HCS Snowmobile Forums

HCS Snowmobile Forums (http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/)
-   Turbo 4 Stroke (http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/534-turbo-4-stroke/)
-   -   Got the full osp kit still blew a belt (http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/534-turbo-4-stroke/1035465-got-full-osp-kit-still-blew-belt.html)

gsi11j 02-14-2014 01:13 PM

OSP Alignment tool
 
The tool is a really nice piece!! however you do need to achieve c t c to utilize the stand off towers to verify alignment. If the stationary clutch sheave was a vertical surface then it would not matter if you could not achieve c t c, but being that the stationary sheave is angled that changes everything, if you grind out the tool forward so it sets down on the clutch shaft, you would now need to move the stand off towers the same dimension foward, as these are radailly centered from the orginal cut out.

Example, if you measure a point from the center of the clutch shaft 3.75" out on the stationary sheave and put mark. Then measure 4.00" from the same center and put a mark on the clutch sheave, the dimension to a vertical plane from these to points will be different. Same as grinding the tool out, you now have unequal measuring points from front to back.

Secondly from what I have seen if you can't achieve the c t c, the TLC needs to be removed and the back of it needs to be machined out where the motor boss meets it to give it more room to move to achieve c t c. The only issue I can see doing any of this is, in reallity you are moving the TLC the motor is really not moving that much. Problem being, after the TLC is adjusted to get c t c / alignment, you don't know if the jackshaft is still perpendicular to the chaincase bearing any more. or maybe it never was...at the very least perfect clutch alignment will benefit over the jackshaft being .001-.002" out of perpendicularity.

catchmeifucan 02-14-2014 02:09 PM

Ok here goes..
OSP make an eccentric piece for the secondary side of the tool. That way, everyone would be able to use the tool. It may add to price, or offer it as an option. Some of us cannot get the ctc right, so the tool is useless. If a piece was offered for the jackshaft to give us the ability to use the rest of the tool, then it would be perfect. With the help of some members on here, I was convinced to forget trying to get my ctc correct, instead try to get ver and hor as close as perfect as possible and use longer, cheaper belts.

ZRrrr 02-14-2014 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsi11j (Post 10966137)
The tool is a really nice piece!! however you do need to achieve c t c to utilize the stand off towers to verify alignment. If the stationary clutch sheave was a vertical surface then it would not matter if you could not achieve c t c, but being that the stationary sheave is angled that changes everything, if you grind out the tool forward so it sets down on the clutch shaft, you would now need to move the stand off towers the same dimension foward, as these are radailly centered from the orginal cut out.

Example, if you measure a point from the center of the clutch shaft 3.75" out on the stationary sheave and put mark. Then measure 4.00" from the same center and put a mark on the clutch sheave, the dimension to a vertical plane from these to points will be different. Same as grinding the tool out, you now have unequal measuring points from front to back.

Secondly from what I have seen if you can't achieve the c t c, the TLC needs to be removed and the back of it needs to be machined out where the motor boss meets it to give it more room to move to achieve c t c. The only issue I can see doing any of this is, in reallity you are moving the TLC the motor is really not moving that much. Problem being, after the TLC is adjusted to get c t c / alignment, you don't know if the jackshaft is still perpendicular to the chaincase bearing any more. or maybe it never was...at the very least perfect clutch alignment will benefit over the jackshaft being .001-.002" out of perpendicularity.



I've been wondering about this myself. Does the long C to C some of us have equate to a jackshaft out of alignment, or wold setting he C to C properly then mean the jackshaft is out of alignment? Some of us experience a vibration under load in deep snow. Pretty darn sure it's in the chanicase and maybe it's teh shaft and gears out of alignment.

Would like to know if there is a correlation between the vibration and long C to C's?

rehm70 02-14-2014 03:06 PM

could be. only way to know is have the chaincase cover off while doing alignment. compare top/bottom gear phase

Sent from Snowmobile.com App

catchmeifucan 02-14-2014 05:01 PM

The jackshaft has to be moving with each pulse of the motor since they are directly connected. This new technology, the tcl and magic bearings, IMO are the root cause of all evil that some of us are experiencing. If someone has their chain case apart, just put mine back together yesterday or I'd do it, put a dial indicator on the mag side of the jackshaft and start engine and rev it. See if dial indicator moves. This is no comparison to a motor moving around on bumps, but should give some indication. The chaincase is the fixed link in the tcl/magic bearing/motor parallelogram. We have a 13 and a 15 wide gear, but the gears are aligned on the outer face. There is no room for movement there like there would be if the 13 wide was centered on the 15. If there is any movement, the chain would tension/slacken with no real give on the gears. Maybe that is why some shafts are being worn, snapped, deformed, bending. Reverse is being compromised also because of this. Now this is only on some sleds. WHY??? Are the bad ones, the ones with the screwed up ctc?

jet 02-14-2014 07:05 PM

cat made 3 critical error's
1) they should have kept dd drive
2) they should have used higher quality parts everywhere
3) they had no buisness using the front heat exchanger as a motor mount

smittyseng 02-14-2014 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsi11j (Post 10966137)
The tool is a really nice piece!! however you do need to achieve c t c to utilize the stand off towers to verify alignment. If the stationary clutch sheave was a vertical surface then it would not matter if you could not achieve c t c, but being that the stationary sheave is angled that changes everything, if you grind out the tool forward so it sets down on the clutch shaft, you would now need to move the stand off towers the same dimension foward, as these are radailly centered from the orginal cut out.

