Can anyone confirm that this is the oil adj. screw 2013 Indy 600 sp. At the tip of the pencil.
440WTRider
There has been a lot of talk in other polaris forums that the factory setting is around 100-1 ratio to get it to pass EPA standards. The perfect ratio (in others opinion is 47-1 ratio) even my dealer is willing to turn it up to increase oil injection. Here's just one I copied. and it's a quote.
Yes you are correct adding oil to the fuel increases lubrication for the total engine if it was an older Polaris CFI-4 engine or a Cat engine that injects fuel into the crank case.
**Adding oil to fuel does not get into the crankshaft if it is a Polaris CFI 2+2 or CFI 2 engine that only injects fuel into the transfer boost port when above BDC... The oil added to the fuel with the new CFI engines does not get pushed into the crankshaft.
**This additional oil in the fuel only increases lubrication to pistons/rings which increases reliability of only the piston/rings, increases sealing & HP.
This extra oil also reduces piston scoring like Polaris had on their first 600 CFI 2 Shifts, per a sharp Polaris engineer friend.
**Also SLP & several top performance shops on SnoWest recommend to add 1 oz of oil to a gallon of fuel to increase reliability & HP!!!
**The performance shops prefer a 32:1 fuel oil ratio to get max HP & reliability!!!
**Both SLP & the Wall Brother's racing recommend to use Red Line 2 Stroke Full Synthetic Racing oil...
Both Red Line & Wall Brothers say that this oil can increase HP by 3%!!!
On my EXCELLENT 2012 600 CFI 2+2 Pro R Switchback when turning in the oil injection pump's adjustment screw increased the amount of oil injected from idle to max RPM. This extra oil is injected into the Crankshaft bearings and is pushed through the total engine with air up into the combustion chamber. This extra oil helps the total engine, not just the piston/rings when oil is added to thefuel tank on Polaris CFI 2 engines.
**I still add 1 oz of oil to a gallon of BP 91 octane non ethanol fuel to increase reliability & HP!!!
Yes you are correct adding oil to the fuel increases lubrication for the total engine if it was an older Polaris CFI-4 engine or a Cat engine that injects fuel into the crank case.
**Adding oil to fuel does not get into the crankshaft if it is a Polaris CFI 2+2 or CFI 2 engine that only injects fuel into the transfer boost port when above BDC... The oil added to the fuel with the new CFI engines does not get pushed into the crankshaft.
**This additional oil in the fuel only increases lubrication to pistons/rings which increases reliability of only the piston/rings, increases sealing & HP.
This extra oil also reduces piston scoring like Polaris had on their first 600 CFI 2 Shifts, per a sharp Polaris engineer friend.
**Also SLP & several top performance shops on SnoWest recommend to add 1 oz of oil to a gallon of fuel to increase reliability & HP!!!
**The performance shops prefer a 32:1 fuel oil ratio to get max HP & reliability!!!
**Both SLP & the Wall Brother's racing recommend to use Red Line 2 Stroke Full Synthetic Racing oil...
Both Red Line & Wall Brothers say that this oil can increase HP by 3%!!!
On my EXCELLENT 2012 600 CFI 2+2 Pro R Switchback when turning in the oil injection pump's adjustment screw increased the amount of oil injected from idle to max RPM. This extra oil is injected into the Crankshaft bearings and is pushed through the total engine with air up into the combustion chamber. This extra oil helps the total engine, not just the piston/rings when oil is added to thefuel tank on Polaris CFI 2 engines.
**I still add 1 oz of oil to a gallon of BP 91 octane non ethanol fuel to increase reliability & HP!!!
Hmmm. I guess I can understand that increasing the injection oil gets more oil to the crank. But increase HP? I find that part a little difficult to understand. Oil lubricates, sure, but its burning fuel that produces HP. I would have thought that effect on HP would be at best neutral - i just can't understand how it would increase.
Also, the bit about increasing the injection oil and 1 oz per gallon too doesn't seem to make sense. Why not just set the oil injection pump to give you the ratio you want since it says that lubricates the entire engine?
PS: Yes, there has been a lot of talk in other forums, but haven't they mostly been seeing problems with the 800? That's why there are people out there now selling a "reliability kit" for that. You don't see so much of this talk about the 600.
Also, the bit about increasing the injection oil and 1 oz per gallon too doesn't seem to make sense. Why not just set the oil injection pump to give you the ratio you want since it says that lubricates the entire engine?
PS: Yes, there has been a lot of talk in other forums, but haven't they mostly been seeing problems with the 800? That's why there are people out there now selling a "reliability kit" for that. You don't see so much of this talk about the 600.
This line is very important and has been proven true years ago .
**This additional oil in the fuel only increases lubrication to pistons/rings which increases reliability of only the piston/rings, increases sealing & HP.
