Can someone confirm if the Forest Glen trail has been closed by DNR. I know there was talk about Rocky Brook
but heard that Forest Glen was closed or is going to be closed.
What's the story??
Full Version: Rocky Brook and Forest Glen
HCS Snowmobile Forums > State and Province Snowmobile Forums > Canadian Snowmobile Forums > Nova Scotia
Anybody? 
I don't know these trails, but are they in a Wilderness Protected area? If so, they might have been. I'm getting stories that DOE has just clamped down on long time exisiting trails in protected areas, and the stay out signs are going up. This will hurt us.
QUOTE(ns503 @ Dec 11 2006, 09:50 PM) 
I don't know these trails, but are they in a Wilderness Protected area? If so, they might have been. I'm getting stories that DOE has just clamped down on long time exisiting trails in protected areas, and the stay out signs are going up. This will hurt us.
Yes they are and one of them has been a long and I mean long time trail and maybe even a road at one time and also there is talk that the new 104 that our local club built with government funding, which use to pass through JIM CAMPBELSS BARREN (Wilderness Protected Area) and is used by ATVs in the summer and snowmobiles in the winter, that SANS wants no ATV traffic on this new trail and from what I understand they mean for all 4 seasons which cuts off a new major trail to the Highlands here.
I hope there's no truth to this because it sure will upset quite a few ATVers and Snowmobilers who use this trail as a essential ATV access trail to the Highlands and area.
Well if your club built the trail I'd be making sure it was open 12 months of the year, so everyone can ATV and snowmobile on it. It just makes no sense to build a trail for one and not the other, that just increases costs for everyone and leads to bad feelings down the road, especially if an ATV club builds a good trail that snowmobilers want to use. :div20:
QUOTE(Formula 670 @ Dec 12 2006, 08:22 AM)
Well if your club built the trail I'd be making sure it was open 12 months of the year, so everyone can ATV and snowmobile on it. It just makes no sense to build a trail for one and not the other, that just increases costs for everyone and leads to bad feelings down the road, especially if an ATV club builds a good trail that snowmobilers want to use. :div20:
I would like to hear some comments from Laurie or smclelan and if there is any truth to what SANS has planed for the new 104.
New 104 Topic
QUOTE(RenegadeRider @ Dec 12 2006, 09:46 AM)
I would like to hear some comments from Laurie or smclelan and if there is any truth to what SANS has planed for the new 104.
New 104 Topic
New 104 Topic
I think the trail will be closed for for a specific period during the winter months for ATV's but the 104 that leads up to the Highland is the only access trail to 3 camps. I'm not sure if this trail that leads up to them is on Crownland but I heard today that any SANS trails that is on Crownland will have this ATV ban in place during there specified dates.
The Forest Glen trail is still open. What was known as the Rocky Brook Trail is in a protected area and is no longer an Off Highway Vehicle Trail.
As for the new trail around the Barren. It was built as a snowmobile trail and it is part of the SANS agreement with the province.
A very small part of the trail ( the part were the bridge is located) is still in the protected area. This small part is were the concern for ATVer's arrises. Under the act there is no allowances for ATV trails in protected areas.
It has always been our intent to have the trail permitted for both uses and it makes sense to allow ATV traffic on this trail as it provides for passage around the sensitive areas.
There is a gray area there with respect to ATV's in this small part of the trail. I am trying to address the problem and feel there will be a solution, hopefully soon.
If you have a copy of the new map it shows the barren and protected area and you can see just were the trail goes into the barren.
We had to build the trail there as it was the only way through the area.
We will keep working on the issue.
As for the new trail around the Barren. It was built as a snowmobile trail and it is part of the SANS agreement with the province.
A very small part of the trail ( the part were the bridge is located) is still in the protected area. This small part is were the concern for ATVer's arrises. Under the act there is no allowances for ATV trails in protected areas.
It has always been our intent to have the trail permitted for both uses and it makes sense to allow ATV traffic on this trail as it provides for passage around the sensitive areas.
