Seems the farmers are getting more aggressive in targeting the OFSC and snowmobilers in their government protest. As many have said they are only alienating the snowmobilers yet they will not listen. Our protest would not be any sillier than their protest closing our trails. If they got their way they would close down every trail in Ontario if they could.

More BS spewing from the mouth of the guy with the Black Escalade

Susan Hundertmark
Wednesday October 18, 2006

Huron Federation of Agriculture members are waiting to hear today (Oct. 1 if their provincial body agrees with a local resolution to continue closing snowmobile trails this winter as an ongoing protest of the farm income crisis.

“This is just the beginning of another winter of discontent for farmers,” says Nick Whyte, president of the Huron Federation of Agriculture.
“Grain and oilseed farmers are in a tighter and more difficult situation financially than ever and we don’t know what else to do,” he says.
The HFA passed a resolution at its September board meeting asking the OFA to lobby the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs to encourage the expansion of last winter’s trail closures as a show of support for the farm-income crisis until risk management programs are developed.
If the snowmobilers’ group does not support the trail closure, the resolution asks OFA members to revoke access to their land.
The HFA letter includes a copy of a similar resolution from the Glengarry Federation of Agriculture.

“We very much don’t want to protest, but as the need grows greater and greater for risk management protection, we have to bring as much attention as possible to the issue,” says Whyte, adding he hopes snowmobilers will support farmers and voluntarily stay off the trails.
Whyte says other provinces and countries, such as the U.S. and European countries, have programs very similar to the proposed risk management protection.

Bev Hill, a member of the Grassroots movement, says Grassroots is also supporting the closure of snowmobile trails across Ontario to encourage those outside of agriculture to get involved in the farm protest.
“Both Grassroots and mainstream farm organizations are very busy farming right now and we haven’t spent much time discussing strategy. So right now, our focus is attempting to draw support from other sectors,” he says.

And, since the snowmobile industry contributes $1 billion a year towards Ontario’s economy, Hill says the gas stations, dealers, manufacturers, restaurants, bed-and-breakfast owners and others affected could really help farmers.

“If we get more people pulling on the rope, it could go beyond the Ministry of Agriculture,” he says, adding that one-day protests both at Queens Park in Toronto and Parliament Hill in Ottawa have not been successful so far.

“One of the obvious weaknesses of one-day protests is they know we’re going home the next day. We feel there’s no other alternative than a protest that has lingering implications,” says Hill.
Hill acknowledges that the farmers’ request, if successful, shuts down snowmobiling for the season and is a difficult issue for snowmobilers to support.

“They want to help but they’re in an uncomfortable position. They acknowledge their industry is dependent on access to farmland but their mandate is to establish a trail system for their members,” he says.
Hill says he’s hoping that because of the widespread effects of a trail closure, the protest would be effective and short-lived.

Hill says Ontario farmers are in the fourth consecutive year of grain and oilseed prices that are below the cost of production, adding that soybean and wheat prices are lower than last year’s.

Jim

I was speaking to some people within the Pineridge Snowmobile CLub (Huron Cty) and they assure me that there will be trails this winter. Yes, there will be some land owner issues, but they have a contingency plan to re-route where necessary.

Many of their members are farmers and many of them are very active snowmobilers who do not want the trails to be closed. Bev Hill is losing support from the locals every day.

I would hope that attitude continues and I am sure snowmobilers will work with THOSE farmers in any way we can, Seems it is Hill's so called Grassroots group that is way off base. The risk management I agree must be addressed but Hill is way off base and must be running for politics or something.

Jim

What a joke. Charge us through the ass for a permit, then work with the farmers to close the trails?

Just to be clear, Bev Hill is not a poor farmer. This guy is a multi millionaire who owns thousands of acres of land in Huron County. His property alone is worth over $5M.

Definately someone destined for politics. More from this character, thinks he is the Prime Minister of Farming.

From the Goderich paper....



