Read this first!--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't stress enough the importance of the proper warm-up.

I couple of guys I sold TorqueMaster 800's called me about break-in........

My Answer was Drain the oil tank of all the POlaris Gold VES oil and never run it again, ( Run Cheap good old fashion Petroleum Oil ) heat cycle them a few times and then ride it like a rental.

Come back response -

Heat cycle ???????? what do you mean.........

Then ride it like a rental ????????? Are you serious ????

I said start the sled up and let it get COMPLETELY warmed up to operating temp & then let it completely cool OUTSIDE and then do it again the next day.

Then Ride it like a rental, Let it have it with both barrels.

As far as Oil goes ( this could rasie some hell!!!! )

I am coinsidering VOIDING the three year warranty ( IF ) Polaris GOLD VES oil is used ( OR ) AMSOIL.

My Oils of choice

#1 - The cheap Castrol Oil
#2 - OLD Polaris BLUE ( Not the new stuff )
#3 - Old green Cat Petroleum OIL )

NO SYNTHETICS.

And I don't give a sh!t about the Valves ( CLEAN THEM )

EVERY CRANK I SEE WITH OLD OIL LOOKS BETTER AND HAS NO RUST!!!!!!

I have had countless motors aprt lately with Polaris VES Gold all to find bad pump seals and the O-rings completely detroyed by VES GOLD!!!!!

I can prove it 100%.

WPS ( Western Power Sports ) sells Castrol Oil it comes in a crapy looking green bottle and it retails for $19.95

I don't really care what anyone uses in my motors as long as its 100% Petroleum and ZERO SYNTHETIC.

I have some oil samples sent out to a testing company and some used bearing and if I can prove what type of oil is being run without a shadow of a doubt I am going to VOID the warranty of all my Bottom-ends for any oil related problems that have Polaris VES Gold or AMSOIL used in them.

Ok back to the Warm-up.

I have a guy that has worked for me part time for 15 years and out of all the motors I have built him Bigger and more modded then average motors.

He basicly never has crank or piston problems.

What does he do that most do not do................. He brings a big crank up stand with him every where he goes and lifts the entire sled and warms it up and the belt & track for at least a 1/2 hour before he even takes it down for fuel. Then the sled sits around and heat soaks for the next 1/2 hour.

Now for all you guys that fill up the night before so you can ( Pull and go ) the second you walk out the door. You will have more motor problems then the guy that warms it up.

The single most important thing you can do ( IMO )

Warm your sled up
Shut it off and let it heat soak
then drive to down for fuel and fill it up
Its heat soaking again.
Now your ready to ride.

The colder it is outside the harder you need to work to slowly warm your sled up.

Another note.............. He has NEVER been blowen a belt sense he started riding.

That also goes for me.................. I have NEVER blowen a belt on my own sled.........NEVER. However I have blowen a few on customer sleds.


The warm up of the track and belt is priceless.

Its all very simple WARM-UP-WARM-UP-WARM-UP.

( Most ) crank problems on ALL makes of sleds are do to improper warm-up. PERIOD.

The factory is wrong about injector oil and so are most oil salesman.

Trust me, Amsoil salesman know little to nothing about oil, They only know what they have been programed by all the stupid flyiers given out by by the company of the product they pedal.

Tell me how many Amsoil guys would warranty your bottom-end for 3 years................

Syntheics have a place............I use " Extreme Blue Valvaline " In my Cummins in the winter and the trucks cranking ability is WAY better no doubt about it.

But as far as a sled motor goes the old stuff is BETTER.

Trust me them old Oil-injector pumps can just about pump tar, The oil doesn't need low pour points.

And 100:1 in every tank full is absolute utter magic, I have done it for 20 years and so have all my close friends.

1 pint per full tank full is about 100:1 close enough you don't need to measure just a close guess.

Happy riding!!!

Dan
__________________
Indy Specialty
23503 145 th Ave
Welch Mn 55089
NEW - >> 651-388-9045
E-mail - indydan1@hotmail.com

http://Our Ebay Store www.indyspecialty.net

Polaris 800 Torque Master Bottom-End 3 Year Warranty

 

And Read This!


I found this info on a Bulletin Board in T.E.S. Racing’s Shop
T.E.S. is owned by Tim Sioui who drag races Ski Doo’s on asphalt and specializes in high performance snowmobiles. I believe the info to be accurate and reliable.


