Welder for shop Options

[SuperRon]

See your Snap-On dealer. The Muscle Mig (MM) series is made by Systematics in Westchester, PA and come with a 2 yr warranty. The MM140 is the ONLY 140 amp/ 100% Duty welder on the market (other than our own FM140). It is Spoolgun ready and TIG (non-hifreq) ready. It has a built in Range Extender- so you can weld 25 ft away from the main unit without ever moving it. Comes with a flow regulator so you can adjust the Cfm of your gas when using Argon or a CO2 mix. These welders do NOT come with rheostat heat adjust knobs- this is what cheaper grade of welders use- as rheostats get hot during use, and when a circuit/switch gets hot it flows LESS current causing irregular and inconsistent welds. The click style knobs used on the MM welders are a SELECTOR switch only- as the center wound all copper transformer is what varies the amperage being used. It also runs cooler as it disipates heat better than the cheaper aluminum transformers. There are MANY more advantages of the MM welders- yep, they cost more than the Parts store brands, but you will get what you pay for. snap

Sounds interesting. I'll check it out. Thanks. RON

[dwkohout]

I have a Snapon MM250 and it was crasy expensive and I dont know what the fuk I was thinking when I bought it. Kind of overkill for the welding I do in my garage but I can mig and tig most anything. I found out after I bought it that it doesnt tig alum.

[squidward]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll start with the 6013 as I am having the trailer frame blasted so it will be very clean. The sticker on the dial is numbered 30, 45, 60, 70, 80,90,100,115,130, 145, 160, 180 with the 70 having a circle around it. I take it 70 is the usual setting and I adjust from there? Thanks RON

Use the 6013 on some scrap to burn some shit together, but go the 6011 or another one with better penetration for welding the trailer. Like said the 6013 will give pretty looking welds really easily, but for thicker steel wont be the strongest. I far from a pro welder, but have been using 7018 alot lately....for making winch mounts and bumpers and that stuff.

[atc250r]

Here is my welder. Miller Maxstar 150 STH 5 inches wide, 9 inches high, 13 inches long Excellent TIG welder and very good at stick. Comes with 2 different plug ins so it can be used on either 110 or 220 power. Excellent choice for repair and fabrication.

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[900cfi]

amperage depends on the rod dia and thickness of material.

Use 3/32 rod up to 1/4 to 5 /16 plate. 60-70 amp would be a good starting point.

I'd use 6011 on the trailer, it penetrates deeper and is more forgivable when doing out of position welding.

I've built many a trailer on 6011.

The best rod for welding a trailer is hands down the 7018.The 6010,6011,6013 rods create a brittle weld.If these rods must be used they should be only used for the first pass and then run a 7018 rod over top for higher tensile strength and ductility.If you are using these rods for welding a trailer you are asking for problems.If you are going to use a 3/32 7018 rod on 1/4 to 5/16 plate you better be welding at more than 60 amps,more in the line of 70-80 amps with a bevelled edge.A trailer is classified as a structural piece and the 60 series of rods are not recognized for this application for safety reasons.The 7018 rod is the correct rod.Just trying to help as I know a thing or two about welding.

[alsled]

The best rod for welding a trailer is hands down the 7018.The 6010,6011,6013 rods create a brittle weld.If these rods must be used they should be only used for the first pass and then run a 7018 rod over top for higher tensile strength and ductility.If you are using these rods for welding a trailer you are asking for problems.If you are going to use a 3/32 7018 rod on 1/4 to 5/16 plate you better be welding at more than 60 amps,more in the line of 70-80 amps with a bevelled edge.A trailer is classified as a structural piece and the 60 series of rods are not recognized for this application for safety reasons.The 7018 rod is the correct rod.Just trying to help as I know a thing or two about welding.

How does 7018 work for out of position?. I know I've tried it, tell the rest of the world. Not fun for overhead welds.

6011 is fine on your backyard trailer welding that will have a few thousand pounds on it.

I've built dozens of trailers, with 6011, never a failure. Actually people that have bought trailers from manufactures have had more problems with welds, as they mig everything together. I have seen a lot of mig welds with poor penitration, weld is just sitting on the top.

I doubt any snowmobile trailer is welded together by stick with 7018.

Now if you get into the tractor trailer world, tanker, car carrier, special builds trailer, there might be some concern using 6011. Plus they would never use 6011 as the flux is a pain to remove and more blast time would be needed to prep for paint.

For what its worth, My welds passed the bend test with 6011.

Don't forget to tell everyone 7018 cannot be used on any surface with rust or pitting.

I was trained by the best, my uncle, 60 years of welding expierence from battle ships, to pressure vessles to race cars, to teaching welding at bocies.

