I have been looking through there catalog, and they are claiming 5 to 10 mph gain on top end, I would think 10 mph on a 1000, and 5 on a 6 to 700. I like there products (I have a "Y" pipe, and pipe mod from them last year) But I have a hard time believing 5 to 10 moh for $150.00. any thoughts. thanks JT

whats with the popcorn, its a lagit question, I would think. JT

I'm curious on this one too, I've heard people mention the BMP pipe mods and the like, is this a real performance increase or just snake oil?

blinker fluid?

Do a search - Your questions will bee answered - Alot of different companies last year making this same claim/theory with the secondary conversion - Old news

You want more top end

10 tooth drivers or 62/58 gears or both and some decent clutching

Scott

I'd have to disagree with that. The Crossfire (with 60/60) is geared for a theoretical 112 mph, so you don't need taller gearing. It's the clutching that holds back the top end, just like it did on every other DD machine, when they went to the compression spring secondary. The ZR900 and Firecat (which originally had a chaincase and torsion spring secondary) both lost around 10 mph when they went to that clutching with the DD. There is no loss of speed from the planetary gears; it's all in the crappy clutch design.

I have a conversion and like it. IT makes it very easy to ajust if you don't have adjustable weights. I realy feel you need to stick with the stock shape weight or the dalton pros. No that you can get the dalton pros in adjustable weights this kit may not be needed any more. Goodwin has alot of new springs for the secondary now that will give you a very high top end spring rate and with the D&D shift assist will not hang up and stop the shift.

I still run it and like it. I feel you can get the same gain with all the new spring rates. There should be some realy good DDrive clutch kits comeing out this year.

I agree 110%, you definately need taller gears to go faster with a crossfire. you can theorize all you want about it being good for 112mph, but reality is another story

The reality is that people on this forum have done over 110 with the stock 60/60 gears. If one can do it, they all can. If gearing was the limiting factor, you would not have some sleds that can't even hit 100, and others that can break 110 (with the same gears). And if gearing was the limit, you would be over-revving when you hit that limit (but nobody does). The variable is in the clutching. That is fact, not theory. The early builds had taller gearing (65/55), and they had just as much trouble breaking 100 as some of the late builds (with 60/60).

I agree its in the clutching. the factory clutches are set up for way too much OD, only a select few will ever acheive grater than 108mph with a 60/60 geared machine, unless on extremely perfect conditions, because the clutches are simply not able to efficiently get up into that shift ratio.
gearing the sled up will allow greater top speed in varying conditions, via less OD(a more efficient ratio), and will also get you up to top speed quicker. this is my experience.
the EB's are geared a little too tall, especially considering the 10" sec clutch. the EB's would be much better with a 10.4" secondary.

Taller gears will not help you get to top speed quicker! Why do you think that ice/grass racers gear down? Because they only care about acceleration, not top speed.

Clutches don't care what their ratio is. There is nothing magical about being above a 1:1 ratio that keeps clutches from shifting out. Every sled should be able to reach full shift, if it is geared and clutched properly. If you can't shift out fully, then you are over-geared or underpowered, or your clutching is off. If you are undergeared, then you will over-rev when the clutches reach full shift. Those are indisputable facts, and proof that the 60/60 is not undergeared. However, the shitty design of Cat's compression-spring secondary is preventing them from reaching full shift. And if a "select few" can get 112 with 60/60 gearing, then they all can; they just need to clutch like the fast ones did.

Who are these select few that have seen 112 on GPS ???? I cant name one

That is 9 tooth drivers and 60/60 gears , 100 % stock motor , no fuel pac , no timing key , no exhaust , no nothing , other then clutching - Thanx Scott

And its not going to happen with the 036 belt

If you look through some of the old "top speed" threads, there were numerous people who claimed to hit 110 or higher, with 60/60 gearing. Cats manual states that it should be good for 112 at 7800 RPM. And as for GPS....these digital speedos are so close (normally within one or two mph at 100mph), that they are plenty accurate for this discussion of Crossfire top speeds; it doesn't need to be GPS or radar (unlike most sleds). Even if you added horsepower to get over 110, that is irrelevant to this discussion, which is that the crappy clutching is what holds top speed down on these things, not the gearing.

I hit around the ~107 mark on my XF late build. It was in picture perfect conditions though on a hard packed road that runs for 200+ miles with tons of straightaways. It's like a landing strip for sleds along some parts. That was before I began pulling my skid though, I wasn't able to get more than 100 or 102 after pulling my skid, later on I didn't realize I jacked the track WAY too tight and one side was out of alignment so that's why I lost some speed. This year I'm going in with it aligned, greased, new sliders, and a DnD shift assist, and I'm going to loosen it up a bit more tension wise. We'll see what it tops out at this time.

how would I know which sled I have early or late and what gearing without taking it apart??? or is there no other way???

also, lets hear some more about the old helix coversion kit???
Thanks
Doc

I'm going to disagree with the masses. I think the DD DOES slow the sled down. Heck I had that sucker off the other day and it's HARD to turn by hand. Bearings are smooth, but it doesn't just free roll like a chaincase.

Mine's gone 110. They won't go 112 unless you change gears / drivers IMO the only thing the torsion kits can possibly do is gain a bit of consistency. Maybe not even that. The conditions don't seem to effect my XF any more than my 03 F7.

The 700 is undergeared period. You cannot gain mph with a torsion kit alone.

I have and early build and it's been a while since I dealt with this but this is what I remember:

Front springs look significantly different . ... EB's have a lighter spring rate ...but you have to see them both to compare. It's the easiest way to spot an eb once you've seen them both.

The EB's have a much smaller heat exchanger....but again you'd have to see them. I can't remember well enough to describe the difference but I remember it is easy to see.

My EB did not come a foam piece separating the storage compartment from the underseat area, so items could slide down. The next season, they had them in.

Alas, I believe there is a plate/tag around the clutch/dd case area the shows the ratio. I just noticed it the other day as it showed 65:55


I Guess we're getting off topic. Hope that helps, I'm just tryin to jog my memory.