Pockets if you around, you've helped me before and this probably is fairly simple. I've got an '03 700 SKS that won't shift out fully. Normally, I don't have this problem with my sleds and since I'm new to the Team secondary world, I'm wondering if it is the helix/spring?

Here is what I'm running:
SLP Ceramic Single Pipe
SLP Air Box Mod and flow-rites
V-Force 3 Reeds
450 Mains
Holtzman Variflow
Avenger II Tach/EGT/Water Temp
66 gr weights
150-310 primary
Stock Perc Helix (I believe it is a 56-42)
155-222 Black/Red CCW spring
Stock 23-39 gearing
Torque Strap.

I spend the better part of the weekend testing and I am slowly becoming a believer in the jetting recommendations posted on this forum. I'm at roughly 1,000 ft and in 18 degree F tems I was hitting just over 1,200 on the EGT's in the rich position. Plugs & wash showed I had room and I just completed my tax return, so I wasn't afraid of squeaking a piston. I started clicking the variflow down and would pick-up about 25-30 degrees each click. Full lean I was at 1,317 on the EGT's, plugs still looked ok and I need to put some more runs on to verify the wash. My plan is to drop down to 440's. That should give me plenty of room for a long-pull and accomodate temp rises in the spring.

On to the stated problem... Sled is running 8,000 - 8,100 consistently at all settings. It runs good and pulls hard but I'm leaving about 5/8" on the primary. Don't think I have too much weight. 64's didn't make a dent as my rpms were 8,200-8,300 The only thing I can think of is that I need a steeper finish angle on the helix (44 or 46) to open the secondary faster or I need to change gearing. Any thoughts??? 420720 helix or a 420771 (66/44 - 66/46)

Thanks

You need the Fast Old Style Polaris Button secondary clutch, even a stock Poo factory set up one!!!!!!

Sounds like my old 03 SKS 700 mod with LRM pipe, SLP can, HSP heads, V3’s, Fret Brother’s .25” thick reed spacers etc, etc..
Also had a SLP gutted air box, SLP Flow-Rites Holtzman Tempa-Flow, 440 main on PTO & 430 main on mag, Wis 1500 ft, good for -20 deg F.
Then I made a big F..ing mistake and installed a Team secondary clutch that would not shift out with 66 gram HSP N-66 weights, only 95 MPH.

Then installed one of my brother’s lake race set-up old Polaris secondary button clutches with an orange HSP spring & HSP 50x38X helix, then much hard acceleration & 115+ MPH on the happy meter!!! Then & only then my 700 SKS would smoke any "stock" 03 F7, 05 F7, 06 Rev 800 & 07 Rev 800, as any good mod sled should. If not your performance shop is most likely only a lawn more repair shop that sells snowmobile parts!!!!!!!

When a Team secondary has too steep of a helix (70-46-46 or 66-44-46) or too strong of a (stock red/black or red/blue) spring it will not allow full shift out of primary clutch!!!
Just keep purchasing $110 Teams helixes until you get full shift out, then please reply back so I only have to purchase one $110 helix for my 07 Dragon 700!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cat still has problems trying to get their 07 roller clutch with a compression spring to fully shift out and not slip from 70 to 90 MPH on F8‘s.

Most top Polaris oval racers use the Excellent “Old Style Cat” roller clutch that has a “Torsion Spring“. Not a new style Cat or Team roller secondary that has a “Compression” spring that binds up, then will not fully shift out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My Dragon’s Team secondary (like most) will not fully shift out. So we installed two SLP delrin thrust washers at both ends of spring (did not correct my old SKS either), to try to keep the Team secondary compression spring from binding up when rotating. Also installed a 1080 drive belt. Still .3” of the black marker left on the Dragon’s primary clutch!!!!!!!

Good Luck with a Team secondary, you are going to needs lots of LUCK or help from HCS folks like Pockets!!!!!!!!!

Rich,

Thanks for the reply. At least your confirming my jetting thoughts. My PTO is running just slightly leaner.

This is my first experience with the TEAM clutch. I've got twenty or so old button style helixes in my shop. I think I'll just throw an old Polaris clutch on this and see if that cures it. Ultimately I'm hoping to resolve the team as my sole reason for wanting the team is for reverse to take it easy on my back that has finally started to fall apart after too many years of mogul bashing.

Went with the 440/430 staggered jetting at 8Degrees F and things are looking good. Ton more power than when it was jetted like a fat pig.

Ron, thanks for the up dates!
On my SKS 430 mj on PTO & 420mj on Mag was a lean as I wanted to go, short runs in 32*F weather & no Holtzman carb temp flow installed!!!