There is a gray area there with respect to ATV's in this small part of the trail. I am trying to address the problem and feel there will be a solution, hopefully soon.
If you have a copy of the new map it shows the barren and protected area and you can see just were the trail goes into the barren.
We had to build the trail there as it was the only way through the area.
We will keep working on the issue.
QUOTE(lcran @ Dec 13 2006, 08:24 AM)
The Forest Glen trail is still open. What was known as the Rocky Brook Trail is in a protected area and is no longer an Off Highway Vehicle Trail.
As for the new trail around the Barren. It was built as a snowmobile trail and it is part of the SANS agreement with the province.
A very small part of the trail ( the part were the bridge is located) is still in the protected area. This small part is were the concern for ATVer's arrises. Under the act there is no allowances for ATV trails in protected areas.
It has always been our intent to have the trail permitted for both uses and it makes sense to allow ATV traffic on this trail as it provides for passage around the sensitive areas.
There is a gray area there with respect to ATV's in this small part of the trail. I am trying to address the problem and feel there will be a solution, hopefully soon.
If you have a copy of the new map it shows the barren and protected area and you can see just were the trail goes into the barren.
We had to build the trail there as it was the only way through the area.
We will keep working on the issue.
As for the new trail around the Barren. It was built as a snowmobile trail and it is part of the SANS agreement with the province.
A very small part of the trail ( the part were the bridge is located) is still in the protected area. This small part is were the concern for ATVer's arrises. Under the act there is no allowances for ATV trails in protected areas.
It has always been our intent to have the trail permitted for both uses and it makes sense to allow ATV traffic on this trail as it provides for passage around the sensitive areas.
There is a gray area there with respect to ATV's in this small part of the trail. I am trying to address the problem and feel there will be a solution, hopefully soon.
If you have a copy of the new map it shows the barren and protected area and you can see just were the trail goes into the barren.
We had to build the trail there as it was the only way through the area.
We will keep working on the issue.
Thanks Laurie and we look forward to the updates.
So will there be specific dates set where ATV traffic will not be allowed on SANS trails during the winter months and can a ATV that is setup with a snowmobile track system be allowed to buy a SANS trail pass.
Click to view attachment
To date nothing has been decided around shared trail however I feel it needs to be soon. We need to have SANS and ATVANS in discussions.
As for the ATV with tracks thats a good question and one I havn't discussed to date. I'll keep it in mind.
Thanks.
As for the ATV with tracks thats a good question and one I havn't discussed to date. I'll keep it in mind.
Thanks.
Like I've said before, I think the main obstacle (probably the only real one) to shared trails is landowner permission. Also might be a reason that a tracked quad might not be allowed on a trail, although I've never even thought about that one before. We all know there's not much difference between them and a sled (except maybe a colder ride), but it's still an ATV in the eyes of many a fussy landowner. ATVANS, and subsequent member clubs, IMO, are the ones that need to get themselves in order, and start addressing the landowner permission issues. There can't possibly be co-operation if landowners don't want them on their land.
Relax there, easy boy!!! Rocky Brook trail crosses a protected area which is on crown land, so yes it's "closed" so to speak. We can't groom it, apart from that I'll be surprised if you see any changes. Forest Glen is all on private land, so DNR can't just close it. It's protected to some degree, but then so it all of the Margaree River watershed. Forest Glen trail will still be groomed as usual with no changes.
QUOTE(Red Rooster @ Dec 17 2006, 10:47 AM)
Relax there, easy boy!!! Rocky Brook trail crosses a protected area which is on crown land, so yes it's "closed" so to speak. We can't groom it, apart from that I'll be surprised if you see any changes. Forest Glen is all on private land, so DNR can't just close it. It's protected to some degree, but then so it all of the Margaree River watershed. Forest Glen trail will still be groomed as usual with no changes.