Farm snowmobile trails off-limits for now


By Jim Cooper, Kippen
Bev Hill, Varna
Dwight Foster, North Gower
Dan Schill, Palmerston
Joe Hickson, Lindsay
Wednesday October 18, 2006

To the Editor:
As the snowmobile season quickly approaches, we would like to explain the position that has been taken by some Ontario farmers with respect to property access for snowmobile trails.
Ontario grain and oilseed farmers continue to experience depressed grain prices resulting from the competitive inequities that have been created by the U.S. Farm Bill.
Subsidized American grain moves freely into Canada. Our efforts to get both levels of government to implement the proposed Risk Management Program (RMP) that would level the playing field, have been fruitless.
By virtue of refusing to provide this necessary support, both the provincial and federal governments have essentially told us that the public is not prepared to support the primary agricultural industry to the extent that we have shown is necessary.
While we don't agree with this assessment, some farmers, and we encourage many others as well, have decided that we will not provide the public with free access to our farms for recreational purposes until this issue has been resolved. Snowmobile clubs have been very supportive of our position, and have acknowledged that their entire industry is largely based on access to Ontario farmlands, provided at no cost, for trail purposes. This is an industry that reportedly contributes $1 billion per year to the Ontario economy.
Our efforts over the past year to obtain the necessary government investment support have not been successful.

We clearly need assistance in our lobbying efforts, and are hopeful that the entire snowmobile industry, clubs, restaurants, bed and breakfasts, gas stations, dealers and manufacturers will assist us in our lobbying efforts.
We feel that if enough farmers refuse trail access that a quick solution to this problem can be achieved with minimal disruption to this snowmobile season.

Jim Cooper
Kippen
Bev Hill
Varna
Dwight Foster
North Gower
Dan Schill
Palmerston
Joe Hickson
Lindsay





Jim

This supports the thread I started a couple weeks ago. Thanks for keeping us up to date Jim.

Yup, hey farmers, you will never get my support going this way, I'd be willing to do what I can to help and support you, but not if you're answer is closing trails, how the fuck do you think we'd respond to that????,

If you want our support, go about it the right way.

And Bev Hill, or whatever your name is, GFYS.

:bigfinger: Spiderman, thats for U. He's the owner of his property and can do whatever the *%^& he wants to do with it. Get your head out of your ass. You *&%&^$% whiners just kill me. Take your *&%^(^**( $180 and go the %&@# away. Save the rest of us from once again looking like non caring fools.

If thats what its going to take the farmers to do to get the attention of the citizens then it is fine with me. I think that the farmers don't get enough support and they need the support of us sledders. A farmer myself have considered closing my section of the trail just because the ATV riders have no respect. But those 2 free trail passes each year make it so hard to do.

Farmers in your area are getting free trail passes?

I thought they stopped the free passes when the gov't took over the OFSC.

I didnt know this was against the rules. it was just courtesy

Most clubs still give permits to land owners ( if requested by land owner ) the club pays the OFSC's share of the permit cost from their membership fee's and club fundraising, and if they have little or no membership base or a good club fundraising program it'll have to come out of their permit share operating capital.

they are NOT allowed to give free passes before and after bill 101

Sledhead88

No one is questioning the RIGHTS farmers have to cut off access

its their land,no one forced them to allow the trails through their land,the clubs asks each year and get written permission to use ceratin portions of their land

It is their tactics to use us as ponds as it won't do a thing for them in getting the government to give them subsidies for their product

That may be the rule but we both know if it wasn't for the freebies given out to some land owners whom request it, most districts south of Near North would have little or no trail system at all. Northern clubs run on what 5 to 10 % private land ??? where as southern clubs run on 70+ % private land.

Just trying to show my support for both the OFSC and the OFA. I didn't know it was a rule. Snowmobiles always manage to leave the trails and even have the courtesy to drive right accross the front lawn. In the summer when the gate is locked the atvers take wire snips and open up the fence to trespass. May have to just bill the ofsc for the price of a new gate to buy a pass. Or end the use of our farm as well.

I didn't realize that the ofsc was responsible for the actions of atv riders now.

We all can choose to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. Hopefully you will choose to do the right thing.

Possible ways to be part of the solution: report all sledders, including yourself, for every infraction you witness of going off trail, speeding, ignoring noise laws, or ignoring any other law while sledding on private land; and/or buying some farmland yourself, paying taxes on it, make a living from it, and allow what ever you wish to take place on it. Money... meet mouth :banana:

The only way an atv'er would know there is a "trail" there, would be if the fucktard rode the trail on a sled, or one of his inbread hick buddies rode it.

There has been some heavy editing on this thread.

The new server went down Friday night and Rob said it took about 24 hours worth of posts with it.

Ah, that makes sense

Unfortunetaly we clubs are DEEMED responsible and have lost trails due to trespassing ATV riders

sorry guys I am getting in over my head and once again... POLITICS is getting the worst of me. there is no threat of our portion of the ofsc being closed due to the atv'ers, just because it is so nice to have direct access to the trail! :banana: Sorry I did not realize passes were not supposed to be purchased by the club for its landowners either. I will have to bring that up the next time we speak. Its just not worth the grief for the couple of bucks we save.

