hey everyone, where do you think you can ride on the first weekend, or where will be the best bet to? (providing it snows some). looking to take a small trip (around 100 miles) somewhere so i can test out the sled, havent rode it on snow yet, thanks! :beerchug:

if snow cover is an issue, check out Jay Peak area or Norton/Canaan area :div20: those areas have high elevation and have snow when nobody else dose. also if you want to trailer to Deer Mountain, NH. :div20:

Not sure where the riding will be, but since I bought a sled this year to learn on and a truck to get it places, we WILL be going where the snow is, reguardless where that may be.

I got friends riding at smuggs right now! They have been riding all week!

Are they riding the notch road? How much snow is there? I know this has been discussed b4....but is it ok to ride that road even though the trials are not open? Is so...is this true also for the Lincoln Gap road that is closed during the winter?

No its not legal until the trails open...

where is this?

rt. 108 in jeffersonville vt. the part thru the notch is closed to cars when the snow sticks to the road.
.

it is ok to ride on closed roads as long as your sled is registered i beleive. It is not considered a trail. There are no signs that say no snowmobiling so why would it be illegal. My friends have been riding up there all week and havent had any problems. There is about a foot of snow.




This is like saying it would be illegal to ride on a lake if it froze before trails open. I really dont think its illegal because it isnt a marked trail.

I just looked at the rules and it is somewhat confusing but it might be illegal to ride. I ride up to lincoln gap all the time before trails open. If ig et fined for riding up there than thats bullshit. Kids can go up there and smoke dope while snoboarding but if i ride up there i could get fined.....BS

Further north you can go the better.

Hey one ton.....where did you look up these rules. I am interested in finding out the legalities around this. Have you been up to Lincoln yet....is there snow up there? I usually shoot for riding the trail from the parking lot up there on opening day if there is adequate snow.

I know in the higher elevations Lewis Pond, Norton and Holland VT there are 8-15 inches depending where you are. I would say trail 2000 has 12plus inches. If it keeps coming by the 15th we should be OK for a shake down cruise. South of VT 105 Maidstone lake area has very little.

Thanks for the good news Derek!

I looked them up at www.vtvast.org they have some rules posted and then they have a link to the dmv website which has all the rules. I havent ridden up on the gap yet but if it snows some at the tail end of the week than i might be up there saturday. We are hoping to ride in the Norton/Morga narea opening weekend. Pray for snow!

VTrider are you a member of the Bristol Club?

Like i said, its illegal... of course i guess its not... until you get caught.

(Im a poet and i didnt even know it)

Yes...i have been a member of Mt. Abe snowsports for many years now. I need to get with Steve so i can get my TMA's (3 of them) before the free sled drawing deadline. I was hoping to get out a do some trail work with the club but they seemed to get an early jump on it this year. I helped build the bridge on the trail behind the big farm on Lower Hardscrabble rd and did some trail signage a few years back and really enjoyed it...of course I had a 4wheeler then which made it nice.

Looks like we may get some snow today....plus its gonna get cold tonight :fluffy: :banana:

yeah saturday ill be up at lincoln gap! Cant wait!

over a foot in Holland, thats were Ill be!

shhhhhhhhhhhh don't let the cat outa the bag

This is off the VAST website...
They ask that you not ride till after the 15th but, legal riding is when there is six inches of snow cover and the signs are up, or that is how I read it.
When can I ride on VAST Trails? When are trails open and closed?

Trails are open when there is adequate snow cover (at least six inches) and/or the trails have been signed and groomed by the local club. We do ask that you refrain from riding on VAST trails until after the Vermont Hunting Season has ended, generally around the 15th of Dec. Many Vermont landowners are hunters or allow hunting on their land, and as a gesture of goodwill, we ask that trail riding does not occur until the season is over. Most trails are closed on or around April 1st or 15th depending on snow coverage. Clubs will not be paid for any grooming done after April 1st, so if any grooming is being done, it is coming out of their own club funds.

Is State Forest Land open before Dec. 15th?

No, all State Forest Land is closed until after the 15th.
http://www.vtvast.org/About_Us/VAST_FAQ.php

State law reads that the closed snowmobile season is from April 15 thru Dec. 15. That means you can not ride until Dec. 16. The Vast site reffered to in the previous post is for when the season is open those conditions apply.