Thanks RR
Inquiring minds just wanted to know :beer:
Well since this a thread concerning trails, I'd like to take the chance to ask a couple of Questions and hopefully bring up a discussion on Wilderness Protected areas. Especially since there's a couple of club presidents and also the SANS president on here.
There's a lot of us on this Forum from Noth of the National Park. Places like Neils Harbour, Dingwall, Cape North, Sugarloaf, Bay St.Lawerence and Pleasant Bay. As we all know Snowmobiling in the Cape Breton Highlands National Park is strictly prohibited. Why?? I dunno. There are a few National Parks across Canada (Gross Morne and Jasper for sure) that do allow it and benefit greatly from it as a means to get people to visit those Parks in the Winter time. Providing jobs, revenue and a different look at the park from a winter perspective. All postive things. .
Now.. CBHNP refuses to allow winter to help them create a multi-season recreation area. Sure there's the odd cross country skier that uses the park. (on a side note, it has been proven that animals run farther away from a slow moving human that takes sevearl minutes to pass by than from a snomobile that only interupts for a few moments) but other than that the park goes largely unused for the winter. 950 square kilometers of untouched wilderness.
OK...getting back on track. We know we'll never be allowed to snowmobile in the CBHNP as long as the current manager in Ingonish is in chage. Nothing against Mr.Reynolds, but he's not the best that the Park has ever had. (anyone see the shitty patch job on the Lone Sheiling? The area around the Lone Sheiling was the first parcel of land donated to the National Park system and the plaque there indictaes that in order to keep the land, the park must build and MAINTAIN a replica of the Lone Sheiling on the Isle of Skye in Scotland, If I were a MacIntosh I'd be building a house right in the middle of the park, unless they began to co-operate)... but what about the newly created Pollettes Cove /Aspy Fault Wilderness Protected area?
Since I've had a snowmobile, 1987, I've been skidooing on the Crown land north my home. Just like everyone else whos had a snowmobile in PB, I've been traveling to the Big Lake, Pollettes Cove gulch, the camp and all over this area. Just like the people on the eastern side of the island, traveling to McEvoys Barren, Maceacherns lake and so on. Then in the late 90's along come a group of enviromentalists, from probably south-end Halifax, and decide that everything North of the Park will now be a Wilderness Protected Area. There was some consultation with locals, but they did not listen to any of our concerns and eventually it lead to vandalism and some violence. Ending of course in the new Pollettes Cove-Aspy Fault Wilderness Protected Area.
So now all recreational motorvechicals are prohibited. No more trips to the camp or to the lakes. So no traveling up the mountains into the Highlands to explore where our forfathers hunted and gathered wood. Not allowed to cross the property line to go into the mountains simply to explore or for recreational purposes. But if you want to take an ATV up to KILL something, thats ok. There 2 moose seasons where your allowed to ATV in the Highlands in order to shoot an animal. I'm not a hunter so I'm not allowed to use these same trails simply to go to me buddys camp, or play in the drifts at the lakes, or take some one from the younger generation for a drive to see a major part of our past.
The only saving grace in this entire mess is tat there's a clause in the Act that says that trails in existance prior to 1990 or 91 will remain useable. Weather they choose to continue to allow us to use it remains a mystery. I've traveled the trails and have met conservstion officers and the've never given me a hard time. But thats not the point. It's enacted, it's on paper, it's a law that we are not allowed to use motor vechicles in the protected areas.
On the original land grant from Her Majesty, the Queen of England, my great-grandfather was allowed to use the lands surrounding his grant in order to make a decent living and to house and clothe his family. Maybe this is something I need to bring up with the Queen, anyone got her number?
anyway, thats my rant for the 06-07 sledding season. If anyone wants me, I'll be skidooing around my yard.
an words of wisdom from any of the club presidents or the SANS president????
