I noticed that there is a Bernie Sanders for senate sign on the Coles pond web cam page.
Did you know that when B.S. aka Bernie was the Mayor of Burlington VT he was also the ONLY
self proclaimed socalist mayor in the country!!!!

Hey I know he used to live in Walden and all but how can a snowmobiler support such a candidate???

I know he hides behind the term independent now but I know what he truly is
I just thought you would like to know!!!

Well we are still on the subject of VT polotics I remember when ol Scudder Parker was a preacher well that is
untill he ran of on his wife with one of his own college students!!!

Both of these guys are anti-private property rights and therefore anti-sportsman/atvsnowmobile!!!!

Just thought you would like to know!!!
DOC
Born

Third carbon copy post. You're pissing me off dude. :frech32:

It is not my intention to piss you Robert.
If I have I want to apologize :div20:

Since this is a Vermont issue I'm going to leave this post here and add a poll to it. I'm curious as to how many can actually support Tarrant. I think Tarrent is trying to buy the election and is running an unbelievably dirty campaign. Vermonters don't like that sort of thing. Contrast Tarrant's campaign to that of Republican Martha Rainville (running for Bernie's old House seat). She is running such a nice campaign I'm tempted to vote for her myself.

Think this post is getting sent to the CE forum... People will shit when they read your tempted to vote republican. They ll probably think I typed it myself.

Rainville is going out of her way to stress herself as an "independent in the Vermont tradition", and running a very clean campaign. I admire that.

" I think Tarrent is trying to buy the election and is running an unbelievably dirty campaign"

Do you mean like purposly misspelling someones screen name???
:div20:

she's very moderate, somewhat left, which will go well with many vermonters. i saw her speak here at UVM last spring... i came away dissapointed. "jeffers republican".

she's head and shoulders above welch, though.

I'm not running for anything :tease: :wut60: :smilielol:

don't worry Dr, skuda ain't got a chance. douglas is enjoying ratings in the 60% range last i heard (3 weeks ago?).

if skuda wins though, watch two of our businesses jump to nh quick. can't survive a state-by-state healthcare system. we wouldn't be able to compete with our nh neighbors who don't foot the cost... we'd have to join them to survive. i have a feeling we wouldn't be the only ones, either. i stress that it isn't because we don't believe in such a thing (universal care), but because our business would die instantly. excavation gets contracts by bidding. if our costs go up, so do our bid's compared to competitors.


imagine the tax base lost if such a thing happens. we would not be the only ones leaving. everyone (dem/'pub/other) think of that. you'd have a universal health care system, and no money to fund it (not that there is anyway).


edit: and by all means, this is not partisanship talking, for once. it's the truth, and all should take a hard look at the implications. keep an eye on your property taxes if skuda wins.

A dirty campaign?By making people aware of how OUR representatives vote on important issues!I guess that is why some people say that knowledge is dangerous.

Making people aware, or marketing the aspect of the bill voted on to benefit your own campain?

I can't stand those adds....I'm not necessarily saying old bernie is the answer, but honestly, what rational human being would vote AGAINST the amber alert, unless there was a very relevant reason? (I would assume thats the one you are thinking of)

I don't follow politics that much, but how is Tarrant's campaign that negative? Those ads just say how Bernie voted, not that he's a peice of shit. Sure there's a negative sound to them, but 'it is how he voted' to quote the ads. Besides, how can any snowmobiler that really cares about the sport support a candidate that tries to backdoor an expansion of 'wilderness' in the GMNF?

My 2 cents

My problem is most people that are for Bernie say they'll vote for him because he helps them out.I ask them,In what way?They have no answer.Bernie is so anti business that we can't keep half our kids in state.My son is attending a college in Mass. and he has no plans on coming back to Vt. to work.Why,because VERY few hi-tech businesses come to vt because of the perceived bias against them.Bernie would likes us all to have organic farms and sit by the road and sell maple syrup.What is wrong with bringing out the truth on a voting record?I would think more people should be pissed at Bernie!!!Wake up vt!!!we have a chance to send a self made man who I would bet has tackled some very tough business decisions and came out on top.Because he is wealthy should not be a reason to vote against him.He EARNED his money by busting ass and he earned my vote the same way.

:div20:

Tarrant's ads are deceptive. Many times bills are bundled together with other bills, just to get certain politicians "on the record" voting for or against something just for misleading ads like this. Bernie voted FOR many of the issues in Tarrants commercials showed Bernie voted against in certain votes, because those bills were tied to other bills (like free spending budget bills, or bills for the war, etc). It just ain't that simple. Tarrant is using tricks right out of Karl Rove's paybook. Smear tactics and attempting to "Swiftboat" his opponent. And you don't mind Tarrant spending MORE on his campaign than in ANY OTHER SENATE RACE in the WHOLE COUNTRY??? In a little state like Vermont? Give me a fucking break, Tarrant is a sleezeball. I hope he spends every bit of his fortune and he will lose anyway.

