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MTM
QUOTE
Trouble on the trails
A proposal to ban all-terrain vehicles from trails beside the headwaters of the Mississippi is pitting riders against environmental advocates and canoeists, and could shift how Minnesota manages public land for recreation.




As snow swirled at Stumphges Rapids campground in Mississippi Headwaters State Forest, flurries began coating a "No Motorized Vehicles" sign yanked from the ground and lying on its side.
Boulders had been set across a trail to block all-terrain vehicles, but two of the rocks had been pulled away. Meanwhile, across the Mississippi River, a deep gouge in the side of a sandy bluff showed where ATVs had climbed the slope repeatedly to reach the top

Winter is setting in, but the scars of last summer remain.

Alarmed about damage from off-road driving in the cradle of the Mississippi, canoeists and environmental advocates are making an extraordinary request: They want Minnesota officials to close a large state forest to ATVs for the first time.

The Headwaters Forest, which contains most of the Mississippi's first 40 miles beyond its source at Lake Itasca, is a pristine canoe route of national importance, they say. But groups representing the state's nearly 250,000 ATV riders, whose ranks have grown 60 percent in the past four years, oppose a closure. The step would set a precedent for keeping them out of other state forests, they say, adding that riders need more trails, not fewer.

The emerging debate over the Headwaters could be a flashpoint in Minnesota's ongoing effort to balance ATV use and environmental protection in millions of acres of state forest.

"It has been, and will continue to be, the most contentious issue we're facing and one of the most important," Gene Merriam, outgoing commissioner of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, said Friday.

It's a clash similar to many others on public lands across the country that's pitting recreationists out for motorized thrills in the wild against hikers, canoeists and birdwatchers demanding more quiet.

The state has the daunting task of figuring out how the groups can share the woods they all love.

Infant river

The Headwaters Forest is relatively narrow, following the corridor of the fledgling Mississippi as it riffles across rocks and meanders through boreal woods on its way toward Bemidji. Between patches of forest, the river opens unexpectedly into marshes and bogs, where hundreds of acres of cattails and cane grass and wild rice make it difficult to follow the disappearing channel.

"It's the most pristine section of river you can still find in the state, and maybe along the entire Mississippi," said Barry Babcock, a member of the Headwaters Canoe Club who knows the area well. "It's kind of a hidden jewel."

The area's rich wildlife includes wolves, eagles, osprey, goshawks, songbirds, trumpeter swans, owls and a dozen species of ducks, Babcock said. The 45,290-acre Headwaters Forest also has the distinction of sheltering the upper reaches of the nation's longest and most fabled river.

DNR northwest region manager Mike Carroll said the agency realizes the significance of the headwaters for canoeing and other quiet pursuits, but seeks to provide opportunities for all users.

State law requires the DNR to inventory roads and trails in all 58 state forests by the end of 2008, and to decide which should become part of a trail system and which should not.

In plans finalized so far, the agency has approved 386 miles of trails for ATVs in eight of the state's 58 forests, in addition to more than a thousand miles of dirt roads available in those forests.

The DNR rarely closes entire forests to ATVs; it has closed a few in areas that are inaccessible or too small for driving, and one in north-central Minnesota near Brainerd used for decades by horseback riders. Closure of a forest affects ATVs, dirt bikes and off-road trucks, but not snowmobiles on designated routes, according to DNR rules.

Carroll said the agency won't be ready to announce its recommendations for the Mississippi Headwaters Forest until next spring, but has been soliciting early public advice. More than 50 people have written letters so far, and all but one of them favored closing the area to ATVs.


Looks like some letter writing is in order.
trailhawk100
Yup I'd say... Goes to show it only takes a few to ruin it for the majority
snopro734
U know something, the worst god damned thing they did was put up that fucking BWCA and The OHV Park. Give them an inch, they take a fucking mile. sorry for the language. I love the BWCA, gorgeous area. But Canoeist for the most part, are, and will be, Tree Huggers!!!

I love taking a wheeler thru huge swamps, someone have a problem with that? come fucking talk to me. I'm sick of these ppl taking away priveledges so to speak.

