I have a couple buddies who each year decide not to purchase a snopass even though they ride the trails.

There excuse is: "They never check", or "If they check I'll just get a warning".

This really bugs me as I always buy my snopass and these fellow's don't and so far have gotten away with it.

I would love to be riding with them and they get checked and forced to buy one or fined.

Personally I think you get alot for the $70 cost of the pass.

Will snopass enforcment be stepped up this year? Meaning no warnings?

the problem with the enforcement is it has to be done by police/RCMP. if a club did enforcement and issued tickets it will be turned over in the courts.

i would prefer to see the snopass tacked onto the registration. there are very few sleds registered that do not use the trails to some degree.

Stephen

I beg to differ...
one of our members pressed charges against 3 individuals who had no pass.
Went to court and he won.
Any person can take down your plate # and press charges against you.

Stangfire, let me know when your going to be at Longbottom's. We'll put a stop to that pretty quick.
We've had good cooperation with RCMP and DNR over the past few years. We have at least 2 check stops per year where a club member will sometimes accompany the officers.
The deal has been, buy the pass on the spot, get charged for not having the pass, or have so many days to show your pass at the local RCMP detachment or you'll get the ticket in the mail.
No such thing as warnings from our detachment.

Also, the pass must be applied to your plate. No exceptions or you get the same fine.

Bravo to you guys.

Dave
Its a start but not good enough. Being forced to buy the pass on the spot, get charged for not having the pass, or have so many days to show your pass at the local RCMP detachment or you'll get the ticket in the mail is nothing more than a warning IMO.

I have buddies that refuse to pay as well. I can't be bothered to press charges but I do tell them that if they happen to run into me on the trail and an officer is near by I will turn them in. I won't ride with them and no one in our group will allow them to ride with us either. For some reason they seem to think this is unreasonable.
As far as I'm concerned they are indirectly stealing from me and anyone else who pays to ride.

10K machine, 2K for accessories and clothing, 1K for trailer, $48 for a 4L synth oil and they can't afford a sno-pass. Give me a break.

The whole issue of riders not buying passes still undermines the entire Snowman system. If everyone paid, there would be a lot more cash to spread around. Our club is similar to Dave's, we try to set up a few checkstops with the RCMP or the DNR guys each winter, we even advertize on the local radio station when it will happen. One weekend we took in over $2000 in Snopass sales just by announcing a checkstop on the radio. The checkstop didn't actually happen for one reason or another, but the point is that people will buy if they know there is a good chance of being caught. We used to give warnings, now we just give tickets. That is the only route. Zero tolerance.

I have (2) sleds, I havent been able to ride both at the same time, so if i bought 1 pass , WHY dose the sticker have to be attached,if both sleds are insured in my name?

That's the law.
Do you drive both of your cars/trucks at the same time??

Individuals that do not hold "Peace Officer" status may lay an Information for the purpose of issuing a "Ticket" in enforcing trail pass use. However; there are considerably more hurdles to jump for the issuing individual when the matter does end up in a court room. Cowboy cops also need to be concerned with their own safety, and liabilities created when they start stopping traffic where they shouldn't be. Consider what will happen when they feel the need to arrest some combative drunk. Leave it to the pros and here is how!

The ideal situation would be to work with local RCM Police members. However; they are typically up to their ass in calls-for service and consequently it is difficult for supervisors to justify their removal from regular duties. (Recent media coverage has demonstrated their shortages.)

To assist clubs in enforcement duties, club members should liase with MPI and Manitoba Law Enforcement Services. MPI is very persuasive and could probably leverage Police or Resources staff to assist in operating "Check Stop" programs. Law Enforcement Services has the ability to grant "Special Constable" status to those who do qualify but see the cautions in paragraph 1.

I use the term "Check Stop" as there is considerably more appeal to law enforcement agencies when they are able to consider Criminal Code offenses such as Impaired Driving as opposed to a lesser Provincial Statute. MADD is also very influencial and could assist in leveraging some enforcement agency. Assistence from your local MP, MLA, or area Reeve will also assist in freeing up those resources. Particularly if there was a sled related death in your area over the past couple of years. Enforcement agencies are typically very responsive to their political masters....so have the elected people do the heavy lifting for you.

A combination of strategies including the announcment of Check Stop programs for weekends when sledding conditions are ideal will go a long way regardless if the Check Stop program is out or not.

I also endorse a "no warning" policy. Check Stops should be conducted adjacent to areas where riders can pick up a trail pass or have their unregistered sleds safely towed.

Strategies for such program development may be available through your local police agency or see MB Law Enforcement Services for referal.

Good Answer

Good post Demo,
There's only one person in our club that played cop and pressed charges. Not many people would stick their neck out like that, especially when it involves going to court.
The RCMP in our area has acquired 2 newer sleds last year and have committed themselves to showing a presence this year. They attended one of our club meetings last year and were on our trails twice for sure. Since Beausejour and Oakbank RCMP have amalgamated, they have a larger pool of resources.
Our local conservation officer has also helped in the past, and probably will assist in a checkstop or two this winter. We have placed these checkstops at areas where a snowmobile is not needed, and that makes it easier for officers to help out also.
I haven't heard anything from MPI, but you're right, they would also have influence.

Have you given thought to helping us local clubs get more enforcement this winter? One spokesperson on behalf of all the Eastern clubs could be more effective than each club trying to get their own enforcement.