Must be the amber alert bill was "packaged"with a defense budget bill.lol!How can you say smear tactics when it is the truth?Has Bernie received his ACLU kickback yet?Talk about fuckin sleazeballs!As far as money spent,it is his and he can spend it any way he wants,it just proves to me how much this job means to him.

Good example. tarrant's smear ads would have you believe Bernie was against the Amber alert. Just the opposite, he voted FOR the amber alert several times. Look it up.

The way I see it: Vote for Tarrant if you want to, but don't twist the truth just to suit your agenda. Vermont doesn't need the Beltway's style of negative politics.

And one other thing that I said on the other thread I want to point out here too, is Bernie has always been a friend to VAST and snowmobilers. Google "Bernie Sanders VAST snowmobiling" and see for yourself.

Bernie voted for 5.8 million dollars of federal transportation funds earmarked for off highway to be used for the Lamoille Valley Rail Trail. He is a friend of motorized recreation. The Wilderness expansion was proposed by the Green Mountain Club and never opposed by motorized recreation. The Vermont Forest and Parks study that limited the expansion did not get a lot of public support. It did get support from us but we were outgunned by the tree hugger groups. If you want Bernie to vote for our interests, you need to let him know.

The reason Bernie is the best choice is he will follow the will of the voters.


Now go out and vote on Nov.7th

ZLSS made some great points and I completely agree that everyone needs to get out and vote on 11/7.

Whether or not you like Bernie you do need to consider that Bernie was instrumental in attaining funding for the Lamoille Rail Trail. Bernie has long been a friend of Vermont sledders and often attends the Annual VAST Meeting. Two years ago Bernie rode a sled up in Little River State Park during the legislative ride. I remember hearing that someone asked Bernie how long he had been riding and he said "I was born on a snowmobile". I am not sure if anyone else noticed but Bernie attended the Annual Vast Meeting again this year and Rich Tarrant did not.

Well Rob, I did some research on Bernie's and Tarrant's views on things, which is something I've never done before. I don't think I'll change my mind as a result, but now I'm informed at least. All because of this forum. It just might be the first productive thing I've done as a result of HCS! Thanks for the good discussion!

and people would have been bitchin if tarrant did show up. "he's only looking for votes."
damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Very good point. Its what makes it so hard to choose responsibly. There are some candidates that choose their platform based on their beliefs, and there are some that choose their platform based on how many votes they think they can capture. (I'm generalizing here, not specifiying Bernie or Tarrant as one or the other)

You may be right about that however I for one would have loved to have heard Rich Tarrant speak at the Annual VAST Meeting. Rich Tarrant is a smart man, a successful businessman and has qualities that could make him an excellent senator. I consider myself open minded when it comes to politics and vote according to who I like and not which political party they belong to. I still haven't made my mind up in regards to whom I am going to vote for in the senate race but do wish I knew more about Tarrant's stand on snowmobiling in the state of Vermont.

I think the idea that Tarrant didn't show at VAST annual meeting was because people would have said "he's only looking for votes" is about the weakest rationalization I've ever heard :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol:

Oh, so why go to anything.. "They'd only think I was looking for votes".. Why the fuck else would a politican go anywhere??? Jesus :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Just a little info on some of Bernie's supporters.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: September 27, 2006

CONTACT: Tim Lennon, 857-0491

Tarrant Campaign to Sanders: Stop Using Dubilier to Dupe Public and Pull Ad

The Tarrant for Senate campaign today called on Congressman Bernie Sanders to pull his deceptive ad immediately.

At a press conference on Saturday at the former site of York Capacitor in Winooski, Congressman Sanders condemned outsourcing and announced that he would introduce legislation to outlaw tax breaks for firms that export jobs to countries where labor is cheap and benefits minimal.

He also unveiled a new television ad that features individuals who have lost their jobs after they were moved to another country.

Here's what the ad says:

"Bernie is known as a protector of the worker and the way he goes about doing that is protecting the businesses that are employing those workers."

Mathias Dubilier
Owner, Winooski Manufacturing Company

Here's what the ad doesn't tell you:

Mathias Dubilier is not just the owner of the Winooski Manufacturing Company. In fact, he did just what Congressman Sanders condemns business owners for doing: he outsourced jobs

Here are the facts:

Who is Mathias Dubilier?

Until February 2004 Mathias Dubilier was the owner of York Capacitor
In 2004 Mathias Dubilier sold York Capacitor to CDE
What did CDE do after it bought York Capacitor from Mathias Dubilier?