I understand it only takes a few to ruin a good thing, but punishing everyone isnt the right way either. Who is gonna dodge every splash of water they come across on an ATV ???
MXZRIDR
QUOTE(snopro734 @ Dec 10 2006, 11:45 AM) *
U know something, the worst god damned thing they did was put up that fucking BWCA and The OHV Park. Give them an inch, they take a fucking mile. sorry for the language. I love the BWCA, gorgeous area. But Canoeist for the most part, are, and will be, Tree Huggers!!!

I love taking a wheeler thru huge swamps, someone have a problem with that? come fucking talk to me. I'm sick of these ppl taking away priveledges so to speak.

I understand it only takes a few to ruin a good thing, but punishing everyone isnt the right way either. Who is gonna dodge every splash of water they come across on an ATV ???



Snopro, I'm a canoeist and I'm about the farthest you could possibly be from a tree-hugger!! I love having a twelvie on ice in the cooler sitting right in front of me while I'm paddling in the B-Dub. I think it's bullshit also that these morons have to fight to kill everything that involves the burning of fossil fuels. If someone on a wheeler tears up some f-ing grass why should they even give a shit?? The reason why is (IMO) they hate the freedom of movement through the wilderness that the wheelers provide!!! Just like when the Sierra Club fought to not have the BWCA blowdown area cleaned up. I think they should have had their pow-wow in the middle of the blo-down and have it lit on fire to see how they'd like it !!!! The trouble is they have lots of $ backing their cause.
f7snoprobro
The worst part of it all, is when the DNR comes on your own property, and tells you where you can and can't ride. That is taking it way to far.
Ice Man
QUOTE(snopro734 @ Dec 10 2006, 01:45 PM) *
U know something, the worst god damned thing they did was put up that fucking BWCA and The OHV Park. Give them an inch, they take a fucking mile. sorry for the language. I love the BWCA, gorgeous area. But Canoeist for the most part, are, and will be, Tree Huggers!!!

I love taking a wheeler thru huge swamps, someone have a problem with that? come fucking talk to me. I'm sick of these ppl taking away priveledges so to speak.

I understand it only takes a few to ruin a good thing, but punishing everyone isnt the right way either. Who is gonna dodge every splash of water they come across on an ATV ???



I certainly understand your point. I have a Sportsman 700 EFI up at my lake place and it's fun in summer or winter and I follow the current laws while riding it.

I think that the issue is that there are established rules regarding the BWCA and wetlands. The problem is that there are too many dumb f*cks that ignore the current laws. This only fuels the anti-ATV activists arguments and will result in the closuer of current riding areas to everyone. It's the only way to insure that the laws will be followed. There never will be enough conservation officers to eforce all of the areas.

The best thing we can do is kick the asses of the morons who are wrecking it for everyone.
MTM
Im all for atv riding wherever...but....I dont think you should be allowed to hunt grouse from one unless you are handicapped. Me and my son walk trails for miles in the woods and it sucks when some dude on a 4 wheeler comes and passed us up. Sure they have a legal right to, but I question the ethics of it. I'd like to see some more trails made into walking only for hunting like they have up around Black Duck and Elephant lake. 4 wheelers and trucks make ruts so bad on some trails that when its wet its literally dangerous to walk. But there are so many trails around here to ride that closing a few off just for hunting wouldnt matter at all. Then if someone wants to hike those same trails they can and maybe they wont bitch and write letters to try to ban 4 wheelers from every trail in the state.
snopro734
QUOTE(MXZRIDR @ Dec 12 2006, 01:25 PM) *
Snopro, I'm a canoeist and I'm about the farthest you could possibly be from a tree-hugger!! I love having a twelvie on ice in the cooler sitting right in front of me while I'm paddling in the B-Dub. I think it's bullshit also that these morons have to fight to kill everything that involves the burning of fossil fuels. If someone on a wheeler tears up some f-ing grass why should they even give a shit?? The reason why is (IMO) they hate the freedom of movement through the wilderness that the wheelers provide!!! Just like when the Sierra Club fought to not have the BWCA blowdown area cleaned up. I think they should have had their pow-wow in the middle of the blo-down and have it lit on fire to see how they'd like it !!!! The trouble is they have lots of $ backing their cause.


ok, i came off kinda strong... i didnt mean all canoeist are bad.... just 99.9% are. u know? i've boated ppl aross Lac Lacrioux (sp), canoed up there myself, as well as other lakes. I'm just making the point of you give them an inch, they take a mile.

