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Very good info on 800 crank failures

206K views 118 replies 72 participants last post by  Lexuslover 
#1 ·
Alot of you may find this very helpful/useful in understanding your crank/case problems, and how the tough boy kits and those ebay kits are in fact more of a band-aid rather than a solution:

Snowest Topic from Indydan
 
#53 ·
Alot of you may find this very helpful/useful in understanding your crank/case problems, and how the tough boy kits and those ebay kits are in fact more of a band-aid rather than a solution:

Snowest Topic from Indydan[/b]

I used to work at Precision Performance Products & I found that the best thing for a mod or stock 800 is to install a WPS crank case plate under the motor with torque stops on the crank case. I seen many cranks without them & I had mine modified since day 1 & went into the motor last year & I had no crank case ware at all. Usually they with hog out the case where the bearings are in the the case making you have to line bore the case halfs to salvage the crank case.
 
#55 ·
I cant complain. My 02 lasted over 8,000 hard miles before the PTO side connecting rod pin broke. I had it redone with the big PTO bearing and its been fine since. At that time i put new pistons and rings in, the damn base to crankcase gaskets leaked causing the pistons to melt, so have the original pistons and rings back in. They have over 9500 mile on them and it runs great. haha (dont fix it if aint broke)
 
#59 ·
The only place I would send it is to Indy Dan. Nobody else offers the warranty. With the warranty and what you get the price is pretty reasonable IMO. If you wait if it blows it could cost up to $3000, depending on what gets ruined in the process. Really you just have to make the choice whether you'd rather spend the money now wait and see what happens. If you don't have the SS valves, get them now.

You could check the run-out on the crank to see where it's at. Anything under .02 is acceptable I believe. Don't quote me on that though.
 
#60 ·
Just bought a prx0x2 800 has alittle less than 3000 miles. should I have the mod done or just run it and do it if it breaks. If I should do it can any polaris dealer do it, and how much am i looking at for cost, just a rough idea Thanks Mark[/b]
just kind of up to you. Some people have problems, I personally dont know of any with the group I ride with. I hav 6100 miles on my 02 Edge X 800 and crank has never been touched. I ride with 4 other people with 800's and they have never even heard of the problem and all have higher miles than you. Im not worried about it....

and yes, i know, its supposedly a ticking time bomb. I was told that 4000 miles ago
 
#61 ·
My crank went just before 4000 miles this april! 2004 700 prox2 with nothing radical on it.
 
#62 ·
whats the consensus with people who have used the slp torque arm (attached to the front of the motor). Have they seen more or less crank issues than non-users?
 
#63 ·
All you 07 Dragon owners may want to check your run out on your cranks as soon as possible also. (It should be part of your regular maintenance program any way.)
Just checked one with 489 miles (granted, very hard miles) it is out .003.
I pulled the cases apart and the outside Pto bearing has wallowed the case as well as the Mag bearing was starting to chatter a bit.
If your run out is out you need to address the problem asap.
Get the crank trued and indexed.
If needed new cases or even better have your cases machined and line bored.
I recomend using the 08-09 800 Pto single wide bearing instead of the 2 small original bearings.
Part #3514587
Also clutch maintenance is imperative (on any sled for that matter) to longevity of your crank.
Get your clutches balanced! As this is generally an inexpensive service to have done, but well worth it.
We will see how it holds up this year after repairs and the bearing upgrade.
Mark
 
#73 ·
to all concerned.

the new super wide bearing found in the 2009 sleds is not better then the old cranks that were upgraded to the
single narrow and the double row.

However it is different.

The problem with all the different shops out there doing wide bearing kits. If the shops doing the work do not know the difference between the following.

Standard fit bearing
C3 fit bearing-------
C4 fit bearing-------

Many people think that Bearing quality is based on price. Nothing could be farther from the truth then that.

Production numbers are a better guage of price.


Many people think that a C4 is a great bearing because polaris uses them and they generaly cost more then standard or C3.

Not true.

Lets try and keep this simple - In short.

The difference between these 3 bearings - The amount of clearance the balls have to roll inbetween the inner and outter races.

