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Old 03-02-2007, 11:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Took the family and friends to Caroga lake last week. Rented a fantastic house on the lake but found the absolute worst trail system i've ever seen in my 25 yrs snowmobiling. The trails were flat around Caroga to Arietta but were no wider than the skis. We could not ride more than 20mph any time because the trails were so narrow and twisty. 2 members of our party hit trees and bet an A-arm busted cowl and windshield. Fortunately, no one was hurt. Over $1,000 damage and we were riding with kids so it was not due to excessive speed whatsoever. In fact, we were riding the C8 trail! Yes, one of the main corridor trails in NYS! The signage was very poor around Caroga and the town of Caroga lake scraped the roads marked for snowmobiles down to the dirt with more sand than a beach. The area has such a great potential to be a great place but they have a long way to go to sled friendly.

We trailered up to Speculator and had one great day riding the lakes mid week. Then headed north to Perkins clearing on Thursday and had another horrible ride! They had not groomed the trail since we had been through there 5 days prior and we passed 4 groomers just collecting dust on the side of the trails. So we turned around after a mile of frustration and decided not to ride that day because even the lakes were 4ft moguls.

I hope they can improve the system there as it would be a great place to begin long loops from. But when I spoke to a friendly man grooming one day he said that the DEC claims that all trails are 8 feet wide and won't let them cut down trees. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT THE CORRIDOR 8 TRAIL IS 8 FEET WIDE ibetween Caroga and Arietta! For now, I would consider that area off limits for me because the trails are so dangerous and won't risk mine or my family's lives in that area.

It's about time a concerted effort is made to put our registration and club fees to use in NYS. There is no reason that, given our short season this year, our clubs are well funded to run groomers every day and can afford to pay groomers a good buck to do so. We as riders should demand that or else we will lose a large portion of the tens of millions of dollars spent in this State on tourism in the winter season.

NYS is making it more and more difficult to make snowmobiling a family sport because of the lack of coordination and organization. The troubles can no longer be blamed on lack of funding so it's time to step up and make some progress. The Old Forge region has a great "trail system" and how it is over crowded which makes riding there less enjoyable, it is at least a solid, organized, well signed system. If the State would adopt or widen that system throughout the entire Adirondack Park, we would have the premier riding system in the East. instead, we have a disconnected set of trails where one cannot ride without risk of injury by crash or by severe moguls that keeps the chiropractors and orthopedic surgeons in business.

Same old complaining here I'm sure, but this trip almost put me to the edge of giving up the sport in NY altogether..Let's hope it improves.
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Took the family and friends to Caroga lake last week. Rented a fantastic house on the lake but found the absolute worst trail system i've ever seen in my 25 yrs snowmobiling. The trails were flat around Caroga to Arietta but were no wider than the skis. We could not ride more than 20mph any time because the trails were so narrow and twisty. 2 members of our party hit trees and bet an A-arm busted cowl and windshield. Fortunately, no one was hurt. Over $1,000 damage and we were riding with kids so it was not due to excessive speed whatsoever. In fact, we were riding the C8 trail! Yes, one of the main corridor trails in NYS! The signage was very poor around Caroga and the town of Caroga lake scraped the roads marked for snowmobiles down to the dirt with more sand than a beach. The area has such a great potential to be a great place but they have a long way to go to sled friendly.

We trailered up to Speculator and had one great day riding the lakes mid week. Then headed north to Perkins clearing on Thursday and had another horrible ride! They had not groomed the trail since we had been through there 5 days prior and we passed 4 groomers just collecting dust on the side of the trails. So we turned around after a mile of frustration and decided not to ride that day because even the lakes were 4ft moguls.

I hope they can improve the system there as it would be a great place to begin long loops from. But when I spoke to a friendly man grooming one day he said that the DEC claims that all trails are 8 feet wide and won't let them cut down trees. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT THE CORRIDOR 8 TRAIL IS 8 FEET WIDE ibetween Caroga and Arietta! For now, I would consider that area off limits for me because the trails are so dangerous and won't risk mine or my family's lives in that area.

It's about time a concerted effort is made to put our registration and club fees to use in NYS. There is no reason that, given our short season this year, our clubs are well funded to run groomers every day and can afford to pay groomers a good buck to do so. We as riders should demand that or else we will lose a large portion of the tens of millions of dollars spent in this State on tourism in the winter season.