It says you cant ride on trails. Places that are unmarked trails like class 4 roads and such should be ok right?

I think the state law applys to state land as reffered to by the vast site. If I am wrong please post the rsa that states you cannot ride berore the 15 dec.
I think the dec 15 deal is a myth as it is in NH
If you are right would not VAST say so on the website? This is from the FAQ Page and the question was...

"When can I ride on VAST Trails? When are trails open and closed?"

and the answer was...
Trails are open when there is adequate snow cover (at least six inches) and/or the trails have been signed and groomed by the local club. We do ask that you refrain from riding on VAST trails until after the Vermont Hunting Season has ended, generally around the 15th of Dec. Many Vermont landowners are hunters or allow hunting on their land, and as a gesture of goodwill, we ask that trail riding does not occur until the season is over. Most trails are closed on or around April 1st or 15th depending on snow coverage. Clubs will not be paid for any grooming done after April 1st, so if any grooming is being done, it is coming out of their own club funds.

Is State Forest Land open before Dec. 15th?

No, all State Forest Land is closed until after the 15th.

According to the Vermont Snowmobile Operators Manual 2006 / 2007 published by the Agency of Transportation, Vermont Department of Motor Vehicles,

Chapter 29, Definitions, line #12 states "Closed season shall be defined as the time from April 16 to December 15.

This being taken to the letter of the law means that they have a lot of areas that may not be designated trails, but are legal to operate a snowmobile on (like the Smugglers Road etc.) during the open season.

CLOSED means CLOSED.

wait till the 16th like everyone else... is riding 1 week earlier worth lossing the trail?????

i see around richford and jap peak area there is 15-20 inches according to the snow fall map on the site here. any places to ride over there??

No closed means the season is over no funds for grooming. I could be wrong but i want to see it offically, not what any thinks the law is.
http://www.dmv.state.vt.us/documents/Manua...eManual2006.pdf
on page 5 "when and where may I not opperate my snowmachine"
It says nothing about riding during the closed season.
Like I said if you can not ride before dec 16 would it not say so at the vast website it, does say you can't ride on state land before dec 16 why wouldn't say no riding anywhere.

As I stated earlier the Vt. State Law has a closed season and it includes trails on private land. You can check the link below.


http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullse...p;Section=03201

I did read that it does not state that riding during closed season is legal or not legal, also it does not say anything about private land or otherwise.
I am not trying to start trouble. If it is ageast the law to ride before dec 16 it is in a rsa somewhere.
(12) "Closed season" shall be defined as the time from April 16 to December 15. (Added 1983, No. 212 (Adj. Sess.), § 2; amended 1987, No. 76, § 18; 1993, No. 234 (Adj. Sess.), § 1, eff. Nov. 1, 1994; 1995, No. 64 (Adj. Sess.), §§ 1, 2, eff. Jan. 30, 1996; 1997, No. 3, § 1, eff. March 8, 1997; 1999, No. 20, §§ 2, 3; 2001, No. 126 (Adj. Sess.), § 1, eff. June 12, 2002; 2003, No. 116 (Adj. Sess.), §§ 1, 2; 2005, No. 175 (Adj. Sess.), § 45.)

Ok it looks like it may be a $500 fine for riding before the season starts
(e) A person who violates any of the following sections of this title shall be subject to a fine of up to $500.00 for each violation:

§ 3206(b)(22) operation of a snowmobile in closed or open

and (23) season
http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullse...p;Section=03207

I am not sure i fully understand it but it sure looks like it is illegal

Chapter 29 Title 23 State Statue 3206 has the following;

(22) During the closed season on the statewide snowmobile trails system or any public land, except for the following purposes:

(A) grooming operations;

(B) trail maintenance; or

© search and rescue operations conducted by law enforcement officers defined in subdivision 3302(2) of this title or emergency medical personnel defined in 24 V.S.A. § 2651(6) or emergency use by fire service personnel defined in 20 V.S.A. § 3151 or private individuals who are assisting such officers or personnel.

