Ok guys here i go, i have just read through 2 posts about conversions and thats all this forum is now, so i am going to put in my .02 on what you need to do to make them work.

First- the chassis
- depeneding on the sled year you may need to relocate the rear skid to adjust track attack angle. (2005 model)
- The shocks should be revalved softer and along with that come springs, depending on rider weight and use, pick the lbs for you.( you can ride it without,but its like riding a log) The WE shocks could also use some attention to the internal components as in useing some differnt seals and slight moding of the shaft.
- Extra wheels, you will definitly need extra wheels on the skid if you plan on trail riding the sled, 2 will do but 4 is better. the hardware can all be found polaris parts fiches.
- Spindles, i would reccommend brad (1200psi) power addiction spindles mainly because of workmanship these things are works of art, and very functional. He makes them in several differnt sizes now, the most popluar for trails is the 2'' drop. You can cut and weld the stock spindles.
- Skis, the stock skis with good carbide work well, i am running slp powder pros with 6 shapers and this makes the sled handle a lot more like a trail sled.
- Oil lite bearings and bushings, The front a-arm bushings on the sled need to be maintained and serviced regularly if you want the front suspension to function properly. There have been serveral different fixes for this to elongate the service interval. 1. drill all arm pivots,weld on a small boss and then tap and install grease fittings. 2. (faster fix) same idea as the first one. drill the the a-arms and use a pin stlye grease head and inject them this way. Either one you choose, grease them regualry. This process should be repeated on the rear suspension pivots.
- Driveshaft and Jackshaft bearings. These bearings should be maintained and serviced regulary. To elongate the interval you can drill a small hole similiar to the 2end fix for the a arms and use the needle head to inject in the needle port of the bearings.

Second- motor
- Stock, 600 VES
- Stock 440 mill If you choose to run this motor serveral issues must be addressed.
- Center crank bearing. This is the most common failure on the site and the trail. The fix for the problem comes in 2 methods. 1. oil injection- with oil injection you will need to get the pump, cable and hoses. This is an relitivley easy fix but pricey. Then comes the PTO grease zerk. some leave it alone, and that works just fine. I have seen one mod where he drilled out the zerk threads and installed a check valve to oil the pto bearing this way. If this route is not taken a simple "T" in the oil lines to the center crank bearing will work. Oil tanks are also a well spoken about topic for these sleds. the most popular tank is the US Plastics tank that with a bracket can be easily mounted. Another option is an older indy xcr tank that with an easy bracket can work well. The fusion has also been installed but may not be the best route. 2end fix more commonly known as the rippered fix. With this fix no oil injection is nessecary. In this fix you will need to drill out a second oil passage for the crank bearings, this allows more oil to the crank. PM Ripperd with more ?'s. With oil injection you will need to throttle cable from a 01 440 (for the oil cable)
- 600 VES This motor is a reliable choice
- First the motor needs to be shimmed to allow the carbs to clear the jackshaft. This is accomplished by using pro x carb manifold boots, and placeing a 3/4" spacer between the motor strap and the motor itself (longer bolts needed). Along with the spacer a 1/4" shim needs to be placed between the motor mount and the motor strap. When doing the motor install you will need to remove the PTO ehxaust valve and install it once the motor is in the chassis. With the motor sitting higher the PTO spark plug cap may not fit, to fix you will need to notch the steering hoop to allow clearance. The stock 440 torque will work on this motor. The stock belt will also work with set up. The next step is a choice of the owner, whether to run a thermostat or not. Many guys on here have removed the T stat and blocked off the inlet in the head. This set up works!
if you choose to run a T stat you will need to get a coolent bottle with a bypass hole. A rev tank works well because of the head and angle.
- Air box, Electronics, Clutching and Gearing.
- The stock 440 air box will work. you will need to get your hands on a set of 600 air box carb boots. The jetting of the carbs should be set at stock and then adjusted accordinly.
- The wire harness from the 440 will work with the 600. The only wiring needed is the section from the CDI to motor. If you choose to have the 440 cdi remapped to a different curve then this will not be needed. I dont no if anyone has done this (remap) in my opinion the 600 stock cdi is the best choice.
- The stock clutch will work with the 600. There are many different set ups, my favorite is 10-61 weights (ground down) alomond blue spring, Delerin washers in the secondary, and the stock secondary guts. with the newer 321114 belt.
- Gearing is endless a popular set up is 22/43 with stock chain.
Pipe
- Ah yes the pipe. With the 600 VES a 600 y pipe is needed. A simple mod to the stock system will allow for trouble free miles (PM AKprox pilot, he does this and can answer any question)
- Another choice is a pipe being cut and welded to fit, In my case i had a 600 VES pipe and Dynoport can fit which works.
- As of now there is no stock pipe that fits without modification.
Fuel tank(s)[b]
-NEW polaris tank (about 8.2 gallons)
- Wicked tank (8 gallons)
- The wicked tank fits very well and installs in minutes.
[b]600 HO
- This motor is the easiest swap.
- No shims needed!
- Same pipe situation as the 600 VES
- Similiar clutching and gearing set up
- Same Thermostat issue as 600 VES

This is my snyopsis of the conversion, i own a 06 iq with a 600 ves in it and by far the most fun i have had on a sled.
I am sure i have left something out so feel free to add.

