After pulling my carbs from my XCR for a good cleaning, I discovered that my plug wires from my coils were not going to the cylinder directly above it. The coil wire on clutch side was going to the middle cylinder and the middle coil had its wire going to the cylinder on the clutch side. The parts diagram shows one single wire going from one coil to the next, so I'm thinking the coils all fire at the same time, is that right?


How would this affect the engine performance, if at all?


Please tell me this will make the sled generally slow and not really run like it should, because this sled has been less then satisfying in the performance aspect. :banghead:

Thanks.

I know that on two cylinders if you mix up the plugs wires it will not start because each wire sparks at a certain time. Thats why on most sleds the wires can only go to one plug because the length of the wire wont reach the other plug. I am assuming it is the same for three cylinders but not 100% sure.

they all fire together. 3 cyl fifre 3 times per revolution. twin twice.

I'm hoping when I get this thing back together, it runs much better. I swapped the wires back to the way it shows in the blow up diagram.

It used to get up to 8-8500 RPM, but the speed it simply not there...maybe 80 on the speedo across an open lake. I can't keep up with my father in laws studded 95 Vmax 600, he leaves me like I'm in reverse. I'm also studded, but it doesn't seem to matter.

maybe it has something to do with your clutching?

it makes NO differance where the wires go on a 2stroke, the ignition fires ALL plugs mutiple time per revolution. if the manufacturers needed them to go to a certain cyl they would be labeled for each cyl but seems these dont have distributors it dont matter.

:cn: :cn: :cn:
On the contrary, not all 2-stroke engines fire all plugs simultaneously!!!!
The 95-96 XCR 600 MONOBLOCK engine does (called "waste fire"). But, the 96 600 XCR-SP triple cylinder, triple pipe DOESN"T. It depends on how the manufacturer configured the ignition system. One reason not to fire all simultaneously is that the spark can be made more powerful due to longer "dwell" time to allow each coil to build up it's hottest spark. Another reason, is that it unnecessarily wears out the plug. One indicater of which system you have is to look at the coils and how the small (primary) wires are routed. If they are routed to each coil in series, positive to negative, etc., they fire simultaneously. If they have separate primary wires from the CDI box to each coil, it fires SEQUENTIALLY according to a specific order. In this case, if you mix them up it won't run well, if at all. On a Twin, if both plug leads come from one coil, they fire simultaneously.
Good luck!
:doh: :div20:

[quote=machz1,Dec 16 2005, 01:29 PM]
it makes NO differance where the wires go on a 2stroke,

That's kind of an all-encompassing statement that is not really correct - it depends on the design of the engine. Some multi-cylinder 2 stroke engines will have a single coil with a distributor, some will have multiple coils with different coil "triggers" - boils down to the specific engine design/purpose.

[quote=tv4fish,Dec 16 2005, 04:18 PM]
[quote=machz1,Dec 16 2005, 01:29 PM]
it makes NO differance where the wires go on a 2stroke,

That's kind of an all-encompassing statement that is not really correct - it depends on the design of the engine. Some multi-cylinder 2 stroke engines will have a single coil with a distributor, some will have multiple coils with different coil "triggers" - boils down to the specific engine design/purpose.

[/quote]
yes guys i understand this BUT there were only a few of these sleds that fired sequentially throughout the yrs and most of them were polaris's old ones. i was trying to keep it simple for the poster as the odds he has one of the sequential firing ones is slim. on the newer sleds today, 04's and up im not 100% sure if the ignitions stay the same but on the MOST of the older stuff they fired all at the same time.

this statement is incorrect. my 98 skidoo machz has 3 wires from the cdi box and one wire goes to each individual cyl and it DOES NOT MATTER which one goes where! ive switched them many times doing trouble shooting procedures, i also asphalt race and i know my way around a 2stroke. all triples doo or cat etc etc ive ever seen it did NOT matter how there hooked up.

