.

Kinda pissed at myself actually - I should have done this last season. Just got busy and took the sled up north!

hey RR i'm in the same boat i cant really seem to find anything that will work. Can you guys post up what you made to work on these small blocks

Chronic:

I think you have 3 options for a 600 ProX:

1. Try and get the torque arm kit for the old 488 motor. The dealer I called said it was discontinued - but Don says Polaris has them in stock. It includes the entire kit and is like $20. As I understand it the bracket for the motor does not work and you have to fab up your own.

Torque Arm for 488 - # 2870640 (thanks PolarisNut).

2. Buy the entire torque arm assembly from a 2002-2004 ProXr 440.

3. Buy the entire torque arm assembly from a IQ 440 Racer.

Now I have purchased option #3 from the classifieds here. I know there is an option #2 offered in my thread. Have a look at it and feel free to get it (as I don't need it). Much cheaper than buying from a dealer.

http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/inde...howtopic=275172

Edit:

I had put together all the various part #s for an email to the dealer that are required to use the IQ 440 Racer torque arm. Here they are:

1 - 7060167 - Rod End
1 - 5246537 - Brkt Torque Limiter
1 - 7512404 - Bolt
2 - 7516730 - Asm - Screw and Washer
1 - 7542401 - Nut
1 - 7555797 - Washer, Flat
1 - 3021411 - Limiter, Torque
1 - 7555823 - Washer
1 - 7552603 - Spring washer
1 - 7515521 - Bolt
1 - 7542439 - Nut, nylok

I never had motor mount issues until I 660'd the motor and put a 1.25 track with studs in. Never had an issue with the completely stock setup. A buddy of mine had an 03 800 and never had mount issues in 2500 miles, but he also had the stock 1" track. I think the mounts tear when the track hooks/unhooks while under full throttle. I think Polaris realized their error in designing the mount system for the ProX, as the IQ sleds have a different setup, but use the same front mounts. They now have a built in torque stop on the front PTO mount along with the regular torque stop that presses up against the back of the case.

Is this problem only on the pro X model sleds? I have a 700 VES motor mounted on my XC with the stock 600 straps, only moddified to fit the 700. You think I'll have a problem?

Your engine is adjustable, they all are. And they are never right from the factory. The front holes are sloted. Even without slots the engine can move quite bit. There is at least .060" slop in the mount holes. That translates to as much as 1/4" at the crank.

Not on my pro x 700. The front motor mount bolts just fit through the holes they are round not slotted. The rear holes are slotted to get the motor mount bolts through at the angle they are. I have had the motor out twice and everytime I bolt it in it goes in the same place and the measurements are the same. Maybe I got a different motor plate as it was used when I got it.
It was polaris9500's sled. Maybe he had a heavier/different plate put in. I/we will never know.

That's odd. My Pro-X motor straps are just the opposite, from holes slotted and rear holes round.

front holes slotted I mean.

I don't know what to say. The rears ar slotted so that when you drop it in the front and back go in at the same time. Other than that it could be a fight.

I was always told that polaris was changing alot of stuff in 03'. So maybe this was one of the parts the didn't keep a constant on. Hell, I don't know.

Great thread guys!!!

my 2 cents.

back in about 1998/99 a good friend of mine had built a Big Bore 800 Ultra and this sled had been out west on at least 5 trips with no-problems.

Being that he had done some drag racing and saw the benifits of anchoring the motor better he changed out the stock OE mounts to the 90 Durometer. He unloaded the sled in cooke city and before he left town the motor sounded like it dropped a hole. after checking things out we found little compression in one hole ( everyone thought the same thing ) impossible to hurt the motor in town just burping it.

We pulled the cylinder only to find the piston split straight accross the dome in-line with the wrist pin. put a new piston in it & took off, less then a mile it did the same thing.

3 pistons later we said to our selves..........................what in the hell is going on here.........After thinking about it he said the only thing he did was change the motor mounts to 90 D's.

we changed all the mounts back to stock and never had another problem.


Now, that being said......... How I form my answer to people on this subject.

#1 - all motors are different and crankshaft length has alot to do with how, when and where harmonics show up.

#2 - the bigger the motor the more important it is to have softer mounts. 440/500/600's cannot be compared to 700/800's

#3 - One or two people out there having great " LUCK " does not cut it. You can have a guy that has 90 D's in his sled and drives it 5000 miles with no -problems, THEN let another guy ride it and all " He!! " breaks loose. if rider two stays in an area the motor don't like bad things can happen. Where as rider number one may go right thru the bad area and never let the motor operate in the same RPM's that ride two did.

So that being said, 60 to 70 durometer mounts are the max IMO, For the masses. Locking the motor solid is not an option for the masses.

I will tell you this, If 100% of all the sleds changed to 90 durometer mounts you would see more bulkhead damage and motor damage then you can imagin.

The motor needs to have alittle give ( rememebr ) The masses.

Example # 1 - 600cc sled with 90 D mounts and a crankshaft with less then .001 crank run-out ( lasts for 8000 miles )

Example #2 - 600cc sled with 90 D mounts and a crankshaft with .003 run-out ( Motor destroys itself in 500 Miles )

Polaris crank acceptable allowance .003 or less, Believe me a few sleds slip thru at Plus .003 to .010

This is why a person with good luck running 90 D mounts should not tell everyone else to run them. ( all things are not equal )

There are plenty of sleds around ( More then not ) that have stock OEM Mounts with little or no belt issues.

If your blowing belts on a stock sled and none of the OE mounts are broke..............Harder mounts are NOT the answer. there is trouble lurking some where else.

Dan

Dan:

Thanks for your comments and thanks for joining over here! From what I understand you are just a bundle of information on these motors.

Welcome!

I agree Dan. I also believe the key no matter what the durometer is, the mounts must be in their unloaded position with the specified alignment specs. In other words, the mounts should not be put into a bind to achieve optimum alignment.