Matt

Great Write Up Matty.

You covered just about everything and pretty much summed it up.

Only one problem I see. We don't want to Elongate or service interval on the bearings we want to Prolong or extend the service interval.....HaHa....I got ya.

Very good, now watch this excellent thread get burried by tomorrow and we will be back to answering every question as they pop up.

Its all fun.

And don't you guys have snow down in America now a days.....you should be out riding.

AkRacing

elongate, prolong they both have long in them so it works haha. yea Tom you probably saw my town on tv, about 10 feet of snow here (Oswego,NY) nothing like being at college and having the sled with ya.




And about the questions i give it till tonight. All good information though.

Sorry boys but I got through some of that and my mind was a spinning. I am considering, trading my M6 for an 06 iq. Now can I slap low comp domes on this puppy and ride it with pre mix till the cows come home or am I going to be concerned about some crank bearing stuff. Do I need to up the size of the cooler or are the stock ones fine. I know I will need a bigger tank, but it sounds to me like converted over to trail riding this puppy is a little more then I thought. I got a really foolish question but does the dragon ignition thing work with low comp domes. I been trying to read as much as I can in here but haven't been able to dulve into as much of it as I was hoping as I am still not 100% sure if this is a good idea. I really liked it when i test rode it but that was with HC domes. Anyway am I getting in over my head.

thanks

NewfieCat

just running pre mix for trails will most likly lead to crank bearing failure, your best bet is to choose between the 2 options stated above and go from there. with the information on this forum and all the guys on here you have nothing to worry about. i would reccomend getting the carb needles from a 01 440, this removes the lean spot in the throttle



matt

nice information. having watched this forum for quite a while ive been waiting for someone to do a writeup and compile all this information together. isnt there a way you can sticky a post to the top or something? that would really help keep this good information available since searching for specific things can be tricky. just my thoughts.

Nice write up Matt. Now you realize that you are not going to be able to hang out with Tom anymore cuz his longwindedness has obviously rubbed off on you!!!! ha-ha. It would be nice to "sticky" this post to the top, to keep everyone from asking the same questions over and over again. Maybe a little help from the moderator???

Newfie - Unless you're racing an IQ, I would just disconnect the dragon button. If not, you're just asking for trouble. I'm pretty sure that anyone can trail convert these IQ's. Any questions are generally answered by several different guys on here. This is my second year of working on mine. Pay attention to how you take things apart, they go back the same way. However, these things REQUIRE A LOT OF TIME to get ready for trail use. If that's not your idea of fun, then you might want to choose a different sled. But in my opinion, this is the best sled I've owned!! Also, the stock cooler is enough for my 600 ho that I have.

haha yea Kerry this will most likly be my one and only long winded post, nothing like wasting some time between classes at college. Im with Kerry on disconnecting the dragon button due to the fact if you dont your chances of eating reed petals is greatly increased.

Matt

great sum up by mattys, this should really be pinned in this forum , the same goes for the WE shock info.. it can be a bitch to search for info, especially if you are a greenhorn... a moderator could possibly pinn some kind of info on this with Akiqpilot´s help and all other iq440 pro´s on this site..

Keep it up top!!

yup

ttt

good stuff dudes...awesome work

will put my setup up here as well...05 iq 800 open mod snowcross sled made trailable

- C&A XT skis with polaris mount kit with woodys race carbides
- de-stud stock track
- Powdercoated A-Arms white
- Light Kit
- White Powermadd guards with polaris mount kit
- Rox Sledtreds
- 07 IQ race flap
- Trail Idler Wheel Kit
- Spindles Cut 2"
- Oil pump and lines
- oil bottle
- 2003 800 vertical escape throttle cable
- Racepac Avenger 1 with probes
- 23/43 gearing
- (2) 2.5"slp flowrites, exhaust vent for clutches
- Wikid racin 8 gallon tank


- Engine Tech-Server Racing custom head (cut for my mods and 91 octane safe)
- Head Gaskets
- V Force 3 reeds
- SLP race pipes with engine tech ½" manifold spacers
- K&N filters with snowcharger prefilters
- 2005 Pro-5 Racing Remapped CDI
- 2005 XC 800 carb needles
- 2003 RMK 800 intermediate wiring harness (so i can use the tps)
- WMS/TCP Engine Base Plate
- holtzman ATACC
- billet pull chord handle
-using full snowcross 110 race fuel clutching setup (8000 rpm)

Great job Matty and yes AKPILOT I will have my ??????????????????????? soon. You guys are the best............

what does track "attack angle " mean??

