I spent a lot of time yesterday looking for jobs and/or businesses to buy that would be successful.
On my search I could not believe the amount of places for sale in Alpena. WTF is going on up there? I thought it was growing. Is it being affected by the auto biz down here?
FWIW, nothing For Sale in Gaylord that I found. PLENTY in the U.P. though, not good :cn:
Then we move to the other side of the state. I found two places I checked further into in Traverse City in case I have to pack up the family and move back up there to a house that has no payment.
For anyone with $1.9 Mil laying around, there is a Powersports store for sale with full product lines, ATVs, Sleds, Boats, etc. and 12 employees. Owner is retiring.
Full Version: Alpena businesses...
check mancelona motel at centry 21 northland reality
what kind of a bussiness are you looking for ????. Industral-bar-retail-motel- If your a snowmobiler the mancelona motel is a hot spot
Beagle, is the Powerssports store in TC? I stopped there Saturday, he has 04 snowmobiles still in the crates, he has alot of inventory he can't push right now
Alpena, did you know that all the air traffic controllers from Selfridge Air Force Base are being moved to Alpena. Most of their controllers are civilians/retired air force
Alpena, did you know that all the air traffic controllers from Selfridge Air Force Base are being moved to Alpena. Most of their controllers are civilians/retired air force
QUOTE(Beagle1 @ Jan 3 2007, 01:30 PM) 
For anyone with $1.9 Mil laying around, there is a Powersports store for sale with full product lines, ATVs, Sleds, Boats, etc. and 12 employees. Owner is retiring.
I don't think people make as much dough up there as they do in other areas. Pushing high priced toys may not be the best plan right now IMO.
Let me edit this to not be so harsh...
A motel in an area that is weather and vacationer dependant in this economy doesn't seem like a good way to support my family right now.
Anyone look outside lately? I used to look at all the places closed, vacant or For Sale on my trips up to the U.P. in the off season. I think motels are good write off's for rich folks thse days, not a way to support a family. Whatever happend to Joe Snow? He was doing a deal for like a dozen Motels inthe state about a year ago and then vanished
Nothing personal against Mancelona, but I have a home already paid for 16 miles out of Traverse City. Makes more sense to do something there if I am forced to move back up to the area. And TC is much less weather and resorter dependant these days, not like the last time I tried to live there.
I appreciate the thoughts and input though. :beerchug:
If I was to buy a motel it would have been the one in Interlochen. It's never vacant. Always something going on there. Especially with the Music Camp so close.
PG, yup, the store is in TC. The inventory IS NOT included though, but available. If it's floorplanned, and if he has 04's, I think the books may not be looking to good. I think the price is quite steep for what it is. I am surprised he doesn't call Spicer's to get out from under those leftovers. That's who moves most of the leftovers in the midwest. But looking outside, they probably don't want them either.
12 years ago this April I was already to buy Team Highland before it expanded and then moved. I thank myself for not doing that every year we have a winter like this. Back then their books looked light, and they weren't moving many sleds, and Cat ATVs were not out yet. I would have had to still work part time AND own the business to make ends meet. That's not living, that's existing.
A motel in an area that is weather and vacationer dependant in this economy doesn't seem like a good way to support my family right now.
Anyone look outside lately? I used to look at all the places closed, vacant or For Sale on my trips up to the U.P. in the off season. I think motels are good write off's for rich folks thse days, not a way to support a family. Whatever happend to Joe Snow? He was doing a deal for like a dozen Motels inthe state about a year ago and then vanished
Nothing personal against Mancelona, but I have a home already paid for 16 miles out of Traverse City. Makes more sense to do something there if I am forced to move back up to the area. And TC is much less weather and resorter dependant these days, not like the last time I tried to live there.
I appreciate the thoughts and input though. :beerchug:
If I was to buy a motel it would have been the one in Interlochen. It's never vacant. Always something going on there. Especially with the Music Camp so close.
PG, yup, the store is in TC. The inventory IS NOT included though, but available. If it's floorplanned, and if he has 04's, I think the books may not be looking to good. I think the price is quite steep for what it is. I am surprised he doesn't call Spicer's to get out from under those leftovers. That's who moves most of the leftovers in the midwest. But looking outside, they probably don't want them either.
12 years ago this April I was already to buy Team Highland before it expanded and then moved. I thank myself for not doing that every year we have a winter like this. Back then their books looked light, and they weren't moving many sleds, and Cat ATVs were not out yet. I would have had to still work part time AND own the business to make ends meet. That's not living, that's existing.
Track and Trail, Skidoo dealership in Caddy was on the news up there Friday night. Not one customer all day, they ordered pizza for lunch so he figured he was in the whole for the day
how about a mfg co.
Theres a Motel off 131 in Mancelona across the street from Dura for sale. 8 rooms and a office for 170 grand. All redone last year. I was looking at that this year, but after the past few winters and seeing all the motels in the area vacant as they are now.... no way. It's still for sale.
How about an auto body shop in Bellaire?
-Duane
How about an auto body shop in Bellaire?
-Duane
QUOTE(Beagle1 @ Jan 3 2007, 01:30 PM)
I spent a lot of time yesterday looking for jobs and/or businesses to buy that would be successful.
On my search I could not believe the amount of places for sale in Alpena. WTF is going on up there? I thought it was growing. Is it being affected by the auto biz down here?
FWIW, nothing For Sale in Gaylord that I found. PLENTY in the U.P. though, not good :cn:
Then we move to the other side of the state. I found two places I checked further into in Traverse City in case I have to pack up the family and move back up there to a house that has no payment.
For anyone with $1.9 Mil laying around, there is a Powersports store for sale with full product lines, ATVs, Sleds, Boats, etc. and 12 employees. Owner is retiring.
On my search I could not believe the amount of places for sale in Alpena. WTF is going on up there? I thought it was growing. Is it being affected by the auto biz down here?
FWIW, nothing For Sale in Gaylord that I found. PLENTY in the U.P. though, not good :cn:
Then we move to the other side of the state. I found two places I checked further into in Traverse City in case I have to pack up the family and move back up there to a house that has no payment.
For anyone with $1.9 Mil laying around, there is a Powersports store for sale with full product lines, ATVs, Sleds, Boats, etc. and 12 employees. Owner is retiring.
The only growing that's happening up here in alpena is people retiring and going on wellfair!! Good work is pretty slim in the area, maybe only 5 to 6 really good places to work that pay good cash. The places are for sale for a reason, good luck with your search!
I was told just a month or so ago, by a reputable source no doubt, that the two biggest growing areas in this
state are the Gaylord and TC areas. I just don't see it though.....With all the layoffs, buyouts, and forced retirements
in the lower regions of this state, how is anybody(minus a retiree....See fixed income though)making any real
money up there?? No offence to all of you up there that are but man, with the way things are around here, I just
can't hardly see it......
Wish I could find a way to make a decent living up in the Grayling/Mancalona/Gaylord area. I'd be gone in a heartbeat....
state are the Gaylord and TC areas. I just don't see it though.....With all the layoffs, buyouts, and forced retirements
in the lower regions of this state, how is anybody(minus a retiree....See fixed income though)making any real
money up there?? No offence to all of you up there that are but man, with the way things are around here, I just
can't hardly see it......
Wish I could find a way to make a decent living up in the Grayling/Mancalona/Gaylord area. I'd be gone in a heartbeat....
QUOTE(sayatodaU.P.eh? @ Jan 3 2007, 08:50 PM)
I was told just a month or so ago, by a reputable source no doubt, that the two biggest growing areas in this
state are the Gaylord and TC areas. I just don't see it though.....With all the layoffs, buyouts, and forced retirements
in the lower regions of this state, how is anybody(minus a retiree....See fixed income though)making any real
money up there?? No offence to all of you up there that are but man, with the way things are around here, I just
can't hardly see it......
Wish I could find a way to make a decent living up in the Grayling/Mancalona/Gaylord area. I'd be gone in a heartbeat....
state are the Gaylord and TC areas. I just don't see it though.....With all the layoffs, buyouts, and forced retirements
in the lower regions of this state, how is anybody(minus a retiree....See fixed income though)making any real
money up there?? No offence to all of you up there that are but man, with the way things are around here, I just
can't hardly see it......
Wish I could find a way to make a decent living up in the Grayling/Mancalona/Gaylord area. I'd be gone in a heartbeat....
Just give a big :bigfinger: to every import driver when you seem them.....just to say thanks for supporting the great state of Michigan.
The wife and i were thinking about buying a farm up that way. Grow some cash crop. THats always in demand.
QUOTE(fxdwg @ Jan 4 2007, 06:06 AM)
Just give a big :bigfinger: to every import driver when you seem them.....just to say thanks for supporting the great state of Michigan.
That seems like a pretty ignorant statement.......
Within a few years, 100% of the Honda Vehicles sold in the USA will be COMPLETELY made in the USA while your Big 3 are looking overseas....
Don't get me wrong, I drive GM Vehicles. You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there....
QUOTE(catrules2000 @ Jan 4 2007, 09:22 AM)
That seems like a pretty ignorant statement.......
Within a few years, 100% of the Honda Vehicles sold in the USA will be COMPLETELY made in the USA while your Big 3 are looking overseas....
Don't get me wrong, I drive GM Vehicles. You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there....
Within a few years, 100% of the Honda Vehicles sold in the USA will be COMPLETELY made in the USA while your Big 3 are looking overseas....