NYS is making it more and more difficult to make snowmobiling a family sport because of the lack of coordination and organization. The troubles can no longer be blamed on lack of funding so it's time to step up and make some progress. The Old Forge region has a great "trail system" and how it is over crowded which makes riding there less enjoyable, it is at least a solid, organized, well signed system. If the State would adopt or widen that system throughout the entire Adirondack Park, we would have the premier riding system in the East. instead, we have a disconnected set of trails where one cannot ride without risk of injury by crash or by severe moguls that keeps the chiropractors and orthopedic surgeons in business.

Same old complaining here I'm sure, but this trip almost put me to the edge of giving up the sport in NY altogether..Let's hope it improves.[/b]
You need to do a little research and contact your assemblymen, senator and govorner about your concerns. And also go sign this petition. Oppose Grannis
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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What he said,

Also, the Three out of Four Lake Pleasant town groomers were down the middle of last week. Hence sitting. The Speculator was groomed nightly.

Perkins was unusually bad what with the recent deep snow and groomers down, they were all repaired, running, and grooming by Friday.

Unfortunate because a mid week ride there is usually great.
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You need to do a little research and contact your assemblymen, senator and govorner about your concerns. And also go sign this petition. Oppose Grannis[/b]

Alexander B. Pete Grannis is a assemblymen from the east side of Manhattan, probably has never seen a snowmobile, but from reading the NY Times hates them. Time for upstate to break away from NYC.
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Old 03-03-2007, 02:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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VERY WELL SAID FIXER MAN. I BEEN RIDING IN THAT AREA FOR 15 YEARS NOW AND NO IMPROVEMENTS.I KNOW WHAT YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY "WELL WHY YOU KEEP RIDING HERE" IS BECAUSE WE HAVE A HOUSE ON PISECO. I GOT TOURN APART ON ANOUTHER POST SAYING THAT THE TRAILS SUCK. IM GLAD THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE SEEING IT AS WELL AS I AM. ALSO WHENEVER SOME ONE HAS A COMPLAINT THE EXCUSE IS THE GROOMERS WERE BROKEN. THAT GETS A LITTLE OLD TO HEAR. IF THE GROOMERS ARE ALWAYS BROKEN AND SUCH JUNK GO GET NEW ONES, I KNOW THAT THEIR NOT CHEAP, BUT WE PAY ENOUGH TO JOIN A CLUB, AS WELL AS REGISTER OUR SNOWMOBILES. PEOPLE SPEND ALOT OF MONEY ON THEIR MACHINES, AND WHEN THEY RIDE THESE TRAILS THEY GET BEAT UP. ITS A SHAME 10 YERAS AGO SPECULATOR USE TO BE PACKED WITH SLEDS, YOU ARE LUCKY IF YOU PASS 10 SLEDS A DAY. THE WAY I LOOK AT IT IS THE AREA IN SPECULATOR IS ONLY HURTING THEMSELVES, AS WELL AS THE BUSINESSES IN THE AREA....
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Wow Chuck you seem to have all the answers. Why not become an officer of the club. OPh yea you live to far away but you do own a second home and are such a great contributer to the area, your whining that is.

Really you should take a stroll in those shoes sometime. I'm sure they would love to put your whiney azz on a Skandic and let you have at it.

And now for how I really feel. You Jersey, downstate, and upstate whinney azzholes really need to realize that none of us owe you a fuggin thing for your registration or memberships dues. That's right $70 ( really closer to $55) doesn't go very far when your trying to maintain 11,000 miles of trails.

And tell me how much work do you do for free? Especially when everyone else is out having fun or sleeping. How many weekends do you give up in the summer and fall to help.? How about during the winter?

Maybe you should just stay in Jersey and ride that beautiful trail system Corzine is building. :yelrotflmao: Oh yea you have a house upstate and you should have everything perfect like it is in Jersey, right? Everyone should cater to your important azz right? Wrong!
You seem to have plenty of time to whine here but no time to lend a helping hand or find out what the problem may be.