In my mod 03 SKS 700 I usualy ran 93 octane fuel. A few 34* F days added a little 87 octane to lean out a little, that was before I installed the Excellent Holztman carb temp flow, now always runs Excellent for my son!

Plus my SKS runs much cooler then stock, as I removed the theromostat & plugged the small lower by-pass hose.
Added Red Line Water Wetter, can reduce temp 25* F.
Added an older used $30 (1992/1996?) Polaris left side running board heat exchanger.

As you know once the coolant just starts to boil in the head instant burn down!!!!!!
Good Luck; Rich

there is nothing wrong with the team clutch. it is just a different theory to tune them. Although I do agree the $109.00 price tag on each and every helix is very discouraging. it is better that the Polaris Button clutch, and leaps & bunds ahead of the Polaris roller clutch.

Every good Team-clutch tuner always starts out with "Forget everything you thought you know about clutching and the team will be easier to learn" when they try to explain it to others.

The first thing to learn when trying to tune a team clutch is the width of the helix is way wider than a button clutch. And here is how this makes a difference if you try to use known angles that worked in a button set-up.

Imagine trying to loosen a lug-nut with a 2" socket handle, Could you do it??? No leverage right.

Now lengthen that wrench's handle, it gives you a better leverage co-efficient and takes less brute force to loosen the same nut.

Now look at the diameter of a team helix compared to a P-85 helix. The team helix will need way steeper angles on the helix to compenstae for the extra leverage. many people are under-helixing the teams (Especialy Polaris in 2005 on the 900 engine)
In fact just losing the torsional wrap spring makes the team easier to tune in theory. it takes out on of the variables right there.

There is 3 excellent threads over on Sno-west with well over 600 responses that would be an excellent primer for people that need to learn clutching theory on the team secondary, follow the links provided and allow 4-6 hours read time and re-reading it.

http://www.snowest.com/fusetalk/messagevie...highlight_key=y

http://www.snowest.com/fusetalk/messagevie...MVIEWTMP=Linear

http://www.snowest.com/fusetalk/messagevie...highlight_key=y


another thing people really need to check if they are not seeing full shift out (after verifying that the engine is producingpower to it's full potential) is that the primary is capable of fully closing. remove the primary, remove the spring, close the sheaves fully and put a new belt on it, you should see at least 1/8" of the top of the belt above the top of the sheaves. if that is not seen, the clutch needs machining so it is capable of fully shifting out.

a quick little something to try on the 05-06 polaris sleds is to go 4 degrees steeper on the secondary helix and have the same finish angle.
the 900 CC engine sleds showed huge improvements by just going to a 66-44 helix from the stock 62-42.

I hope this helps. Remember the set-ups listed on the Links I posted are for the liberty 900 cleanfire only and will not work on a triple or the 800.

bigron, get your jetting on first, 420's many find rich enough with good fuel. No richer than 430's. You should not need to stagger mains, run needle stock middle clip. First check your primary clutch as mentioned, have material taken off the flat area on the moveable sheave if needed so it can physically shift out first. Then adjust the primary sheave clearance to no more than .020", ideally .010". Run it again. You should go with a 44 finish angle with the SLP pipe and team. The 420720. Gearing down will help acieve full shift, but it will also only full shift when geared lower, or under perfect low drag conditions.

Pockets, thanks for chiming in. I just ordered the 720 helix. Also thanks to rich03sks and gettin2old. I read all the snow west posts on the team. I still have a headache, but one thing is for certain. Many Polaris twins seem to like a 44 finish angle.

Pockets is bang on....as usual.

I was out running my 700 today.
SLP single/Vforce reeds
15degF here @ sea level.

430 mains and middle needle position.
66gr ( matched @ 65.6 gr) with Almond primary
Button clutch R12 with silver blue and Dalton 50/42/36PR with Polaris blue/orange. The Dalton pulled harder.
22/40 gears

Freakin fast to 90!!
Wicked midrange pull and throttle response

The plugs @ WFO plug chop are light chocolate. Safe, could run 420 at this temp but will be razor sharp @ 0degF.
Couldn't read the wash well under the blazing sun.
Runs 8000 right on with a little creep to 8100 on a long pull.

I ran the same setup on my 03PROX700 with the Team roller. Only difference being a gutted air horn box.
The 70/44.46 pulled very hard on accel and in the midrange.
The difference between the 42 and 44 angle was dramatic.
The motor loved to be loaded with the 44, kept it working where the torque is and heated the pipe smoking hot.