Don't get me wrong, I drive GM Vehicles. You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there....
I agree. I've always driven MoPar vehicles because that's who put bread on our table as I was growing up.
The last few years it seems that almost all the business comes from Honda and Toyota, and some from Chrysler. GM and Ford are to busy trying to source everything they can out of th country. Tool it in China or some other Asian country, and manufacture it in Mexico.
At least Honda and Toyota are investing there money here. Keeping much of the business in the country, and supporting American workers. I could give a shit "where the profits are going". Last I checked most of the Auto companys were publicly traded and owned by stock holders all over the world.
Don't blame the foreign manufacturers for the problems of the US car manufacturers. They just started building quality vehicles before the arogent US manufacturers did. Now, the domestic manufacturers are caught with their pants down and trying to catch up. I think there primary interest is in keeping there stock values up by keeping there profits up. The easiest way to do this is in short order is cut costs, cut payroll, cut, cut, cut...
Of course the question remains, who will be left to buy these vehicles?
QUOTE(twostrokesmoke @ Jan 3 2007, 02:35 PM)
how about a mfg co.
In Michigan? :smilielol: No thanks, I have a conscience. The only way to make mfg. work in Michigan is to outsource. Win a huge contract for $2 mil, outsource to BFE somewhere for $800,000 and pocket the difference. Happening every month here in the Great Lakes State :banghead:
Although I hear Tower may be coming out of bankruptcy? Wonder how many people are going to be cut, or if not the business relocated altogether.
QUOTE(sayatodaU.P.eh? @ Jan 3 2007, 08:50 PM)
I was told just a month or so ago, by a reputable source no doubt, that the two biggest growing areas in this
state are the Gaylord and TC areas. I just don't see it though.....With all the layoffs, buyouts, and forced retirements
in the lower regions of this state, how is anybody(minus a retiree....See fixed income though)making any real
money up there?? No offence to all of you up there that are but man, with the way things are around here, I just
can't hardly see it......
Wish I could find a way to make a decent living up in the Grayling/Mancalona/Gaylord area. I'd be gone in a heartbeat....
state are the Gaylord and TC areas. I just don't see it though.....With all the layoffs, buyouts, and forced retirements
in the lower regions of this state, how is anybody(minus a retiree....See fixed income though)making any real
money up there?? No offence to all of you up there that are but man, with the way things are around here, I just
can't hardly see it......
Wish I could find a way to make a decent living up in the Grayling/Mancalona/Gaylord area. I'd be gone in a heartbeat....
Yes TC and Gaylord are trading back & forth for the fastest growing cities in Michigan, and at times, the country. Why can peoplle move up there? Well here is what I am seeing and what is being explained to me. The BUYOUTS. Many of the autoworkers that are retiring or being bought out are paying off their vacation home or it is already paid for. So there in lies the flooded market around metro Detroit. These folks are usually empty nesters, and are bailing out of here to live where they planned to when they retired, which is happening earlier.
Now, keep this in mind. Traverse City IMO is the role model for the rest of Michigan. No MIDDLE CLASS. Upper & Lower. Very few good paying middle of the road jobs. You either own a place or work for someone that does. "And a View of the Bay is Worth Half the Pay".
Golfer should be able to fill you in more on what & why things are happening in TC.
Saya buddy, I honestly think that in 2007 you could make it work in TC as a GM wrench. Either at William's Chevy or at the large independant down South Airport Road that is a huge GM repair shop. Can't remember the name. I kick myself sometimes now for not going into business with the friend I made from Iraq at the Ford Dealer when I lived up there in 1996. Yup, I said Iraq. Fred was a top notch guy (though not Muslim). He about begged me to go into business with him down on US 31. He's still up there, and doing well.
Saya, you want to venture up there in the spring, let me know. Maybe I can supply you with some free lodging and you can go sniff around for a job. If you were to move there, you'd have some instant connections too. As for housing. I would NOT live in Grand Traverse County. Taxes are to high. Live in Wexford, Benzie or Antrim and commute. None of those are to far from the auto repair hub of TC.
And if imports make your blood boil, you may not want to move to TC. Imports are the rule up there for cars, trucks are still mainly domestic. "Cause let's face it, there is no way an import truck can tow 8500# at 75mph :smilielol:
I should know by the end of summer if I have to move to TC or not. I will just take it hard in the rear with no KY when I go to sell my downstate house.
QUOTE(catrules2000 @ Jan 4 2007, 09:22 AM)
That seems like a pretty ignorant statement.......
Within a few years, 100% of the Honda Vehicles sold in the USA will be COMPLETELY made in the USA while your Big 3 are looking overseas....
Don't get me wrong, I drive GM Vehicles. You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there....
Within a few years, 100% of the Honda Vehicles sold in the USA will be COMPLETELY made in the USA while your Big 3 are looking overseas....
Don't get me wrong, I drive GM Vehicles. You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there....
I am not going to get into this debate again "You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there...."...it's been beat to death.
But I will add what I have learned researching on the WWW while unemployed, and what I already know from my previous jobs and belonging to SAE. This is not BASHING, or taking sides, it is strictly for knowledge.
- Chrysler (DCX) is going to start building a bunch of vehicles IN CHINA and shipping them here. Should start to see them the end of this year. Don't know what the 1st digit of the VIN will be for that yet though.
-If you drive a GM vehicle with a 3.1 or 3.4 pushrod engine built in the last 2 years, your engine is fondly referred to as the "China V-6" , you can figure out why on your own.
-If you have a GM with a HF-V6, the engine was built in Australia or Canada.
-Lots of Ford & GM stuff comes from Mexico already. Including the manliest of all trucks, the Super Duties :banghead: Check your VIN for a 3 as the 1st digit before you freak out.
-GM is building and testing plenty of stuff in China to be exported here. One of my good friends from my last job had to go to China for 3 months to teach their people how to do OUR JOB :frech32: And my old department head is there now doing God knows what for them. GM has a ton of job listings to work & live in China and come back to the USA occasionally.
-There is a huge industrial park that was built in China for the automotive companies. I am talking Delphi, Bosch, Visteon, Ford, GM and DCX among the big names. Pretty much a smaller version of what Detroit was in it's hayday.
-In 2 years you should see your very 1st all Chinese designed and built car here in the U.S. for sale. It will be from a company called Cherry or something along those lines, not sure on the spelling.
Worst of all, over there their Auto Shows still dress the models in short dresses and low cut tops. Not here anymore, that's not PC.
If anyone would like to follow this saga of selling off Michigan one sector at a time, join SAE and receive the Automotive Engineering magazine. They now have dedicated a whole section to what's happening in China :wut60: You don't have to work in a place like I did to find all this out.
So...anyone want some fortune cookies now? It will read "America is selling out".
Beagle, bluelakezr, you guys are spot on with your facts. Funny, I share the same view, but I get targeted for abuse by sheeple for saying the same things... guess it's just a personal thing.
saya has Toyo mech experience... I'd think good auto mechs could get a job nearly anywhere in the state, and stay busy?? Hard to move away from everything you know though. Wife had a job opp in Keewenaw for more than she makes down here (really nice bucks), but I couldn't pull the trigger on my kids at this point. Might regret it... :cn:
:beerchug:
saya has Toyo mech experience... I'd think good auto mechs could get a job nearly anywhere in the state, and stay busy??
Hard to move away from everything you know though. Wife had a job opp in Keewenaw for more than she makes down here (really nice bucks), but I couldn't pull the trigger on my kids at this point. Might regret it... :cn::beerchug:
[quote name='yamahauler' date='Jan 4 2007, 10:24 AM' post='2274234']
Beagle, bluelakezr, you guys are spot on with your facts. Funny, I share the same view, but I get targeted for abuse by sheeple for saying the same things... guess it's just a personal thing.
Hey Dooms Day Dennis, I'm jeolous I don't have my own personal stalker. You my friend are a popular guy. :div20:
Beagle, bluelakezr, you guys are spot on with your facts. Funny, I share the same view, but I get targeted for abuse by sheeple for saying the same things... guess it's just a personal thing.
Hey Dooms Day Dennis, I'm jeolous I don't have my own personal stalker. You my friend are a popular guy. :div20:
My wife has a job offer right now in Chicago and I think we're outta here. I know what ya mean Dennis about moving the kids - tough deal. I will still be within driving distance to the Caddilac area and the opportunities are endless compared to here. Not bashing Michigan, I love this place but ya gotta be real.
Alot of baby boomers retiring also is part reason for TC etc growing ...
Good post Beagle on the auto stats. China is gonna be the death blow for the auto industry here
YH ... its not personal why peopple attack you on your posts. Your just sorta fun to beat up on now & then :smilielol: J/K
:beerchug:
Good post Beagle on the auto stats. China is gonna be the death blow for the auto industry here
YH ... its not personal why peopple attack you on your posts. Your just sorta fun to beat up on now & then :smilielol: J/K
:beerchug:
QUOTE(bluelakezr @ Jan 4 2007, 10:32 AM)
Hey Dooms Day Dennis, I'm jeolous I don't have my own personal stalker. You my friend are a popular guy. :div20:
:smilielol: Some people just need a fall guy... :cn:QUOTE(ford_428cj @ Jan 4 2007, 10:42 AM)
China is gonna be the death blow for the auto industry here YH ... its not personal why peopple attack you on your posts. Your just sorta fun to beat up on now & then :smilielol: J/K
:beerchug:
Now DCX is taking the vans there... :banghead: It's ok, I can take the heat... it's not tough to do when you're right... :div20::beerchug:
:beerchug:
QUOTE(Beagle1 @ Jan 4 2007, 10:01 AM)
In Michigan? :smilielol: No thanks, I have a conscience. The only way to make mfg. work in Michigan is to outsource. Win a huge contract for $2 mil, outsource to BFE somewhere for $800,000 and pocket the difference. Happening every month here in the Great Lakes State :banghead:
Although I hear Tower may be coming out of bankruptcy? Wonder how many people are going to be cut, or if not the business relocated altogether.