There's a lot of us on this Forum from Noth of the National Park. Places like Neils Harbour, Dingwall, Cape North, Sugarloaf, Bay St.Lawerence and Pleasant Bay. As we all know Snowmobiling in the Cape Breton Highlands National Park is strictly prohibited. Why?? I dunno. There are a few National Parks across Canada (Gross Morne and Jasper for sure) that do allow it and benefit greatly from it as a means to get people to visit those Parks in the Winter time. Providing jobs, revenue and a different look at the park from a winter perspective. All postive things. .
Now.. CBHNP refuses to allow winter to help them create a multi-season recreation area. Sure there's the odd cross country skier that uses the park. (on a side note, it has been proven that animals run farther away from a slow moving human that takes sevearl minutes to pass by than from a snomobile that only interupts for a few moments) but other than that the park goes largely unused for the winter. 950 square kilometers of untouched wilderness.
OK...getting back on track. We know we'll never be allowed to snowmobile in the CBHNP as long as the current manager in Ingonish is in chage. Nothing against Mr.Reynolds, but he's not the best that the Park has ever had. (anyone see the shitty patch job on the Lone Sheiling? The area around the Lone Sheiling was the first parcel of land donated to the National Park system and the plaque there indictaes that in order to keep the land, the park must build and MAINTAIN a replica of the Lone Sheiling on the Isle of Skye in Scotland, If I were a MacIntosh I'd be building a house right in the middle of the park, unless they began to co-operate)... but what about the newly created Pollettes Cove /Aspy Fault Wilderness Protected area?
Since I've had a snowmobile, 1987, I've been skidooing on the Crown land north my home. Just like everyone else whos had a snowmobile in PB, I've been traveling to the Big Lake, Pollettes Cove gulch, the camp and all over this area. Just like the people on the eastern side of the island, traveling to McEvoys Barren, Maceacherns lake and so on. Then in the late 90's along come a group of enviromentalists, from probably south-end Halifax, and decide that everything North of the Park will now be a Wilderness Protected Area. There was some consultation with locals, but they did not listen to any of our concerns and eventually it lead to vandalism and some violence. Ending of course in the new Pollettes Cove-Aspy Fault Wilderness Protected Area.
So now all recreational motorvechicals are prohibited. No more trips to the camp or to the lakes. So no traveling up the mountains into the Highlands to explore where our forfathers hunted and gathered wood. Not allowed to cross the property line to go into the mountains simply to explore or for recreational purposes. But if you want to take an ATV up to KILL something, thats ok. There 2 moose seasons where your allowed to ATV in the Highlands in order to shoot an animal. I'm not a hunter so I'm not allowed to use these same trails simply to go to me buddys camp, or play in the drifts at the lakes, or take some one from the younger generation for a drive to see a major part of our past.
The only saving grace in this entire mess is tat there's a clause in the Act that says that trails in existance prior to 1990 or 91 will remain useable. Weather they choose to continue to allow us to use it remains a mystery. I've traveled the trails and have met conservstion officers and the've never given me a hard time. But thats not the point. It's enacted, it's on paper, it's a law that we are not allowed to use motor vechicles in the protected areas.
On the original land grant from Her Majesty, the Queen of England, my great-grandfather was allowed to use the lands surrounding his grant in order to make a decent living and to house and clothe his family. Maybe this is something I need to bring up with the Queen, anyone got her number?
anyway, thats my rant for the 06-07 sledding season. If anyone wants me, I'll be skidooing around my yard.
an words of wisdom from any of the club presidents or the SANS president????
http://www.gov.ns.ca/legislature/legc/statutes/wildarea.htm
for all the legal beagles out there here's the Act.
just to note
no bicycles, no camping, no fires, (what if your lost)
in the opinion of the Minister, the continued use or operation of snowmobiles within the wilderness area will have a minimal environmental impact on the wilderness area.