Sandard fit = X ( lets just say tight )
C3 fit = alittle looser
C4 fit = alittle looser yet

The simple explaination is this - The reason Polaris uses a C4 is because it is the looset fitting bearing and allows for the great amount of crankcase error in fit to the main bearing area.

A crank built with C3 bearings that are fit to a case that has been presion fitted is far better then a factory fit C4 crank.


The new super wide bearing has close to C4 fit, and it only has two sets of ball bearings in it.

It has about the same inner bearing area of the old 2000 to 2005 800 big block ( STOCK BEARINGS )

People, do not be fooled by Polaris. On a scale of 1 to 10

if the old 2000/2005 was a 5 the new dragon PTO set-up is 5.5 at best.

Chances are it will take 3 to 4 years of 800 Dragon production to equal the numbers build in one good year of the old big block.

Mark my word, The PTO-end failures are coming.

Until they start machining in a lock ring bearing they will be haunted by PTO-end failure.

The only reason they get by with it as well as they do ( they use a bearing with alot of ball clearance and they over crush it ).


If the quality control slides even alittle bit on the case the PTO-ends will fail just like the old motor.

Dan
 
#74 ·
to all concerned.

the new super wide bearing found in the 2009 sleds is not better then the old cranks that were upgraded to the
single narrow and the double row.

However it is different.

The problem with all the different shops out there doing wide bearing kits. If the shops doing the work do not know the difference between the following.

Standard fit bearing
C3 fit bearing-------
C4 fit bearing-------

Many people think that Bearing quality is based on price. Nothing could be farther from the truth then that.

Production numbers are a better guage of price.
Many people think that a C4 is a great bearing because polaris uses them and they generaly cost more then standard or C3.

Not true.

Lets try and keep this simple - In short.

The difference between these 3 bearings - The amount of clearance the balls have to roll inbetween the inner and outter races.

Sandard fit = X ( lets just say tight )
C3 fit = alittle looser
C4 fit = alittle looser yet

The simple explaination is this - The reason Polaris uses a C4 is because it is the looset fitting bearing and allows for the great amount of crankcase error in fit to the main bearing area.

A crank built with C3 bearings that are fit to a case that has been presion fitted is far better then a factory fit C4 crank.
The new super wide bearing has close to C4 fit, and it only has two sets of ball bearings in it.

It has about the same inner bearing area of the old 2000 to 2005 800 big block ( STOCK BEARINGS )

People, do not be fooled by Polaris. On a scale of 1 to 10

if the old 2000/2005 was a 5 the new dragon PTO set-up is 5.5 at best.

Chances are it will take 3 to 4 years of 800 Dragon production to equal the numbers build in one good year of the old big block.

Mark my word, The PTO-end failures are coming.

Until they start machining in a lock ring bearing they will be haunted by PTO-end failure.

The only reason they get by with it as well as they do ( they use a bearing with alot of ball clearance and they over crush it ).
If the quality control slides even alittle bit on the case the PTO-ends will fail just like the old motor.

Dan[/b]
Awesome info dan, definately something to consider when buying the new 800. These motors could wind up being just like the old 800's as far as mechanical reliability. I own a 07 d7 should I expect a possible crank failure down the road?
 
#76 ·
Indydan,

Have you noticed any difference at all in the PTO bearing failures, in sleds that are run hard, or that sit a lot?

I just purchased a bone stock '05 edge 800 with 550 miles that sat for 2+ years, from a dealer. The original warranty is long gone, but they offer a 30 day "ridable snow" warranty that takes effect from the first ridable snow of the season. They also offered to rape me dry, for an extended warranty.

If it's been sitting for quite a while, as this has, do you think there is any more likelihood that it'll go inside that 30 days? (plus a couple dry runs before there's snow...)

Is there any way to *ahem* encourage this failure if it's going to happen, besides just revving the motor at the red-line? Or mebbe a way to discourage it for the season by adding a little oil to the fuel?

I'm a gearhead, I can redo the motor next summer like I did my 800 triple, but it's not in the budget before I ride this season. (neither is $900 for an extended warranty)
 
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