Just what Mathias Dubilier told the workers at York Capacitor it would do: move their jobs to Mexicali, Mexico
"When Mathias Dubilier sold York in February 2004, he told employees that the new owner, CDE, would close the Winooski plant and move operations to Mexicali, Mexico..." (Burlington Free Press, March 31, 2005)
Who is CDE

CDE is short for Cornell Dubilier Electronics -- yes, the same Dubilier family
Cornell Dubilier Electronics is a South Carolina based company that has a manufacturing plant located in Mexicali, Mexico
"The Sanders ad features an outsourcer disguised as a victim of outsourcing. You can't profit by selling your business to another member of your family while at the same time knowing full well that the jobs will be moved to Mexico and then cry foul," said Tarrant campaign manager Tim Lennon.

"Congressman Sanders should stop running this deceptive and fraudulent ad immediately," Lennon continued.

but berni went because he has a soft spot for us.

Bernie has always supported snowmobilers. I know that fact galls you. Get over it.

this is great. one guy says tarrant didn't attend as if he doesn't care about snowmobilers. then another guy says the only reason tarrant would have gone would be for the vote... so my question is, if tarrant DID go, would it be because he A) cares about snowmobilers, or B) wanted the vote?

on the other hand we have people saying berni went because he cares deeply about us, but then, well, you said it yourself rob in that last line. so why did berni really go?

i'm confused. we have too many stories going around. looks like a lynch mob for tarrant.

if he likes snowmobiling, great, it helps us out. the only problem i have deals with the hypoctitical stories.

^^^ for robs last reply

Are you so naive that I need to tell you that any and all politicans want the vote? They need votes to exist, why is that hard to understand?

Bernie looks out for the little guy. He is grass roots. grass roots in Vermont includes snowmobiling. Bernie has a history of supporting snowmobiling. What more do you need?

Tarrant is an asshole that is trying to buy the election and only cares about himself.

A vote for Tarrant is a vote against snowmobiling. How does that make you guys feel?

This is a great discussion and I am glad that everyone is speaking their mind.

I completely agree that Bernie looks out for the little guy and that Bernie has a strong history of supporting snowmobiling in Vermont. Besides that he is a very approachable and I have personally spoken to him three times since last spring. Once at the Waterbury flea market, again at the Willie Nelson show in Shelburne (he sat directly behind me for the entire show with Senator Leahy) and again in the parking lot during happy hour at the Annual VAST Meeting. Each time I explained to him that I appreciated his support of snowmobiling in Vermont and each time he was very positive about the sport and listened to every word that I said.

Not sure if Tarrant is an asshole even though he may have come across that way during the campaign. I think he probably means well and wants to do the best thing for Vermont. He was an idiot for the running the negative campaign ads and I think they probably cost him any chance he might have had in beating Bernie. Like I stated earlier, Rich Tarrant does have some desirable qualities that might help us in the senate with funds appropriation and getting bills passed that could benefit the state. In my opinion, Tarrant held his own in the Winooski debate and now that his campaign has changed his tone it might be too early to count him out.

I am also not sure that a vote for Tarrant is a vote against snowmobiling. I only say this because no one seems to know exactly what Tarrant's stance is on snowmobiling. I have seen the "Snowmobilers For Tarrant" stickers but they mean nothing to me. Unless I am able to track down something that indicates that Tarrant supports snowmobiling I may have to agree with you on this point.

If anyone knows Tarrants views on snowmobiling please speak up.

Please elaborate on why Tarrant is against snowmobiling,would you please?

no shit, really? thanks for the clue.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=548...mp;nav=4QcSW97Z

nothing about snowmobiling in that article.

If one candidate has a proven record of supporting and helping snowmobilers and snowmobiling concerns, and the other candidate's views on snowmobiling are unknown, then if you vote for the candidate with the unknown views and unproven record you are voting against snowmobiling.

Tarrant is for Tarrant. He'll say and do anything just to get elected. It really doesn't matter, as the majority of Vermonters see right through him and don't like the negative ads. Karl Rove tactics don't work in Vermont.

Rob,you said a vote for Tarrant is a vote against sledders,where is the proof?I'm all for supporting a candidate whichever side your on,but you haven't put up ANY facts to support you statement.Kinda an alleged Rove tactic,wouldn't you say?

I just said, if you vote against a proven record you are in effect voting against snowmobiling.

One thing about conservatives.. they just can't come out and say it like it is. Why not just admit it? You want to vote against Bernie because he is a perceived Socialist, and you won't let the fact that Bernie has been a friend to snowmobiling get in your way. Just say it, you'll feel better.

