I am hoping to win the 1500.00 in gas how bout you guys?

I bought mine yesterday from a club in Northern Ontario. I always have bought in Haliburton, but they have lots of members and money. The club gets $104 of the $180 if they sell the permit. So do your homework boys and buy from the clubs that can use the money and actually work hard on their trails.


the dawg

That's one of the best suggestions that I have hear of in a long time................ :div20:

only thing is last year i gave to burford and the year before that new dundee, however last year the burford club was open at most a couple days so in my opinion the southern clubs should have TONS of excess due to lack of snow conditions last year and VERY minimal number of days the trails were open and needed grooming or maintence... so im in bind weather to support local club or to support sundridge area clubs as thats where i rode most of last season due to shitty snow down south...

does anyone know where the money goes when you buy a trail pass at the snowmobile show this weekend?

No open trails--no pass!!!

Picking mine up on the week end. Need the free gas. :smilielol:

what color this year?

If you buy a trail permit at the show, you will be asked to select a club. The trail permit money will be turned over to the district which in turn will forward it to the specified club.

That is good to know that the money will go to area that I ride.......well hopefully it will!

The drawback to buying at the show is, the money does go to the club of your choice, but it gets put into the system and the club you select has to wait till they get reimburse from the OFSC. If you buy direct from your club or one it's selected vendors the club handles the money and sends the OFSC their cut. The club then gets to and keep their cut antd put it to use right away rather that waiting till Feb or March.

Kind of a pinky orange.

yea you thoguht last years was bad... it almsot looks like a silver sticker till you look at it a bit harder.

Colour brings back memories. I've seen that colour before after over indulging in Grand Marnier.

Funny I have yet to see an OFSC buy your permit commercial

I know Snowmobiler TV has been on for a couple of weeks

You would think they would get the word out in the media :cn:

Yes it would be nice to have the $1500 for gas

12 mpg at 90cent a liter is about

Nutter,,,,,,,Lots of posts missing......but i did see yours. I agree with you that the fuel savings and groomer wages are a miniscule amount of the overall budget. The southern clubs did have some savings due to lack of snow last season. FYI.....Elk Lake sold 13 trail passes last season. I was on the D trail east of Tomiko Lake last January between the 3rd and 4th week. The trail had yet to be groomed and was getting brushed that week. After talking with a volunteer in Field, I found out the club only had 3 grand for the season. Needless to say, the groomer went out a little less in that area last season compared to previously. I am concerned a missing link will happen in the near future. Also I hear displeasure about trail conditions from our american tourists.

FYI...I sled Monday to Thursday almost every week. The season is only 12 weeks (max). It bothers me to see groomers parked on Sunday nights after the trails have been beat up all weekend. (Especially with the fuel costs and wages being so miniscule).I wouldn't want to run any business with the use of volunteers. (bless their souls)

Make the ATV's pay
Raise trail fee passes (wouldn't bother me)
Spend money on your bases(benefits would be fewer break downs and trails would open earlier)
Loggers should leave a single trail for sleds to pass. I was 80% of the way to Shining Tree and run into Lava Rock. Was I supposed to go back to Timmins and run out of gas or carry on over the 10 miles of rock?

I do appreciate peoples efforts and many clubs do a great job but that doesn't mean things could be better.

I will buy my trail pass where I think it will help and I have encouraged my friends to purchase in Elk Lake this year as well. If you sled thru Field they could use your help and I would recommend Baysville because of the effort those guys put forward.


happy sledding

the dawg :linemup:

i didn't know that freezer burnt, was the club purchasing the pass, not just giving them out. just as other clubs give out gift cards to canadian tire.

It is quite a conundrum there Yardawg, I personally just didn't like your post basically saying "buy north cause the southern clubs have tons of left over cash" like I said yesterday all the other bills still have to be paid snow or not.

All districts are important, but traffic wise I'll bet just Dist 2 and 3 alone see more traffic in one week that the whole of far north sees in their whole season. Yes the far north does desperately need an injection of cash greater than they receive. I don't know the solution but to take it away from southern clubs will just make the problem worse in higher traffic areas.

The only way I see to alleviate this problem would be for the federal gov to subsidize the northern clubs through moneys collected from tourisim tax revenue. This would not only help the trail system, as a good trail system would also boost the economy of many a northern town.

