Cylinder head bolt torque - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 01-06-2010, 12:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I sold my 1991 Indy 500 back up sled to my brother inlaw finally after three years of nagging. For the last three years it has not been used, just brought out of storage, prepaired for the season and then sat there all winter waiting to be used. End of season it was fogged and put away. As for the sled history, it was bought in really rough shape back in 2003 and I did a complete restore job except for the engine which seem pretty tight. I rode it like I stole it for 2 yars and 2000 miles before the head gasket went on it. At that time not knowing what condition the engine was really in I decided to do a complete overhaul top to bottom. New crank bearings, fresh bore, etc. Rode it again for another 1000 plus miles trouble free and then purchased a 2005 700 rmk. The old girl was never to be used again.
Anyway I brought it out of storage this year did the pre season cleaning of the carbs, clutches, greased everything and let the brother inlaw take it home . 10 miles into his first ride it starts losing power and the antifreeze starts disappearing. He brought it back and I figured head gaskets again so I pulled the head and cylinders , new gaskets and torqued the head to 18 ft pounds ( manual says 17-19 ftlb) Fired it up and let it come up to temperature ,coolant was flowing and no leaks, problem solved . Retorqued the heads for good measure , couple of nuts turned and most were good. We took the sled for a good run just to check everything over and all was good so it looked. The next morning there was a trail of antifreeze running down the cylinder again and I was thinking warped head but can't figure out why because it was always good and never overheated. I checked the cylinder nuts and the nuts needed to be retorqued again. I got him to drive it to the house so I could look it over again. When he arrived everythig was dry but the nuts needed to be done again.

Here is the question what can I do to stop this. Can I torque them higher or should I used blue loc tite. I don't think new nuts will help. These are in good shape and not stripped.

Sorry for the long read.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
I sold my 1991 Indy 500 back up sled to my brother inlaw finally after three years of nagging. For the last three years it has not been used, just brought out of storage, prepaired for the season and then sat there all winter waiting to be used. End of season it was fogged and put away. As for the sled history, it was bought in really rough shape back in 2003 and I did a complete restore job except for the engine which seem pretty tight. I rode it like I stole it for 2 yars and 2000 miles before the head gasket went on it. At that time not knowing what condition the engine was really in I decided to do a complete overhaul top to bottom. New crank bearings, fresh bore, etc. Rode it again for another 1000 plus miles trouble free and then purchased a 2005 700 rmk. The old girl was never to be used again.
Anyway I brought it out of storage this year did the pre season cleaning of the carbs, clutches, greased everything and let the brother inlaw take it home . 10 miles into his first ride it starts losing power and the antifreeze starts disappearing. He brought it back and I figured head gaskets again so I pulled the head and cylinders , new gaskets and torqued the head to 18 ft pounds ( manual says 17-19 ftlb) Fired it up and let it come up to temperature ,coolant was flowing and no leaks, problem solved . Retorqued the heads for good measure , couple of nuts turned and most were good. We took the sled for a good run just to check everything over and all was good so it looked. The next morning there was a trail of antifreeze running down the cylinder again and I was thinking warped head but can't figure out why because it was always good and never overheated. I checked the cylinder nuts and the nuts needed to be retorqued again. I got him to drive it to the house so I could look it over again. When he arrived everythig was dry but the nuts needed to be done again.

Here is the question what can I do to stop this. Can I torque them higher or should I used blue loc tite. I don't think new nuts will help. These are in good shape and not stripped.

Sorry for the long read.[/b]

Are they studs or bolts??

I would start off with new studs or bolt first, and make sure the threads in the block are good. No reason I can think of to not use some form of thread locker on the nuts.


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Old 01-06-2010, 04:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Are they studs or bolts??

I would start off with new studs or bolt first, and make sure the threads in the block are good. No reason I can think of to not use some form of thread locker on the nuts.[/b]
I was thinking along the same lines. I know it is possible for bolts to "go plastic" which means they have been stretched too far and now stretch very easy until they break - they no longer have the tensil strength they did when new.
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Old 01-06-2010, 04:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hey nitris223,

If you used a Winderosa head gasket, it did the same thing on my 96 500. I just kept torquing until it took a set. Unfortuately, like you, I waited too long between torquings and lost the gasket any way. I don't know how an OEM or Cometic would fare though....

If the studs are stretching or pulling out of the block you should be able to see it or have problems running the nuts down through the whole threaded part of the stud with the head off. It is unlikely that the stud would stretch on the thicker untreaded part of it, providing there is some.

Also - make sure your torque wrench is reasonably calibrated. Test it with a fish scale to get a rough idea of where it is at. Example: if the wrench is 1.5 ft long and you are looking for 18 lb-ft of torque, the fish scale should read 12 lbs of force when the wrench is at torque or "clicks" when the fish scale is pulling on the outer length of the handle.

Good luck!

Steve

BTW: Using a thread locker will make retorqing impossible to get correct as the locker will prevent the torque wrench from reading properly once it has set up. I would stay away from that if I could.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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could also be coolant leaking up through the head bolts. when the motor cools the metal contracts and causes tight seals to become.. well not so tight. I know on my 600 the torque for head bolts is 24-25 ft lbs. Maybe ur under torqueing?
I would put thread sealant on the head bolts... or blue loctite?
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Had this happen to me before and in my case it was the dowl pin on the cyl was pulled out a bit and cocked.I would torque it down as by the time it warmed up it would leak,retorque,no leak,,,run,,,leak.I removed the head and tapped the dowl pin all the way in and re installed.
Steve
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Are they studs or bolts??

I would start off with new studs or bolt first, and make sure the threads in the block are good. No reason I can think of to not use some form of thread locker on the nuts.[/b]

They are studs in the cylinder and have never been out to my knowledge. I am going to check my torque wrenches. I have 2 of them 3/8'' drive and 1/2'' drive. I might try 22 ftlb and see if that works. If not I will try thread sealent first and loc tite as a last resort.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Do they have the washers under them and i torque all me head nuts to 25 ft-lbs with no problems.
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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No washers, they are a castle nut I think it's what they are called with the washer built in.
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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try teflon paste on the shank of the head bolts after all the retorquing you may need a new gasket too.
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