Yes TC and Gaylord are trading back & forth for the fastest growing cities in Michigan, and at times, the country. Why can peoplle move up there? Well here is what I am seeing and what is being explained to me. The BUYOUTS. Many of the autoworkers that are retiring or being bought out are paying off their vacation home or it is already paid for. So there in lies the flooded market around metro Detroit. These folks are usually empty nesters, and are bailing out of here to live where they planned to when they retired, which is happening earlier.
Now, keep this in mind. Traverse City IMO is the role model for the rest of Michigan. No MIDDLE CLASS. Upper & Lower. Very few good paying middle of the road jobs. You either own a place or work for someone that does. "And a View of the Bay is Worth Half the Pay".
Golfer should be able to fill you in more on what & why things are happening in TC.
Saya buddy, I honestly think that in 2007 you could make it work in TC as a GM wrench. Either at William's Chevy or at the large independant down South Airport Road that is a huge GM repair shop. Can't remember the name. I kick myself sometimes now for not going into business with the friend I made from Iraq at the Ford Dealer when I lived up there in 1996. Yup, I said Iraq. Fred was a top notch guy (though not Muslim). He about begged me to go into business with him down on US 31. He's still up there, and doing well.
Saya, you want to venture up there in the spring, let me know. Maybe I can supply you with some free lodging and you can go sniff around for a job. If you were to move there, you'd have some instant connections too. As for housing. I would NOT live in Grand Traverse County. Taxes are to high. Live in Wexford, Benzie or Antrim and commute. None of those are to far from the auto repair hub of TC.
And if imports make your blood boil, you may not want to move to TC. Imports are the rule up there for cars, trucks are still mainly domestic. "Cause let's face it, there is no way an import truck can tow 8500# at 75mph :smilielol:
I should know by the end of summer if I have to move to TC or not. I will just take it hard in the rear with no KY when I go to sell my downstate house.
I am not going to get into this debate again "You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there...."...it's been beat to death.
But I will add what I have learned researching on the WWW while unemployed, and what I already know from my previous jobs and belonging to SAE. This is not BASHING, or taking sides, it is strictly for knowledge.
- Chrysler (DCX) is going to start building a bunch of vehicles IN CHINA and shipping them here. Should start to see them the end of this year. Don't know what the 1st digit of the VIN will be for that yet though.
-If you drive a GM vehicle with a 3.1 or 3.4 pushrod engine built in the last 2 years, your engine is fondly referred to as the "China V-6" , you can figure out why on your own.
-If you have a GM with a HF-V6, the engine was built in Australia or Canada.
-Lots of Ford & GM stuff comes from Mexico already. Including the manliest of all trucks, the Super Duties :banghead: Check your VIN for a 3 as the 1st digit before you freak out.
-GM is building and testing plenty of stuff in China to be exported here. One of my good friends from my last job had to go to China for 3 months to teach their people how to do OUR JOB :frech32: And my old department head is there now doing God knows what for them. GM has a ton of job listings to work & live in China and come back to the USA occasionally.
-There is a huge industrial park that was built in China for the automotive companies. I am talking Delphi, Bosch, Visteon, Ford, GM and DCX among the big names. Pretty much a smaller version of what Detroit was in it's hayday.
-In 2 years you should see your very 1st all Chinese designed and built car here in the U.S. for sale. It will be from a company called Cherry or something along those lines, not sure on the spelling.
Worst of all, over there their Auto Shows still dress the models in short dresses and low cut tops. Not here anymore, that's not PC.
If anyone would like to follow this saga of selling off Michigan one sector at a time, join SAE and receive the Automotive Engineering magazine. They now have dedicated a whole section to what's happening in China :wut60: You don't have to work in a place like I did to find all this out.
So...anyone want some fortune cookies now? It will read "America is selling out".
Although I hear Tower may be coming out of bankruptcy? Wonder how many people are going to be cut, or if not the business relocated altogether.
Yes TC and Gaylord are trading back & forth for the fastest growing cities in Michigan, and at times, the country. Why can peoplle move up there? Well here is what I am seeing and what is being explained to me. The BUYOUTS. Many of the autoworkers that are retiring or being bought out are paying off their vacation home or it is already paid for. So there in lies the flooded market around metro Detroit. These folks are usually empty nesters, and are bailing out of here to live where they planned to when they retired, which is happening earlier.
Now, keep this in mind. Traverse City IMO is the role model for the rest of Michigan. No MIDDLE CLASS. Upper & Lower. Very few good paying middle of the road jobs. You either own a place or work for someone that does. "And a View of the Bay is Worth Half the Pay".
Golfer should be able to fill you in more on what & why things are happening in TC.
Saya buddy, I honestly think that in 2007 you could make it work in TC as a GM wrench. Either at William's Chevy or at the large independant down South Airport Road that is a huge GM repair shop. Can't remember the name. I kick myself sometimes now for not going into business with the friend I made from Iraq at the Ford Dealer when I lived up there in 1996. Yup, I said Iraq. Fred was a top notch guy (though not Muslim). He about begged me to go into business with him down on US 31. He's still up there, and doing well.
Saya, you want to venture up there in the spring, let me know. Maybe I can supply you with some free lodging and you can go sniff around for a job. If you were to move there, you'd have some instant connections too. As for housing. I would NOT live in Grand Traverse County. Taxes are to high. Live in Wexford, Benzie or Antrim and commute. None of those are to far from the auto repair hub of TC.
And if imports make your blood boil, you may not want to move to TC. Imports are the rule up there for cars, trucks are still mainly domestic. "Cause let's face it, there is no way an import truck can tow 8500# at 75mph :smilielol:
I should know by the end of summer if I have to move to TC or not. I will just take it hard in the rear with no KY when I go to sell my downstate house.
I am not going to get into this debate again "You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there...."...it's been beat to death.
But I will add what I have learned researching on the WWW while unemployed, and what I already know from my previous jobs and belonging to SAE. This is not BASHING, or taking sides, it is strictly for knowledge.
- Chrysler (DCX) is going to start building a bunch of vehicles IN CHINA and shipping them here. Should start to see them the end of this year. Don't know what the 1st digit of the VIN will be for that yet though.
-If you drive a GM vehicle with a 3.1 or 3.4 pushrod engine built in the last 2 years, your engine is fondly referred to as the "China V-6" , you can figure out why on your own.
-If you have a GM with a HF-V6, the engine was built in Australia or Canada.
-Lots of Ford & GM stuff comes from Mexico already. Including the manliest of all trucks, the Super Duties :banghead: Check your VIN for a 3 as the 1st digit before you freak out.
-GM is building and testing plenty of stuff in China to be exported here. One of my good friends from my last job had to go to China for 3 months to teach their people how to do OUR JOB :frech32: And my old department head is there now doing God knows what for them. GM has a ton of job listings to work & live in China and come back to the USA occasionally.
-There is a huge industrial park that was built in China for the automotive companies. I am talking Delphi, Bosch, Visteon, Ford, GM and DCX among the big names. Pretty much a smaller version of what Detroit was in it's hayday.
-In 2 years you should see your very 1st all Chinese designed and built car here in the U.S. for sale. It will be from a company called Cherry or something along those lines, not sure on the spelling.
Worst of all, over there their Auto Shows still dress the models in short dresses and low cut tops. Not here anymore, that's not PC.
If anyone would like to follow this saga of selling off Michigan one sector at a time, join SAE and receive the Automotive Engineering magazine. They now have dedicated a whole section to what's happening in China :wut60: You don't have to work in a place like I did to find all this out.
So...anyone want some fortune cookies now? It will read "America is selling out".
I guess my question after reading this is simple: If the big 3 aren't being loyal to the American worker and consumer why are we obligated to be loyal to them? By the way I drive a Silverado so all you bashers try to answer the question.
Well Judge, that's a good question. Why buy? The only answer I can give for those that still have a job is, "The job you save may be your own".
Now for more fun with Global Economy facts. (Gheez I wish I could get a job that paid me to research and exploit this useless info I have).
Where's your Hemi engine built? You know, that American MOPAR icon?
Saltillo Engine Plant
Carretere Saltillo-Monterrey KM9.5 , , Ramos Arizpe , Coahuila , Mexico
Floor Space: 1,652,506 square feet
Acreage: 93
Products:
2.0-liter/2.4-liter DOHC Engines - Chrysler PT Cruiser and Dodge Stratus
2.4-liter Turbo Engine - Chrysler PT Cruiser, Chrysler PT Convertible, Dodge Neon SRT and Dodge Stratus
5.7-liter V-8 HEMI® Engine - Chrysler 300, Dodge Ram, Dodge Magnum, Dodge Durango and Jeep® Grand Cherokee
6.1-liter V-8 Engine - Dodge Charger
Employment: 985
Training Hours: 29,657 Hours (2005)
Union Local: Confederación de Trabajadores Mexicanos (CTM)
Plant History: Facility was completed in 1981 and engine production started in May 1981. The 5.7-liter HEMI engine was launched in June 2002.