FYI Yardawg it's most northern clubs that have to pay their groomer operators where as most southern clubs don't, but that's understandable due to a higher volunteer base in the south.

73 elanman

BTW that is against OFSC rules :cn:

Your club will be contacted unfortunetaly for what you wrote

BUT to me it makes sense as we are using your land

Now for dawgs comments

Sure you do not mind the increase in permit price

BUT that will kill permit sales even more

We have finally turned the table on faling permit sales the past couple of years,mainly due to keeping the prices stable the past couple of years

Wages and fuel cost might be not much in the grand schemme BUT groomer break downs are a real BIG $$$$$$ and are never scheduled

Logging companies don't care as they are out for their own interest which is getting logs out of the bush to make $$$$,and yes some do make the effort to help out with the trail if they are in the area but most times they don't have the time

and I believe the trail in question was described as so on both the OFSC site and STP site so you should have been a bit more prepared

I know I have mentionned a few times when the local mining companies have to use certain sections of trail thus either temporary close the trail or warn of the afformention trail condition on here and other sites

As for some of the trail up north and late brushing,that is where the OFSC bit to big,less population less volunteers and much more KMs of trails

Thank god we have some dedicated volunteers in those areas :div20: that do go out or there would be NO trail

Throwing $$$ will not solve that problem only good hearted people who love our sport and are appreciated by the sledding public will try to keep those sections open come winter

+ with more and more mills closing up north the volounteer base is or will be getting ever smaller

When you see a person brushing and doing trail work when you ride by give the thumbs up,this will show appreciation

OK Freezer.........Here we go!!!! LOL

Again....I agree, throwing more $$$ is not the solution. I am unfamilar with your club, so lets talk about Haliburton. They might have more members than any other club? Cash is not a problem! Yet a private enterprise (Haliburton Forest), can charge a daily fee and make a profit. Their trails are open 1st and close last in the area. HMMMMMMMMM....maybe they get a government grant? :frech32:

OFSC.....I know resort owners who curse them because trails are reported closed when they are ok!! The trails reports are rarely current; some of my friends say they wouldn't never go sledding, if they listened to those trail reports.
Pretty sad that the OFSC doesn't have an agreement loggers to leave a single path for sleds! How hard is that?
Pretty sad that an OFSC Top Trail is only being brushed in late January!!!
Pretty sad that 120,000 dollar piece of equipment is parked because the volunteer had Leaf tickets and no one else is available!
That was a Beautiful Million Dollar Bridge between Gravenhurst and Bracebridge that sledders paid for! Any of you sledders who want to go 50 miles out of your way.......enjoy the view! Anybody ever seen an ATV on it?


Nutter.....Don't get me wrong, I love the sport. I bought a new sled this year, but I almost packed it in due to poor trail conditions. If I'm thinking that way..........I know I'm not the only one. How many sledders have already given up because of this issue. Sorry man, but the season is only 12 weeks max.....get the groomers out there!!!!!

the dawg :linemup:

And to think some of you would pay more to have the system run by the bureaucracy of the Government and Unions

Well the season has not even started and the lamenting over lack of grooming has already begun. I would hate to see the whining if you all did not have 12 inches of suspension under your fat asses. The trails here in my opinion are great and we will never please all , however perhaps the best thing to do is buy where you ride and even though you may not live where you ride why not take a trip up and surrender your day of riding to a day of brushing. I know that aint gonna hapen so I guess those that do the work instead of riding shall have to continue listening to those that pay about 2% of the cost of a sled to ride and still think they should be riding on a cloud at all times. JMO

Bought my permits 5 weeks ago.

Not only does buying early save you some coin but it also provides our clubs early season cash flow for trail construction.

If you can swing it buy as early as possible. Your club will appreciate it.

Couple of info tid bits on club expenses.

Savings from a poor winter is not true. We still put in the trail, buy the material, pay the loans on equipment, pay insurance and all the other costs plus do all the legwork. The only thing that we don't use as much of is fuel. We still need to buy it and store it. It does not last forever. The groomer still needs full service to insure when it snows it is ready.