Thanks Matty.
I followed your advice/instructions on a 600ves upgrade on an 05 IQ. It worked out mint except for the pipe. I'm still trying to get that figured out. Right now I'm running the 600 Y and the 440 pipe and can. The sled runs great to about 3/4 throttle and then falls on it's face. Hafta get the pipe figured out. This engine rocked when it was nestled in the XCSP.

One note: When I used the the Pro-X carb boots I had carb interference with one carb boot screw on each side. I had to do a little grinding on each carb and I replaced the two hex head screws with flat head screws. Problem solved.

John

thanks bud, as for the pipe i can put you in contact who fitted mine, he did a decent job and my sled runs great.



Matt

mind if i ask what it cost????

ya. i wouldnt mind knowing some options on what 2 do with the pipe.. who did you get to have your pipe fitted?

it was about 350 to have it fitted and the guys name is brad, you can get in touch with him on snowest his name is prox1200, tell him matt sent you

thanks!!

brad?? is he with power addiction there?? if so than half of my dads sled is from him

How much have you guys put in to the sled trail converting it minus the cost of the sled?

no thats another brad not power addiction brad

pin ttt????

PIN TTT

how much work is it to mod the stock seat to get the new big tank to fit now that they have the iq 600 rr u can proly just buy parts fr4om that like the seat and the tank

uhm basically probly just take foam out of under side of seat, no speacial mods for the big tank

no mods, needed

can you replace the plastic on the inside of the seats.. mine is cracked in a million places

I have a buddy who is looking into buying a 05 440 and we were just wondering *(and correct me if I am wrong)* but isnt the 600HO crankcase based off the 440? and I was also told that the 00-05 600 jugs are the same as the new 600HOs, How much would it take to convert this to a 600 HO beings he has a 02 600 edge donor sled??


Thanks for the help guys

ok guys here a little more info, many have been asking about this

440 to 600
it is possible to utilize thr current 440 crank and case asm. and run 600 pistons and cyls.
to have this set up you need to do the following
-machine the upper case to accept the 600 piston
-machine off i belive .040" (not 100% sure) either the upper case or the cyclinders
i would reccomend the cyclinders because machining off the upper case makes the reed port awfully thin on material.
- all of the reccomendations for oil injection for the crank is the same.
- you need to have the cdi reprogrammed
- you can run the stator and flywheel from the 440
- you should also run a 600 exhaust system

isnt the stroke shorter on the 440 crank and shorter connecting rods? i assume the machining on the jugs is to compinsate for the shorter rods, but shorter stroke X bore doesnt = 600 cc's anymore.

The 440 has the same stroke as the 600, but the cranks have some other differences. If you go back to '00 or so, the 440, 500 and 600 all used the same crankshaft. As the 440 became more strictly "race oriented", there gradually became more and more differences from the "consumer" small block motors.

I'd like to confirm what others here are saying.

The 440 and 600 Small Block motors have the same stroke, even the earlier 440's and the 600HO have the same stroke. A 440 as early as '98 has the same stroke as an '07 600HO. During several model years from '98 to '07 the 440 shared the same crankshaft as other motors including the 440 and 550 Fan motors. The 440 and 600 never shared the same exact crankshaft. '04 through '07 440's share the same crank shaft.

The 440 has shorter connecting rods than the 600 SB, approximately 2.5mm shorter.

600HO and 600VES cylinders are not the same as each other, they are simular but not the same. The main difference is the HO Cyl has a wider Exhaust Valve Guillotine, a different transfer port design and different Cylinder Skirt design. I don't think it's possible to interchange an HO Cyl with a VES Cyl because of the different Cyl Skirt but with some modification it may work, its not something I have ever tried.