And the truck those Hemi engines go in?
Saltillo Truck Assembly Plant
Carretere a Derramadero Km 1.5 , Aqua Nueva-Saltillo , Saltillo , Coahuila , Mexico
Floor Space: 212,850 square feet
Acreage: 48,863
Products: Dodge Ram Quad Cab 4x2 and 4x4, Dodge Ram Regular Cab 4x2 and 4x4, Dodge Ram Mega Cab 4x2 and 4x4, DC Chassis-Cabin
Employment: 2,123
Training Hours: 30,778 Hours (2005)
Robotics: 370
Union Local: Automotive Industry Workers, Union of Mexican Republic, SNTIASCRM
Plant History: Facility was completed and production began in 1995. The plant has been producing the Dodge Ram Club Cab and Quad Cab for export market. The Dodge Ram Mega Cab was launched in August 2005. The DC Chassis-Cabin is launched in August 2006. Included at the Saltillo site is a Satellite Stamping Plant.
Now for more fun with Global Economy facts. (Gheez I wish I could get a job that paid me to research and exploit this useless info I have).
Where's your Hemi engine built? You know, that American MOPAR icon?
Saltillo Engine Plant
Carretere Saltillo-Monterrey KM9.5 , , Ramos Arizpe , Coahuila , Mexico
Floor Space: 1,652,506 square feet
Acreage: 93
Products:
2.0-liter/2.4-liter DOHC Engines - Chrysler PT Cruiser and Dodge Stratus
2.4-liter Turbo Engine - Chrysler PT Cruiser, Chrysler PT Convertible, Dodge Neon SRT and Dodge Stratus
5.7-liter V-8 HEMI® Engine - Chrysler 300, Dodge Ram, Dodge Magnum, Dodge Durango and Jeep® Grand Cherokee
6.1-liter V-8 Engine - Dodge Charger
Employment: 985
Training Hours: 29,657 Hours (2005)
Union Local: Confederación de Trabajadores Mexicanos (CTM)
Plant History: Facility was completed in 1981 and engine production started in May 1981. The 5.7-liter HEMI engine was launched in June 2002.
And the truck those Hemi engines go in?
Saltillo Truck Assembly Plant
Carretere a Derramadero Km 1.5 , Aqua Nueva-Saltillo , Saltillo , Coahuila , Mexico
Floor Space: 212,850 square feet
Acreage: 48,863
Products: Dodge Ram Quad Cab 4x2 and 4x4, Dodge Ram Regular Cab 4x2 and 4x4, Dodge Ram Mega Cab 4x2 and 4x4, DC Chassis-Cabin
Employment: 2,123
Training Hours: 30,778 Hours (2005)
Robotics: 370
Union Local: Automotive Industry Workers, Union of Mexican Republic, SNTIASCRM
Plant History: Facility was completed and production began in 1995. The plant has been producing the Dodge Ram Club Cab and Quad Cab for export market. The Dodge Ram Mega Cab was launched in August 2005. The DC Chassis-Cabin is launched in August 2006. Included at the Saltillo site is a Satellite Stamping Plant.
Okay, a few more facts before I take my American built Harley (with Japanese brakes and forks, China made chrome Genuine HD add on parts and German EFI) out for a ride.
Full story here: Edmunds
The Chinese are coming to the U.S.
Actually, they are already here.
Pooh-pooh all you want. You aren't alone. Many in Detroit and the auto industry, in general, doubt the Chinese will make it or, if they arrive on our shores, won't cut it in the States. Of course, some of these same folks pooh-poohed the prospects of the Japanese and later the Koreans, and now look who is eating their market-share lunch.
The fact is Chinese car companies are coming to the U.S. (and Europe as well) in some fashion, likely sooner rather than later. In fact, they're here; they just entered the back door quietly.
They're following the same successful path pioneered by the Japanese and copied by the Koreans: establish a beachhead with small, inexpensive cars and sport-utilities, which is their specialty, and work their way up.
The larger Chinese car companies that currently have no giant foreign auto partners — Chery, Geely and Great Wall, specifically — will pave the way. Then those with partners will join in, and even the partners themselves will import low-priced, Chinese-made vehicles to the U.S. as their entry-level models much as they did with their Japanese and then Korean partners.
Look what American apple-pie Chevrolet has done to see what's ahead. It first tapped its Japanese affiliates for its small, entry-level models.
Remember Chevrolet's Geo division? It was stocked with models from General Motors' joint venture with Toyota and its partner Suzuki. Chevy now has turned to GM's newly acquired Korean arm, Daewoo, for its entry-level Aveo. Meantime, in Texas, GM has quietly begun importing and selling — for under $10,000 — Chinese mini-trucks that can only be used off-road. (Beagle1 edit: Used by Ranchers as they DO NOT meet EPA guidelines.)
And then there are the parts in its vehicles. Pop the hood of the Chevrolet Equinox (and the upcoming Pontiac Torrent), and you'll find a made-in-China engine. Ford engineers report the automaker is looking to source engine components in China as well, and its partner, Changan Automobile Group, has its sights set on the U.S. for vehicle sales.
More proof; the Auto Shanghai 2005, which opened the end of April, attracted every major automaker, every major auto supplier and the top brass from all of those companies this year. DaimlerChrysler just announced it's looking to build Chryslers in China and send them to the U.S.
The naysayers point to a number of reasons why the Chinese car companies won't make it in the U.S.
First of all, they say, look at the trouble they're having at home. Indeed, the go-go sales days in China are gone, thanks to government intervention a year ago to purposely slow the overheated economy. The fallout of that action was that car sales dipped from astronomical rates, vehicle inventories bloated, and automakers, to move the metal, resorted to hefty price cuts.
Still, China's car sales for 2005 are expected to be 10-percent higher than in 2004, which were up 15 percent from 2003 despite China's "troubles."
And long term, the importance of China on the international landscape cannot be denied. Virtually every expert in the world believes China will be the No. 1 market in terms of sales and auto production; the only debate is how soon. Certainly, it will occur within the next decade or so.
However, the doubting Thomases point out, the Chinese are hooking up with partners with less-than-stellar track records. The loudest among them is Malcolm Bricklin, who had little success after helping to launch Subaru with his own Bricklin brand and Yugo. Bricklin has outrageously ambitious plans for his partner, Chery, which he says will arrive in the U.S. in January 2007, introduce a new model every two months for three years, and sell 250,000 vehicles a year as the "new Toyota."
Already, Bricklin has been forced to scale back his grandiose plans for dealerships that were to sell Chery vehicles exclusively — they now may be paired with other brands. Indeed, it is difficult to understand some of the partner selections, but no doubt the Chinese, known as shrewd business people and negotiators, will figure it out.
And what of Chinese vehicle quality? For sure, it is currently not up to snuff across the board with what Americans expect. However, quality guru J.D. Power and Associates, which has been doing quality studies in China since 2000 and just went public with its first one, reports initial quality is dramatically improving with every new model introduced. And remember, the quality of the early Japanese and Korean cars that came to the U.S. was nothing to write home about, and yet now they top the quality charts. Yet another recent study showed the U.S., a land of immigrants, would welcome — and buy — Chinese-made cars without hesitation. Chinese automakers further have a built-in market with millions of immigrants from China living in the U.S.
Naysayers underestimate the resolve of the Chinese government, which has declared the auto industry as one of the main pillars of its growing economy. Frequent visitors to China say that new skyscrapers and highways appear seemingly overnight. And this is the country, after all, that leapfrogged traditional telephones, moving straight to the newest cell phone technology.
The same leapfrogging could occur in the auto industry. The Chinese government has not fully committed to an auto industry that relies just on petroleum, which has to be imported. Recently, the government announced construction of 40 new power plants that could power transportation and substantial research into alternative fuels is ongoing in China. In fact, one of China's automakers is also among the world's largest producers of lithium batteries. With such high levels of motivation, resources and brainpower, China may well become the world leader in hybrids and hydrogen fuel cells.
Well I don't know about the rest of you. But I have not slept one good fuckin' night since I lost my job 8 weeks ago. Unless I got totalled poo poo'd. And all that has done is caused my to put on 20# in that time.
Now I am done what if'ing and putting a plan together. Maybe I will fly to China and learn how to fix their cars and work in a freakin' Chinese Dealership :banghead:
Okay Dennis...you owe me one for hopping on the Chicken Little Bandwagon. But I am getting the hell off of it and figuring out how to do something.
Full story here: Edmunds
The Chinese are coming to the U.S.
Actually, they are already here.
Pooh-pooh all you want. You aren't alone. Many in Detroit and the auto industry, in general, doubt the Chinese will make it or, if they arrive on our shores, won't cut it in the States. Of course, some of these same folks pooh-poohed the prospects of the Japanese and later the Koreans, and now look who is eating their market-share lunch.
The fact is Chinese car companies are coming to the U.S. (and Europe as well) in some fashion, likely sooner rather than later. In fact, they're here; they just entered the back door quietly.
They're following the same successful path pioneered by the Japanese and copied by the Koreans: establish a beachhead with small, inexpensive cars and sport-utilities, which is their specialty, and work their way up.