Example, if you measure a point from the center of the clutch shaft 3.75" out on the stationary sheave and put mark. Then measure 4.00" from the same center and put a mark on the clutch sheave, the dimension to a vertical plane from these to points will be different. Same as grinding the tool out, you now have unequal measuring points from front to back.

Secondly from what I have seen if you can't achieve the c t c, the TLC needs to be removed and the back of it needs to be machined out where the motor boss meets it to give it more room to move to achieve c t c. The only issue I can see doing any of this is, in reallity you are moving the TLC the motor is really not moving that much. Problem being, after the TLC is adjusted to get c t c / alignment, you don't know if the jackshaft is still perpendicular to the chaincase bearing any more. or maybe it never was...at the very least perfect clutch alignment will benefit over the jackshaft being .001-.002" out of perpendicularity.

You brought up the point I was going to make, although you can open up the center of the tool, yes, the measuring points will be different/uneven for the exact reasons you state. The tool could still be used however by simply measuring off back of sheave to face of plate with calipers at od of clutch at 9. 12 and 3 oclock as that point will be parallel as long as you don't flex the bar around or its not loose on the jackshaft.
I was also thinking about how to calculate or measure this accurately too and then shim the post what ever way it needs, I have a granite setup table with height mike in my machine shop , I will measure how much extra it would take at +.050, +.100 and +.150 and post my numbers in next few days if Jim doesn't post data before then, Smitty

tommcat 02-14-2014 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jet (Post 10970641)
cat made 3 critical error's
1) they should have kept dd drive
2) they should have used higher quality parts everywhere
3) they had no buisness using the front heat exchanger as a motor mount

i'll agree on points 2 and 3, but when we had DD you couldnt open a single thread without people bitching about it and that being the root cause of all the evil in the world.

smittyseng 02-14-2014 07:44 PM

"Secondly from what I have seen if you can't achieve the c t c, the TLC needs to be removed and the back of it needs to be machined out where the motor boss meets it to give it more room to move to achieve c t c. The only issue I can see doing any of this is, in reallity you are moving the TLC the motor is really not moving that much. Problem being, after the TLC is adjusted to get c t c / alignment, you don't know if the jackshaft is still perpendicular to the chaincase bearing any more. or maybe it never was...at the very least perfect clutch alignment will benefit over the jackshaft being .001-.002" out of perpendicularity.[/QUOTE]"

I spent another long night last night doing exactly what you are saying and in the end after making a extreme off set bushing, relieving the mounts and fighting this pos to get the mounts on and off, when I finally had motor moved enough to get cxc correct, the horizontal alignment was 3 times as bad because as jackshaft moved towards motor it created MORE negative horizontal , I realized you can only move it so much before that happens. I am also changing chains and sprockets, jackshaft, bearings and installing head studs at same time so sled is in about 500 parts. There are 3 choices at that point, 1.start shimming/modding the front attachment points, 2. tear motor out of sled pretty much and install Turbies mounts 3. Mod the OSP tool to fit, leave CxC long/buy a longer belt and just focus on getting alignment correct, so I put everything back together with the osp poly mounts and factory aluminum brackets modded, installed the Billet jackshaft and hoped that the new poly mounts changed it up a little but changed nothing as my old ones were still really new.
Tomorrow I am going to try to get the measurements I mentioned and mod my OSP tool in mill and try to get this thing straightened out!!!!

jet 02-14-2014 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommcat (Post 10971009)
i'll agree on points 2 and 3, but when we had DD you couldnt open a single thread without people bitching about it and that being the root cause of all the evil in the world.

true!! people thought it was slowing them down when it wasnt and others thought that it was unreliable which I never experienced.

on a positive note, I took my box stock turbo out on a 102 mile hell run, ride it like I stole it, I just dont care anymore ride last night that involved jumping ditch crossings, rough trail, a lot of tight woods and then a 20 mile run back to home base running an abandoned rail road grade wfo!! Im happy to report that the sled survived and Im seeing 110 top speed on groomed hard pack and cruises at 100 no problem with the new gears and clutch!! I am running a 1.5 ripsaw so that does slow me down.

it sure felt good to just go ride this sled the way I like to ride and what I bought it for. Its an absolute joy when it is working right. life doesnt get any better!!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:24 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0