With proper machining 600 Cylinders (both HO and VES) will bolt on to a 440 case and work. The key is Proper Machining. Most Performance Shops do the machine work to the top of the case, that way if you damage a Cyl any stock 600 CYL will bolt on with no machining needed. The big shops like Carls Cycle, Larry Rugland MotorSports, Hot-to-Go, The Crank Shop, etc. have performed the 440 to 600 conversions many times and are very experienced at how much material to machine off the top of the upper case. The key is indexing the top of the piston to the bottom of the exhaust port for proper port timing. Approximately .100" needs to be removed from the upper case for proper port timing but every shop has their preferred specification so this varries from one shop to the next. Some shops take off more than .100" and some take off less.

Keep in mind when .100" is removed from the upper case the Exhaust port is lowered esentially .100" and a stock 600 exhaust pipe no longer fits perfectly.

When performed by one of the top engine builders a 440 to 600 converted motor can make lots of HP. Those shops have Dynos and the ability to have the CDI's reprogrammed, some even utilize the Variable Timing Selector Switch and the Solenoid Controlled Exhaust Valves for precise timing and EV control.

The biggest downfall to a 440 to 600 conversion is COST. This is usually not the cheapest way to get a 600 motor in your 440 chassis. By the time you have bought all the 600 Parts and paid for the machining you could have easily bought a used 600 motor in great condition.

ok, its the rods that i was thinking of. so a guy could use the crank and have 600 rods put on it when it was split apart for new bearings and truing.

I figured someone would question it, but I did check before I said anything: The '98-'00 440 motors show the same crankshaft assembly as the 500/600 up through '01 according to my part number cross-references. The 440's got a different part number from the consumer stuff starting in '01 and were unique from that point forward. If someone can verify otherwise, please let me know. I want to be sure I know what parts can fit which motors.

I see exactly what you are talking about Orville. That crank Kit is Part # 2201234 and seems to fit 440 and 600 motors for a few years up through 2002. Looks like it was '01 when they put the shorter Con Rods on the crank for the 440, thats when the 440 and the other motors do not share the same Part # for the crank.

I am only going by part # on the Polaris Parts Browser page. I didn't start buying 440's till 2002.

440 to 600VES conversion. Still tripping over the pipe. I'm using the stock VES manifold, stock 440 pipe and can.
I can cut, weld, machine whatever it takes to make the pipe work. I just don't know exactly what has to be done to the pipe 440 pipe to make it work.
Thanks for any and all help.

Ther is also the option of using the 10.5 gallon REV tank.

Great info - Thanks to AkIQPilot , Mattys4888 and others for all the info - I am doing a 440 IQ conversion to a VES 600 and am struggling with the pipe - I bought a set of the 600 polaris race dept pipes, and just dont really like the way they fit - I believe the problem is that they are for the 600 HO - I could make them work, but there is not a lot of clearance between the body panels - Or am I doing something wrong? Does anyone have any suggestions?

I think I will do the mod to the stock pipe as discussed - I will use the 1.50" ID tubing, and it looks like the stinger with get lengthened by 1 inch - Is this OK? How critical is this dimension?

Also, I can get the plug wire on the PTO plug, but it's real close - How close is too close? Does the engine torque over and cause problems?

Thanks again - this has been very helpful

BTW - I have a new set of the twin 600 mod pipes for sale - I have $500.00 in them and would sell them at a loss - any takers?

the pipes do fit close to the plastics and body panels

can you use the stock 440 fuel pump with the 600 ves engine?

Yes. You just need to tee the 2 lines into 1.

guys with 600 ho, how did you hook up your exhaust valve motor/pump to the wiring? i dont see a plug in with my 440 wiring...what needs to be changed to work or whats the way to hook this up? i know i have to use the 600ho CDI wiring, and everything there plugs right up but have nothing for the exhaust valves....

what is the part number for the low octane head for the 440? also what motor is it off of? do you need to do any cdi remapping? also what jets have you guys been running with your low octane 440's? i have a trail converted sno pro, but want to get an iq instead. just dont know as much about the iq's, and this topic is mostly about the 600 conversion.

The head kit part # is 2202188. It includes all the head O-Rings, T-Stat gasket and clutch weights. It also includes a Jetting chart and instalation/tuning instructions.

You will also need a Timing Selector Switch if it an '06 or newer IQ. The switch just plugs right into the harness and you can switch it to "E" for the Tail Head.

The trail head works for all Poo 440's 2000 and newer (possibly others) you can find it by looking at the '02 ProX 440 parts fisch and possible others.

Jordan I have the low comp head if you are looking for one. It's used, I bought it and then ended up putting in a 600 instead.

did any of you guys that put a 600 ves in have problems with the coolant inlet on the top of the head getting in the way of the airbox tube?

A heat gun or hair drier will make the plastic soft enough to form around the coolant inlet. I did the same thing with my oil bottle to make it fit better. You can use a blow torch, but the heat is a little hard to control.