The Pigeon River State Forest is located northeast of Gaylord Michigan. There is currently a plan in progress to update a land management order which could result in limited to no snowmobile access to the forest. The PRSF is different than most areas in Michigan when it comes to snowmobiling. There are no designated groomed snowmobile trails. Motorcycles and ATV's are prohibited at all times of the year. A delicate balance exists between hunters, snowmobilers, cross-country skiers and hikers. Public opinion is currently being accepted on what, if any changes should be made to snowmobile access. Ten years ago, there was a proposal to limit all snowmobile traffic to plowed county roads within the forest. I intiated a petition to leave things the way they were (no restrictions on snowmobile travel within the forest) and presented it to the forest manager (since retired). The hundred or so people that were involved in the petition made their voice be heard and nothing changed. We are back to that point again where we need the snomobilers voice to be heard. The area is not for all snowmobilers. No groomed trails, no gas stations, no bars or eating establishments. The snowmobiling goes at a slower pace, where quality far outweighs quanity. Elk, deer, turkey, eagles, etc are not uncommon to see during a trip through the forest. We have lost the Mason tract down by Graying/Waters area (no snowmobiles allowed). The PRSF has a portion (Green Timbers) that has no motorized travel allowed. Please write the State and let them know we want to continue to use the forest as we have been for the last several years. Please mail comments to: Pigeon River Country Concept of Management Update, Department of Natural Resources, Forest,Mineral, and Fire Management Division. PO Box 30452, Lansing, MI 48909-7952. They are accepting public comments through September 15th, so please do not delay.

send your comments here

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0%2C1607%2C7-1...004--%2C00.html

Hopefully this post will get people to respond and save our riding in the Pigeon River Forest ! Good job Gravey Davey getting this on here.

Sent them an email, I already take the quad up that way now and it pisses me off I can't go into it!!!

Yeah that sucks you cant ride the quads but at least we can still ride the sleds in there. Hopefully they dont ban us from riding our snowmobiles in there because that is where I mostly ride off trail. Plus in the summer you can take your trucks in there to look for elk and deer and do a little off roading with a orv sticker.

Thank you for the heads up and link. My opionion has been submitted!

bump

They let vehicles in there but no quads!?!?! Thats stupid, oh well, ya I always run old vanderbilt road till it comes to the state forest by the powerline there, I didn't know you could run sleds in there, guess I'll check it out this winter

Yeah most people ride around in there looking for elk in the summer on the two tracks. Just make sure you send a email or letter otherwise we wont be riding our sleds out there at all!

sent mine last night

Thank you!

Typical MI DNR. We got busted two years ago on a snowmobile trail with our bikes, it was an ORV trail but we missed the little turn off that the bikes are supposed to take.
Well this DNR ass was basically blabbing about erosion of the trails yada yada , and at that exact moment a dune buggy came around the corner in a full drift shooting a rooster tail into the woods BUT he was legal because he had a MI license plate. I spoke up and said THAT isn't errosion ?!?! Got no answer.
I actually wasn't aware that the Pigeon river forest was off limits to quads/bikes. My cabin is just south of there and we've snowmobiled them on occasion.

PRC is a jem of this state! Anyone who frequents the area understands how unique and special it is. I disagree w/ the statement that it's stupid not to allow quads. I think it would drastically change the area. Don't get me wrong, I am a quadder, but do not want to see the area open to quads. As for sleds, I've riden PRC several times. As was stated, it's not a typical sledder area, which is why, I think, we have been allowed to ride there. Thankfully, the area doesn't get high rider numbers.
Thanx, Gravey, I'll be sending an Email.

Here in NH, we have a great working relationship with the folks who run the state's forests. Our club has groomed trails in 5 designated forests, both state and private. How close is the Michigan economic management system working with the DNR/forests arm? Doesn't the state of Michigan realise how important sleds are? If you meet static on keeping this forest as is, you guys in this thread should push for designated groomed club trails as a second choice to no sleds at all. Generally, the conservationists will agree to club/state backed trails...and the state and club(s) need to have their act together too. The trails have to be babied. Just speaking from experience, it took us 16 months to get permission to cross state forest land...using 90% existing roads. Archeology was the biggest hurdle...10,000 year old indian stuff...who knew?