The secondary clutch was upgraded by the previous owner. I had the sled looked at by a local friend mechanic last year and he said everything checks out OK. The clutches are misaligned by a fraction, but he said it's not enough really to matter. The sled engages around 3500-4000, but simply does not pull hard when I ask it to.

The coils being screwed up has been dissolved as a problem, so now I look elsewhere. I have the carbs off and plan on breaking them down and making sure everything is OK in there. If it's not that, I don't know what I'm going to do with this thing...

Anyone have any ideas? I'm getting desperate and I'll try anything...

:cn: :cn: :cn:
I stand corrected. Sorry. At the ripe age of 36, you have become a genius.

:cn: :cn: :cn:
Check engine compression. It should be around 125 psi each cyl.
Then, make sure you are reaching at least 8000-8500 rpm during wide open throttle acceleration. If not, figure out why not by checking clutch weights, spring, converter buttons, helix, spring, and tension. If the secondary was upgraded by someone else, it may have the wrong set-up inside. Call a local dealer to learn what should be in there. Check for correct belt (Polaris 042 or 1105 Max, or 4716 Ultimax), and width (1 3/8").
Check belt side clearance in the clutch. Should be around .020". If too much, it will lower WOT rpm.
Good luck
:div20: :div20: :div20:

I checked comp last season, it was 120 across the board. I'll research the clutch specs and make sure it's OK.

I KNOW the belt clearance is more than .020 in the primary. I wanted to have that shimmed this summer and it slipped my mind. I wasn't sure how much that would affect my performance, but I knew it wasn't right.

The Polaris reed valve triple cylinder motors which were produced from 1996 on have a Digital Ignition system and sequential (not simultaneous) firing of the spark plugs by individual coils. These motors include the '96 600 XCR SP, Ultra, and Storm, and in later years the Ultra SPX, 700 XCR and 800 XCR ending in 2003 with the last 800 XCR.

so how come i can swap wires on my '00 XCR 800 and it still runs fine??

as for setting up your '95 XCR 600, what is it currently set-up with?? pipes?? airbox?? engine mods?? jetting?? and most important, what type of riding do you want it dialed in for?? for a stock motor, run a straight 36* helix with Poalris Silver secondary spring in the #2 hole and a red primary (120-260) spring with 10M-blue weights. piston port timed motors like clutch engaugement around 4500-5000.

dude, bite me, you find ONE freakin manual or race book from skidoo or ac that says it matters where the wires go and if you do ill eat them freakin wires. age has nothing to do with intelligence and thats pretty obvious by your remarks. for a performance shop your not really very bright are you? i wouldnt let you work on my little diecast sled models say nothing about a real sled.

there were a few polaris sleds that had sequential firing, which ones i do not know and im also not sure about the newer(03 and up) ones but 99% of the older sleds it did not matter! the easiest way to find out is switch your wires around if it runs the same(which it will) then it is NOT sequential firing!

i can't remember any Polaris sled that has ever had sequential firing. i'd like to be corrected if i'm wrong, please post facts.

I just want a good running sled, that's all....nothing crazy. I just want the thing to start when I pull the cord and not break down...it's a lot to ask from this thing, I know.


My current set up consists of:
Studded track.
Blue primary spring with a 36-42 helix and I'm not sure of the weights(it was all in there when I got it). I mispoke earlier and said the secondary clutch had been worked on, when in fact it was the primary that had been upgraded.
The secondary has been left alone as far as I know, I have no idea which hole the spring is in.(Probably should check that out)
Wiseco pistons with about 1K miles on them.
The main jets are 260 across the board.
The needle has been moved down one ring.

I'm thinking of removing the restrictive airbox and running filters right on the carbs.

Thank you for the reply.

I spoke with a few Polaris guys and they handed me 240 main jets to try, and also said to move the needle back to the middle ring position. I'll give this a shot when I get my new skis installed and see what happens.