A lot of commen sence with that many years of expierence.

7018 sure does look pretty when doing a flat weld though.

[PatrioticInnovat...]

I too am a Millwright-welder by trade. I've hung lots of overhead structural steel. We always used 5/32" 6010 DC reverse rod for this. DC reverse polarity provides the greatest heat/penetration. 7018 is higher strength and is called "low hydrogen" and as Al says, doesn't work well on dirty, overhead or vertical welding. It's very strong though. We used it on alloy steel welding such as wear strips for roller chain conveyors.

I own a very large/heavy commercial Idealarc 220V Lincoln combination welder. Stick, Mig, TIG.

[900cfi]

How does 7018 work for out of position?. I know I've tried it, tell the rest of the world. Not fun for overhead welds.

6011 is fine on your backyard trailer welding that will have a few thousand pounds on it.

I've built dozens of trailers, with 6011, never a failure. Actually people that have bought trailers from manufactures have had more problems with welds, as they mig everything together. I have seen a lot of mig welds with poor penitration, weld is just sitting on the top.

I doubt any snowmobile trailer is welded together by stick with 7018.

Now if you get into the tractor trailer world, tanker, car carrier, special builds trailer, there might be some concern using 6011. Plus they would never use 6011 as the flux is a pain to remove and more blast time would be needed to prep for paint.

For what its worth, My welds passed the bend test with 6011.

Don't forget to tell everyone 7018 cannot be used on any surface with rust or pitting.

I was trained by the best, my uncle, 60 years of welding expierence from battle ships, to pressure vessles to race cars, to teaching welding at bocies.

A lot of commen sence with that many years of expierence.

7018 sure does look pretty when doing a flat weld though.

7018 is an all position rod.I know this as I hold many pressure tickets carbon and stainless and most structural tickets.The 60 series rods are not the right rod.All trailers up in Canada are welded with 7018 or the equivelant wire with the same properties with the mig wire.If you were trained by the best you would know this and that the 7018 is the best all position welding rod and yes even for over head.Overhead is a piece of cake to weld in the overhead position as I have a mig hard wire,7018,metal core,flux core structural tickets in the overhead.Your right the 7018 isn't used for use on dirty steel but that is why us professionals use a grinding wheel to get the pitting and rust off before welding.The bend test isn't the reason the 60 series doesn't get used for the applications you use it for.The 60series rode will break over time when going from hot weather to cold weather and back again.I've seen guys get thrown off jobs for using the 60 series rods.I have built all the above things listed and none have used 6011 rods,you would get thrown off the job for using that shit rod.I've been pressure welding and structural welding for 20 years so I guess I have no common sense.Back in the old days the 60 series was used but things change bud.The 60 series gets used on carbon pressure pipe and vessels and boilers as the root pass then it is the 7018 that takes over .Use what you want but you are doing it all wrong.Sorry go ask a welding and structural engineer and see what he tells you if you know weverything as I work side by side with many of these guys.

[900cfi]

I too am a Millwright-welder by trade. I've hung lots of overhead structural steel. We always used 5/32" 6010 DC reverse rod for this. DC reverse polarity provides the greatest heat/penetration. 7018 is higher strength and is called "low hydrogen" and as Al says, doesn't work well on dirty, overhead or vertical welding. It's very strong though. We used it on alloy steel welding such as wear strips for roller chain conveyors.

I own a very large/heavy commercial Idealarc 220V Lincoln combination welder. Stick, Mig, TIG.

A 7018 doesn't work good in the uphand or overhead position?????Are you f##### kidding me.If you can't weld this rod in these positions you aren't a welder period.You guys are right use the 60 series rods for structure but let me know if you weld something near me so I can get you thrown off site or leave the site myself as you guys are not welding proper.OOH you own a welder well so do I and weld on the side as I own a welding business as well as work for a huge welding company.

[PatrioticInnovat...]

A 7018 doesn't work good in the uphand or overhead position?????Are you f##### kidding me.If you can't weld this rod in these positions you aren't a welder period.You guys are right use the 60 series rods for structure but let me know if you weld something near me so I can get you thrown off site or leave the site myself as you guys are not welding proper.OOH you own a welder well so do I and weld on the side as I own a welding business as well as work for a huge welding company.

And, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/roflmao.gif)

The structural steel I installed with 6010 rod is still in place. No doubt 7018 is stronger, but if it was better, we would have used it for that.

Take a chill pill man. 33 years old and already an expert.

I also lived in Canada for 3 years. What a bunch of fanatical over regulating socialistic bureacrats.