Their will never be any groomed trails that run through the PRSF. This is not really the DNR its the PRSF commity but it has to be approved by the DNR.

i pined it your ya.

Thanks!!!

Thx for the heads up. I put in my $.02 and will pass on to some friends that ride the area.

Any more word on this whole thing?????

yea what he said! Whats going on with the PRSF

Walked around in there this weekend a little bit, looks like they are gonna be doing some logging in the PRSF at the end of Old Vanderbilt, I'm gonna have to explore that area more this winter with the sled

Been there, done that! Thats exactly why my next bike will be a dual sport.

We own the cabin on Swartz trail right off of the Clute road. Comes in off of Centerline. We've always ridden back there, quads, sleds, dirtbikes, cars/trucks, everything. I've been riding there since my mom was pregnant with me and i don't plan to stop regardless of the rules. We used to own 125 acres and we sold off 100 of them. My grandpa was ticketed at 1AM by a DNR officer doing 50mph without her lights on. The ticket was for shining deer with headlights, when clearly he was coming back to our cabin.

Thats sucks

According to the Natural Resources Commission Agenda for their next meeting the DNR will be amending the PRC Concept of Management to restrict snowmobiles in the PRC. Sleds will be restricted to county roads and those forest roads open to snowmobiles according to the PRC map (I've not found this map yet).

I have maps that show which roads are county roads in the PRC, holler if you want a copy (PDF).

I'll take a copy

PDF file available here: http://www.vvmapping.com/public/VVMap_Pigeon_River_Map.pdf

Wow there aren't as many "legal" roads to ride as I thought, thanks for the map

I'm sure this is a big duh for most readers but....the MSA should have membership from 100% of the state riders. Encroachment of our rights will continue to come from better organized and funded adversaries. While the Pigeon River Forrest might or may not be a good example of adversarial pressure, we need a united effort and voice. We came painfully close to losing our groomed trails this year.

I have a cabin in the PRSF. I will write immediately! Thanks for the heads up.

The PRCA and the NRC

On November 7th., your newsletter editor also dodged some winter-like weather by driving down to Lansing to represent the Association at the Natural Resources Commission (NRC) meeting held on Nov. 8th. At stake at this particular meeting was the final presentation of what was intended to be the final revision of updated Concept of Management (COM) for the Pigeon River Country Forest for some years to come. Although the actual decision to implement the document is that of the DNR Director (Rebecca Humphries) to make, it is considered essential that the NCR be on board. Accordingly, a “Power-Point” introduction to the COM was presented, followed by a commentary by the Director who stressed the following points.

First, it was stressed that the revised plan must be enforceable and realistic, which necessarily involves both clarity and flexibility.

Second, the Director mentioned that changes had been made in the section of the COM concerned with forest management. Additional attention has been given to northern hardwood and lowland conifer management.

Third, the Director spent a considerable amount of time commenting on the Recreation and Law Enforcement section of the revised COM. She stressed the need for more law enforcement, as well as the importance of the specific criteria listed in the plan that are meant to guide the Forest Manager in making decisions regarding recreational activities. The criteria (eight) are listed as follows.



“The activity or use should…

…have a low impact, leaving a minimal footprint on the PRC.

…not be detrimental to sustaining wildlife populations.

…not create noise that interrupts the solitude of the PRC.

…not concentrate larger groups of people and/or vehicles.

…not create the likelihood of user conflicts.

…not lead to more facilities or infrastructures.

…not degrade or be inconsistent with the wild character of the PRC.

…be associated with experiencing the wild character of the PRC.”



With these guiding criteria in mind, the Director specifically pointed out that no cross-country snowmobile travel will be permitted on the lands comprising the PRCF. Other than for forest management tasks, snowmoblies will be permitted only on the county roads (i.e., county right-of-ways) and on those forest trails open to motorized vehicles.

No commercial livery use of the Forest will be permitted.