The larger Chinese car companies that currently have no giant foreign auto partners — Chery, Geely and Great Wall, specifically — will pave the way. Then those with partners will join in, and even the partners themselves will import low-priced, Chinese-made vehicles to the U.S. as their entry-level models much as they did with their Japanese and then Korean partners.
Look what American apple-pie Chevrolet has done to see what's ahead. It first tapped its Japanese affiliates for its small, entry-level models.
Remember Chevrolet's Geo division? It was stocked with models from General Motors' joint venture with Toyota and its partner Suzuki. Chevy now has turned to GM's newly acquired Korean arm, Daewoo, for its entry-level Aveo. Meantime, in Texas, GM has quietly begun importing and selling — for under $10,000 — Chinese mini-trucks that can only be used off-road. (Beagle1 edit: Used by Ranchers as they DO NOT meet EPA guidelines.)
And then there are the parts in its vehicles. Pop the hood of the Chevrolet Equinox (and the upcoming Pontiac Torrent), and you'll find a made-in-China engine. Ford engineers report the automaker is looking to source engine components in China as well, and its partner, Changan Automobile Group, has its sights set on the U.S. for vehicle sales.
More proof; the Auto Shanghai 2005, which opened the end of April, attracted every major automaker, every major auto supplier and the top brass from all of those companies this year. DaimlerChrysler just announced it's looking to build Chryslers in China and send them to the U.S.
The naysayers point to a number of reasons why the Chinese car companies won't make it in the U.S.
First of all, they say, look at the trouble they're having at home. Indeed, the go-go sales days in China are gone, thanks to government intervention a year ago to purposely slow the overheated economy. The fallout of that action was that car sales dipped from astronomical rates, vehicle inventories bloated, and automakers, to move the metal, resorted to hefty price cuts.
Still, China's car sales for 2005 are expected to be 10-percent higher than in 2004, which were up 15 percent from 2003 despite China's "troubles."
And long term, the importance of China on the international landscape cannot be denied. Virtually every expert in the world believes China will be the No. 1 market in terms of sales and auto production; the only debate is how soon. Certainly, it will occur within the next decade or so.
However, the doubting Thomases point out, the Chinese are hooking up with partners with less-than-stellar track records. The loudest among them is Malcolm Bricklin, who had little success after helping to launch Subaru with his own Bricklin brand and Yugo. Bricklin has outrageously ambitious plans for his partner, Chery, which he says will arrive in the U.S. in January 2007, introduce a new model every two months for three years, and sell 250,000 vehicles a year as the "new Toyota."
Already, Bricklin has been forced to scale back his grandiose plans for dealerships that were to sell Chery vehicles exclusively — they now may be paired with other brands. Indeed, it is difficult to understand some of the partner selections, but no doubt the Chinese, known as shrewd business people and negotiators, will figure it out.
And what of Chinese vehicle quality? For sure, it is currently not up to snuff across the board with what Americans expect. However, quality guru J.D. Power and Associates, which has been doing quality studies in China since 2000 and just went public with its first one, reports initial quality is dramatically improving with every new model introduced. And remember, the quality of the early Japanese and Korean cars that came to the U.S. was nothing to write home about, and yet now they top the quality charts. Yet another recent study showed the U.S., a land of immigrants, would welcome — and buy — Chinese-made cars without hesitation. Chinese automakers further have a built-in market with millions of immigrants from China living in the U.S.
Naysayers underestimate the resolve of the Chinese government, which has declared the auto industry as one of the main pillars of its growing economy. Frequent visitors to China say that new skyscrapers and highways appear seemingly overnight. And this is the country, after all, that leapfrogged traditional telephones, moving straight to the newest cell phone technology.
The same leapfrogging could occur in the auto industry. The Chinese government has not fully committed to an auto industry that relies just on petroleum, which has to be imported. Recently, the government announced construction of 40 new power plants that could power transportation and substantial research into alternative fuels is ongoing in China. In fact, one of China's automakers is also among the world's largest producers of lithium batteries. With such high levels of motivation, resources and brainpower, China may well become the world leader in hybrids and hydrogen fuel cells.
Well I don't know about the rest of you. But I have not slept one good fuckin' night since I lost my job 8 weeks ago. Unless I got totalled poo poo'd. And all that has done is caused my to put on 20# in that time.
Now I am done what if'ing and putting a plan together. Maybe I will fly to China and learn how to fix their cars and work in a freakin' Chinese Dealership :banghead:
Okay Dennis...you owe me one for hopping on the Chicken Little Bandwagon. But I am getting the hell off of it and figuring out how to do something.
Nice. :banghead: Wasn't the whole point of the Korean War, Vietnam War, and Cold War but to stop the spread of Communism? Hell yeah it was!!! What a damn short memory our Federal Government and Corporate America has when there is a quick buck to be made. :banghead:
I'll be damned if I buy a vehicle with a engine assembled in Communist China, yet alone the whole dang vehicle. My GMC was assembled in Canada, but I can live with that. There is a reason why they group American and Canadian parts content together on the window sticker of a new vehicle.
Canada is basically America lite. They are a first world country like us. They have the same basic standard of living and the same basic culture as we do here. We aren't losing jobs to Canada, because their workers there will not work for .60 cents an hour like in Communist China or $1.50 an hour like in Mexico.
IMO the Big 3 are losing the #1 thing they have going for them. That is their identity as an American made brand. Hell the way its going and if it comes down to it I'll buy a Toyota truck built in Indiana or a Nissan Truck built in Mississippi before I'll ever buy a Big 3 truck built in Mexico or Communist China!!!:banghead:
I'll be damned if I buy a vehicle with a engine assembled in Communist China, yet alone the whole dang vehicle. My GMC was assembled in Canada, but I can live with that. There is a reason why they group American and Canadian parts content together on the window sticker of a new vehicle.
Canada is basically America lite. They are a first world country like us. They have the same basic standard of living and the same basic culture as we do here. We aren't losing jobs to Canada, because their workers there will not work for .60 cents an hour like in Communist China or $1.50 an hour like in Mexico.
IMO the Big 3 are losing the #1 thing they have going for them. That is their identity as an American made brand. Hell the way its going and if it comes down to it I'll buy a Toyota truck built in Indiana or a Nissan Truck built in Mississippi before I'll ever buy a Big 3 truck built in Mexico or Communist China!!!:banghead:
QUOTE(Kawboy40 @ Jan 4 2007, 12:04 PM)
Nice. :banghead: Wasn't the whole point of the Korean War, Vietnam War, and Cold War but to stop the spread of Communism? Hell yeah it was!!! What a damn short memory our Federal Government and Corporate America has when there is a quick buck to be made. :banghead:
I'll be damned if I buy a vehicle with a engine assembled in Communist China, yet alone the whole dang vehicle. My GMC was assembled in Canada, but I can live with that. There is a reason why they group American and Canadian parts content together on the window sticker of a new vehicle.
Canada is basically America lite. They are a first world country like us. They have the same basic standard of living and the same basic culture as we do here. We aren't losing jobs to Canada, because their workers there will not work for .60 cents an hour like in Communist China or $1.50 an hour like in Mexico.
IMO the Big 3 are losing the #1 thing they have going for them. That is their identity as an American made brand. Hell the way its going and if it comes down to it I'll buy a Toyota truck built in Indiana or a Nissan Truck built in Mississippi before I'll ever buy a Big 3 truck built in Mexico or Communist China!!!:banghead:
I'll be damned if I buy a vehicle with a engine assembled in Communist China, yet alone the whole dang vehicle. My GMC was assembled in Canada, but I can live with that. There is a reason why they group American and Canadian parts content together on the window sticker of a new vehicle.
Canada is basically America lite. They are a first world country like us. They have the same basic standard of living and the same basic culture as we do here. We aren't losing jobs to Canada, because their workers there will not work for .60 cents an hour like in Communist China or $1.50 an hour like in Mexico.
IMO the Big 3 are losing the #1 thing they have going for them. That is their identity as an American made brand. Hell the way its going and if it comes down to it I'll buy a Toyota truck built in Indiana or a Nissan Truck built in Mississippi before I'll ever buy a Big 3 truck built in Mexico or Communist China!!!:banghead:
Exactly kawboy...that's why this is such a tough question to answer.
QUOTE(yamahauler @ Jan 4 2007, 10:24 AM)
Beagle, bluelakezr, you guys are spot on with your facts. Funny, I share the same view, but I get targeted for abuse by sheeple for saying the same things... guess it's just a personal thing.
saya has Toyo mech experience... I'd think good auto mechs could get a job nearly anywhere in the state, and stay busy?? Hard to move away from everything you know though. Wife had a job opp in Keewenaw for more than she makes down here (really nice bucks), but I couldn't pull the trigger on my kids at this point. Might regret it... :cn:
:beerchug:
saya has Toyo mech experience... I'd think good auto mechs could get a job nearly anywhere in the state, and stay busy??
