Looking At Upgrading Turbos, Who's Should I Go With? - Page 16 - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 03-28-2013, 03:43 AM   #151 (permalink)
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Well Mike&Steve at full throttle,im sure glad you guys get on here and keep this most informative thread of the year going,doesnt seem like any of the other vendor's are that interested in the 7837 people that have looked at this thread.Hopefuly half of them call you just because of the great explanations you give us on our questions,and the quick manner you answer them in.Apperantly Evolution powersports has all the business they need.They cherped in on how many they sold and then bowed out,thats a shame because they sounded like they have a good setup with hours of real time testing.Keep up the good work Full Throttle im saving my pennies.
I was testing, tuning, data logging all last week with Jim from Evo in Alpine,Wy. They have focused extensively and all most exclusively on the mountain rider and high elevation tuning. We were specifically doing testing on the belt issues and logging for a 320 tune with bigger injectors. Ran like stock. Was also logging the WTA cooler. All in all the testing was very good. Jim was just driving home today from salt lake so he's been gone for 2.5 weeks. It's not all glamour as anyone that tunes knows. Long days and being away from the family takes its tole. No one has more time with on snow testing. I know, we sold, over half of the mountain kits he did.

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Old 03-28-2013, 08:21 AM   #152 (permalink)
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Well Mike&Steve at full throttle,im sure glad you guys get on here and keep this most informative thread of the year going,doesnt seem like any of the other vendor's are that interested in the 7837 people that have looked at this thread.Hopefuly half of them call you just because of the great explanations you give us on our questions,and the quick manner you answer them in.Apperantly Evolution powersports has all the business they need.They cherped in on how many they sold and then bowed out,thats a shame because they sounded like they have a good setup with hours of real time testing.Keep up the good work Full Throttle im saving my pennies.
Mike has done a good job of explaining basic turbo theory, and there is no need for other vendors to come on here and repeat, or dispute what he is saying. I should hope that results would count at least as much as internet talk. As far as the original question "who's should I go with?" I will only discuss the turbos that we sell. Out of those, here are my recommendations.

Trail - stock turbo. This turbo is very efficient at pump gas boost levels and can make over 300hp turned up. Larger turbos can make slightly more pump gas power, because of the cooler intake temps, but the gains are not that significant. An exception is high elevation, where the stock turbo can run out of steam, even at pump gas levels, and a larger/more efficient compressor can make a big difference.

300-400hp - Modstock turbo. This turbo looks completely stock on the outside, and fits exactly as stock. All stock chassis supports still fit and all of your aftermarket intake exhaust from your stock turbo will fit. Stock intercooler is also not restrictive to this turbo. If you have a good clutch setup for your stock turbo, that will even work. Our race sleds are running the exact same clutching as stock race sleds, just turning 400 more rpm. As with anything that makes more power than stock - fuel system and engine upgrades are required.

400-500hp - Magic turbo. Even though we are a Precision dealer, this is still my favorite turbo for this power range. Similar in performance to the much discussed Precision 5130, but more compact, and setup for v-band/external wastegate.

500-600hp - Precision 5558. This is my favorite race turbo. Though not quite capable of all out outlaw power, it can make more power than most tuners would ever want to deal with.

550-700+?? - Precision 6262. This is the turbo used on the "Green Hornet" outlaw sled. Probably a bit more than we need, as we have never turned it up past 605hp on the dyno and never raced at more than 550hp.

Remember when stepping up to a larger turbo, don't go any bigger than you need. As turbo size (and power) goes up, so does tuning difficulty. If your stock turbo sled is getting beat bad by other stock turbo sleds, you are probably not ready to step up in turbo size. Any chassis or clutch issues will just be magnified with more power.

When you start getting into the 450-500hp range, bigger cams and port work can show significant gains.

Here is a pic I took a few years ago during some turbo testing. This is not even close to the total turbo combinations we have tested - just what we happened to have around that day. I hope this helps to illustrate our commitment to R&D on this sled.
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File Type: jpg turbos! 001.jpg (269.8 KB, 60 views)
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Stk Z1 et 1/4 mile 8.25 156mph Matt Ernst
Stk 1100 1/4 mile 8.19 157mph
Modstock 1/4 mile 8.00 160mph Craig Campton
Stk 1100 1000' 137mph Jesse Wilson
Stk 1100 660' 5.27 124.9mph
Stk 1100 500' 4.41 110mph Jason Price
Mod Z1 660' 4.72 145mph, Jim Stanley
Mod Z1 500' 3.81 139mph
Lakeracer/KOT grass world record 3.99 Aaron Casler
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:28 AM   #153 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by catpride22 View Post
Well Mike&Steve at full throttle,im sure glad you guys get on here and keep this most informative thread of the year going,doesnt seem like any of the other vendor's are that interested in the 7837 people that have looked at this thread.Hopefuly half of them call you just because of the great explanations you give us on our questions,and the quick manner you answer them in.Apperantly Evolution powersports has all the business they need.They cherped in on how many they sold and then bowed out,thats a shame because they sounded like they have a good setup with hours of real time testing.Keep up the good work Full Throttle im saving my pennies.
Though I am not on anyones payroll, I do speak with experience with the ModStock as my sled was the testing benchmark this season. I spoke on behalf of Hypersports and D&D with hopes they would not have to babysit another thread and would correct me if I miss spoke about any information. Glenn is on this forum daily and answers any customer questions before most people are hitting snooze. I see then Glenn has made a post and I assure you this thread is monitored by many companies.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:07 AM   #154 (permalink)
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I don't look at this post as anyone having to babysit. I have read every thread, and I am here to learn what I can. This is sort of like a free mini school for me. If anyone over advertises it turns me off any how. Everyone has done a great job so far.

