Hi, help a newb with his 600 xc clutching! - Page 3 - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 12-15-2010, 07:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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epi maroon primary spring with 10-63 weights. epi orange secondary spring. i believe r12 secondary helix with the spring in the center hole
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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how do you move the secondary spring from hole to hole? (just a newb, be easy on me )
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by framer__ View Post
epi maroon primary spring with 10-63 weights. epi orange secondary spring. i believe r12 secondary helix with the spring in the center hole
No 10-63 weights made. R12 only has 4 holes. No middle one.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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In normal newb fashion I bought a helix without reaserching a whole lot, exactly HOW will this 48/36 helix affect me over my stock one?
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:29 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Maybe not much, maybe a lot... It will depend on how short or long the duration of the beginning angle is relative to the ending angle is, and what kind of curvature is on the ramp. Some of the short steeper angled ramps change quickly, some are "full progressive" which means that the ramp is gradually changing from one to the other the whole length, or at least most of it. Some change a third of the way down the ramp, others half-way. Some helix's actually have steps on them, too. I've got a 48-36 with three steps on it. The steeper the angle the harder it is for the engine to spin it, but makes the clutch work harder, and depending on the load and spring tension, can make the machine move/start/respond better or faster to input. But, if the ramp is too steep, the engine will bog down from too much of a load, and make it slower. Steep ramps are better for sleds with a good bite and smooth, hard trails, or for drag racing, but shallower angles tend to backshift better and allow the engine not to work so hard, like ditching or trail riding.

The key is to find the helix which will give you the right combination, which can be tricky if your snow and terrain changes a lot. That will be up for you to determine. After reading about several options, the right helix for one guy is not necessarily the one you find works the best. It is nice to have a couple identical clutch set-ups, but have different helix's in each one, makes it easy to change out right on the trail, lake, ditch, waterhole, road or wherever you ride. You would need to devote some specific time and conditions that you would normally encounter to do this. That's what makes the fast guys faster. It also helps to be running against a known sled, as a "pace" model, to see how it performs against it, it is often hard to get a seat-of the pants feel, one might feel faster, but in reality, it is slower. A measured track, or course, hill, timed event, all can be of assistance.

You now have something to compare it with, the stock helix, which it would appear is an R-11, (45-36), and the new one. Try the 48-36, see how it performs differently for you, it may be enough, not enough or too much. See where it changes, where the benefits of each are, then after you have swapped them back and forth a couple times, try different spring holes. Adding more tension to the helix spring will usually slow down the opening movement of the secondary (shift-out), and quicken backshift. How do the RPM's appear under various conditions and loads, do you need heavier or lighter weights, all these factors come into play, too, and age of the belt, springs, bushings, etc. Quite a lot to it, really.
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:18 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I wrote this awhile ago might help a bit

Starting with the Secondary clutch you need to take the bolt out that holds it on the shaft (hopefully the clutch isnt rusted on the shaft), Check:

That the shaft isnt rusty

That the key and keyways arent excesivly worn.

Next take the clutch to your work bench, keep downpressure on the helix and take out the snap ring, Make sure:

The helix comes off the shaft (if its hard i like to hold the helix down and sandpaper the shaft a bit)

The shaft isnt rusty,

The helix where it touches the button isnt grooved

The spring isnt broke (realy should be replaced yearly)

The Helix key and Keyway isnt excesivly worn

The buttons arent worn out (they should be replaced anyway { screw a small screw into them and pull them out with vicegrips})

Next pull the sheeves apart and check that the huge washer(s) between the two sheeves isnt disintigraded.

Put everything back in order (i clean everything with hot water and dish detergent and dry very well)( use a LITTLE chassis greese rubbed on the clutch shaft and the jackshaft to keep things moving) ,

Be for you put the snap ring on you have to preload the helix into the clutch. What i do is mark out where the buttons are on the outside of the clutch, then push the helix with the key in the keyway into the clutch a buitt (not touching the buttons) Then i turn the sheaves opposite each other untill the helix reaches a quarter turn (hard to explain!), Then push the helix all the way down (i use a board under my knee) and install a spacer and the snap wring.



Primary clutch:

You need a clutchpuller to sensibly work on it, You remove the jambolt from the clutch, install the clutch puller with lots of chassis greese and tighten decently tight, then hammer it like a nail going in the crank and tighten again and hammer again until it pops off.

Then when taking off the 12 cover bolts ALWAYS keep downforce on the cover ( I use my knee) And never take off the downforce till they are all 100% off the clutch.

Remove the cover and spring, make sure:

The Spyder moves on the shaft smoothly

The usualy silver rollers that the cam arms (AKA weights) rub on should NOT have flat spots and should roll like a bearing sorta...
Next open the sheeves as far as possible and grab a cam arm and see if:
it has any movement on the pins. (Any movement or play means the bushings are garbage.)
If the Cam Arms have groove worn in them where they touch the rollers.


Again clean with hot water and dish liquid. Or fire it in the dishwasher for a very nice and easy clean...

I never use any lubricants on my primary clutch, except a tiny bit of white synthetic greese on the cover bolts.

When reasembling, again keep downforce on the cover untill all bolts are back in place. (Push down on the face and pull up on the moveable sheave.)


Guys please add to this i know i missed alot of stuff
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:43 PM   #27 (permalink)
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THANKS TO ALL WITH THE ADVICE!!! I put in the 48/36 helix and a purple epi secondary in the first hole.

SHE ABSOLUTELY HAULS, ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY.

I still plan to put in the 10-60 weights, just waiting on the primary clutch removal tool. I may end up ordering a red epi primary spring, depends how the engagement turns out with the 10-60's. (look at me, talking like a pro! thanks again all!)

She sits almost peeerrrrfeeccttt on the rpm, just about 8k.

What do you guys think will happen with the 10-60's? I'm guessing my engagement will lower a little but I should have a little better power transfer.
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:11 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Unless that particular helix has a different location of holes located from its keyway opposed to oem i'd used the 2nd hole rather than the 1st. You will have better backshifting for trail use and get better fuel economy in the process.
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by too slow View Post
Unless that particular helix has a different location of holes located from its keyway opposed to oem i'd used the 2nd hole rather than the 1st. You will have better backshifting for trail use and get better fuel economy in the process.
I will probably fiddle with it a bit more, but i am totally loving the raw power right now, she does backshift a tad bit slow. Will probably end up changing it. Its nice how super easy it has become for me to take off and adjust the secondary.

My thread should should become a sticky for other rookies like me, I have learned so much.
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:15 PM   #30 (permalink)
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If you guys are curious about my current endevor, its finding out where the VES 600 makes peak torque. What RPM reading do you guys feel this motor puts out its max power?
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