2010 dragon 600 cleanfire- 2 - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 03-26-2009, 09:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Why does polaris change frome cleanfire-4 to cleanfire-2 on the 2010 models of the 600 engine?
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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??????
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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my guess would be for emissions, other wise I don't see why
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Wouldnt it be cleaner with 4 injectors?
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Why does polaris change frome cleanfire-4 to cleanfire-2 on the 2010 models of the 600 engine?[/b]
My guess is fuel mapping issues. Perhaps someone can confirm this??

My understanding is that with the 4 injector set-up you have low speed & hi-speed injectors, opening up the likelihood of overlap or "gaps" in the fuel delivery.

The Ski-Doo's are 1 injector per cylinder set-ups.

I have a 2007 Ski-Doo jet ski 1500 cc 3 cylinder, Supercharged (6-6 1/2 p.s.i. boost stock), 215 h.p. stock, fuel injected, a single 38 pound per hour injector per 500 cc cylinder. Same set-up they've been running since 2004 without fuel mapping issues. NO hesitations, smooth acceleration all the time.

With minor bolt-on mods I've got 9-10 p.s.i. boost, 260+ h.p., NEVER changed the e.c.u., did NOT have to change the injectors. Pretty simple system. For more radical mods, other guys install 42 lb. or 50 lb. (or larger) injectors and/or a RISING RATE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR which increases fuel pressure as supercharger boost increases.

No headaches with updated Re-flash #1, #2, #3, etc.


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Old 03-26-2009, 07:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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kraven is correct......polaris cant find their ass with both hands when it comes to fuel mapping.
thats why Orbital Technologies is under contract to do all of polaris's fuel maps for 2010 and beyond.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My guess is fuel mapping issues. Perhaps someone can confirm this??

My understanding is that with the 4 injector set-up you have low speed & hi-speed injectors, opening up the likelihood of overlap or "gaps" in the fuel delivery.

The Ski-Doo's are 1 injector per cylinder set-ups.

I have a 2007 Ski-Doo jet ski 1500 cc 3 cylinder, Supercharged (6-6 1/2 p.s.i. boost stock), 215 h.p. stock, fuel injected, a single 38 pound per hour injector per 500 cc cylinder. Same set-up they've been running since 2004 without fuel mapping issues. NO hesitations, smooth acceleration all the time.

With minor bolt-on mods I've got 9-10 p.s.i. boost, 260+ h.p., NEVER changed the e.c.u., did NOT have to change the injectors. Pretty simple system. For more radical mods, other guys install 42 lb. or 50 lb. (or larger) injectors and/or a RISING RATE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR which increases fuel pressure as supercharger boost increases.

No headaches with updated Re-flash #1, #2, #3, etc.[/b]
Not 100% positive but the main reason for the 2 vs. 4 injectors is cleaner emissions. Ski Doo actually haas 2 injectors in each cylinder on there sled motors. The biggest difference is the Ski Doo injectors are in the intake ports and the polaris has one in each cylinder boost port and one in each side of the case. Ski DOO has a patent that keeps Polaris or Cat from having injectors where theres are and from the cal issues i can see why. The reason Cat doesn't have a SDI is because between Polaris and ski Doo's injector location patents there isn't a good place to put them. Most likely Cat is going straight to Direct Injection soon. Until Polaris puts an o2 sensor in their system it will never be perfect for all conditions.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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kraven is correct......polaris cant find their ass with both hands when it comes to fuel mapping.
thats why Orbital Technologies is under contract to do all of polaris's fuel maps for 2010 and beyond.
[/b]
Don't hold your breath with orbital. Unless polaris actually spends the money on an o2 sensor or a fuel type sensor the system isn't going to get a whole lot better.
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Not 100% positive but the main reason for the 2 vs. 4 injectors is cleaner emissions. Ski Doo actually haas 2 injectors in each cylinder on there sled motors. The biggest difference is the Ski Doo injectors are in the intake ports and the polaris has one in each cylinder boost port and one in each side of the case. Ski DOO has a patent that keeps Polaris or Cat from having injectors where theres are and from the cal issues i can see why. The reason Cat doesn't have a SDI is because between Polaris and ski Doo's injector location patents there isn't a good place to put them. Most likely Cat is going straight to Direct Injection soon. Until Polaris puts an o2 sensor in their system it will never be perfect for all conditions.[/b]


