1996 Indy Storm 800 questions. *Update now 861* - Page 2 - HCS Snowmobile Forums

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Old 02-07-2009, 07:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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When you do your compression test, are you doing it with the engine cold, all spark plugs removed, and holding the throttle all the way open? If not you are getting an incorrect reading. There may be nothing wrong with it. You may also want to try a different compression tester or try yours on a different know good machine.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
When you do your compression test, are you doing it with the engine cold, all spark plugs removed, and holding the throttle all the way open? If not you are getting an incorrect reading. There may be nothing wrong with it. You may also want to try a different compression tester or try yours on a different know good machine.[/b]
I've checked it every which way always with all plugs removed, last time was cold, throttle wide open and it was L-100 M-85 R-75. I don't think the tester is too far off as it matched shop air pressure pretty close. I soaked the cylinders with Deep Creep overnight this week, it pulls to 8000-8100 now, never never pulled that high that before , wonder if the rings were stuck up a bit. Have to try all the magic juice first right? I know I can do a piston/cylinder or complete rebuild if it comes to that.
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Old 02-07-2009, 10:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If the cylinders are nicasil plated and in good shape, and the pistons are good, you can usually get away with a light hone and new rings and gaskets to freshen it up. R3 is 45-32 and R11 is 45-36. No special tools needed to change primary spring and weights, only to rebuild. Springs do weaken over time. Primary was a blue spring with 10-60 weights for standard and sks, 10-56's for the RMK. Stick with the 60's for your elevation. Secondary is blue also and R3 like you said. Should work pretty good on the flatlands that way.
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Old 02-08-2009, 10:17 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks.

Well it's a pretty short track.

I rode it some more today, it starts and runs pretty good, the bog could be because of it being way down on power for the way the gearing and clutches are set up. When it gets up to 7500 on hard pack it will pull the skis - it's scary fast compared to that Ski Whiz I last owned.[/b]

Stock storms had a notorious bog at the low end from the factory. This was fixed by replacing the reeds. V-force 3 work pretty well.

You said in a post about the plugs looking good.. How exactly are you judging good? 4 stroke plug reading and 2 stroke plug reading are totally different, and comparing against ~25 year old memories of a 1981 2 stroke might not be a good tell either..

These compression tests sound way too inconsistent. The PSI should be more consistent no matter how you test.

1 - L-60 M-55 R-35 (next morning cold test moved to top)
2 - L-75 M-60 R-48 (cold closed throttle)
3 - L-75 M-68 R-64 (hot closed throttle)
4 - L-100 M-75 R-64 (hot open throttle)

The 1 and 2 should be identical.. (+/- 5%) ..of each other, instead they have 15,5,13 PSI difference.

2 to 3 should raise all 3 cylinders some, but it only raises 2 cylinders, instead they have 0,8,16 PSI difference.

3 to 4 should also raise all 3 some, but only raises 2 cylinders, instead they have 25,7,0 PSI difference.

That's what I mean about consistent.

You might want to take your tester to a known good sled and try it out, because trying it on an air tank won't account for leaks in the threads, etc. You could also borrow one from a buddy or rent one from an auto parts store. (never use a 'push in' tester without electric start, only thread in)

If your compression tester is ok, you might want to take a look at your reeds as well as pistons/cylinders.

Pull your exhaust and stick a flashlight in the ports, and look in the plug holes at the cylinder walls. Also, if you can, look in the exhaust ports at the side of the pistons and look for scoring. (just turn the clutch to move the pistons up and down for better viewing) If you see any scoring on the jugs, pull the jug and measure the bore. If the bore is ok, the jug is ok, just lightly hone the jug and replace the piston. If you don't see scoring on the cylinders and do on the pistons, replace the pistons.

When I rebuilt my storm 3 seasons ago, I used SPI pistons.. No problems with them..

As a side note, a stronger guy can get quite a bit more (20 psi+) compression out of the same engine while pulling. I've seen this in person with a father (60) and son (35) pulling over the same motor.. Once again though, the compression was consistent between all 3 cylinders with the same guy pulling.

Best of luck, Storms are crazy fast sleds, don't hurt yourself by out-driving your abilities. Get used to it before you go fast on it. :beer_cheers:
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks.