Hard to move away from everything you know though. Wife had a job opp in Keewenaw for more than she makes down here (really nice bucks), but I couldn't pull the trigger on my kids at this point. Might regret it... :cn::beerchug:
D - it's because you're an easy target!! :smilielol:
As far as the Toyota mech...they don't break down!!! :no_bashing:
If you are looking to start a business in Northern Michigan, I would recommend exterior painting, roofing, and/or vinyl siding. Half the homes up there (not really fact, just an assumption) are vacation homes. My parents have a place on Higgins Lake that they have been improving over the past couple years (i.e. roof and plumbing) and there is really only one company to call for these needs. If you look at most of the homes on the lake, they are either stain or paint (mostly paint), and all of them have rooves. With a sprayer, good work ethic, and no employees, you could knock-down $2,500 per week, working only 4 days per week (4 long days). I did exterior painting in college and it is an industry with tremendous potential, especially if you are a good businessman. I managed 11 crews (Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, St. Joe, and Traverse City) and we did $385,000 in production in just 3 summer months. Professionals charge a boatload and there is a large market for the homeowner who wants it done as inexpensively as possible.
Regardless of what you do, I wish you the best of luck. Starting a business is certainly a fun ride. Also, look me up if you want someone to look-over the books of a potential business you are purchasing (complimentary). I do it for a living for a very large CPA firm. Best of luck!
Regardless of what you do, I wish you the best of luck. Starting a business is certainly a fun ride. Also, look me up if you want someone to look-over the books of a potential business you are purchasing (complimentary). I do it for a living for a very large CPA firm. Best of luck!
Buy a Auto dealership and F everybody that comes in from out of town!!
QUOTE(West Shore Drive @ Jan 4 2007, 03:45 PM)
Buy a Auto dealership and F everybody that comes in from out of town!!
That's nice!! :frech32:
QUOTE(West Shore Drive @ Jan 4 2007, 03:45 PM)
Buy a Auto dealership and F everybody that comes in from out of town!!
Fuel pump issue I presume?
That sucks, but I wouldn't do people like that!
QUOTE(XCDeluxe700 @ Jan 4 2007, 03:20 PM)
If you are looking to start a business in Northern Michigan, I would recommend exterior painting, roofing, and/or vinyl siding. Half the homes up there (not really fact, just an assumption) are vacation homes. My parents have a place on Higgins Lake that they have been improving over the past couple years (i.e. roof and plumbing) and there is really only one company to call for these needs. If you look at most of the homes on the lake, they are either stain or paint (mostly paint), and all of them have rooves. With a sprayer, good work ethic, and no employees, you could knock-down $2,500 per week, working only 4 days per week (4 long days). I did exterior painting in college and it is an industry with tremendous potential, especially if you are a good businessman. I managed 11 crews (Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, St. Joe, and Traverse City) and we did $385,000 in production in just 3 summer months. Professionals charge a boatload and there is a large market for the homeowner who wants it done as inexpensively as possible.
Regardless of what you do, I wish you the best of luck. Starting a business is certainly a fun ride. Also, look me up if you want someone to look-over the books of a potential business you are purchasing (complimentary). I do it for a living for a very large CPA firm. Best of luck!
Regardless of what you do, I wish you the best of luck. Starting a business is certainly a fun ride. Also, look me up if you want someone to look-over the books of a potential business you are purchasing (complimentary). I do it for a living for a very large CPA firm. Best of luck!
Thats a great idea :div20:
Low overhead and a good work ethic go a long, long way.
Anytime I need to get something done at the cottage it's like pulling teeth. Had a roof put on in November of '05, roof jacks didn't come off until June :frech32:, and I had to get a magnet and do most of the clean-up so my kids didn't take a nail to the foot.
Just another reminder to never pay in full until the job is complete :banghead:
I know it's hard NOT to but can we please leave the American vs. Import shit out of one
damn thread, pleeeeasssse. Sheesh...:banghead:
Secondly, Ron, I appriciate the offer but I would honestly look more towards the Gaylord/Grayling/Mancy
area first. And honestly, I just don't see that much money to be made up there in my
profession. I mean really, how many people up there buy new cars?? I worked in an Indy shop
before and although it was "gravy" work, when you needed the technical stuff, it was near impossible
to find.
I don't know. Getting a little more restless by the day. Need to do something soon. :drunk:
As for the building trades, I hear what people are saying about having a hard time trying to find
someone up there that is reputable. Most my friends with cabins/homes up north "import" home
repairman/carpenters from down by home because finding someone worth a shit up there is near
impossible it seems.
damn thread, pleeeeasssse. Sheesh...:banghead:
Secondly, Ron, I appriciate the offer but I would honestly look more towards the Gaylord/Grayling/Mancy
area first. And honestly, I just don't see that much money to be made up there in my
profession. I mean really, how many people up there buy new cars?? I worked in an Indy shop
before and although it was "gravy" work, when you needed the technical stuff, it was near impossible
to find.
I don't know. Getting a little more restless by the day. Need to do something soon. :drunk:
As for the building trades, I hear what people are saying about having a hard time trying to find
someone up there that is reputable. Most my friends with cabins/homes up north "import" home
repairman/carpenters from down by home because finding someone worth a shit up there is near
impossible it seems.
QUOTE(fxdwg @ Jan 4 2007, 06:06 AM)
Just give a big :bigfinger: to every import driver when you seem them.....just to say thanks for supporting the great state of Michigan.
Just like the Big 3 support the people of this state? Not! To the Big 3 I say :bigfinger:
What is worse? Buying an "import" made here in the U.S. or buying a "domestic" made in China or Maxico?
QUOTE(sayatodaU.P.eh? @ Jan 4 2007, 06:09 PM)
I know it's hard NOT to but can we please leave the American vs. Import shit out of one
damn thread, pleeeeasssse. Sheesh...:banghead:
Secondly, Ron, I appriciate the offer but I would honestly look more towards the Gaylord/Grayling/Mancy
area first. And honestly, I just don't see that much money to be made up there in my
profession. I mean really, how many people up there buy new cars?? I worked in an Indy shop
before and although it was "gravy" work, when you needed the technical stuff, it was near impossible
to find.
I don't know. Getting a little more restless by the day. Need to do something soon. :drunk:
As for the building trades, I hear what people are saying about having a hard time trying to find
someone up there that is reputable. Most my friends with cabins/homes up north "import" home
repairman/carpenters from down by home because finding someone worth a shit up there is near
impossible it seems.
damn thread, pleeeeasssse. Sheesh...:banghead:
Secondly, Ron, I appriciate the offer but I would honestly look more towards the Gaylord/Grayling/Mancy
area first. And honestly, I just don't see that much money to be made up there in my
profession. I mean really, how many people up there buy new cars?? I worked in an Indy shop
before and although it was "gravy" work, when you needed the technical stuff, it was near impossible
to find.
I don't know. Getting a little more restless by the day. Need to do something soon. :drunk:
As for the building trades, I hear what people are saying about having a hard time trying to find
someone up there that is reputable. Most my friends with cabins/homes up north "import" home
repairman/carpenters from down by home because finding someone worth a shit up there is near
impossible it seems.
Yeah you're right...all the builders,plumbers,roofers,electricians,painters, ect from "up north" aren't worth a shit. Maybe your asshole friends should export themselves back downstate and stay there. :bigfinger:
QUOTE(Judge Smales @ Jan 4 2007, 06:39 PM)
Yeah you're right...all the builders,plumbers,roofers,electricians,painters, ect from "up north" aren't worth a shit. Maybe your asshole friends should export themselves back downstate and stay there. :bigfinger:
Easy there big fella. No need to get all twisted up......
QUOTE(sayatodaU.P.eh? @ Jan 4 2007, 06:55 PM)
Easy there big fella. No need to get all twisted up......
Saya didn't say "all", but anyone that has tried to get anything done up there has to admit it is a pain. But it isn't that much better downstate if you cold call or are from out of the area. Just easier to get referrals and see that the people working on the house next door are actually working and the kind of work they do when you live in the big city.
Anyone that has a problem getting work done on their vacation home in the north ever stop to think maybe the people doing the work don't like downstaters? :tease: I have been asking around for 3 years to get a steel roof put on our rustic cabin, called a few places while up there for a week on vacation. They NEVER SHOWED!?!? Blew a whole family vacation day waiting for no shows.
Then my neighbor "up north", that my Dad has known his whole life owns a logging mill. RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO ME up there. 2 years ago I needed some large mature Oaks taken down to get some sun on the roof of our rustic cabin in the woods. I offered them to him FOR FREE, as well as about 40 mature pines that need to go, if he just had his son plow 1 acre of our field so I could plant some BioLogic. I am talking a 2 minute drive down our connecting 2 track from their barn to my field. It's actually closer to my cabin & field then from his Saw Mill/Barn to his home. And the field used to be farmed, so there is NOTHING in it except grass.
Well, the oaks are still there, the roof has moss, and I have no food plot
Maybe if & when I live up there I can do it all myself. I just feel priorities and the sense of urgency is much different in the North. Which is why people want to live there IMO. Screw this Rat Race. Win or Lose, you're still a Rat!!!
While I'm here...Saya' check out my miles for the winter in my profile to the left. :celebrating:
QUOTE(Judge Smales @ Jan 4 2007, 06:39 PM)
Yeah you're right...all the builders,plumbers,roofers,electricians,painters, ect from "up north" aren't worth a shit. Maybe your asshole friends should export themselves back downstate and stay there. :bigfinger:
Right on brother. i know i didnt make 6 digets down state. but i do here. i will never go down there again to live. you just have to be smarter than the people your working - with - for - agenst. there is a great living to be made up here. if you's didnt think so and want to bash us dumb people up here. stay there and stop every 200' for your next stop sign on your way to work and weight for 4 traffic light at each cross road. we dont care
Damn you guys are defensive.