Once again, sorry for the commotion I may have caused, and lets just hope for a good snowfall.

In my opinion the $180 is paid back the first weekend. The rest of the season is free!! I don't understand how some of the people can complain about $180 !!! The cost to insure and fuel are a different subject.I will just have to load up and head north! Quebec is also a viable option for a week or so. I think we all need to remember that nothing can be taken for granted, even if this isn't the right way to draw attention to the problem it may be the only way they have thought of.In a month or two when the club runs the groomer down the ditch in front of the farm they may realize that it wasn't effective, until then let them do their thing and let's see what happens when the snow fly's!! Some of you guys need to take a momment and collect your thoughts before opening your mouth! :cn: :arctic_cat_rules:

Hey Rosco, if you are that fed up I will see you at the next monthly meeting for South Grey Bruce snowmobile assc. Where you can fill us all in on your worldly vision and all our errors!The meeting is the first Tuesday of every month at the Arthur fire hall.I think it is still best to work with the farmers on this subject.

Didn't realize that I was that fed up.

I think you have taken my post out of context. I just don't see a direct connection between the damage done by atv's and the liability the ofsc has to repair it.
I also think if the permit was a little less they would sell far more of them. I used to permit 2 sleds so a friend could ride, for a few years now only one.
But yes I would be quite fed up if they took my money for a permit and then assisted the farmers in closing the trails. If they can't supply a place to ride why should they take my money? There are better ways we can support the farmers as others have already stated.

As far as my worldly visions, I won't claim to have the answer, but I don't think closing trails is it although it certainly is their right to do so.

Sorry if I offended you burns. I definately commend all of the volunteers for their hard work and I thank the landowners for the use of their land in the past and I certainly hope the future.

I have alot of friends who have atv's and others who have sleds, but only a couple who have both.

Personally I feel any landowner who donates/grants access should be given a free ride, whats the cost in doing that?, as for my previous posts, I stick by my comments in that I would support their cause, but not in the fashion they are going about it, I think it's a cop out and a lame attempt at getting attention.

This would be what I was refering to !!!!!!!!!!!!
No one is helping them shut down the trail. It is their land to do what they please with. The OFSC is simply trying to do damage control.
Charging through the ass seems a little extreme, You might want to cry on a different sports shoulder, like curling. :beerchug:

"The HFA passed a resolution at its September board meeting asking the OFA to lobby the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs to encourage the expansion of last winter’s trail closures as a show of support for the farm-income crisis until risk management programs are developed. "

I went back and caught that one. But the cost of permits went up considerably since the '99 permit year when I paid $60. I bet that even a slight reduction in cost would see a larger profit in #'s sold.

This year I won't be buying so I guess I shouldn't care if the trails are closed for the rest of you, but I still do. As I said I used to permit 2 sleds, but I live from paycheck to paycheck and after buying a permit last year and not going out once I can't justify it this year.

I think curling is probably more your type of sport. :cn:

Curling is a wonderful drinking sport for those who can't afford to snowmobile.
Gas, insurance, and sled cost's have also trippled- what is your point?? :frech32:
If you can buy a snowmobile the trail pass cost is nothing.

hey,what the hell is wrong with curling,i love nothing better than a good game after a hard day of sleddin' :beerchug:

Hope that f-cat is ready to go!! Did you ever get that curling rock holder on it?? :banana:

No,but i'm trying to find a firecat holder for my curling rock.

:zzz:

Everything goes up by a substantial percent accept wages. I guess sooner or later somethings gotta be given up.

Gas is currently up about 40%, my insurance actually hasn't changed much at all , but it has always been pretty high. $1050 for the ZRT800 and the F7 seems a bit steep, and I certainly can't afford a new sled this year even though a new F10 was only $10 000 taxes incl. for me through the race program. Less than I paid for my ZRT actually.

I think we're all on the same page. We all want the trails open, we all would like to support the farmers through another method than trail closures, and we all want a better winter this year. Arguing amongst ourselves is going to get us nowhere. :banghead:

I think curling is boring btw. Maybe if they gave the better looking girls some figure skater outfits to wear it may catch my attention for a couple minutes. :beerchug:

After a hard day of sledding I just wanna go to bed. Getting old and worn out. :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

Oh and Sledhead, this is "forum", where people discuss things, and have differening opinions, I personally am disgusted by the tactics being used, I understand the cause, but disagree with the tactics, obviously you have a differing of opinion and take things a little personally, eh? So in accordance with your post, i'll return a little something for you.