This extra oil also reduces piston scoring like Polaris had on their first 600 CFI 2 Shifts, per a sharp Polaris engineer friend.
A well known oil company did testing to prove this time and time again . I have the reading material but it is a long read for a forum thread . You could search for "Maxima oil test" and find the write I believe . If not , I could post it here . I would like to know how much 1 turn increases the oil ratio .
P.S. Also , hello as I am new to this site but an old sledder since being a child
.
**This additional oil in the fuel only increases lubrication to pistons/rings which increases reliability of only the piston/rings, increases sealing & HP.
This extra oil also reduces piston scoring like Polaris had on their first 600 CFI 2 Shifts, per a sharp Polaris engineer friend.
A well known oil company did testing to prove this time and time again . I have the reading material but it is a long read for a forum thread . You could search for "Maxima oil test" and find the write I believe . If not , I could post it here . I would like to know how much 1 turn increases the oil ratio .
P.S. Also , hello as I am new to this site but an old sledder since being a child
.
More oil would make it run rich. I though the more you lean out the motor the more hp
Is the sled running lean from the factory settings ?
Sent from Snowmobile.com Free App
Is the sled running lean from the factory settings ?
Sent from Snowmobile.com Free App
Here is one section of the write up I mentioned . This was done on a 2 stroke pre-mix MX bike engine . This write up is very long and there are many other factors to consider . However , this section shows the power gains for the amount of oil needed for max hp on this motor . Granted with todays improved engine we may not see this much of a need for more oil for the HP gain . This is not my work .
"I have run Dyno tests on this subject, as a school project in Tech School. We used a Dynojet dynamometer, and used a fresh, broken in top-end for each test. We used specially calibrated jets to ensure the fuel flow was identical with each different ratio, and warmed the engine at 3000 rpm for 3 minutes before each run. Our tests were performed in the rpm range of 2500 to 9000 rpm, with the power peak of our test bike (an '86 YZ 250) occuring at 8750 rpm. We tested at 76 degrees F, at 65% relative humidity. We started at 10:1, and went to 100:1. Our results showed that a two-stroke engine makes its best power at 18:1. Any more oil than that, and the engine ran poorly, because we didn't have any jets rich enough to compensate for that much oil in the fuel. The power loss from 18:1 to 32:1 was approximately 2 percent. The loss from 18:1 to 50:1 was nearly 9 percent. On a modern 250, that can be as much as 4 horsepower. The loss from 18:1 to 100:1 was nearly 18 percent. The reason for the difference in output is simple. More oil provides a better seal between the ring and the cylinder wall. "
"I have run Dyno tests on this subject, as a school project in Tech School. We used a Dynojet dynamometer, and used a fresh, broken in top-end for each test. We used specially calibrated jets to ensure the fuel flow was identical with each different ratio, and warmed the engine at 3000 rpm for 3 minutes before each run. Our tests were performed in the rpm range of 2500 to 9000 rpm, with the power peak of our test bike (an '86 YZ 250) occuring at 8750 rpm. We tested at 76 degrees F, at 65% relative humidity. We started at 10:1, and went to 100:1. Our results showed that a two-stroke engine makes its best power at 18:1. Any more oil than that, and the engine ran poorly, because we didn't have any jets rich enough to compensate for that much oil in the fuel. The power loss from 18:1 to 32:1 was approximately 2 percent. The loss from 18:1 to 50:1 was nearly 9 percent. On a modern 250, that can be as much as 4 horsepower. The loss from 18:1 to 100:1 was nearly 18 percent. The reason for the difference in output is simple. More oil provides a better seal between the ring and the cylinder wall. "
I haven't heard of any problems with the 600 yet but I guess if they are not getting enough oil the crank will probably fail sooner then it should.
Good info and you are right about the 800's It's only been two years since the Indy came out and I have heard nothing but good about this sled. You know when you invest a lot of $$ into something you do research and take precautions, yea I know (get a warranty) but if the sled is in the shop YOUR NOT RIDIN. Is there anyone out there who has done a top end on an Indy yet? Or has gone into the engine and inspect it? Just curious
The 600 engine in the 13 Indy is identical to the Rush/Switchback/RMK 600's so I've been looking around on the Rush/Switchback area quite a bit.
Thanks rich03sks700 Hope you didn't mind me using your quote it was in my computer from a long while back. I've been reading and rereading it and it sounds to be true, I just need some other inputs on this issue and I got it Thanks again:thumbsup:
32:1, I would hate to be following that sled for any distance.
50:1 would be closer to my thinking.