A poor season means we get less money. A few poor in a row and wer're in trouble. The matrix which is used to allocate dollars to clubs redirects money based on several factors, grooming included. If we can't run our gear full time due to a crappy winter or lack of volunteers we loose big. Try building the next season with 15% less money and all the same expences. The cash flow is dependant on permit sales. Lots of early buyers helps us out tremendously as most expenses occur prior to the snow fall.

Our operators are volunteers as are the mechanics, executive and members. Our groomer operators want nothing more than to deliver smooth trails all the time and I'll say they do an amazing job. Keep in mind our operators just spent a full shift working at their job, then ran home and ate supper and met up with the groomer to switch out, run 8 or more hours, run home, jump in bed for a few hours and do it again.

I often sit back and ask myself why in the hell would they do this given some of the BS I hear and read.

:frech32:

Well said Scott S

Remember buying early only helps if you buy direct from the club or one of it's vendors, otherwise the money has to go into the OFSC pool then be redirected back to the club, this usually ties up the money well into the end of the season. If you buy direct from the club or club vendor the club then holds their share and directs the remainder to the OFSC.

well said zozo, i cant believe people are already complaining about the trail conditions... whatever our awesome volunteers can do, is appreciated by me. IMO the trails were in great shape whenever and whereever i rode, passed tons of groomers. bought the trail passes at the show on friday and my money is already on its way to the french river...

I had no problems with the trails. Great point about the 12" suspension, some of us even go for the 10", better than leaf springs and bogies! :banana: gotta love 'em.
The volunteers all do their best and we should commend that. As for the weather keeping the trail conditions poor, we can't help that. :frech32:

Nutter if your club is not seeing the money till Feb or March you need to talk to someone at the head of your District. Either that or your information is incorrect .....the permit sales from the show are processed almost immediatly and moneys are sent out to the district within a month. That one of the whole idea's about sales at the show ..it gets the cash to the Clubs before the bulk of the sales come in on Dec 1.
By the way there was just over 1100 permits sold at the show, slightly up from last year.

:beerchug: In regards to Haliburton Forest being private and making money that"s what it"s all about. He has two groomers and a vast trail system to look after and does it quite well. It"s amazing the number of seasons passes they sell at over $300 and there doesn"t seem to be a shortage of sledders buying them. Also there is a limit of 100 per day allowed on the trails. :burp: :burp:

Receiving the outside permit sales revenue late has be the case with our club several seasons. It doesn't really matter if it's our dist or the OFSC we know they both do there best to getting the funds to us and other clubs as fast as possible, but some seasons it just takes longer. By us handling as many sales as possible ourselves we know what we have to work with rather than guessing on outside sales revenue to project our seasonal budget. It's just plan old easier

Receiving the outside permit sales revenue late has be the case with our club several seasons. It doesn't really matter if it's our dist or the OFSC we know they both do there best to getting the funds to us and other clubs as fast as possible, but some seasons it just takes longer. By us handling as many sales as possible ourselves we know what we have to work with rather than guessing on outside sales revenue to project our seasonal budget. It's just plan old easier :div20:

Freezer......I own a restaurant and had 87 bookings tonight. At 9 am my Chef called in sick!! I wish my season was only 12 weeks long max.!!! Come on over and I roll out the red carpet for you, 52 weeks a year!

Zoso......My dishwasher was also sick, you want to stay for 3 hours after your dinner and help? I guess we all know that ain't going to happen!!! lol :frech32:

Scott S. ......What club are you with? God bless the volunteers :div20: .......but you will never get me to agree with it!

Freezer......In regards to Haliburton Forest......You know the one that opens trails 1st in the area and closes last. No volunteers and makes a profit! Maybe you should go check it out, you never know, you may find out that you are not the sharpest tool in the clubhouse!

Bottom line.....Some clubs do a better job than others, it stems from the top. If the trail don't need groomed, don't do it. But don't leave that washboard for the week and groom on Friday. You wouldn't here a complaint if that was the case!

the dawg :linemup:

I am sorry, but am I hearing you correctly? Are you asking me to come to your for profit business and volunteer? I too could be making money as opposed to helping with the club, and i know FB could be as well, as he recently turned down OT to go brush trails. I really fail to see how your business woes are relevent to this discussion. You choose not to help and that is fine, I hope you can find a dishwasher so that you can get out on our great trails.