(4) Within a wilderness area not included in a Schedule to this Act, the Minister may designate a trail or route upon which the use and operation of vehicles is permitted if
(a) the Minister has entered into a management agreement with a group or organization setting out the terms and conditions for the use of the trail;
(b) the trail or route existed before the area was designated as a wilderness area;
© the trail is an essential link with a more extensive trail network;
(d) the Minister intends the relocation of the trail or route to another location outside the wilderness area, or near the wilderness area boundary where adverse environmental effects will be minimal; and
(e) in the opinion of the Minister, the continued use or operation of vehicles within the wilderness area will have a minimal environmental impact on the wilderness area.
it's also a cool half Mill fine to an invidual breaking these laws
Offence
30 (1) Every person who contravenes this Act or the regulations is guilty of an offence and is liable, on summary conviction
(a) in the case of a corporation, to a fine not exceeding one million dollars; or
(b) in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding five hundred thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.
(2) Where a person is convicted of an offence pursuant to this Act or the regulations a second or subsequent time, the person is, notwithstanding subsection (1), liable to a fine not exceeding double the amount set out in that subsection.
(3) Where an offence pursuant to this Act or the regulations is committed or continued on more than one day, the person who committed the offence is liable to be convicted for a separate offence for each day on which the offence is committed or continued.
(4) Where a person is convicted of an offence pursuant to this Act or the regulations and the court is satisfied that monetary benefits accrued to the person as a result of the commission of the offence
(a) the court may order the person to pay an additional fine in an amount equal to the court's estimation of the amount of the monetary benefits; and
(b) the additional fine is not limited by the maximum amount of any fine that may otherwise be imposed pursuant to this Act or the regulations. 1998, c. 27, s. 30.
And here's our only loop hole
(5) The Minister may issue a licence permitting the holder of the licence to use a vehicle or bicycle on a trail or route within a wilderness area to enable access for wilderness recreation, sport fishing or traditional patterns of hunting or trapping if
(a) the wilderness area is included in a Schedule to this Act and the trail or route existed before February 9, 1993; or
(b) in any other wilderness area, the trail or route existed before the area was designated as a wilderness area,
and, in the opinion of the Minister
© the continued use will have a minimal environmental impact on the wilderness area; and
(d) no reasonable alternative exists to enable the access.
(6) The Minister may require a trail or route in a wilderness area to be realigned or re-routed as necessary to minimize the environmental impact on the wilderness area.
Looks like I gotta keep a copy of this in my trunk
and here's the user-friendly version
http://www.gov.ns.ca/enla/protectedareas/d...ess_Act_Sum.pdf
notice that the pollettes cove/ aspy fault area took an extra year.
it also mentions about the trails being in existance before 1993
for all the legal beagles out there here's the Act.
just to note
no bicycles, no camping, no fires, (what if your lost)
in the opinion of the Minister, the continued use or operation of snowmobiles within the wilderness area will have a minimal environmental impact on the wilderness area.
(4) Within a wilderness area not included in a Schedule to this Act, the Minister may designate a trail or route upon which the use and operation of vehicles is permitted if
(a) the Minister has entered into a management agreement with a group or organization setting out the terms and conditions for the use of the trail;
(b) the trail or route existed before the area was designated as a wilderness area;
© the trail is an essential link with a more extensive trail network;
(d) the Minister intends the relocation of the trail or route to another location outside the wilderness area, or near the wilderness area boundary where adverse environmental effects will be minimal; and
(e) in the opinion of the Minister, the continued use or operation of vehicles within the wilderness area will have a minimal environmental impact on the wilderness area.
it's also a cool half Mill fine to an invidual breaking these laws
Offence
30 (1) Every person who contravenes this Act or the regulations is guilty of an offence and is liable, on summary conviction
(a) in the case of a corporation, to a fine not exceeding one million dollars; or
(b) in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding five hundred thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.
(2) Where a person is convicted of an offence pursuant to this Act or the regulations a second or subsequent time, the person is, notwithstanding subsection (1), liable to a fine not exceeding double the amount set out in that subsection.
(3) Where an offence pursuant to this Act or the regulations is committed or continued on more than one day, the person who committed the offence is liable to be convicted for a separate offence for each day on which the offence is committed or continued.