Likewise, no cross-country horseback riding will be permitted. Horses will be restricted to the same routes as snowmobiles, plus the north extension of the Shore-to-Shore Riding & Hiking Trail. Camping with horses will be permitted only at the two campgrounds established specifically for that purpose (those at Elk Hill and Johnson’s Crossing). The fifteen small “dispersed” horse-camping sites will be closed. Opening up of any new horse campsites will depend on additional acquisition of forest land.

Similarly. bicycle-riding will be restricted to the same roadways, and, for the present, to the High Country Pathway. However, the Director pointed out that these closures are to be postponed until a new land-use order is prepared and put into effect. This includes a reworking of the Vehicle Access plan

for the PRCF.

While the Director admitted that this portion of the revised COM has proved to be the most controversial, she is determined to go ahead with the plan in the face of the fact that the Pigeon River Country Forest is being “loved to death” and that while she realized that there are bound to be objections from certain groups of users. But she reminded the audience that the bulk of the lands that make up the Forest was purchased with funds supplied by hunting and fishing licences, and that other recreational uses which interfere with those activities need to be especially controlled.

Almost needless to say, it was the announcement of the above restrictions that has drawn the most comments, objections, and even outright protests. And it was for this reason that the Association’s board need to be represented before the NRC, especially when it seemed that these specific restrictions had been added to the final version of the revised COM only few days before the Pigeon River Country Advisory Council meeting on October 19th. giving the Council members no time to read the final draft and to discuss the changes that had been made.

Not unexpectedly, during the public comment portion of the NRC meeting, late in the afternoon, many protests were voiced by various members of the horseback riding groups, both by individuals and by representatives of their various organizations. Issues of safety, especially as involving horses and motor vehicles, were particularly raised.

Likewise, several members of the Michigan Mountain Bike Association spoke. This group especially stressed the considerable amount of time that they have spent over the years, especially maintaining the eleven-some miles of the Shingle Mill Pathway, on which (with the exception of the portion that is also part of the High Country Pathway) they are, according to the decision announced by the Director, forbidden to ride.

However, it should be noted that no members of the snowmobiling fraternity spoke up. It may be, that after several Advisory Council rebuffs, that they have given up on their repeated attempts to have a special snowmobile route established for them across the PRCF. If so, we must commend them for their having finally realized that the PRCF is special place and that keeping it wild doesn’t mean seeing how fast one can go while traveling through the woods.

It was with all this in mind that your PRCA representative finally had his say, first pointing out the role that the Association has played from the beginning of the establishment of the Forest, our involvement in the rewriting of the COM, and urging, that after this rewriting process has taken three years, that the revised COM be finally approved and implemented. However, I also suggested that, to the two sentences restricting horseback and bicycle usage to the county roads and the forest vehicle access roads and to the two trails or pathways specifically mentioned, that the following phrase be added; “and to those trails that might be designated by the DNR Director in consultation with the PRCF Manager and the PRC Advisory Council.” In other words, we were asking for the Director’s promise of further discussion to be put in writing as part of the revised COM. As to how it finally turned out, you can compare this with the finalized document linked to the DNR website at www.michigan.gov/dnr or to the link to it on our website at www.PigeonRiverCountryForest.org

However, a letter from Forestry Director Lynne Boyd that accompanies the final version of the revised COM explains how “a workgroup will be formed to conduct a more in-depth review of the current recreational uses within the PRC” and to “examine various recreational uses and identify potential conflicts and opportunities based on the guiding principles established in the 2007 update.” Those interested in participating in such a workgroup should send an email to www.dnr-2007prc@michigan.gov or notify the Department by writing the Department of Natural Resources, PO Box 30452, Lansing MI 48909-7952, and should be marked Attn: Pigeon River Country Recreation Workgroup. (Report by R W Kropf)



Advisory Council Matters

As mentioned above, the Advisory Council held its final regularly scheduled meeting of the year on October 19, just two days after the final draft of the revised Concept of Management that was to be taken before the Natural Resources Commission had been posted on the DNR website. The Advisory Council chairman, who was also on the COM steering committee, was able to report that most, but not all, of the changes recommended by the Advisory Council had been included, but also alerted the Council members that other changes had been made as well. However, without prior notification of these changes, there was little or no chance to review them. Concern was expressed that the Advisory Council be represented at the NRC meeting on November 8th.