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Old 03-28-2013, 09:10 AM   #155 (permalink)
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Sorry Glenn wasnt trying to insult anyone,i am very ignorant to the new turbo upgrades and just trying to gather as much info as possible so i can make the best choice for my needs.I know you accept calls all day but hate to bother you or any other vendor with countless retarded questions that i may have.I have reached out to several members on here and have recieved mixed reviews on the the turbo upgrades.I think most of us looking at this thread are trail riders/weekend grudge racers,i know i would like a solid 350hp on 93 pump gas that i can ride all day every day,but keep the reliability of the stock setup,and keep the price of the build at a reasonable cost.I think lots of people would sign up for the turbo upgrade if we could use stock pistons and rods,its been hard for me to add in $2000 extra for rods/pistons and labor.I know the threshold of stock rods is somewhere in that 300/350 hp range but for a real trail sled with trail studs do we realy need the upgrade when seeing 350hp.Once again i did not mean to offend any vendors,just want to know what company is going to be my best money spent.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #156 (permalink)
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X3 keep up the good work Steve and Mike
X4 very informative info. Also great info from Turbine Tech, they have great products.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:55 AM   #157 (permalink)
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Besides the equipment operation and support its backed by ..part of a decision on upgrading partialy also depends on price and support eqipment requiered . Although i have already made my move on my upgrade of choice i sure others would like to know how much it cost at each level(engine support not chassis or drive train) and at what point are upgraded cams..valves and head work requiered? And prices

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Old 03-28-2013, 02:17 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hallnracing View Post
Mike has done a good job of explaining basic turbo theory, and there is no need for other vendors to come on here and repeat, or dispute what he is saying. I should hope that results would count at least as much as internet talk. As far as the original question "who's should I go with?" I will only discuss the turbos that we sell. Out of those, here are my recommendations.

Trail - stock turbo. This turbo is very efficient at pump gas boost levels and can make over 300hp turned up. Larger turbos can make slightly more pump gas power, because of the cooler intake temps, but the gains are not that significant. An exception is high elevation, where the stock turbo can run out of steam, even at pump gas levels, and a larger/more efficient compressor can make a big difference.

300-400hp - Modstock turbo. This turbo looks completely stock on the outside, and fits exactly as stock. All stock chassis supports still fit and all of your aftermarket intake exhaust from your stock turbo will fit. Stock intercooler is also not restrictive to this turbo. If you have a good clutch setup for your stock turbo, that will even work. Our race sleds are running the exact same clutching as stock race sleds, just turning 400 more rpm. As with anything that makes more power than stock - fuel system and engine upgrades are required.

400-500hp - Magic turbo. Even though we are a Precision dealer, this is still my favorite turbo for this power range. Similar in performance to the much discussed Precision 5130, but more compact, and setup for v-band/external wastegate.

500-600hp - Precision 5558. This is my favorite race turbo. Though not quite capable of all out outlaw power, it can make more power than most tuners would ever want to deal with.

550-700+?? - Precision 6262. This is the turbo used on the "Green Hornet" outlaw sled. Probably a bit more than we need, as we have never turned it up past 605hp on the dyno and never raced at more than 550hp.

Remember when stepping up to a larger turbo, don't go any bigger than you need. As turbo size (and power) goes up, so does tuning difficulty. If your stock turbo sled is getting beat bad by other stock turbo sleds, you are probably not ready to step up in turbo size. Any chassis or clutch issues will just be magnified with more power.

When you start getting into the 450-500hp range, bigger cams and port work can show significant gains.

Here is a pic I took a few years ago during some turbo testing. This is not even close to the total turbo combinations we have tested - just what we happened to have around that day. I hope this helps to illustrate our commitment to R&D on this sled.
Great info Glenn thanks for all your help on this site.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:07 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Besides the equipment operation and support its backed by ..part of a decision on upgrading partialy also depends on price and support eqipment requiered . Although i have already made my move on my upgrade of choice i sure others would like to know how much it cost at each level(engine support not chassis or drive train) and at what point are upgraded cams..valves and head work requiered? And prices
Stock turbo: stock injectors, stock motor, head studs, surge tank, hijacker and/or flash
Any bigger than stock turbo or nitrous should upgrade rods and pistons. This will cost up to $1700 for the parts, and 18 to 20 hrs labor. Wet nitrous system delivers own fuel, but bigger turbo will need bigger injectors.
Modstock turbo: Stock injector mod, $50 ea ($200). Flash to work with hijacker is $289 (free upgrade if you already have D&D race flash). Hijacker, if you don't already have one is $649.
Magic turbo and bigger: 1000c replacement injectors with intake manifold mod for fit (~$500), oil feed and drain lines, Bigger intercooler/charge tubes, custom exhaust, external wastegate, exhaust manifold mod, headwork and cams are beneficial at these power levels, but not required. Figure you could have up to $15,000+ into one of these projects, if you are starting from scratch and paying to have the work done. About $3000 less, if you are leaving the head/cams stock.
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World's fastest Cats use D&D parts
Big turbo Z1 1000ft 153 Mike Martin
Stk Z1 et 1/4 mile 8.25 156mph Matt Ernst
Stk 1100 1/4 mile 8.19 157mph
Modstock 1/4 mile 8.00 160mph Craig Campton
Stk 1100 1000' 137mph Jesse Wilson
Stk 1100 660' 5.27 124.9mph
Stk 1100 500' 4.41 110mph Jason Price
Mod Z1 660' 4.72 145mph, Jim Stanley
Mod Z1 500' 3.81 139mph
Lakeracer/KOT grass world record 3.99 Aaron Casler
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Since the talk is pointed in the direction of a "hot" trail sled I'd like to find out about the gains that are out there for a trail port as far as head work goes. I already realize a race port/cams are just for that... Racing
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