Haliburton is a VERY SMALL are and is managed as such

it cost $35 a pop when you go

Ontario is HUGE compared to haliburton

Haliburton is BLESSED with be in the highland of Central Ont where it gets early snow and great amounts of lake affect

By the way if you read any of my post last couple of years you would know I also ride mid week days of where tue/wed or wed thurs for the most part

If you think Haliburton is SO great go ride there and pay the $35 every time you ride

Now who the fuck said I was the sharpest tool in the clubhouse :tease:

Is it because I am opinionated on here and am blunt

That has fuckall to do with be smart and I will admit I am far from the smartest nor do I speak on behave of the OFSC

If you do not like what volunteers do GO FUCK YOURSELF :bigfinger: and have fun in Haliburton :div20:

Btw I do not speak for all violunteer but there are some that will be in agreement :div20:

and YES some clubs can do a better job BUT the vast majority do a great job :div20:

Add to it to the fact that Peter runs Haliburton Forest as a 12 month operation with other revenue streams including fishing, dogsledding, camping, mountain bikes, the Wolf Centre etc. Snowmobile trails are only one part of his operation. No need for annual re-routes as the trails have been there for years. Yes, he can make a profit with permit fees because he charges enough and has many different services paying his operational costs. His winter equipment and staff are also used throughout the year for his other operations. As noted - he does quite well.

Freezer ....... You ride across a frozen lake that in summer time the water is about as clear as your vision! :frech32: By the way....Its sounds to me like you have never sledded outside your shadow and came back?

FYI.....I appreciate the volunteers way more than you do........I want them paid for their efforts. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better!

Zoso,,,,,same thing....If you spend your time brushing, there should be payment with it. Pretty hard to get upset at a guy when he's a no show when he's not being paid?


[b]OK ......WHEN I'M IN NEW LISKEARD AT THE QUALITY INN ON A TUESDAY NIGHT AND THERE ARE 150 TRAILERS IN THE PARKING LOT, THOSE GUYS DID NOT BUY THEIR PERMIT WHERE THEY ARE RIDING!!!

IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE GUYS, I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU RECONSIDER WHERE YOU BUY YOUR PERMIT!!!

The Dawg

yes in a utopian world it would go out to paid guys,unfortunetaly there is not enuff $$$$ to go around

Some would be willing to up the price like you,while others perceive we pay too much

There is a good reason permit sales have dropped big time the past 6 yrs besides weather

BUT I do it so I could get out there and to improve our trail system here

I used to brush some trails before I joined the club

BTW volunteers are just that volunteers they do it because they WANT TO,not because they have to

I would suggest that "sledders" only made a small contribution to the overall cost of the bridge referenced by yarddawg. I am only clarifying a misconception with the posted comment. :div20:

Our club in Muskoka has had to rent a excavator to clear the d trail east hwy 11. It began work yesterday with a small group of volunteers. If you all recall this area was hit hard by the August Tornadoes, they managed to clear 1.5 KM of trail and have counted over 100 trees that have fallen over the trail. This work is not considered brushing its logging. This fall clubs are in for a ton of added expence for trail clearing because of the storms damage. Sno-Crest Riders are working this section of trail through this week and weekend. Hwy 11 to Doe Lk rd and follow till the trail crosses. They need experienced help. :div20:

you missed the biggest one.... logging and the eco log home business... snowmobiling helps to pay the bills during an otherwise dead season :celebrating:

It is a great thing to have being a sledder, but going around in circles aint my thing. I will buy a few permits a year and ride through there occasionally.

I feel my $35 bucks a few times a year, when I only use the trails for a few hours with my pass - gives me the right to drive through there from time to time without paying (getting from kennisis lake to whitney as an example.)

flame away...

Hey sled dude, are you just sneakin' thru or are giving it a quik loop?? :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol:

Personally I do not think paying "volunteers" to brush trails or the many many other things that club volunteers is the answer. It would make sledding extremely cost prohibitive and I believe lead to numerous small areas like Haliburton. It would probably be the end of a province wide pass and touring sledding as we know it.

Now - having said that I would like to see the OFSC in Barrie do a better job of promoting/coordinating volunteers. Especially those (like me) who do not live where they ride and cannot sit on the club executive but would like to assist when they can (more project oriented). The clubs just do not have the manpower or system to do it!!