QUOTE(Ice Man @ Dec 12 2006, 02:51 PM) *
I certainly understand your point. I have a Sportsman 700 EFI up at my lake place and it's fun in summer or winter and I follow the current laws while riding it.

I think that the issue is that there are established rules regarding the BWCA and wetlands. The problem is that there are too many dumb f*cks that ignore the current laws. This only fuels the anti-ATV activists arguments and will result in the closuer of current riding areas to everyone. It's the only way to insure that the laws will be followed. There never will be enough conservation officers to eforce all of the areas.

The best thing we can do is kick the asses of the morons who are wrecking it for everyone.


:beerchug: , but in the same instance, i love riding the wheelers across the biggest swamps i can find. its something i enjoy, and wont give up.

QUOTE(MTM @ Dec 12 2006, 02:55 PM) *
Im all for atv riding wherever...but....I dont think you should be allowed to hunt grouse from one unless you are handicapped. Me and my son walk trails for miles in the woods and it sucks when some dude on a 4 wheeler comes and passed us up. Sure they have a legal right to, but I question the ethics of it. I'd like to see some more trails made into walking only for hunting like they have up around Black Duck and Elephant lake. 4 wheelers and trucks make ruts so bad on some trails that when its wet its literally dangerous to walk. But there are so many trails around here to ride that closing a few off just for hunting wouldnt matter at all. Then if someone wants to hike those same trails they can and maybe they wont bitch and write letters to try to ban 4 wheelers from every trail in the state.


:celebrating: i agree man.
MXZRIDR
QUOTE(MTM @ Dec 12 2006, 02:55 PM) *
Im all for atv riding wherever...but....I dont think you should be allowed to hunt grouse from one unless you are handicapped. Me and my son walk trails for miles in the woods and it sucks when some dude on a 4 wheeler comes and passed us up. Sure they have a legal right to, but I question the ethics of it. I'd like to see some more trails made into walking only for hunting like they have up around Black Duck and Elephant lake. 4 wheelers and trucks make ruts so bad on some trails that when its wet its literally dangerous to walk. But there are so many trails around here to ride that closing a few off just for hunting wouldnt matter at all. Then if someone wants to hike those same trails they can and maybe they wont bitch and write letters to try to ban 4 wheelers from every trail in the state.



Yeah that pisses me off too! I hate walking a trail back into the woods only to have someone on a wheeler coming out of where you are headed on foot. :banghead: Kinda fucks your hunting plan. Trouble is more and more public land is disappearing and in the very near future you will have to know someone to let you on their land to be able to hunt.
Ice Man
QUOTE(MTM @ Dec 12 2006, 04:55 PM) *
Im all for atv riding wherever...but....I dont think you should be allowed to hunt grouse from one unless you are handicapped. Me and my son walk trails for miles in the woods and it sucks when some dude on a 4 wheeler comes and passed us up. Sure they have a legal right to, but I question the ethics of it. I'd like to see some more trails made into walking only for hunting like they have up around Black Duck and Elephant lake. 4 wheelers and trucks make ruts so bad on some trails that when its wet its literally dangerous to walk. But there are so many trails around here to ride that closing a few off just for hunting wouldnt matter at all. Then if someone wants to hike those same trails they can and maybe they wont bitch and write letters to try to ban 4 wheelers from every trail in the state.



I couldn't agree with you more. I do a lot of hunting as well and cracked a guy on an ATV with a stick while he was flying by us and almost ran over one of my pointers. There's no excuse to drive by people who are walking on trails that fast. He then made the mistake of stopping.
farmereddie
QUOTE(Ice Man @ Dec 12 2006, 06:41 PM) *
I couldn't agree with you more. I do a lot of hunting as well and cracked a guy on an ATV with a stick while he was flying by us and almost ran over one of my pointers. There's no excuse to drive by people who are walking on trails that fast. He then made the mistake of stopping.