50:1 would be closer to my thinking.
the other thing about adding oil to your fuel in any c.f.i. sled. its a very good idea anyway. it helps lube the fuel pump,regulator,injectors, etc. fuel is a solvent no lubrication at all. put 1oz. per gallon of fuel.
vent the pro-ride oil tank.
there is a issue with the cap vent ball.
even turning the oil pump up has shown fuel to oil ratios to still be all over the place.
during testing where i put a seperate vent in the tank, the oil usage stayed consistant.
i have designed a vent kit for this.
turn your oil pump up so it is using at least 50/1.
both 600/800.
the comments about doo and there oil usage. doo does not oil there outer crank bearings at all. they use iso flex grease in these bearings. they have a ctr. sealed crank shaft. the water pump shaft is in a constant oil bath. no loss oil bath. so you can't compare that to the polaris motor.
so think about that a moment. poo's 800 uses less oil then doo's 8. does that sound good to you?
vent the pro-ride oil tank.
there is a issue with the cap vent ball.
even turning the oil pump up has shown fuel to oil ratios to still be all over the place.
during testing where i put a seperate vent in the tank, the oil usage stayed consistant.
i have designed a vent kit for this.
turn your oil pump up so it is using at least 50/1.
both 600/800.
the comments about doo and there oil usage. doo does not oil there outer crank bearings at all. they use iso flex grease in these bearings. they have a ctr. sealed crank shaft. the water pump shaft is in a constant oil bath. no loss oil bath. so you can't compare that to the polaris motor.
so think about that a moment. poo's 800 uses less oil then doo's 8. does that sound good to you?
Im glad I read this thread I will definetely be turning my pump up and maybe adding oil in my gas. This thread has me a little more concerned about the Indy i bought last year. Before the indy I swore I would never go back to a two stroke machine. The Yamaha 4 strokes I had were as reliable as a hammer and engine trouble virtually non-existent.
I liked the cost, WEIGHT, and performance of the indy. My thoughts were that I should give the new generation EFI two strokes a try thinking they were bound to be much more reliable and less troublesome than previous two strokes. Its a little worrying to me that there is such a wide perception of oiling practices that is so critical to these engines.
Is it fair to say these new EFI engines are more reliable than the older carb engines?
I liked the cost, WEIGHT, and performance of the indy. My thoughts were that I should give the new generation EFI two strokes a try thinking they were bound to be much more reliable and less troublesome than previous two strokes. Its a little worrying to me that there is such a wide perception of oiling practices that is so critical to these engines.
Is it fair to say these new EFI engines are more reliable than the older carb engines?
Don't be concerned.
First thing to do is accurately track fuel and oil usage then calculate the
fuel: oil ratio.
It will vary somewhat with conditions and riding habits.
If it falls somewhere in the 50-60:1 you're good to go.
Getting up in the 75-85:1 area and I would be cranking the pump up and recalculating.
I haven't been adding oil to the fuel yet but may do so in the future.
I love the stone cold reliability of the Indy Sp so far but I also plan on
putting a ton of miles on it in the next few years.
The goal is to make it last also.:thumbsup:
To answer you last question, IMO with a little common sense these EFI's
can be just as reliable as the older carbed versions.
Proper warm up practices, good pre and post season maintenance,
using good fuel and oil all contribute to a long lasting engine.
First thing to do is accurately track fuel and oil usage then calculate the
fuel: oil ratio.
It will vary somewhat with conditions and riding habits.
If it falls somewhere in the 50-60:1 you're good to go.
Getting up in the 75-85:1 area and I would be cranking the pump up and recalculating.
I haven't been adding oil to the fuel yet but may do so in the future.
I love the stone cold reliability of the Indy Sp so far but I also plan on
putting a ton of miles on it in the next few years.
The goal is to make it last also.:thumbsup:
To answer you last question, IMO with a little common sense these EFI's
can be just as reliable as the older carbed versions.
Proper warm up practices, good pre and post season maintenance,
using good fuel and oil all contribute to a long lasting engine.
the line on it is just for pics iam goin to use 2 feet of new line and re route it away from the clutches.
I made it so the fitting screwed in tight in the plastic then used gasket maker that was it simple.
too much paint
I broke the jam nut loose, but the oil screw spun with it....too much yellow paint on the threads. The nut and screw turned together and now I do not know what I got. During break in, with a tank of pre-mix, I will check my fuel/oil ratio. Are there alignment marks? Where are they? I would like to check if I got the screw back where it started before I run it.....Thoughts
I broke the jam nut loose, but the oil screw spun with it....too much yellow paint on the threads. The nut and screw turned together and now I do not know what I got. During break in, with a tank of pre-mix, I will check my fuel/oil ratio. Are there alignment marks? Where are they? I would like to check if I got the screw back where it started before I run it.....Thoughts
I see no marks where that adj screw is, the way it looks to me is that it adjusts the linkage going to the oil pump arm.Can someone else confirm this?
Attachments
My 600 RMK was at 80:1 stock. I measured after I burned through my first tank of gas and filled up the oil reservoir up full. I then adjusted my pump and turned the screw in 5 turns. It's now running at 40:1.
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