Mike Brown, standing in for Oil & Gas Committee chairman Ken Glasser, briefed the Council on the latest developments especially regarding Aurora Energy and the Blue Lakes tract, plus CO2 underground sequestration experiments in the southern part of the Forest.

Among the usual ex-officio reports to the Council, the matter of further State Forest campground closings was mentioned, due to the current State budget crunch. However, no specifics were given regarding the PRCF, which has already seen the closing of the campground at the bridge over the Pigeon River on Sturgeon Valley Rd. A report was given on the completion of the “Tin Bridge” replacement over the Pigeon River near the Cornwall Flooding on Grass Lake Rd.

Toward the end of the meeting, nominations were taken for next year’s Council officers. Council meeting dates for 2008 were set for January 18th., April 11th., July 25th. and October 17th. The meetings are held at the PRCF Headquarters and Information Building in the middle of the forest on Twin Lakes Rd. They begin promptly at 6:30 pm and generally end at 10:30 pm. The public is invited to attend. Comments from the public are generally taken soon after the meeting starts. We urge PRCA members to attend and voice their concerns.

Re. Books and Maps

We are pleased to announce that the new edition of Dale Franz’s book, The Pigeon River Country: A Michigan Forest, was released by the University of Michigan Press for distribution on November 27th. this was a couple of weeks later than had been originally scheduled when we began accepting orders for the book following our last newsletter.

Likewise, the printing of the new combined High Country Pathway and Pigeon River Country topographic map also fell behind schedule, this time because of last minute changes to the designated Forest boundaries and usage rule in the final version of the revised Concept of Management for the PRCF. The maps were made available us only on November 30th.

We are sorry for these delays, but if you have already ordered the book, or map, or both, your order should be in the mail by the time you receive this newsletter.

This topic really hits close to home. I have spent ALOT of time in the pigeon. What really pisses me off is the horse traffic out there. I'm sorry but a responsible rider on a quad will do less damage than a horse. Don't believe me? Try getting out of that truck next time your out there and take a walk. When these cowboy and cowgirl wannabe's climb hills on their horses the horses tear the ever loving shit out of hill sides. When you look at the west forest (that allows ATV traffic) vs the pigeon I really don't see that big of a difference. Now when your talking snowmobiling, We should have always had a groomed trail through the pigeon going over to say Atlanta. The Michigan DNR is the biggest group of assholes ever. I know about 50% of the pigeon river state forest like it was my backyard. I would love to see things handled a little differently out there but I don't think they will ever give us more priveledges out there.

From the Gaylord Herald Times Website:

GAYLORD — An estimated 400 people attended Saturday’s Michigan Natural Resources Rally, mostly expressing concerns regarding government natural resource cuts.

Hosted by Antrim Conservation District and various other sportsmen and conservation groups, the rally focused on the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) regarding finances and administrative management services.

According to Heidi Lang, Antrim Conservation District soil erosion officer who was one of the hosts, mostly “horse people” attended the standing-room-only forum.

Speakers discussed the DNR closing campsites and trails for horses and closing trails for hikers.

“They’re using the gates that these people paid for to lock them out,” Lang contended.

“That’s exactly right,” said Kathy Biernacki, a member of the Otsego County Mounted Division who was at the meeting.

According to a Natural Resources Commission (NRC) news release, a proposed land use order will be amended to address the public’s use of the Pigeon River Country State Forest at tomorrow’s, NRC meeting in Lansing.

The order, which will be reviewed for information only, will discuss how multiple users can enjoy recreation in the 118,000-acre state forest tract. (See related story.)

According to the release, the order will address:

• camping with horses, other riding or pack animals;

• trail riding with horses, other riding or pack animals; and,

• bicycling.

Eric Isaacson of Grayling, Northern Chapter of the Michigan Mountain Biking Association president was an important part of the decision making for the land use order.