I can't find anywhere were someone was called dumb? Did I miss something.
Now didn't I say: "I just feel priorities and the sense of urgency is much different in the North. Which is why people want to live there IMO. Screw this Rat Race. Win or Lose, you're still a Rat!!! "
Isn't that a compliment to people living the relaxed northern life?
I do not know ONE PERSON that I either have known my whole life or became friends with up at my place in Karlin that DID NOT succeed working for themself. To me, that says something about perserverance and adaptation. I just told my father yesterday that the NW Lower is about the only place I believe in Michigan you could go, open a business that people need, and not have it depend on tourism and the Auto Industry in this day and age.
On the other hand, I despise trying to get through Traverse City during their rush hour, especially in July! I refuse to go anywhere near that city when up there anymore. TO MUCH TRAFFIC. Traverse just isn't "Up North" anymore, it's mini Ann Arbor :no_bashing:
Still wish I had my steel roof and food plot though :cn:
I can't find anywhere were someone was called dumb? Did I miss something.
QUOTE
stay there and stop every 200' for your next stop sign on your way to work and weight for 4 traffic light at each cross road. we dont care
Now didn't I say: "I just feel priorities and the sense of urgency is much different in the North. Which is why people want to live there IMO. Screw this Rat Race. Win or Lose, you're still a Rat!!! "
Isn't that a compliment to people living the relaxed northern life?
I do not know ONE PERSON that I either have known my whole life or became friends with up at my place in Karlin that DID NOT succeed working for themself. To me, that says something about perserverance and adaptation. I just told my father yesterday that the NW Lower is about the only place I believe in Michigan you could go, open a business that people need, and not have it depend on tourism and the Auto Industry in this day and age.
On the other hand, I despise trying to get through Traverse City during their rush hour, especially in July! I refuse to go anywhere near that city when up there anymore. TO MUCH TRAFFIC. Traverse just isn't "Up North" anymore, it's mini Ann Arbor :no_bashing:
Still wish I had my steel roof and food plot though :cn:
QUOTE(catrules2000 @ Jan 4 2007, 09:22 AM)
That seems like a pretty ignorant statement.......
Within a few years, 100% of the Honda Vehicles sold in the USA will be COMPLETELY made in the USA while your Big 3 are looking overseas....
Don't get me wrong, I drive GM Vehicles. You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there....
Within a few years, 100% of the Honda Vehicles sold in the USA will be COMPLETELY made in the USA while your Big 3 are looking overseas....
Don't get me wrong, I drive GM Vehicles. You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there....
I couldn't agree more with you. Import vehicles are not the reason for our economy. Period
God forbid anything import was ever purchased. Like clothes, television, hi-fi stereo, the crap that Walmart sells. But for some reason it's easier to blame the import vehicles for the perdicument the states in. :frech32:
QUOTE(Beagle1 @ Jan 4 2007, 10:01 AM)
In Michigan? :smilielol: No thanks, I have a conscience. The only way to make mfg. work in Michigan is to outsource. Win a huge contract for $2 mil, outsource to BFE somewhere for $800,000 and pocket the difference. Happening every month here in the Great Lakes State :banghead:
Although I hear Tower may be coming out of bankruptcy? Wonder how many people are going to be cut, or if not the business relocated altogether.
Yes TC and Gaylord are trading back & forth for the fastest growing cities in Michigan, and at times, the country. Why can peoplle move up there? Well here is what I am seeing and what is being explained to me. The BUYOUTS. Many of the autoworkers that are retiring or being bought out are paying off their vacation home or it is already paid for. So there in lies the flooded market around metro Detroit. These folks are usually empty nesters, and are bailing out of here to live where they planned to when they retired, which is happening earlier.
Now, keep this in mind. Traverse City IMO is the role model for the rest of Michigan. No MIDDLE CLASS. Upper & Lower. Very few good paying middle of the road jobs. You either own a place or work for someone that does. "And a View of the Bay is Worth Half the Pay".
Golfer should be able to fill you in more on what & why things are happening in TC.
Saya buddy, I honestly think that in 2007 you could make it work in TC as a GM wrench. Either at William's Chevy or at the large independant down South Airport Road that is a huge GM repair shop. Can't remember the name. I kick myself sometimes now for not going into business with the friend I made from Iraq at the Ford Dealer when I lived up there in 1996. Yup, I said Iraq. Fred was a top notch guy (though not Muslim). He about begged me to go into business with him down on US 31. He's still up there, and doing well.
Saya, you want to venture up there in the spring, let me know. Maybe I can supply you with some free lodging and you can go sniff around for a job. If you were to move there, you'd have some instant connections too. As for housing. I would NOT live in Grand Traverse County. Taxes are to high. Live in Wexford, Benzie or Antrim and commute. None of those are to far from the auto repair hub of TC.
And if imports make your blood boil, you may not want to move to TC. Imports are the rule up there for cars, trucks are still mainly domestic. "Cause let's face it, there is no way an import truck can tow 8500# at 75mph :smilielol:
I should know by the end of summer if I have to move to TC or not. I will just take it hard in the rear with no KY when I go to sell my downstate house.
I am not going to get into this debate again "You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there...."...it's been beat to death.
But I will add what I have learned researching on the WWW while unemployed, and what I already know from my previous jobs and belonging to SAE. This is not BASHING, or taking sides, it is strictly for knowledge.
- Chrysler (DCX) is going to start building a bunch of vehicles IN CHINA and shipping them here. Should start to see them the end of this year. Don't know what the 1st digit of the VIN will be for that yet though.
-If you drive a GM vehicle with a 3.1 or 3.4 pushrod engine built in the last 2 years, your engine is fondly referred to as the "China V-6" , you can figure out why on your own.
-If you have a GM with a HF-V6, the engine was built in Australia or Canada.
-Lots of Ford & GM stuff comes from Mexico already. Including the manliest of all trucks, the Super Duties :banghead: Check your VIN for a 3 as the 1st digit before you freak out.
-GM is building and testing plenty of stuff in China to be exported here. One of my good friends from my last job had to go to China for 3 months to teach their people how to do OUR JOB :frech32: And my old department head is there now doing God knows what for them. GM has a ton of job listings to work & live in China and come back to the USA occasionally.
-There is a huge industrial park that was built in China for the automotive companies. I am talking Delphi, Bosch, Visteon, Ford, GM and DCX among the big names. Pretty much a smaller version of what Detroit was in it's hayday.
-In 2 years you should see your very 1st all Chinese designed and built car here in the U.S. for sale. It will be from a company called Cherry or something along those lines, not sure on the spelling.
Worst of all, over there their Auto Shows still dress the models in short dresses and low cut tops. Not here anymore, that's not PC.
If anyone would like to follow this saga of selling off Michigan one sector at a time, join SAE and receive the Automotive Engineering magazine. They now have dedicated a whole section to what's happening in China :wut60: You don't have to work in a place like I did to find all this out.
So...anyone want some fortune cookies now? It will read "America is selling out".
Although I hear Tower may be coming out of bankruptcy? Wonder how many people are going to be cut, or if not the business relocated altogether.
Yes TC and Gaylord are trading back & forth for the fastest growing cities in Michigan, and at times, the country. Why can peoplle move up there? Well here is what I am seeing and what is being explained to me. The BUYOUTS. Many of the autoworkers that are retiring or being bought out are paying off their vacation home or it is already paid for. So there in lies the flooded market around metro Detroit. These folks are usually empty nesters, and are bailing out of here to live where they planned to when they retired, which is happening earlier.
Now, keep this in mind. Traverse City IMO is the role model for the rest of Michigan. No MIDDLE CLASS. Upper & Lower. Very few good paying middle of the road jobs. You either own a place or work for someone that does. "And a View of the Bay is Worth Half the Pay".
Golfer should be able to fill you in more on what & why things are happening in TC.
Saya buddy, I honestly think that in 2007 you could make it work in TC as a GM wrench. Either at William's Chevy or at the large independant down South Airport Road that is a huge GM repair shop. Can't remember the name. I kick myself sometimes now for not going into business with the friend I made from Iraq at the Ford Dealer when I lived up there in 1996. Yup, I said Iraq. Fred was a top notch guy (though not Muslim). He about begged me to go into business with him down on US 31. He's still up there, and doing well.
Saya, you want to venture up there in the spring, let me know. Maybe I can supply you with some free lodging and you can go sniff around for a job. If you were to move there, you'd have some instant connections too. As for housing. I would NOT live in Grand Traverse County. Taxes are to high. Live in Wexford, Benzie or Antrim and commute. None of those are to far from the auto repair hub of TC.
And if imports make your blood boil, you may not want to move to TC. Imports are the rule up there for cars, trucks are still mainly domestic. "Cause let's face it, there is no way an import truck can tow 8500# at 75mph :smilielol:
I should know by the end of summer if I have to move to TC or not. I will just take it hard in the rear with no KY when I go to sell my downstate house.
I am not going to get into this debate again "You just can't blame "Imports" for your problems up there...."...it's been beat to death.
But I will add what I have learned researching on the WWW while unemployed, and what I already know from my previous jobs and belonging to SAE. This is not BASHING, or taking sides, it is strictly for knowledge.
- Chrysler (DCX) is going to start building a bunch of vehicles IN CHINA and shipping them here. Should start to see them the end of this year. Don't know what the 1st digit of the VIN will be for that yet though.