Dave,

I agree with your post re: Demolition perhaps stepping up in the law enforcement ring. He obviously understands the intricacies of the powers of arrest, and all the nuances of our justice system. I believe that he would be an appropriate candidate to lias with the RCMP, municipalities, SNOman, and the any other organization that influences our use of public and private lands. Kudos, Demolition, for providing answers to many questions riders have in the area.

ill be damned if i would pay for a trail pass to ride in a ditch in the selkirk area so your telling me that with this enforcement thing..if i am caught riding in the DITCH along #9 highway towards petersfeild.. i will get ticketed... i would love to see that stick in court... and for a trail that get groomed once ever 3 weeks at the most.. and is the shits at the best of times.. same as alot of trils in the selkirk area... and as for having to buy 2 trail passes... make it a card... i have 2 sleds as well.. one which i run on a dealer plate when i take it out...

blah blah, boo hoo...
cry me a river
Are you in support of organized snowmobiling in this province or not?

It's my understanding that if the trail falls on crown land you should have no problem with the ticket. I'm told from Snoman that quads are allowed on the trails except where they cross into or travel through private property. Since it is crown land, according to Stokes at Snoman, they can not stop the use of quads on these trails. If they can't stop them then what are you worried about ? If all else fails buy a $5 trappers license from conservation and if you get hassled tell them you are on your way to check some of your traps. Trappers have full use of the trails no charge, according to conservation, providing trappers are using the trail to get to or from an area where they trap and the trail is not on private property.

The snopasses are mainly enforced on crown land. That is where you legally require the Snopass (along with approved trails on private land).
I won't comment on the highway trails, as I've seen it go both ways.
I have no problem with people using the groomed ditches to get from point A to point B along the highway. It's when they continue off the highway on the groomed trail without a snopass, that pisses me off.
It's simple, if you ride the groomed trails, buy a pass.
If you ride the trails without a pass, you're cheap and a freeloader.
What's the problem here??

Buying a snopass is not just about having groomed trails.

It's also about marked and designated trails, maintained trails, trail maps, warm up shelters, fire wood, cooking stoves, candles, frypans, outhouses, shit paper, solar lights, benches, tables, points of interest, etc...........

I could go on and on. It's not just about how often the trails are groomed.

If you don't use them fine. I think the $70 is cheap for what you get.

I use all these services every weekend.

I am not in support of organized clubs when they lay claim to trails that have been around for decades, and then expect me to pay for the privelidge of riding on these same trails.

If I wanted to ride on groomed, signed, and speed limited trails I would drive my car on the highway instead.

Snopass $$ go to trails like Gas Tax goes to roads.

Ya thats the law but the law sucks Dave. I got 2 vehicles too. However I only need one parking pass for my work. I am free to transfer it from vehicle to vehicle. If i can only ride one sled at a time I should be allowed to transfer my trail pass from sled to sled.

Here we go again.
We have the people who pay every year and see the value in groomed, marked trails and huts etc.
We have the freeloaders who are just too cheap. These people probably freeload in most aspects of thier lives as well.
We also have the people who swear they only use the trails in the ditch and should not have to pay. I agree with that but I'd be willing to bet there are very few people who never stray onto the rest of the trail system. Go out of the ditch and into the trail sys once and you should pay.
Re the trail on Hwy 9 being groomed 3 times a season.
I find that hard to believe. Usually seemed to be in good shape to me and I use it regularily.

For the record I purchase a Snopass every year....therefor I reserve the right to bitch.

He who buys a pass also buys the right to complain and request change.
Agreed

maybe if you bought this pass your club would have more money to groom more often. More trail pass revenue = better trails...period.

I live in Petersfield and cross the trail/ditch everyday to get on the highway. They groomed that trail almost every week. It was pretty smooth almost all winter.

Hats off to the clubs and the groomers. We had great rides on very smooth trails almost all winter regrdless of direction you were headed in. I have to buy 4 passes
each year and no regrets.

On a another note I thought I read in the latest Snoman and heard on the radio with the president of Sno man as a guest speaker a week or 2 ago indicate that the tickets cannot be enforced and won't hold up in court. What a stupid thing to say on the radio.

Has anyone challenged a ticket?

Yea, that was the executive director. I believe he meant to say along provincial highways, but I can't confirm.
I have seen charges that have held up in court. One of our members pressed charges against 3 riders a few years back. It went to court and the 3 guys had to pay the fine.
I don't know of anyone who has challenged a ticket issued by the RCMP or DNR.

IF YOU ARE TOO F**** CHEAP TO PAY FOR A PASS STAY OFF THE TRAILS.
YOU ARE JUST F***** IT UP FOR THE PEOPLE THAT DID PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE TO RIDE ON GROOMED TRAILS. THE TRAILS DO NOT STAND UP TO AN INFINITE NUMBER OF RIDERS WITHOUT GETTING ROUGH.PAY OR STAY OFF OF THEM.

P.S. THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM IN THE DITCH TO RIDE BESIDE THE TRAIL YOU CHEAP PRICKS!!!

WAY TO GO BILL TELL THEM THE WAY IT IS!!!!!!!

I pay the 70 buck's every year, they do a good job of the trails here around Thompson. I buy it for piece of mind ,I don't want to get caught on the trail and end up paying double. Beside's it's all for a good cause I know guy's who don't buy one but that's their decision, all that hard work somone has to get paid. :div20: :beerchug:

Well, Again in the newspaper article yesterday, SNOMAN says they Can't Enforce.
The article makes it sound like if it ends up in court Snoman always loses.


WHY DO THEY KEEP SAYING THAT???

I know in Lac Du Bonnet the RCMP were checking for snow passes on a regular basis, even at night by the old pinnawa dam. The clubs need to talk to the local RC detatchment to get them to help.