According to Isaacson, representatives from user groups, mountain bicyclists, equestrians, biologists, naturalists, a large cross reference of people, spent two weeks working with the DNR mapping and figuring out these restricted areas.

A facilitator from Michigan State University, organized the 16-18 attendees of the Pigeon River Country work group.

“The Pigeon River Forest is the most unique piece of state-owned property in the country,” said Isaacson. “We have to be very careful of where users can go.”

According to Isaacson, a couple of campgrounds were closed for budgetary reasons. He believes there was no cause for Saturday’s rally, which he did not attend.

“Normally you have a handful of people who ruin it for everybody,” he said.

Though Isaacson hasn’t always agreed with decisions made by the DNR, he’s pleased with the updated land use order.

“This time I think they (DNR) really listened to the user groups,” he said.

However, Lang contested, when the DNR closed the Pinney Bridge State Campground in Jordan River, North Country Trail Association offered to completely maintain the campsite, Lang maintained.

“They (DNR) said no,” she said.

Lang doesn’t blame the field personnel for the changes; she holds the upper echelon for these “policies and procedures.”

“We don’t have adequate field staff,” said Lang.

Following the meeting, the Antrim Conservation District has been inundated with telephone calls from concerned citizens asking “What’s next?” she said.

“People are pretty concerned, pretty upset,” said Lang. “We’re thinking of doing a meeting in Lansing, probably soon.”

Though she’s not looking for 1,000 people to rally in Lansing, Lang said the next step is to gather everyone together — “a dozen people who represent all of the groups.”

“We need the people in Lansing to understand that we need change,” she said. “Our natural resources depend on it.”

Though the majority in attendance at Saturday’s meeting were citizens with interest in horses, Biernacki said she felt like a lot of their questions went unanswered.

“There was nothing really definite set,” she said. “Have they shut down the trails? Are they going to shut down the trails? Who do we contact?”

Biernacki was pleased with the turnout of horse riders.

Contact Jil Schult at 748-4518 or jil@gaylordheraldtimes.com.

Natural Resources Commission to review Pigeon River plan

LANSING — A proposed land use order will be amended to address the public’s use of the Pigeon River Country State Forest at Thursday’s Natural Resources Commission meeting in Lansing. The order will discuss how multiple users can enjoy recreation in the 118,000-acre state forest tract in northeast lower Michigan, while protecting the wild character of the Pigeon River Country.

The order will be considered for action by Department of Natural Resources (DNR) Director Rebecca Humphries at the May meeting of the NRC.

“I recently approved the Pigeon River Country State Forest concept of management that attempts to accommodate multiple users and their interests, while protecting the wild beauty of the area,” said Humphries. “This concept is a management framework for current and future recreation in the Pigeon River Country, and is the result of a variety of user groups who worked with us to resolve concerns. I appreciate the efforts of all these groups.”

The land use order, which will be reviewed for information only at the April NRC meeting, addresses three specific recreational aspects of the Pigeon River Country State Forest: camping with horses, other riding or pack animals; trail riding with horses, other riding or pack animals; and bicycling. (See related story.)

“These regulations are necessary so that multiple recreational users can enjoy the Pigeon River Country State Forest with minimal conflict,” Humphries said. “They are also necessary to protect the wild character of the area, and for the DNR to remain in compliance with federal grant fund requirements associated with the acquisition and management of the Pigeon River Country.”

Humphries said it is important to note that recreational activities can still be enjoyed in the Pigeon River Country, but that they will be restricted to certain areas.

“We want to accommodate the users who have enjoyed this area, and who have helped through volunteer efforts to maintain it,” Humphries said. “But we also wanted to make sure that the Pigeon River Country remains the ‘Big Wild’ for recreational activities that have been enjoyed for decades, such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, snowmobiling, horseback riding and bicycling. This state forest area belongs to the public, and we are charged with best managing it for multiple public recreational uses.”

For more information on the proposed land use order, visit NRC section of the DNR’s Web site at

www.michigan.gov/nrc.

All materials for the April 10 meeting, including the proposed land use order, are available in the agenda for the meeting.