-If you drive a GM vehicle with a 3.1 or 3.4 pushrod engine built in the last 2 years, your engine is fondly referred to as the "China V-6" , you can figure out why on your own.
-If you have a GM with a HF-V6, the engine was built in Australia or Canada.
-Lots of Ford & GM stuff comes from Mexico already. Including the manliest of all trucks, the Super Duties :banghead: Check your VIN for a 3 as the 1st digit before you freak out.
-GM is building and testing plenty of stuff in China to be exported here. One of my good friends from my last job had to go to China for 3 months to teach their people how to do OUR JOB :frech32: And my old department head is there now doing God knows what for them. GM has a ton of job listings to work & live in China and come back to the USA occasionally.
-There is a huge industrial park that was built in China for the automotive companies. I am talking Delphi, Bosch, Visteon, Ford, GM and DCX among the big names. Pretty much a smaller version of what Detroit was in it's hayday.
-In 2 years you should see your very 1st all Chinese designed and built car here in the U.S. for sale. It will be from a company called Cherry or something along those lines, not sure on the spelling.
Worst of all, over there their Auto Shows still dress the models in short dresses and low cut tops. Not here anymore, that's not PC.
If anyone would like to follow this saga of selling off Michigan one sector at a time, join SAE and receive the Automotive Engineering magazine. They now have dedicated a whole section to what's happening in China :wut60: You don't have to work in a place like I did to find all this out.
So...anyone want some fortune cookies now? It will read "America is selling out".
Well put Beagle! :div20:
Ron...you asked about Alpena, so I'll give you my opinions of Alpena, pro's and con's as I see it. My wife grew up there, we're up there about once a month, just recently during the holidays. She still has a couple dozen relatives there.
Pro's.
-no rushhour traffic
-fairly inexpensive land
-2 large lakes north of town (Long Lake and Grand Lake), both great for boating
-2 snowmobile trails, one leading west to Atlanta, other leading NW towards Millersburg. Both are railtrails.
-most conveniences of living in the "big city"
-college classes at ACC
-fairly large regional hospital
Con's.
-nothing really there that brings in the tourists
-Thunder Bay is not really a destination
-the pressboard plant really stinks up the city at times
-not much for jobs, largest employers are Lafarge, Abatibe?, hospital, school, and of course the walmart & home depot. So...if you are not a teacher, nurse, doctor, or business owner, what is there?
-Alpena public school used to have 650-700 students per grade in the early 1980's, now down to 350-400 per grade. Maybe a combo of people leaving the area + the "good catholic" familys are just having fewer kids now.
Yes, we would possibly consider moving there in the future, but only on our terms. Probably not anytime soon though.
Pro's.
-no rushhour traffic
-fairly inexpensive land
-2 large lakes north of town (Long Lake and Grand Lake), both great for boating
-2 snowmobile trails, one leading west to Atlanta, other leading NW towards Millersburg. Both are railtrails.
-most conveniences of living in the "big city"
-college classes at ACC
-fairly large regional hospital
Con's.
-nothing really there that brings in the tourists
-Thunder Bay is not really a destination
-the pressboard plant really stinks up the city at times
-not much for jobs, largest employers are Lafarge, Abatibe?, hospital, school, and of course the walmart & home depot. So...if you are not a teacher, nurse, doctor, or business owner, what is there?
-Alpena public school used to have 650-700 students per grade in the early 1980's, now down to 350-400 per grade. Maybe a combo of people leaving the area + the "good catholic" familys are just having fewer kids now.
Yes, we would possibly consider moving there in the future, but only on our terms. Probably not anytime soon though.
QUOTE(snowburner1 @ Jan 4 2007, 09:13 PM)
I couldn't agree more with you. Import vehicles are not the reason for our economy. Period
God forbid anything import was ever purchased. Like clothes, television, hi-fi stereo, the crap that Walmart sells. But for some reason it's easier to blame the import vehicles for the perdicument the states in. :frech32:
God forbid anything import was ever purchased. Like clothes, television, hi-fi stereo, the crap that Walmart sells. But for some reason it's easier to blame the import vehicles for the perdicument the states in. :frech32:
Well....how did this state get into this situation then....
Enlighten me.
QUOTE(twostrokesmoke @ Jan 4 2007, 07:47 PM)
Right on brother. i know i didnt make 6 digets down state. but i do here. i will never go down there again to live. you just have to be smarter than the people your working - with - for - agenst. there is a great living to be made up here. if you's didnt think so and want to bash us dumb people up here. stay there and stop every 200' for your next stop sign on your way to work and weight for 4 traffic light at each cross road. we dont care
Oh for Christs sake, you guys are talkin' like I personally insulted you. PERSONALLY. :banghead:
Nothing personal ment to anyone here, nothing. Maybe I'm jealous cause you guys don't
have to deal with the "stop every 200' for your next stop sign" and you get to
ride from your door. AGAIN, I would LOVE to live up there but I guess I am too STUPID
to figure out how to make the money up there so I will have to stay down here...... :frech32:
RELAX. :div20:
:beerchug:
P.S. Ron, your mileage stat is just wrong........:drunk:
QUOTE(Beagle1 @ Jan 4 2007, 12:01 PM)
Okay Dennis...you owe me one for hopping on the Chicken Little Bandwagon. But I am getting the hell off of it and figuring out how to do something.
Wow, you saved me alot of work bro! Not really a bandwagon, just a rough fact of life in MI... :div20:QUOTE(Kawboy40 @ Jan 4 2007, 12:04 PM)
Canada is basically America lite.
:smilielol:QUOTE(B00st @ Jan 4 2007, 01:01 PM)
D - it's because you're an easy target!! :smilielol:
I'm not afraid to tell it like it is... never read "How to win friends and influence people"... :smilielol:QUOTE(Beagle1 @ Jan 4 2007, 07:36 PM)
Well, the oaks are still there, the roof has moss
Put zinc strips on... about $50, 15 min... moss be gone! :div20: I did my own cottage roof in 1.5 days myself last Labor Day. Hmm, maybe I should do side work up there... bring downstater money back downstate? :cn:QUOTE(fxdwg @ Jan 4 2007, 09:58 PM)
Well....how did this state get into this situation then....
Enlighten me.
By selling our dies/tools to China... :banghead:Enlighten me.
:beerchug:
Sorry fellas but the downstate atittude does tend to get under our skin but I have nothing against downstaters...we do alot of work for them as Charlevoix is a tourist town. As you guys said not all of us up here are slow and unreliable conversely not all downstaters are assholes. :div20:
QUOTE(West Shore Drive @ Jan 4 2007, 04:45 PM)
Buy a Auto dealership and F everybody that comes in from out of town!!
Just VENTING from a recent experience!! I DON"T believe F'n out of town cust's is really the norm.
QUOTE(XCDeluxe700 @ Jan 4 2007, 04:20 PM)
If you are looking to start a business in Northern Michigan, I would recommend exterior painting, roofing, and/or vinyl siding. Half the homes up there (not really fact, just an assumption) are vacation homes. My parents have a place on Higgins Lake that they have been improving over the past couple years (i.e. roof and plumbing) and there is really only one company to call for these needs. If you look at most of the homes on the lake, they are either stain or paint (mostly paint), and all of them have rooves. With a sprayer, good work ethic, and no employees, you could knock-down $2,500 per week, working only 4 days per week (4 long days). I did exterior painting in college and it is an industry with tremendous potential, especially if you are a good businessman. I managed 11 crews (Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, St. Joe, and Traverse City) and we did $385,000 in production in just 3 summer months. Professionals charge a boatload and there is a large market for the homeowner who wants it done as inexpensively as possible.
Regardless of what you do, I wish you the best of luck. Starting a business is certainly a fun ride. Also, look me up if you want someone to look-over the books of a potential business you are purchasing (complimentary). I do it for a living for a very large CPA firm. Best of luck!
Regardless of what you do, I wish you the best of luck. Starting a business is certainly a fun ride. Also, look me up if you want someone to look-over the books of a potential business you are purchasing (complimentary). I do it for a living for a very large CPA firm. Best of luck!
If you'r thinking about getting into remod. or roofing .. get ahold of me.. been in the bus. for 18 yrs. Between the shit economy and installed sales (ex lumber yards, home depot, ect ) Things have taken a BIG dive in the last couple of yrs. GOOD LUCK in whatever you choose!!! Mike
QUOTE(West Shore Drive @ Jan 5 2007, 09:19 AM)
Just VENTING from a recent experience!! I DON"T believe F'n out of town cust's is really the norm.
Don't be so sure about what 'out of towners' (or women) might get hit with. Wife took car into Petoskey dealership for Check Engine light. Dealer diagnosed and wanted almost $400 to replace fuel pump, misc other stuff. I told the wife that if car was working, drive it home. Took it to local dealership where we bought it, mechanic told me the gas cap wasn't on tight. No charge ..... That's enough to raise your blood pressure.
QUOTE(PolarisRider @ Jan 5 2007, 09:51 AM)
Don't be so sure about what 'out of towners' (or women) might get hit with. Wife took car into Petoskey dealership for Check Engine light. Dealer diagnosed and wanted almost $400 to replace fuel pump, misc other stuff. I told the wife that if car was working, drive it home. Took it to local dealership where we bought it, mechanic told me the gas cap wasn't on tight. No charge ..... That's enough to raise your blood pressure.
What dealership...if you feel like naming names. :div20:
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