OK here it is not legal to ride in vermont before dec 16
§ 3206. Operation on and across public highways, sidewalks; age restrictions; private lands; prohibited areas and prohibited methods of operation; reckless operation; SWI; financial responsibility; trail access limited; head and face protection

(b) A snowmobile shall not be operated:
22) During the closed season on the statewide snowmobile trails system or any public land, except for the following purposes:

(A) grooming operations;

(B) trail maintenance; or

© search and rescue operations conducted by law enforcement officers defined in subdivision 3302(2) of this title or emergency medical personnel defined in 24 V.S.A. § 2651(6) or emergency use by fire service personnel defined in 20 V.S.A. § 3151 or private individuals who are assisting such officers or personnel.

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullch...amp;Chapter=029
It does not answer the question about riding smugglers notch unless that is part of the statewide snowmobile trail system SSTS




Sorry you posted while I was looking it up. Boy there are a lot of rules .

you dont need to read all the details! thats why i posted what i posted before!!!


I'll repost:

CLOSED means CLOSED.

wait till the 16th like everyone else... is riding 1 week earlier worth lossing the trail?????


It's all very simple!!! wait until the 16th and you have nothing to worry about. why go early and risk pissin a landowner off and have them close the trail??? :frech32: :frech32:

anybody?

I wanted proof from a Vermonter that knew not some outastaters useless opinion :tease: The same thing goes on in the NH forum, well guess what there is no law in NH about riding early. If the landower allows riding and there is lots of snow why whould he care. Trail are already groomed in my town, not enuff snow for me but it is snowing now.

It's this outastater that knows to stay off a V.A.S.T trail until they open!
funny how you try to demean me by calling me an outstater, but when talkin about a V.A.S.T trail, you too are an out of stater! only difference between me and you, is i respect the rules and the landowners property. you on the otherhand could careless if you ride before the trails open and jeapardize our trails. selfish people like you who try to get a jump on the season (for whatever reason) is what gives snowmobiliers a bad rap! I bet your tracks are the ones that thru the sign that reads "please stay on trail" just so you can hit some fresh powder.
and as far as trails being groomed early...in Vermont on the V.A.S.T trail system, clubs are permitted to start grooming and establishing a base. NOT SNOWMOBILES. I know these facts are probably useless to you coming from an out of stater, but they are facts.

I wanted to know what the law really was, I did not say ever I was rideing early. I never said I was a Vermonter I said I wanted Info that was from a vermonter and was true but, I lived in Vermont 13 years in NEK. I am also not the one who was crying cuz I had to share VT trails with Vermonters CCskiing, That would be you! YOU also inplyed that you would give the landowner some crap letter telling him your right to ride on trails free of CCSkiers if they give you some dirty look that would jeapardize the trail system more .
If you had pointed to the website that proved it was not legal I would have excepted it as fact. Instead you said CLOSED MEANS CLOSED you where right but offered no proof. I did state that is was not legal after finding and posting the info. Happy trails I will be riding before you. :banana:

Well I put 8 miles on my 4 sleds. So does that make 32 miles????

No I didn't use the VAST trails all ridding done on my own land. Just ripped up the field thats all. The beefers won't mind next year......

As of today there was about 5" on Mt John and that isn't enough snow for trail riding. Fields are just ok but trails are full of rocks and stumps so theres no way I'll be out there when they do open. Unless of course Mother Nature is nice to us......

^^ I brought this up because on the NH forum everyone was saying riding before dec15 was not legal.
The law says that the trails are legal with 6 inches of snow and the signs are up. I wanted to know what the law in VT was, and although I took the Opportunity to try to wind you up along the way, I really just wanted to know for a fact it was not legal. :beer:

lets debate this over that beer!!! :celebrating:

:div20: :div20: :div20:



yes, they are riding in nh, but nh's regulations are different than vermonts. in nh, you can ride on STATE land before trails officially open... and that is where they are riding right now, on a limited selection of short trails. in vermont, everything is off limit's, except your own land, before the legal date arrives.

After a lot of research about this last year I read and was advised that it is legal to ride on a state highway after it has been closed for the season.


(b) A snowmobile shall not be operated:

(2) On a public highway, unless it is not being maintained and plowed for use by motor vehicles during the snow season.

from here: http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullse...p;Section=03206

This is the best information I could find last year when I wanted to ride in the passes before trails were open. As you can see, it is written in law. State highway regulations are different from vast trail rules.