just trying to find out how to replace rear torsion springs on my 04 xcsp 600 I have just orderes heavy duty springs for it because I noticed the rear was bottoming out pretty hard on our ride last any help would be appreciated

mike

Take the back bolts out and leave the front arm bolts in. Loosen the track to help you when its time to put the back bolts back in. I don't remember if Polaris allows you to lift the spring off the front slide block -- if so, do this before you pull the bolts out so you can take tension off the rear arm. When you install the suspension, wait to tension the springs until after the bolts are back in. Realign the track so the lugs are equal distance to the clip. I like to keep my tracks on the loose side as much as possible.

First, betting your bottoming problem (unless you are over 300 lbs) is not the result of your springs. It's usually something that can be adjusted out, or done by rebuilding a tired shock.

Thinking the rear torsion arm carries no track tension load. That's all done with the front arm. Springs are easy to change by removing the tension from the rear springs, removing the rear (only) suspension attach bolts, and lifting the back of the sled up to clear the suspension. Remove the link on each side, and swap out your springs. Reverse to reassemble, paying attention to the fact that the links are keyed to fit on the rear torsion cross shaft in only one position. A little grease on those splines during reassembly goes a long way to prevent them from stripping, or corroding.

If you are going with the heavy springs, you might want to try moving the spring rollers (that the spring arms run on in the front) from the middle (factory mounted) hole, to the front holes. That will give the suspension a little better chance at overcoming the springs, maybe leave you with a little better ride.

i concur. I was over 300 last year (not anymore...YAY!), and only bottomed out maybe 3 times all season. I did have the preload set to the highest setting, though. You might check that too before you actually change em...

i change my springs in all the sleds i ride i run around 220-230 you need a pair of needle nose vise grips for the nuts on rear tunnel bolts[should have real tool but i couldn't find one] as long as you have it on tight and it won't stip it

Get a thin open end wrench at Sears. I don't remember the part number, but I think it is a 3/4" and 7/8" open end that is about half as thick as a normal wrench.
Also put a strap between the front and rear upper tubes and it will go back in easier.

I'm about 230 lbs....thought i needed stiffer springs in my 04-05 edges also. You don't...my suspension was actually not bottoming....it wasn't quite getting full travel after a buddy checked it out for me. He moved the rollers to the forward most hole in the rails that the torsion spring rides on. Just a small adjustment but very effective.

At 230 lbs you are not getting full travel is this with stock springs?
I weight 220 and I know I bottom it bad.
I am putting in a PPSIII with a clicker I will see what differnce that makes. What shock package do you have?

I have all the stock springs....have a clicker for a rear track shock...i guess its a ps3....ryde for the front track shock...ryde solo clickers for the ifs. I run the rear torsion springs in the mid cam position...this is with a full compliment of saddle bags full of gear plus myself. All the linkage settings are in stock holes. Absolutly love the sled...its compliance got better with age. Last spring i demoed the new yamaha 4 strokes...thought my sled with over 5000 miles on it rode a lot better then the standard apex. My buddy helped out big time by knoting a piece of yarn around the rear shock shaft and had me do my usual riding...then looked at it and showed me i originally wasn't using all the available travel up in the shock. Tried a softer cam setting on the torsion springs but it left the ride height kind of screwed up where it felt i had no steering....he then moved the torsion spring roller forward and the cam back to the middle position....sled never rode or handled better. :div20:

I wonder if some are not mistaking "bottoming" for just hitting the rear scissor stops?
If they are set way back, they may feel like it's bottoming, but may not be hitting the rail stops? Not sure, just something to check for maybe. IMHO, you would need to be around 280+ lbs to even need the heavy springs. The heavy springs on low setting, would be like 2 steps above the OEM spring on the high setting. Chopper City makes an aluminum block for the spring adjuster that has 6 settings, and 2 of them are higher than the stock high setting, if I remember right, just something to consider. Another thing is that the rear shock may have lost it's gas charge, that will make it feel weaker also.

I believe those sicissor stops were what i originally mistook for bottoming...i tried moving the clicker settings on the rear track shock but ended up back at what i think was the stock #4 setting.... couldn't really discern any change one click either way. The only change was moving that roller forward...all else is still factory stock.

Mike if your over 230 ~240 lbs I agree get the .405 springs BUT if your not your best action taken is this.