(4) Where a person is convicted of an offence pursuant to this Act or the regulations and the court is satisfied that monetary benefits accrued to the person as a result of the commission of the offence
(a) the court may order the person to pay an additional fine in an amount equal to the court's estimation of the amount of the monetary benefits; and
(b) the additional fine is not limited by the maximum amount of any fine that may otherwise be imposed pursuant to this Act or the regulations. 1998, c. 27, s. 30.
And here's our only loop hole
(5) The Minister may issue a licence permitting the holder of the licence to use a vehicle or bicycle on a trail or route within a wilderness area to enable access for wilderness recreation, sport fishing or traditional patterns of hunting or trapping if
(a) the wilderness area is included in a Schedule to this Act and the trail or route existed before February 9, 1993; or
(b) in any other wilderness area, the trail or route existed before the area was designated as a wilderness area,
and, in the opinion of the Minister
© the continued use will have a minimal environmental impact on the wilderness area; and
(d) no reasonable alternative exists to enable the access.
(6) The Minister may require a trail or route in a wilderness area to be realigned or re-routed as necessary to minimize the environmental impact on the wilderness area.
Looks like I gotta keep a copy of this in my trunk
and here's the user-friendly version
http://www.gov.ns.ca/enla/protectedareas/d...ess_Act_Sum.pdf
notice that the pollettes cove/ aspy fault area took an extra year.
it also mentions about the trails being in existance before 1993
QUOTE(NASTY-REV @ Dec 17 2006, 12:05 PM)
anyway, thats my rant for the 06-07 sledding season. If anyone wants me, I'll be skidooing around my yard.
an words of wisdom from any of the club presidents or the SANS president????
an words of wisdom from any of the club presidents or the SANS president????
so not one of you guys is going to say anything? There's threads about emailing MLA's about an old train track closing to off road vechicals and wanting everyone to write to stand up for rights. And everyone is asked to send a letter.
I ask for words of wisdom about the government comming into a dozen communities and saying "the trails you've driven on don't exisit and you can't use them anymore" and can't even get a comment.
Guess some of us shouldn't bother buying trail passes for trails that dont exisit anymore.
That "old railbed "you speak of runs through several large communities, towns even, and will affect a a shitload of sledders and ATVers how many up your way maybe 30-40
Nasty the trails I've driven on for years don't exist anymore either.Near Truro the town is enforcing a bylaw that say no motorized vehicles around a watershed area near my house I need it to access a huge trail system.But same as you it only affects a few people.Nobodys writing their MLAs for me.So I'm riding around my house too.
Why don't you try to get on the Ministerial committee on Off-Highway vehicles dude,isn't there 3 spots left?The fact is unless those cats think your issue is important nothing will change.Oh and if you do tell them to let me ride behind my house too.
Nasty the trails I've driven on for years don't exist anymore either.Near Truro the town is enforcing a bylaw that say no motorized vehicles around a watershed area near my house I need it to access a huge trail system.But same as you it only affects a few people.Nobodys writing their MLAs for me.So I'm riding around my house too.
Why don't you try to get on the Ministerial committee on Off-Highway vehicles dude,isn't there 3 spots left?The fact is unless those cats think your issue is important nothing will change.Oh and if you do tell them to let me ride behind my house too.
These are the 3 vacant positions on the committee.
Vacant Municipal
Vacant Municipal
Vacant Off-highway Vehicle Industry
Guys, the chair of the committee is from Margaree, former pres of SANS and is a member of this site. I'd take my concerns to him and Jamie Wolverton to start. Make sure they are aware of the situation. Its a start.
Vacant Municipal
Vacant Municipal
Vacant Off-highway Vehicle Industry
Guys, the chair of the committee is from Margaree, former pres of SANS and is a member of this site. I'd take my concerns to him and Jamie Wolverton to start. Make sure they are aware of the situation. Its a start.
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