Proposed restrictions:

• Camping with horses or other riding or pack animals will be restricted under the land use orders to the Elk Hill Equestrian State Forest Campground and Trail Camp, and Johnson’s Crossing Trail Camp.

• Trail riding with horses, other riding or pack animals will be restricted to certain roads and pathways. A person riding or leading a horse, other riding animal or pack animal will be restricted to the north spur of the Shore to Shore Riding-Hiking Trail; a county road; a forest road designated and illustrated as open on the Pigeon River Country State Forest access map; or a service trail road posted open by the DNR, providing over 280 miles of riding opportunities.

• Bicycling in the Pigeon River Country will be restricted to the High Country Pathway, the Shingle Mill Pathway and the Pickerel Lake Pathway; a county road; a state forest road designated and illustrated as open on the Pigeon River Country State Forest access map, providing 300 miles for bicycling.

Kinda got an attitude, eh?

I ride 3000 to 4000 miles per year. Michigan has over 6000 miles of trails plus a whole UP to play in. Don't you think the Elk deserve a few square miles to live in without adding stress to an already stressful existence?
Rumor has it that opening up the dinosaur area to the excessively loud Arctic Cats caused there extinction!

I agree with that, but its not about the Elk, its the presrevation of a "nature area" so that more (all) people can enjoy it,by restricting acess to it to all but a few that gets me.Who the hell is going to HIKE or WALK several miles into an area where the trails are very primitive or barely recognizable to "enjoy" it?

EXACTLY RIGHT! The "Big Wild". This Mindy Koch is just surfacing everywhere in "OUR" world. Some of the things she has spouted off have absolutely ZERO foundation. The claim of weed seeds in the horse dung introducing non-native weeds into pigeon river took the cake for me. This is a federal forest land issue out west, the rangers run around checking for certified hay products for the horses and fine the hell out of the ranchers if they even drive through an area, just pasing through, with a horse trailer and hay. I guess birds dont drop weed seeds while in flight eh? The elk and deer? Canines?

Bottom line, it's not just pigeon river it's all state land. The day is coming, I dont know when, but it's coming, where ALL state land is going to be off limits except for foot travel, and the activity is going to be closely regulated.

What do they plan to do when one of these areas catches fire, and they have eliminated forest roads and pathways to get machinery into fight the blazes? What if a plane goes down? Search and rescue here in Michigan shoud not be a nightmare. Yes, it's nice to have the remote wilderness, but Mindy needs to get a grip. The Big Wild? I think the first step would be to get her nose out of it.

I have heard people bitchin about the horses up there. One referred to it as a F#*!@& circus. Well, sorry, I am not going to slam on folks enjoying our natural resources while on horseback. GET REAL! As far as the Elk? Well, I have hunted Elk out west, and after that I quit drawing for Michigan Elk Permits. It might as well be a canned hunt, and while some folks utilize hunting preserves, it's just not for me. Admittedly, I utilize pheasant preserves for hunting because our useless DNR doesnt have the brains to re-establish pheasants here. I have figured out you cannot talk to them, THEY have all the answers, THEY have tried it and failed, it's just not feasable here in Michigan. Well BULLSHIT! There is a big agenda to wipe out the deer herd in Michigan. WHY??? Insurance companies, farmers, anti-hunters, Ted Turner, and I suspect by frustrating Michigan out of hunting, it takes away an NRA stronghold. Look down the road folks.

What to do?

Take the time to go to the NRC meetings. More and more folks are starting to attend these meetings bringing up valid points of opposition to the DNR's master plan. Talk is the NRC meetings used to be a quick day, and were making it long for them, and it's gettin to em. Well, I say pour it on!

MSA is holding a meeting this weekend in Mackinaw City, check out their webpage for the details. I like the quote they put up...."THE WORLD IS RUN BY THOSE WHO SHOW UP". Couldnt have been said any better!