Rebuild the skid shocks and have a clicker added to the rear track shock. The pps shock is way to soft for a big guy that rides hard. A factory clicker shock would be my first choice but paying retail on one in my eyes is to much money (I would pay 150~175 tops for one not the 329.00 they want). next move the front point where the spring sits to the next hole foward and see what you think. Shocks first then springs , I did what your thinking of doing . In then end the clicker with stock spring worked best , the .405" spring at 235 lbs was just to much spring. Rode harsh and would hardly compress with me sitting onit with the springs set on low.

All else being equal, moving the roller forward will act to weaken the rear springs, to the rear will stiffen.

Agree with the thought of the suspension collapsing to the point where the link hits the RRSS being mistaken for bottoming a lot of the time. Lots of trouble there. To collapse any further from there, you are compressing both front AND rear springs about equally - spring rate jumps WAY up at that point. (Likely the reason the one sled mentioned above starting getting more usable travel while moving roller forward)

Most will not feel the difference in one click on the clickers. Sometimes helps to move it several clicks, make big changes, to really get a good idea of what your change is doing. Suggest same for a lot of the other adjustments when dealing with/learning what the Edge is capable of.

Just as a suggestion, thinking a lot of the 215-250lb (and bigger) guys using standard springs can get a big advantage moving the bottom of the link to the rear hole also. Just don't forget to move the RRSS back the same amount to get the same coupling as had previous to moving the link (don't be shy of using that back hole). If you forget/don't take a minute to do that, you're going to couple up way earlier, and think I'm nuts for suggesting this. It's going to be really stiff without moving the RRSS (rear stop) back at the same time.

mickahicks,

10-4 good buddy,

Correct about the roller forward 'softening' the spring rate. a little. Keep in mind, that the long leg of the torsion spring doesn't bend much anyway, the spring action is mostly from the coils twisting or untwisting.

It is also on the money that to compare different springs without also identifying scissors link mounting and coupling block positions, is missing two big factors in the rear suspension. It is also helpful to have a real number with regard to initial sag (as described in most of the owners manuals), so better advice can be given.

<<<Keep in mind, that the long leg of the torsion spring doesn't bend much anyway, the spring action is mostly from the coils twisting or untwisting.>>>

I agree. I think of the long leg as a lever that twists the coil. The more you choke up on that lever, the harder it is to move. Consider where you would grab the spring to lift it off the roller......

Something else some may also notice regarding roller position, as the roller is moved back on the rail using the available holes, the initial spring pre load goes down. Those holes in the rails should have been drilled increasingly higher as you go back to maintain the same initial load - NOT in a line parrallel with the rails (an unfortunate engineering blunder). If you decide to drill your own hole, you won't be the first. Just be aware that there is a steel reinforcement plate on the inside of the rail, and I would think you would want to make darn sure your new hole is contained within it. Some of us (FARC's) are drilling that new hole 1" directly above the existing rear hole. This discovery (worked out in a joint brain jam session with a member of a different site) is actually one of the best things I've done to the ride/handling of the Edge skid on my own sleds (along with the installation of a clicker rear shock). Remember though - I'm 6'2"/300.....and using standard springs.


<<<It is also helpful to have a real number with regard to initial sag (as described in most of the owners manuals), so better advice can be given.>>>

I couldn't possibly agree more. That's the absolute first place to start setting up a suspension that's really going to go to work for you.

The problem is getting a good sag reading sometimes - especially if/when the RRSS stop has been inadvertently set too far forward. The guy says he's within the recommended sag dimensions - and he's right. Early on, I struggled with this myself. Nowhere does it mention that this is a no no, and I'd be willing to bet it's the most frequent mistake there is when setting sag.

To anyone interested, to get that initial sag setting correct (unless you are going for that very difficult to set up fully coupled configuration) you need to first understand that the scissor link cannot be in contact (leaning on) the RRSS with your loaded weight on the sled. That condition WILL GIVE A FALSE (low) SAG DIMENSION. The link must be free to stand on it's own to get a correct sag setting. (I hope I don't confuse anyone with the way that's written)

The cam adjustment is where you would start when setting sag, but if you are not able to to accomplish your target sag using those, there are the spring roller positions, and also the lower scissor link position. As mentioned earlier, moving to the rear link hole is is where I would start if on the larger side.

IMHO, the bottom line with regard to the HD springs. They are for guys seeking to punish themselves with an extra stiff ride for one reason or another, or for those that are unable/unwilling to get the initial sag dimension in line with recomedations using any or all possible combination of adjustments available to them. In other words, there are darn few that actually need them. -Al