:bigfinger:

Once again in plain english

Some landowners deem us responsible to what happens during the OFF season

Some clubs go out and erect fences at their own expense so they keep the land owner happy and still have access

Some clubs do not have the time to deal with stuff like that and shut the trail down permenantly

We bend over backwards for land owners many times so many of you can enjoy this sport but their is a limit of what we can do

the thing about the Farmers down South not letting access is a a totally diferent story and I do not agree with their tactics but in the long run it is THEIR land and they can do what ever they please to/on it

As for you paying $1050 for insurance and then complain about $180 trail permit

I ask WTF

then I will ask

How much is registration for the grass drags you run in

Drags are not too cheap. You have the chance to win your money back though and no 50km/hr speed limit (lol). I had to cut way back on those this year also.

Insurance is ridiculous but you have to have it. I don't have to ride the trails so that is a small amount I can put into something else while cash flow is tight.

If the landowners and clubs agree that atv damage is the responsibility of the ofsc then can the clubs fine the atv riders for not having an ofsc sticker on their atv's? Sounds resonable to me. With the amount of atv's being sold this could earn alot of $$$.

Truth be told I have probably only been on ofsc trails 15-20 times in my lifetime. Not a lot of my friends have sleds. I have bought several years and didn't use the trails. If I had a better job I would pay the $180 and probably not get on the trails again this year.

Once again HOW do you enforce that

The police have better things to do unfortunately,and yes they do some patroling in summer in certain areas but why should a police officer be in BFK on the chance of catching a trespasser

As do club members ,people have lives in summer aka relax fish shoot shit around the camp fire etc

also the clubs ARE the OFSC

Then again maybe we should send the million dollar OFSC execs out on trail patrol during the off season :div20:

as for fining every ATVer you once again run into some that might make things worse and deface signs and property

Sometimes its better to close a trail rather then deal with the BS unfortunately

Well it's time I put in a few words.

The Huron County farming crisis affects a section of District 9 and District 5 at this time. I happen to be a member of a panel formed to deal with this issue within District 5.

District 5 and District 9 are working very hard to keep the trails open, at this time it is business as usual. Yes there is going to be some trails closed by Mr. Hill and his group...all efforts are being put forward to work with them and or reroute the trails. If a reroute is not possible that section of trail will be closed, any trail closings will be posted on the D5, D9 and OFSC web sites as soon as we become aware of them and I'm sure they will hit these msg boards soon there after.

Since this is an open forum I'm not going to go into details, or he said she said type of stuff. What I can tell you is that this farming group is not supported by the OFA. Do not belive all the details you read in the papers of press releases by Mr. Hill. The press looks for sensationalism and that's what they publish.

The OFSC and it's member Clubs support our landowners ( farmers) during this crisis. Although we have been asked voluntairily to close our trails, this is not going to happen on any wide spread area. There is no way we can do this.

Relax folks, there people working on the issue and as we are able to give more details we will. Don't start a hatered for farmers or protest the landowners that we all need. The rumors make it sound worse than it really is.

The problem with the clubs or ofsc in giving landowners passes or any "gift" for that matter is, the fact that this could be considered payment for land use hence causing liability issues for the landowner. The insurance companies would love to find out a landowner was "paid" therby cancelling ofsc liabilty insurance when using that portion of the trail, and placing the burden of insurance on the private landowner. Hope this clears that issue up for you.

Thank you for the insight Dave.

The local clubs really need to get the word out that they have a contingency plan and that there will be snowmobiling in Huron/Perth County this season, but there will probably be some "detours". Too many guys think that the sky is falling and there will be no sledding this winter in our area at all.

Topic title changed to reflect true person responsible for this problem.

Jim

:beerchug:

< Bev Hill in yellow

I don't get it...

what do they think they will achieve?

so they will work with the ofsc and only close a few trails, and re-route others?

this strategy makes no sense if what they want is gov't support!!!!

maybe us snowmobiler's are just great negotiators?

these people come across as complete idiots. They will gain zero from this, except loose support from the people on the fence and those not completely convinced...

what a joke

The majority of the snowmobile tourism dollars are certainly not spent in Southern Ontario so therefore, this protest is pointless. If they really wanted to piss people off and get attention, they'd have to close the trails in Muskoka and north. Oh - and Quebec too.

The only people these farmers are pissing off are their neighbours.

Fuck 'em, I don't ride on Farmers trials anyway.

If the "Clubs " are unsure about things they need to be contacting the District offices that are there to help them. Too many try to live in thier own little world.

I'll be sending something out tommorrow for the D5 Clubs after tonights meeting with the Farming group.