[alsled]

A 7018 doesn't work good in the uphand or overhead position?????Are you f##### kidding me.If you can't weld this rod in these positions you aren't a welder period.You guys are right use the 60 series rods for structure but let me know if you weld something near me so I can get you thrown off site or leave the site myself as you guys are not welding proper.OOH you own a welder well so do I and weld on the side as I own a welding business as well as work for a huge welding company.

Give it up. Your allready on the list of user names I have in front of me, title of the list is Dickheads.

So 7018 stick is a all position rod?, works like shit for me on vertical or overhead, I guess your just better then me.

99 % of the people on here are backyard welders, every farmer in the world use's 6011. Its a great all around rod for general use, were not building the f'ing Queen Mary here.

Common sence and being pratical is what were after.

Another thing, Pat Ino is one of the most respected people on the site, a lot of people go to him for info.

People express themselves in the way they post, you just proved yourself as unprofessional.

As far as me, you can consider me unprofessional, I don't really care. I have a excuse, you should get on some happy pills and come to one of my monthly meatings.

Just weld away in your own little world tthat your head is stuck in.

I started the day with a person very similar to you, so I'm not ready to put up with shit, and OOOOHHHHHHHHHH look at me I'm right your wrong bullshit type of person.
Thing that sucks is I can't take the next pill till the morning.

Ps, happy holidays, thats whats left of the pill kicking in, try it.

[atc250r]

For what its worth, here's my take:

On structural Steel: 7018 only, unless there is real shitty fit-up. If so, a quick pass or two with 5P+, but I wouldn't let anyone know about it, before covering it with 7018.

Home made trailer: Same as above, as its virtually the same thing.

That is my semi-professional view, but I know a more user-friendly rod such as 6013 could be used too, if the above things were built without quality control personnel on site ie. Out on a farm

I must add that 7018 is one of the best rods for out of position welding ie. overhead. Vert is very nice too. Up or down.

PS. I know most Americans don't have access to it, but "Air Liquide" brand 7018 is known to be the nicest running 18 series rod, just as Lincoln is known to have the best "hippie rod". A few Yanks came up here to work with us on a huge shutdown this year and fell in love with the Air Liquide 9018-B3 we were burning. Liked it and the regular H-1R a lot more than Lincoln's Excalibur. It's made in Canada.

This post has been edited by atc250r: Dec 18 2009, 04:11 PM

[900cfi]

For what its worth, here's my take:

On structural Steel: 7018 only, unless there is real shitty fit-up. If so, a quick pass or two with 5P+, but I wouldn't let anyone know about it, before covering it with 7018.

Home made trailer: Same as above, as its virtually the same thing.

That is my semi-professional view, but I know a more user-friendly rod such as 6013 could be used too, if the above things were built without quality control personnel on site ie. Out on a farm

I must add that 7018 is one of the best rods for out of position welding ie. overhead. Vert is very nice too. Up or down.

PS. I know most Americans don't have access to it, but "Air Liquide" brand 7018 is known to be the nicest running 18 series rod, just as Lincoln is known to have the best "hippie rod". A few Yanks came up here to work with us on a huge shutdown this year and fell in love with the Air Liquide 9018-B3 we were burning. Liked it and the regular H-1R a lot more than Lincoln's Excalibur. It's made in Canada.

Thankyou a guy who knows what he is talking about.You must be a welder.

[900cfi]

Give it up. Your allready on the list of user names I have in front of me, title of the list is Dickheads.

So 7018 stick is a all position rod?, works like shit for me on vertical or overhead, I guess your just better then me.

99 % of the people on here are backyard welders, every farmer in the world use's 6011. Its a great all around rod for general use, were not building the f'ing Queen Mary here.

Common sence and being pratical is what were after.

Another thing, Pat Ino is one of the most respected people on the site, a lot of people go to him for info.

People express themselves in the way they post, you just proved yourself as unprofessional.

As far as me, you can consider me unprofessional, I don't really care. I have a excuse, you should get on some happy pills and come to one of my monthly meatings.

Just weld away in your own little world tthat your head is stuck in.

I started the day with a person very similar to you, so I'm not ready to put up with shit, and OOOOHHHHHHHHHH look at me I'm right your wrong bullshit type of person.
Thing that sucks is I can't take the next pill till the morning.

Ps, happy holidays, thats whats left of the pill kicking in, try it.

I was giving the proper rod and way to weld something as more than I can say for you guys.If you are going to weld something weld it right.Oh I am a way better welder than you and Pat Ino by far.I'd rather be a dickhead giving out the correct information than a dickhead who doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.Go back to your redneck welding job and keep telling yourselves you know what your doing.Oh and I am a professional welder.Thanks

[900cfi]

And, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/roflmao.gif)

The structural steel I installed with 6010 rod is still in place. No doubt 7018 is stronger, but if it was better, we would have used it for that.