Step up to plate and be someone not just another citidiot.
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Old 03-04-2007, 05:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm not trying to offend anyone here especially the folks who run the clubs and volunteer to help the sport. Those who take the time to volunteer their time to support snowmobiling take a high standing with me and I thank them every opportunity I get. My gripe is with NY State who should support those folks more. The clubs bear all of the responsibility while the state blows them off entirely.

Why is it necessary to attack one another when we all want the same thing-- a safe, fun and reliable trail system. Does it really matter where people come from to ride our trails? Last I knew, that was called tourism and it brings in lots of resources for all of us to benefit from no matter where we live in the State. Instead of infighting, we should harness that and apply it to our state leaders.

On my way to ride the Hill with my buddies today...I'll load up on some aspirin
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Old 03-04-2007, 07:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm not trying to offend anyone here especially the folks who run the clubs and volunteer to help the sport. Those who take the time to volunteer their time to support snowmobiling take a high standing with me and I thank them every opportunity I get. My gripe is with NY State who should support those folks more. The clubs bear all of the responsibility while the state blows them off entirely.

Why is it necessary to attack one another when we all want the same thing-- a safe, fun and reliable trail system. Does it really matter where people come from to ride our trails? Last I knew, that was called tourism and it brings in lots of resources for all of us to benefit from no matter where we live in the State. Instead of infighting, we should harness that and apply it to our state leaders.

On my way to ride the Hill with my buddies today...I'll load up on some aspirin [/b]
The local economys want this tourism the greenies have other agendas. Can you see what you elected officals are doing?
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Old 03-04-2007, 09:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Fixer, Father,
I agree with both of you. The State. APA , DEC and landowners dictate what we can do with our trails. From how wide(9FT), location, when we are allowed to clear them, (not until after deer season up here), and what you can use to groom them. After applying all the rules and regulations you really are not left with any room for anything.
What it will take to change this is for riders to support the sport by attending the DEC meetings throughout the state, write to the public officials in the area that you ride and let them know your ideas, suggestions and frustrations. Paying your club dues is not supporting the sport, every one knows that most clubs are useless. NYSSA don't help either, they are the ones that supported the idea of having to join a club. If everyone kept their radar on about the sport and supported it instead of getting on these forums and bitching about the trails and how the clubs don't take care of them we all would be better off.
Just for information, up here in Piseco/Speculator area there are not a lot of us that live here year round. When you start adding up all that we have to do around here to keep so people can come here and enjoy themselves, time is short. Take myself for example, I run a business, have second part time job for slow time of year, volunteer fireman, Ambulance member-EMT(including hours and hours of training), deputy emergency medical coordinator for the county, snowmobile committee member, and trail groomer. Most people up here are in the same boat, if we didn't do this, who would?
I am fairly certain it wouldn't be out of staters, all though we have many volunteers from out of state that are seasonal residents. I would just wish everyone would take the energy they are putting forth tearing up the trails and then bitching about how bad they are and put toward fighting for what we want, better trails. Take the time to research what it takes to groom, get educated on how the whole system works, from where your registration money goes to how the clubs are actually funded, oh yea, we still haven't got money from last years (05-06) grooming. Check out the APA's State land use plan for the Adirondack Park. Then get on here and let us know how you feel, probably the same as us-frustrated.
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Old 03-04-2007, 09:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Good points here, Sammy and thank you for your efforts and hard work in Speculator...it is a beautiful place with lots of friendly people there and some of those "out of staters'' saved our butts a couple of weeks ago.

I agree that all of us need a better understanding of the grooming process to appreciate it but I believe that in NYS, snowmobiling generates enough revenues from taxation and registration fees to hire PAID groomers in addition to those would want to volunteer. If we can plow roads and have people standing in a box collecting the ridiculous thruway tolls (that was supposed to end years ago)costing $50k per year, then why can't our legislators budget $10million each year to hiring dedicated groomers and mechanics? After all, the sport generates hundres of million dollars in year in total revenues to the state each season. If $40 million is generated in tax revenue from the total, that would be returning 1/4 of the state revenues collected. And this does not even include membership dues! My point is not what the volunteers like you do for us riders, it's the fact that our government leaders haven't a clue what a terrific asset we have in this state.

I'd be a great groomer--can those machines knock down trees?

PS..Rode the hill today from Parish--160miles and 70% of trails were in great shape..20% good and about 10% total crap but we had a great ride.
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