The 21/39 gears are quite a bit better but we pulled the pipes and looked in the exhaust ports, the top ring is broke and gone and the piston top eroded away on the exhaust side of the middle and right cylinders. So now I know what I need to do.

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Old 02-16-2009, 12:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Middle cylinder;



Right (recoil side) cylinder;



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Old 03-12-2010, 03:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hey!

We got this Storm running again a week or so ago. This is what we did;
  • Wiseco 860cc pistons
  • LA overbore sleeves in non-sleeved 1996-1998 cylinders
  • port and sleeve cleanup and matching throughout
  • Boysen reeds
  • stock pipes (bought a set of PSI modblasters but there was no way they were going to fit under the hood without cutting it up.)
  • new comet 4-Pro clutch
  • weird 1996-1998 red cylinder heads that are 35cc (stock are supposed to be 26cc)
  • Cometic single layer head gasket (.011 thick)

The bog at 5000-5500 is still there. It will get stuck at that RPM even at WOT. Yesterday I got it to bog at 5500 WOT, then killed the engine and pulled the plugs - they were nearly black, but not wet. If you are careful to keep the RPM above 6000 and out of the bog the plugs look great, a dry creamy coffee brown.

We have sets of Comet A-1, A-2, weights. engagement RPM with the Comet blue spring was never over 4000 so I put the orange spring from the old clutch in. With that orange spring and a combo of two A-2 and two A-3 weights the engagement RPM is 4500-4600. The orange spring is not a Comet or Polaris orange spring. I think I'm going to order a Comet purple spring. I think it would help some to have te engagement RPM more like 5000+. The Comet blue isn't going to work at all, the orange spring is unknown, (the wire dia of it is .212 the free length is about 4"). I need to be working with known springs. The secondary spring is a stock polaris gold, in the heaviest position, the helix is an R-3 (45-32) I've read a straight 36 would be better.

What's especially frustrating is that from idle we can nail the throttle to wide open and the sled just boggs - won't even spin the track. My gut feeling is it's too rich in the 1/3-1/2-3/4 throttle range. I've tried dropping the needles two slots (they are at #3 stock) but it hasn't cleared the bog. I don't think the 35cc heads help at all, the CR with them is about 9.4. I think the CR at 11 with normal 26cc heads would make a huge difference. Those heads must have been on a turbo sled, can't imagine why else anyone would machine 9ccs out of stock heads.

Timing is at about 17 BTDC @1600 RPM idle which is about perfect. Never checked it at 8000 like it says in the service manual. Too scary. I did order a new CDI off eBay - do the CDI boxes ever go bad?

Do the Mukini needle jets ever wear to a larger diameter? This sled has 5000 miles on it, should I replace the jet needles and needle jets? I dont' think the bog is a main jet issue because over 6000 it runs real clean and good. In other words it's not too rich when on the main jet over 6000 RPM.

Oh, the compression is about 95-100 on all cylinders - that's because of the 35cc chamber heads. I didn't know they were 35cc when I bought them - seller didn'tknow it either and has no idea what they were on.

35cc red head, 26cc purple heads, notice the spark plug height lower in red heads, red heads have a shallower chamber;





26cc stock red head;
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Happy to hear you got it back together. Sounds like you are right back in the same boat though. Can you put the stock heads back on? That will surely help. 100psi for comperssion is still very low. It will barely run on that. I think that is your only real problem. Put needles back to stock settings and you may have to jet up a step having added that many more cc's.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
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What part numbers are the Jet needles and needle jets?

Stock are: needles 6cgy6/3 needle jets: QO SKS and Storm,,, P6 RMK's
Mains: 330 or 350 RMK, mag side

Throw away the Comet and put on a Polaris clutch.
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Two of the stock red heads were too peppered to use. I'm looking for more. I have two good purple heads but the chamber shape is different. The carbs are set up stock, 6CGY6-3 jet needles, Q-0 needle jets, 380-380-400 on the mains. The air screw has been between 1 and 1 1/2, does run better in the leaner postion and with the needles one step down. We are at 2000ft.

The Comet is a new 4-Pro cost 500+, I'm not throwing it away. It takes the exact same weights and springs as the Polaris. I was told all Polaris clutches were made by Comet, when I heard that I quit thinking about a new Polaris clutch and got the 4-Pro. It seems a clutch is a clutch - they come down to springs and weights.
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