2-Stroke Cycle Snowmobile Oils
Wear Properties of Fluid Lubricants
Falex Pin and Vee Block Method

ASTM D2670

This is a comparison of anti-wear properties of popular 2 stroke snowmobile oils. This is an American Society for Testing Materials test that is a lubricant industry standard. This particular test incorporates 500 lbs of pressure on a steel pin and vee block for duration of 3.5 hours. There is a 5-minute break-in period with a 300 pound load. The overall wear is expressed in milligrams of lost metal.

The Results were as follows

BG Hi-Performance Snowmobile Oil, Part No. 784S 15.2
Bel-Ray MC-1 47.8
Bombardier XP-SII 66.3
Polaris Premium Gold Synthetic 82.5
Artic Cat Synthetic APV 112.9
Redline 2-Stroke Racing Oil 144.3
Maxima Castor 927 156.4

These Products failed to reach the required testing pressure of 500 pounds.
• Amsoil High Performance 2-Cycle Injector Oil
• Amsoil Series 2000 2-Cycle Racing Oil
• Artic Cat Extreme
• Bombardier Injection Oil
• Fuchs Silcolene Comp 2 Pre Mix
• Klotz Techniplate Snowmobile Oil
• Klotz Techniplate R-50 Racing Oil
• Torco GP-7 Two Stoke Racing Oil
• Yamalube 2-R Racing Oil

This Oil failed 90 minutes into the test.
• Motul 800 Factory Line

This Oil failed 100 minutes into the test.
* Polaris Premium 2-Cycle




This may be a little late. I hope the attachment is clear enough to read.

 

well personaly i'm a fan of Amsoil. in early04 (fall 03) I bought my left over ProX 600. I ran Amsoil from Day one! I put on over 7000 miles of hard ditch banging, also including racing grass drags and hillcross, and than after a full season of watercross and a lot of sinking my crank finaly went out. PTO bearings and one rod. And at this time it was at the end of the 2006 summer. I have now replaced my crank since than but only due to a waterpump seal failure. My Dad has the same sled, and this thing lookes like it came of the show room floor, but thats because he takes care of it. After 1000 miles, last summer he had to put a new crank in it he PTO bearings were shot! But his Exhaust valves were kinda clean. this is all after running the Polaris VES oil. and now his sled doesn't sit, he rides asmuch as he can, some times every day but might not put on the miles, he also is religious about starting it every so often. So sitting is not a factor.

 

Thanks for the info sledhead. I agree with the warmup and break-in but I'm still not sure about the oil. I know it's a controversial topic but Dan might be on to something about crank bearings and crank life using a non-synthetic. From my experience a non-synthetic seems to cling to a surface better, possibly making it better for bearings. But on the other hand a synthetic, a synthetic is slipprier, which makes the rings last longer and the VES valves run cleaner. A slipprier oil could also be better for bearings because there's less friction and wear but might not cling and stay on the bearings as well.

The AAPI, JASO, ISO are all standarized test methods for testing oils, I was hoping somebody might know how the Polaris VES rates. I've found how Klotz rates using these methods and that was what I was thinking about switching to once my VES oil is gone. I've got a chart of these tests somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

 

http://www.7thgear.net/7thGear/Portals/0/2...oil%20specs.pdf

http://www.7thgear.net/7thGear/Default.aspx?tabid=27

Here's the chart.



- National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) is based in the USA.

- American Petroleum Institute (API) is based in the USA.

- Japanese Automobile Standards Organization (JASO) is based in Japan.

- International Standards Organization (ISO) is based in Europe.

 

Thanks for the info sledhead. I agree with the warmup and break-in but I'm still not sure about the oil. I know it's a controversial topic but Dan might be on to something about crank bearings and crank life using a non-synthetic. From my experience a non-synthetic seems to cling to a surface better, possibly making it better for bearings. But on the other hand a synthetic, a synthetic is slipprier, which makes the rings last longer and the VES valves run cleaner. A slipprier oil could also be better for bearings because there's less friction and wear but might not cling as well.