Rob, Don't hold back !!! Tell us how you really feel :banana: My vote is for Tarrant. I know him a little personally and profesionally(we run a large Vt. business) . I know Bernie a little personally but not professionally ( he being a career politician ) Rich Tarrant is NOT against snowmobilers !! I have heard him say it . HE loves the outdoors and believes we ALL have a right to it ! My interests for this state involve my kids and my business. I want this state to be business friendly so that my kids MIGHT want to live and work here. I want them to be achievers and to do that takes opportunity and opportunity is leaving this state fast !!!!! THe current state politicians other than Jim Douglas have not done a very good job. Vermont is looked at as an ODD state nationally because of the past and present misdirection. Bernie is a joke around Washington. You can always count on him to be different and that is great !! But, People are measured by what they have accomplished..... NUFF SAID Time for a change...... It has been nice being a member of HCS, I hope to still be one after Rob reads this :tease:

we are sportsmen, and use the same lands that unters and fishermen use. we are, for the most part, all in the boat together. there are differences for snowmobilers, granted, but the overall picture for everyone is the same.


how do you figure? because there isn't a paper trail to follow he is automtically against something? are you kidding? using this logic, you should never vote for anyone but someone who's held elective office. why? no paper trail of course! excellent point rob. glad to see your impartiality is showing.



IF tarrant is for snowmobiling, as skid says, then we'll be swapping one advocate for another.
IF tarrant is not for it, sure, i'll still vote for him. why? well, someone in the CE forum, on your side, said it best. "there are more important issues then snowmobiling".

oh, one last thing: he isn't a percieved socialist. ask him... he'll readily acknowledge it. thanks, but no thanks.

by the way rob, thanks for the slam. i listed no reason for tarrant not showing up at the meeting.... no "weak rationalization". people bitched cause he didn't show, and people would have bitched if he had. either way, people would have been bitching. and that, was my only point.

Good way to stifle the discussion. Obviously you don't spend much time in the c/e forum.

Sometimes I wonder why I put all the time and effort into this place.. I have to believe that most of our members have more understanding than you.



Brad, if you notice, I deliberately didn't post that as a quote, just for that reason. It seems that you have been following me around now for a while. First it was comments about my cut and pastes and now this. Do you have a problem with my views? ..Again it seems to me that in exchange for all the work I do around here that I can at least post my opinions without people dogging my footsteps. Chill out dude. You are very uptight for your age. Have a beer, smoke a joint, or get laid. Whatever it takes you need to loosen up a bit. :beer:

Rob, I try not to take politics too seriously ! In fact a good share of it is a JOKE. And I certainly did not mean to offend or stifle, just tease in good fun and share opinion....... I will also say AGAIN how much I appreciate what you do for all of us sledheads.You do a fabulous job! And a often thankless one at that. As of this morning this is USA (still) and we are ALL allowed to speak our mind.... even if someone might have a difference of opinion.... Man this kitchen is hot, I am gettin out, gotta go steel some more of Bernies signs :no_bashing:

Rob,you are backtracking big time.On one of your prior posts,you said,and I quote"a vote for tarrant is a vote against snowmobiling"Now it is against a proven record.Doesn't someone deserve a chance to build a "record"To be very honest,either one of their views on snowmobiling is not that high on my list of reasons to vote for a candidate.The big picture is my family and my business with sledding somewhere down the line.Why don't the liberals admit to the fact that Tarrant being wealthy due to hard work and not handouts is the real reason why you guys dislike him.

if you put words in my mouth, i'm gonna defend myself...

Wow, this very interesting and getten a little touchy.

Where's yo momma"s point of view?

I vote for yo momma

My Letter to Tarrant:

Hi Mr Tarrant,

I was wondering what your stance was on the snowmobiling industry in Vermont. Do you support Vermont Assn. of Snow Travelers?

Roger Gosselin
V.P. Drift Dusters Snowmobile Club - Derby, Vt


His Reply:

Hey Roger! Thanks for the question.

Where do I stand on snowmobiling? I love snowmobiling and I think itis a very fun and healthy way to enjoy Vermont's wilderness.

You should join our "Sportsman for Tarrant" coalition. If you want to, e-mail our political director at dwelch@tarrant06.com. His name is David Welch.

See you on the trail...um, campaign OR Snowmobile.
-rich

From what I gather, he supports sportsman, i.e hunters, snowmobilers... I am not a big fan of Bernie so since Tarrant supports snowmobilers, hes got my vote...

GaderX,

Thanks for doing the legwork, contacting Rich Tarrant and posting his stance on snowmobiling. :div20:

Now my decision on who to vote for has become much more complicated.

Tony

he wants snowmobilers to join his sportsman coalition? interesting.

Lately there has been many letters to local papers implying that socialists are really communists. It appears that these are planted letters to make Bernie seem like a commie.
What’s so wrong with socialism anyway?
I don’t think there is anybody on this forum that would not benefit from social programs., you all wish you were capitalists but you are only their pawns.
I lived in Vt for 13 years and wish NH had politicians like Bernie.
Tarrant sucks GWB’s hind tit.

yeah, tarrant's the sneaky bastard. sanders is sending out a mass mailing without signifying who paid for it.