Write letters to your state reps and senators. The letters DO get something done. An example, I contacted a state rep regarding pigeon river a couple weeks ago. He was "blindsided" with what I told him about, and was somewhat doubtful, to the point he had his assistant research some of my claims, and then had the assistant get back to me, advising he contacted the DNR and they denied what I mentioned. So I sent him DNR's document, specifying the pages to scrutinize. His reply was essentially, of shock, acknowledging my concerns were correct, and obviously the DNR was trying to slip one through, thanking me for bringing it to their attention. Now I believe, this was suppose to be a done deal for pigeon river at the last NRC meeting, and now there are delays, and likely adjustments favorable to us are in the works. TRUST ME, LETTERS AND CALLS do work, dont take it for granted! Oh, the rep for that area had advised that his office had only received 3 or 4 contacts regarding pigeon river, however, the meeting scheduled for Gaylord a week ago was anticipated to generate more user/constituency contacts regarding this issue. And it did! What would have happened if there was no meeting?

We have to learn to police ourselves. Horses, atv's, snowmobiles, bird watchers, bicyclists, should stay out during deer and elk hunting season, just for the safety factor. ATV's gotta learn to quit tearing up the landscape, (yeah, I know the horses, many oppose atv's and dont oppose horses, use your head), Snowmobiles need to keep it quiet and stay off private property, and quit leaving your blown belt parts, spark plugs and boxes, water bottles, skoal cans, cigarette packs, candy wrappers and other trash in the woods, damn that's just plain aggravating. TREAD LIGHTLY. Leave it better than you found it.

People can rag on the horses all they want,BUT, they dont understand what they dont ride. Horses,and especially Mules will almost never follow in the tracks of the animal ahead of them,even on a trail.When they are rode cross country,and up or down hill, they will NEVER follow.They are smart enough to know that if the animal in front of them trips,falls,stops,or whatever,they will suffer the same fate,or at the least have to stop,which they do not do up or down hill.They dont blow belts,shit oil bottles,and you cant pop open a beer on most horses because they will spook at the "whosh",trust me on that one,been there and dun it (only once) !There are a whole lot more elk and deer climbing those hills, and shitting seeds than horses.Also take into account that most horse rides are only 5 to 10 miles a day. On the other hand wheeled vehicles almost ALWAYS follow the tracks in front,thus creating the "chutes" that we see everywhere.We all know what happens when a sled cuts thru the snow cover climbing a hill,and there again, its follow the leader.Mountain bikers ?, I dont think Ive ever seen one of those off trail.
Now all that said,I enjoy rideing all 3,but not during hunting season!We dont take the mules out even on our own property during deer season,mostly because two sides of it are bounderied by state land,and there are a lot of trigger happy hunters out there.We dont sign trails once deer season starts either,mostly out of respect,which sadly,most people dont seem to care about anymore.
The meeting in Gaylord was standing room only,and I'd guess 95% horse people,because horse and mountain bikes were all that was discussed,didnt see any MSA or ORV groups,I guess they dont care as much as they talk!

My Dad's best friend lives near Onaway...former hunter, just enjoys the out of doors and living up there now. HE NEVER HEARD A THING about the meeting in Gaylord. It's damn sad in my book that snowmobilers and orv were not there, especially with Sheltrown's bill coming up this week.

We ALL, that utilize the out of doors had better wake up, shake hands, and ride together, or we are screwed. I notice the under 40 crowd just doesnt seem to be in sync with this picture. So anybody that knows THAT generation, grab em by their body pearcings, and drag em out of the closet, or whatever environment they lurk in, and wake em up! Technically, this is their future I have been wearing my fingers to nubbins for!

I dont want to hear no lame bullshit about nobody asked me to do it either. I am asking YOU to get off your ass, quit making excuses, put down your video games, ipods, and show you have some brains, and the ability to say something without sounding like a burnout or a valley girl, or answering a question with HUH? or WHAT?. Pull up your pants and run with the big dogs kids. Put that knowitall attitude to work and show us what you got. Be at the MSA meeting this weekend.

Does this go for privately owned property back in the forest?

No,they cant dictate what you can/cant do on your own property,but they can control or limit acess to your property because there are no easments across state land for egress.

i think its time for a helicopter...

Is this the current document that explains the proposal to change the future of PRC?
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Conc...07_216611_7.pdf