Interesting !!
Last summer we did some test runs for our Watercross sled 1994 XLT 580...
We try few setups, plugs, etc.
The plug wires ended up in "wrong" location.
I do some skipping and sled runs like crap!! Poor idle and no power.
Then we noticed the mistake, correct and poo runs fine again.

If 2 cylinder engine then no matter if swap wires, tested !!
But triple.. Now i´m CONFUSED !!!

:augen41: :banghead:
Wow! You must be "STUCK on STUPID"! Who was talking about SKIDOO or CAT?
And, AGE has a lot to do with EXPERIENCE and WISDOM! And these have a lot to do with SMART! But, you aren't, so BITE ME!
:div20: :div20: :div20:

you cant even come up with your own sayings so you have to use mine? what a loser, take your geriatric ass somewhere besides where the bigboys come to talk about grown up stuff, your bothering mens conversation here. if age had anything whatsoever to do with experience and wisdom you sure as hell missed the boat on that huh?

ps still waiting for the proof on that information about ANY sled sequential firing, i concede there is ONE polaris that i know about.

1 trigger coil under flywheel sends signal to CDI box 2 or 3 times a rev. (2 or 3 magnets in flywheel) depending on if it's a 2 or 3 cylinder. CDI box then fires ALL coils at the same time every time it gets a signal, either every 180 degrees (twin) or every 120 degrees (tripple). In either case, makes no difference what wire goes where.

EXACTLY!!!!! but some so called "performance" people (and i use the term very loosly here) cant seem to understand that. i think its cenility

with the stock 3-1 pipe, 260's are rich. the 240's will be alright to about +10F, so keep an eye on the plugs. also check your float seats and intake boots. if the float needles have marks on the tip, replace needle and seat. cracked intake boots wreak havoc with jetting and performance. when the carbs are off, flexthe boots by pushing from the inside to the outside. the cracks should be very obvious. use a flashlight to check for an actual hole while flexing the boots. also have you been running premium fuel?? depending on what headgasket it came with, two were available, it may require the good stuff. a high compression gasket and crap fuel will run like shit, and lead to piston/ring failure. the stock airbox is not bad, just cut the thin filter top to allow an unobstructed path from the hood the box.

They fire at the same time, they are connected to all three coils by two wires from the stator, have worked on hundreds in my shop in the past 35 years.

The floats and needles all appeared to be fine. I thought my intake boots were cracked, but the cracks did not go all the way through. I have been running premium, but a friend with a Cat told me the dealer said to NOT run premium, the cheap stuff is recommended. The stock airbox is going back on when I'm ready to fire this thing up. I removed the silencer insert thing and was hoping to open the box up a bit. Could you be a little more specific on the thin filter top that you said to cut. Are you talking about the cover that bolts to the hood in front of the gauges with the foam under it?

the thin floam thing i was talking about sits on top of the airbox. it is a six inch square foam block about 3 inches thick. it forms a "gasket" from the airbox to the underside of hood. usually the foam has a thin layer that covers the hole acting like an air filter. the problem is it clogs up super easy and ices over, resulting in major vacuum in airbox that causes super rich fuel/air ratio. i can get you some pics on the 28th when i get home if you're still confused about my mumblings.

edit: keep running premium fuel in ti until you can figure out if it has the high compression head gasket or not. chances are it has the low comp gasket since it has been rebuilt, but better safe than sorry.

most newer engines only have 1 trigger wire that powers the coils. the coils all fire together only 1 cylinder is on compression stroke IF your engine has individual trigger wire to each coil THEN THEY NEED TO GO TO THE PROPER CYLINDER

I believe I understand what you are talking about. I had to buy that foam piece because it was missing when I purchased the sled. There is nothing inside of it though, it's like a square channel that connects the airbox to the hood. I was thinking about cutting two 3" holes in the cover that screws to the hood. There's a 1" thick piece of foam under it and the only way for the air to enter the airbox is by the sides or edges of it. The more ways for cold air to get into the airbox the better.

Would a compression test tell me which head gasket I had?