I heard about the injector placement patent before, however, POLARIS obviously has the emmisions compliance green light as they're going forward with the 2 injector (one per cylinder) set-up for 2010 on the 600

So now that POLARIS has somewhat graduated in their crash-course in fuel mapping with the four injector set-up, with respect to the 600, they're proceeding with "a totally new fuel map" on the two injector set-up?

Let's think about that for a moment. The ONLY fuel good fuel map that POLARIS has in it's fleet is on the 600. Why would they change it??

I'm NOT saying I have the answer here, but I'll bet the Aussies already have dictated to POLARIS that the 2 injector set-up (one per cylinder) is the ONLY way to go.

This should be interesting as the facts materialize.

And then sometime after that , 2011???, they're going to try for the 800 two injector set-up??

Even more interesting.
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Byron Circa 1984, '72 Dodge Colt, Full Tube Chassis, Strange Struts, 4 Link, Koni Coil Overs, 15" x 33", Mild 426 Wedge, Torqueflite, Lexan windows, Dzus Fasteners & Quick Release Pins Everywhere, All Polished Aluminum Interior, Fuel Cell, "Weld" Superlite Wheels, 2220 lbs. w/Driver, Leaving the Starting Line Carrying the Front Wheels and Being Plastered into the Back of the Seat and Stopping it from 137+ m.p.h. by Pulling the Parachute-PRICELESS!!!



Byron, 1982, 71 Dodge Demon, 426 Wedge, Aluminum 4-speed, Narrowed Dana 4.56, Alston Bars & Floater, SS Springs, 12.20" x 31.25" Firestones, Polished Centerlines, 10 pt Rollcage, Aluminum wheel tubs, Fiberglass fenders, hood, & decklid


1986 INDY 600 LIMITED EDITION CHROME PACKAGE [/b]91 M.P.H. @ RADAR RUNS 1000' (6000+ MILES) TRAILERED TO YELLOWSTONE IN 1988
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Old 03-27-2009, 01:17 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I heard about the injector placement patent before, however, POLARIS obviously has the emmisions compliance green light as they're going forward with the 2 injector (one per cylinder) set-up for 2010 on the 600

So now that POLARIS has somewhat graduated in their crash-course in fuel mapping with the four injector set-up, with respect to the 600, they're proceeding with "a totally new fuel map" on the two injector set-up?

Let's think about that for a moment. The ONLY fuel good fuel map that POLARIS has in it's fleet is on the 600. Why would they change it??

I'm NOT saying I have the answer here, but I'll bet the Aussies already have dictated to POLARIS that the 2 injector set-up (one per cylinder) is the ONLY way to go.

This should be interesting as the facts materialize.

And then sometime after that , 2011???, they're going to try for the 800 two injector set-up??

Even more interesting.[/b]
All Polaris two strokes will soon need to be 2-injector then the Orbital DI(most likely 600 next year)for them to meet the future EPA requirements as they fell behind in the four stroke market and didn't have many credits to burn. Too bad for all of us consumers that they didn't spend the money on the o2 sensor and charge us for it if it could fix the larger cc engines mapping problems. Poeple need to realize that the 2-inj is still a kokusan ignition system albeit is all DC like the 600IQR which is better for durability. The only thing orbital can do is work on the parameters of the existing maps, which had Polaris listened a couple years back to some interanal feedback from the poeple who actually knew what was going on they would have spent more money up front and had more than a few sets of hands and eyes working through all possible conditions. In the long run they will end up spending the money anyway but too bad for them it has caused millions in warranty and lost them many many customers.
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