Then what .........don't leave me there hang'n . well.................. :cn:
Ice Man
QUOTE(farmereddie @ Dec 12 2006, 10:13 PM) *
Then what .........don't leave me there hang'n . well.................. :cn:



He got his ass kicked, badly. Two types of guys; Ones that like to talk and ones that will rock 'n roll without saying a word.

Never fuck with another guys; hunting dogs, stuff, or family.

I was in a bar in Miller SD this year as we were out there pheasant hunting. One of the guys I was with is a SEAL buddy of mine who leads SEAL team 8. He's been deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq since January of 2002. He specializes in demolition and sniping (I've got a great pic of a rag head he snipped with a .50 trying to suicide bomb their camp.) Anyway, Dave had a SEAL shirt on and some liberal local started in on the war and Dave sat there and said nothing. The guy then went on to make some comment on how Dave wasn't very big and also made some other remarks trying to provoke him. We decided to leave as this was going nowhere and as we walked out side, Gave let his GSP out of the truck to pee and the guy who had followed us out made a comment about how ugly Dave's dog was. Dave fucked that guy up pretty bad over that.

Get the point?
MTM
QUOTE(Ice Man @ Dec 13 2006, 05:39 PM) *
He got his ass kicked, badly. Two types of guys; Ones that like to talk and ones that will rock 'n roll without saying a word.

Never fuck with another guys; hunting dogs, stuff, or family.

I was in a bar in Miller SD this year as we were out there pheasant hunting. One of the guys I was with is a SEAL buddy of mine who leads SEAL team 8. He's been deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq since January of 2002. He specializes in demolition and sniping (I've got a great pic of a rag head he snipped with a .50 trying to suicide bomb their camp.) Anyway, Dave had a SEAL shirt on and some liberal local started in on the war and Dave sat there and said nothing. The guy then went on to make some comment on how Dave wasn't very big and also made some other remarks trying to provoke him. We decided to leave as this was going nowhere and as we walked out side, Gave let his GSP out of the truck to pee and the guy who had followed us out made a comment about how ugly Dave's dog was. Dave fucked that guy up pretty bad over that.

Get the point?



lol.

Do you grouse hunt by Cook?
outfisherman
But why is THIS ATV thread on the SNOWMOBILE forum???????
stevefromwestford
QUOTE(MTM @ Dec 12 2006, 03:55 PM) *
Im all for atv riding wherever...but....I dont think you should be allowed to hunt grouse from one unless you are handicapped. Me and my son walk trails for miles in the woods and it sucks when some dude on a 4 wheeler comes and passed us up. Sure they have a legal right to, but I question the ethics of it. I'd like to see some more trails made into walking only for hunting like they have up around Black Duck and Elephant lake. 4 wheelers and trucks make ruts so bad on some trails that when its wet its literally dangerous to walk. But there are so many trails around here to ride that closing a few off just for hunting wouldnt matter at all. Then if someone wants to hike those same trails they can and maybe they wont bitch and write letters to try to ban 4 wheelers from every trail in the state.

Be careful what ya ask for . Was reading my local paper letters to the editer and 1 letter was a lady bitching that she cant walk in the woods without hearing the blast of guns. This selfish bitch gets 45 weeks a yr to walk in quiet , but she also wants hunting season too. fuck her.
Ice Man
QUOTE(MTM @ Dec 13 2006, 07:56 PM) *
lol.

Do you grouse hunt by Cook?



Yes, the grouse hunting has been very good this year. It's even better off the Gunflint trail north of Grand Marais.

QUOTE(outfisherman @ Dec 14 2006, 04:58 AM) *
But why is THIS ATV thread on the SNOWMOBILE forum???????



Because none of us are riding our sleds?

It felt like late April when I walked outside this morning.

WTF?
FIREBALL 440
I wonder if the DNR is still planning to build that 70 mile ATV trail near Duluth?
sbkdrew
QUOTE(FIREBALL 440 @ Dec 14 2006, 10:10 AM) *
I wonder if the DNR is still planning to build that 70 mile ATV trail near Duluth?


Any details, what do you know about this? I'm kinda curious.
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