The AAPI, JASO, ISO are all standarized test methods for testing oils, I was hoping somebody might know how the Polaris VES rates. I've found how Klotz rates using these methods and that was what I was thinking about switching to once my VES oil is gone. I've got a chart of these tests somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.[/b]

In the past I was a firm believer in full synthetics, now my opinion has changed from my own experience with them and I will no longer use synthetics in a 2 stroke snowmobile, I am back to a high quality mineral oil with a great additive package and have had very good results, as far as power valves staying clean, mine were always more crusty with baked on carbon when running full synthetic oils, mineral oil just burns better IMO. Try Legend ZX2SR oil you'll be happy.

 

I have a buddy that says about the same as sledhead800 with the exception of amsoil...hes a fanatic about fogging any motor if put away more than a couple weeks if they run any synthetic oil. I've been running spectro syn-sno synthetic...never fog except when done for the season. None of us have ever had oil related motor failures running amsoil or what ever but do follow pretty much the rest of the advice sledhead800 gives. None of us have ever used ves gold either...funny though....everyone riding a newer polaris swears by it.

 

Buddy of mine and I have identical '08 600RMK's, I ran Blue/synthetic blend since day 1 and he ran Gold since day 1. 3k miles later mine is still running strong, 1600 miles on his and his crank and one piston went south, but was covered under warrantee. He switched to the same oil I've been using. I also get better gas mileage than he does, and I'm the one breaking trail 75% of the time.

 

Who makes Polaris's 2-stroke oils?

 

??? :stirthepot:

 

Hear is a quote from Indydan: After years and year of seeing motors apart the OLD oil stands alone and works better then the new synthetics in sleds and mixes much better with fuel and faster.

 

we use a golden spectro snow 2-cycle an its a really good iol but if u want to spend about 40-50 dollars on a gallon of oil i'd go with Klotz

 

who spends $40-$50 for klotz????

 

who spends $40-$50 for klotz????[/b]

I know guys that buy klotz for less than $30.00 a gallon....but the stuff stinks so bad...like rat poison....the smell just stays in your clothing after a long day and remains there. I'll tell you..i'm sold on spectro syn-sno...works as well or better than anything out there without all the big stink you get from klotz and other oils.

 

polaris red racing oil.

 

polaris red racing oil.[/b]

I think it was discontinued. The only stuff I can find is old clearanced stuff. Anybody know who made that for Polaris? Somebody must know how Polaris's oils rate?

 

I think it was discontinued. The only stuff I can find is old clearanced stuff. Anybody know who made that for Polaris? Somebody must know how Polaris's oils rate?[/b]

my cousin works at polaris and i get it through her. i just ordered a case last thursday. at some dealers they dont have it on the shelves, you have to ask for it at the service counter.

 

so i can use the polaris blue oil for a Liberty 700 VES engine?

 

so i can use the polaris blue oil for a Liberty 700 VES engine?[/b]

Yes it will work. You will probably have to clean the valves a little more often than when using a synthetic though, not really a big deal.

 

I just use the oil that my Dealer told me was the worst oil I could use...... 11,000 miles later with my 03800 ves, absolutlely positvely no issues and my valves stay so clean I just pull them at the end of the season to look at them and check the bellows.

 

And that oil was??

 

Who makes Polaris's 2-stroke oils?[/b]

I think it is "Lube Tech" in Minneapolis.

 

I think it is "Lube Tech" in Minneapolis.[/b]

I heard that one before...lube tech buys the oil stocks and does the blending for them....thought it wasn't so though.

 

And that oil was??[/b]

From reading some of his other posts, I'd say it was/is either Yamalube and/or Citgo Sea & Snow. They are both made by Citgo and have the same MSDS (except for the color I believe)

For the record, I have since switched to Citgo's Sea & Snow. I can get it for about 13.00/gallon.

Doo also has a mineral based oil out too.

 

Wow! Lot of opinions on Earl!

I have a 600 twin with 14,000 miles on it. I have always ran the VES Gold oil in it and have had no problems. I put new rings in it after 9,500 miles becasue my fuel economy had dropped off significantly and also my top end. The new rings brought it back like new. I do warm up my sled, but just a common sense approach. I start the sled and let it warm up about five minutes while I sweep out the garage, reset the GPS, put my helmet on, etc. Then I just ride slow for the first mile or so. I then follow that up with about 200 miles of riding like I stole it! This keeps the combustion chamber clean and the exhaust valves free. Other than a cursory inspection and greasing the skid about every 1000 miles I do all of my sled work in the summer. I ride in the winter with no rope marks on the front bumper.