Take a chill pill man. 33 years old and already an expert.

I also lived in Canada for 3 years. What a bunch of fanatical over regulating socialistic bureacrats.

Well go check the ASME codes for structural welding of the USA and the CWB structural welding codes of Canada if you know so much.I'm 36 now and have been welding pressure and structural for 18 years everyday which is alot longer than you.You aren't even a welder because all welders I know can weld 7018 beautifully in all positions.Don't get to name calling because the US has as many problems and bullshit as we do.Someone asked a question and I gave him the correct information so what is the problem?

[IAPro-X]

I wonder if they are thinking of 7024? I do believe that stuff is only for flat welding. I've personally used good 7018 in the vert. position with no issues. Maybe the issues with 7018 people are having is in the storage? I know it's completely worthless if stored wrong... More so it seems than other rods.

[900cfi]

I wonder if they are thinking of 7024? I do believe that stuff is only for flat welding. I've personally used good 7018 in the vert. position with no issues. Maybe the issues with 7018 people are having is in the storage? I know it's completely worthless if stored wrong... More so it seems than other rods.

Yes, possibly as you are right with the 7024(jet rod) which is used only for flat.Yes 7018 should be stored in a dry place and before use put in a rod oved and brought up to temperature before use and if out longer than 4 hrs has to be put back in the oven again until the rod is back up to temperature.

[PatrioticInnovat...]

Yes, possibly as you are right with the 7024(jet rod) which is used only for flat.Yes 7018 should be stored in a dry place and before use put in a rod oved and brought up to temperature before use and if out longer than 4 hrs has to be put back in the oven again until the rod is back up to temperature.

Exactly. You need a special high temp oven for this. That's a real useful everyday welding rod.
6010 is an all round very good welding rod with few of those special handling problems.

I've been a skilled trades apprentice, Journeyman Millwright, Millwright-welder, Millwright supervisor, and a Plant Engineering supervisor at one of the big three auto manufacturers for more years than you've been alive. I've worked right alongside of much more experienced welders than you are. And, they've worked for me. It was my job to design and have installed lots of heavy duty overhead bridges, conveyors, platforms, etc. I wrote the specifications for these projects. Please don't try to impress me with your 36 years of age.

Granted 7018 is an all position rod, but not very practical for everyday all round use in a variety of real world conditions. It requires constant attention to keep it dry, or the low hydrogen benefits are lost. Plus, it has to be cleared of excess flux so it can be restruck after each pass. PITA.

Do a little research on the internet and you will see the real picture. 6010 is described as a "bulldozer";It sees a forest and it cuts a dirt road. 7018 sees a dirt road and makes a paved highway. 7018 is only for clean metal. Not reality in most cases.

[alsled]

Exactly. You need a special high temp oven for this. That's a real useful everyday welding rod.
6010 is an all round very good welding rod with few of those special handling problems.

I've been a skilled trades apprentice, Journeyman Millwright, Millwright-welder, Millwright supervisor, and a Plant Engineering supervisor at one of the big three auto manufacturers for more years than you've been alive. I've worked right alongside of much more experienced welders than you are. And, they've worked for me. It was my job to design and have installed lots of heavy duty overhead bridges, conveyors, platforms, etc. I wrote the specifications for these projects. Please don't try to impress me with your 36 years of age.

Granted 7018 is an all position rod, but not very practical for everyday all round use in a variety of real world conditions. It requires constant attention to keep it dry, or the low hydrogen benefits are lost. Plus, it has to be cleared of excess flux so it can be restruck after each pass. PITA.

Do a little research on the internet and you will see the real picture. 6010 is described as a "bulldozer";It sees a forest and it cuts a dirt road. 7018 sees a dirt road and makes a paved highway. 7018 is only for clean metal. Not reality in most cases.

This is getting good, I'm with you on this.

Like I said before the average guy on here is a backyard welder, 6011 is fine, were not building bridges, most of the material is less then 3/16 on a snowmobile trailer.

I have problems welding with 7018 overhead, then again my rods are in my closet in the bedroom, driest place I can store them.

We all don't have the access to sandblasters and building out of new steel.

hell I just got back with my trailler i welded together 20 years ago with 6011. I built it out of whatever I could find, not so clean metal.

[atc250r]

Well I see we'll continue to disagree so I guess I don't need to add anything else. I'll keep welding anything of importance (mild steel) with 7018 and I'll keep the 6010 reserved for pipe. Have a great day gentlemen.