I have yet to hear that ANYONE who sent their OFSC volunteer card back (postage paid by the OFSC) last season has been contacted about volunteering. I have ranted about clubs complaining about lack of help, but not doing a good job of contacting those interested (unless they are a local) have been clear. I would like to see the local clubs start to tap into the large sledding base that travels to the snow (cottage etc). There is a huge work force going untapped.

Just because you trailer to a location does not mean you cannot buy your pass there. We have a group of 5 guys we ride with. We buy our passes as follows: 2 from the MSR, 2 from the Near North and 1 from the Hill and Gully Riders out of Port Sydney (not part of the MSR). We feel it is the best way to spread our $$ across the trails that we actually do ride on.

In yet another attempt to provide help I approached the MSR booth at the TO Show in Friday. I told him that we have been offering to help over the past 2 years. We have done the following:

1. We sent in 5 OFSC volunteer cards with no response.
2. I sent an email directly to the OFSC expressing interest in their new volunteer programs
3. A member here who is a OFSC District Rep contacted both the MSR, Hill & Gully Riders and the Happy Wanderers on my behalf.
4. I sent an email directly to the MSR after this providing my contact info and offering to help
5. I sent a PM to the President of the Happy Wanderers on Ontarioconditions.com in response to a thread he had about looking to rebuild the Skyway Bridge south of Baysville.
6. My retired Father attended a Happy Wanderers club meeting and put his name down as a volunteer

To date we have NOT BEEN CONTACTED BY ANYONE!!

I told the MSR rep that at the show and said. Now - I want to give you my name, # and email AGAIN with an offer to help. He did not even have a piece of paper or ANYWAY to take expressions of interest from VOLUNTEERS!! :banghead: He went and got a scrap piece of paper and I gave him the info.

I have yet to hear anything - not even a short email saying - thanks for the offer - we will be in touch!!

The Clubs MUST do a better job of utilizing the resources available to them and the OFSC MUST be the quarterback of this intiative as the local clubs simply do not have the manpower to do it! EVERY club in Central Ontario should have been accepting NAMES of volunteers at the TO Sled Show. And, next year EVERY Club should have 1-3 work weekends arranged to allow these "Weekend Warriors" to help out!

PAYING the "Volunteers" is NOT THE ANSWER!!!

P.S. I do not see what the big deal is with Haliburton - $35 to ride around in a friggen circle all day - oh yeah - what fun!! Sure perhaps at the beginning of the season - to scratch the itch - but the rest of the time - no thanks!

Also - I always thought going from Kennisis through base camp to Redstone was okay without a pass??

:smilielol: sometimes I'll take "the long way around" dutton lake rd.... so to bypass base camp of course where the big orange dude cruises around looking for tresspassers.... like me... :smilielol:

I usually buy at least 4 day passes a year = $140, not to mention the $$ @ the shitty restaurant.... and I probably put 200miles on in there....

to be honest a lot of the time I have no way of paying until I'm out of there... (coming from the B trail) I'm not that nice :beerchug:

& I don't use it enough to justify a pass, but its a bargain for certain types of riders.

I think I have every colour of day pass now so maybe I dont' need to pay anymore :frech32: I'm also not that much of an asshole :cn:


it is okay, you will never have a problem with that - its when you head up the north rd after coming off the lake... most of it crosses their land, but its also a portage that's been used for thousands of years... they don't maintain it like the rest of their trails, but it's their land and they could shut it down if they wanted I would think. :frech32:

Sobeit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,You just clouded the issue, at least for me.


1. how much did the bridge cost?
2. How much is small, or how much did sledders contribute?
3. Who else contributed and how much?
4. Who uses the bridge, other than sledders?

Thanks for the clarification, in advance!

the dawg :linemup:

:banghead: Sorry, not trying to cloud the issue. Answers in the sequence posed:
1) Don't know exactly.
2) An educated guess would be 10% - 20% over the course of about five years.
3) Town of Gravenhurst, and various other government ministries with grant programs at the time of bridge construction.
4) I think it may be used as part of the Trans Canada trail through Gravenhurst.

Here's hoping for snow. :fluffy: